I mean, let's hope it sticks.
The problem is that he keeps changing his story, so the charges have continuously changed, and he's got plenty of money for lawyers that can try and keep pushing it back with other crackpot schemes.
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Danish Submarine inventor Peter Madsen admits dismembering of Swedish journalist Kim Wall
- Thread starter Keasar
- Start date
The problem is that he keeps changing his story, so the charges have continuously changed, and he's got plenty of money for lawyers that can try and keep pushing it back with other crackpot schemes.
I like to talk about free will in events like these, because as it stands, we put ourself through more suffering than we aught to in times like this. I read an interesting article which had a unique, comforting notion about how our world actually works, and how people should deal with tragedies like this.
In a nutshell, we don't have free will, and because of that, our behavior is basically the result of our current configuration of atoms in our brain. That's literally nothing we have individual control over. So what did the article writer have to say about tragedies like this? Well, let's analyze how people deal with two types of tragedies. In the first example, we have the "Madsen" type events, where people close to this poor woman will probably suffer some degree of mental anguish from thinking about this. How something so evil could even exist. In worst case, it'll haunt their lives basically.
But let's say it was a bear attack. The poor woman was simply hiking on a mountain, and a bear got spooked and killed her. The article writer suggested that while the family definitely would suffer, it's less likely they'll be haunted by lifelong thoughts of bears and suffer because of that. Because right now people believe "bears will be bears", and bears obviously kill if spooked or provoked. You can't blame it for being a bear since it's "just an animal", basically. It's not exactly an uncommon thing to believe.
But here's where things get fuzzy when you introduce free will, or rather take it away. In a very real and physical sense, there's no difference between Madsen and the bear. Both are literally products of their circumstances, and both killed because of how their brains were configured in that moment. There was no choice involved in either case. Yet, somehow, we put more blame on a human committing a horrible act than a bear even though that makes no sense in this context. The article writer suggested that because of this, we put ourselves through more suffering than we need to.
I thought that was thought-provoking. Maybe in the future horrific tragedies like this will have the same emotional impact as a car accident, simply because people believe there's no difference.
So this just got updated, as some of the details of what Madsen is prosecuted for has been released to the public. Madsen is accused of tying Wall up, raping her, beating her and stabbing her before killing her by strangling her or possibly cutting her throat, then dismembering her. He is described as having brought along tools for tying her up, killing her, dismembering her and getting rid of the body parts. Seemingly completely premeditated.
The worst part of this is that Wall obviously suffered before dying. I kind of hoped it was quick. Fucking monster.
Link in swedish.
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/8wBAgr/atalet-mot-madsen-misshandlade-kim-wall-fore-mordet
The worst part of this is that Wall obviously suffered before dying. I kind of hoped it was quick. Fucking monster.
Link in swedish.
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/a/8wBAgr/atalet-mot-madsen-misshandlade-kim-wall-fore-mordet
Prosecution is going for life or a so called custodial sentence (the exact english term may differ) which are the two most severe punishments under Danish law.
The average life sentence in Denmark usually results in 15-17 years of incarceration on average (mind that people die and thus this seems low). I doubt Madsen would ever get any sort of pardon/trial release, though.
Custodial sentences are rarely used, but do not have a specific time limit. Obviously the prosecution has to prove Madsen would be a danger to other people going forward. What he allegedly did to Wall is certainly severe enough to qualify for this.
I ain't a lawyer though, I just read up on it briefly.
The average life sentence in Denmark usually results in 15-17 years of incarceration on average (mind that people die and thus this seems low). I doubt Madsen would ever get any sort of pardon/trial release, though.
Custodial sentences are rarely used, but do not have a specific time limit. Obviously the prosecution has to prove Madsen would be a danger to other people going forward. What he allegedly did to Wall is certainly severe enough to qualify for this.
I ain't a lawyer though, I just read up on it briefly.
Just read through the live stream from court, he actually used straps he bought for his rocket project, in which I was involved in in a previous life.
Also, shrinks concluded he has strong narcissistic and psychopathic tendencies, and is a pathological liar.
Also, shrinks concluded he has strong narcissistic and psychopathic tendencies, and is a pathological liar.
User Warned: Do not advocate violence on the forum.
Just cut him into pieces and throw his ass into the ocean, fucker doesn't deserve a trial.
This trial is going to be a massive mess. They're going to have big problem with "fair process" because the public, media and the judge will (for good reason obviously) be biased against him.
I can see this case take a really really long time before the final verdict is put down.
I can see this case take a really really long time before the final verdict is put down.
Do you have a link to that article? It's an interesting point of view and one I agree with. Choice is an illusion, though a very persistent one.
Can't find it. =/ It did have the bear attack I remembe.r
I get the angle of that article, but the biggest difference is that a human being is capable of conscious thought and reflection, and a bear is not. A human has a moral / ethical compass, an animal has not. If that compass isn't working, it is probably due to mental problems or illness, and/or behaviour caused by various types of trauma. This does not validate any kind of crime, but does paint a better picture of why people do what they do.
Slight detour: It's the same thing with animal rights. I don't believe in the idea of animals having rights. An animal cannot explain or defend it's actions if it does something "bad". I do believe in the obligation we have as mankind to take very good care of animals (and nature).
News just broke. Madsen is sentenced to life for the murder of Kim Wall.
Link in swedish.
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/...s-till-livstids-fangelse-for-mord-pa-kim-wall
Edit: The submarine will be impounded. A life sentence in Denmark means that in 12 years time the punishment might be changed into a timed incarceration.
Good riddance.
Link in swedish.
https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/...s-till-livstids-fangelse-for-mord-pa-kim-wall
Edit: The submarine will be impounded. A life sentence in Denmark means that in 12 years time the punishment might be changed into a timed incarceration.
Good riddance.
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Finally. Throw away the key.
This was in danish court. But in both questions, the answer is no.
This was in danish court. But in both questions, the answer is no.
Oh okay. Well then we got as good of a result as we could hope for. Hope the guy rots.
life sentence in denmark is typically 12-16 years. longest sentence was 32 years, and that person killed four cops.
Oh......wow.
That is a seriously fucked up justice system then. I mean yeah as an American I can hardly talk, but over here when people admit to doing something like that the BEST they can hope for is an ACTUAL life sentence. Some states though with just kill you back.
Probably one of the less fucked up systems in the world. Do some research please.
In particular, the death penalty is banned by the EU so no member country has it. Also I don't believe this is a "life" sentence in the same way as in the US, I believe it's more a 20-ish years plus however long he is deemed a danger to society sentence, similar to what Anders Breivik got.
EDIT: I see the sentencing part has already been covered.
huh? Life sentence is in most cases pretty useless and just an over the top punishment when possible rehabilitation may happen. In those types of cases, the prisoner is normally kept in prison as the sentence gets reevaluated and it can be seen if he shows remorse / has done progress towards becoming a functional part of society and may be able to be reinserted.
Edit: if you want to look into this topic with more detail, there are several interesting articles about "rehabilitation vs punishment" as part of the prison system and how rehabilitation tends to perform better in curving crime.
Scandinavian/European justice system is based on correction abd rehabilitation. Not retribution. Pretty sure there is some extensive research data out there on sentencing and repeat offenders which reveals significant diminishing returns on how harsher punishments inform criminal behavior. So if that's the case, then why spend more resources than needed on incarceration, aside from some arbitrary sense of catharcis?
All European countries (at least those who are in the EU) have banned death penalty for a few decades by now. And there is fewer and fewer countries that actively practive Death Penalty, even when it's still a legal possibility.
So the answer is rather easy i'd say.
So she'll be 42. Except she won't because this sick fucker killed her. Justice.
Alright, let's take a look at Denmarks recidivism rates.
https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/emner/levevilkaar/kriminalitet/tilbagefald-til-kriminalitet
If I calculated right, that means 40% repeat offenders (all men+women). That seems pretty good?
Well then, I sincerely hope that this rapist murderer is an upstanding citizen when they let him go in however many years this 'life sentence' is gonna last.
Snuff isn't real, but it probably means the kind of videos you see out of Mexico cartels.
In alot of cases I am all for rehabilitation over punishment.
In case where a man admits that he chopped an innocent women into pieces?
Yeah not so much.
You do not make laws for the exceptions but rather for the common. That is why you have those safety nets of seeing if the prisoner is fit to go back to society before doing it. And, like the case in Norway, he probably wont pass them and stay in prison for as long as he can (which means until he is 70 or so and pretty much let go as it is easier for his health).
Most Western European Justice systems target Rehabilitation instead of revenge. Most of the time Its literally forbidden by the country's constitution to just lock someone away forever. They will Check in 16 years and If they deem him to still be dangerous, he will have to stay longer. Article 1 of German constituion for example: "The dignity of a person shall bei untouchable".
Not only is it a fundamental human right that prohibits such things as torture or punishment as a form of revenge, Its also Proven to be infinitely more successful in not only deterring crime but also reintergrating criminals Into society, making the Country safer as a whole.
If you want something akin to "eye for an eye" punishment you might wanna give the Sharia a go, maybe that is more in Line with your values than the best working, Most successful justice system in the world? Because thats literally what Denmark's Justice system is.
Lets walk that path. So which crimes get exceptions and which dont? Rape? Is that better or worse than dismemberment? Pedophilia? What If you dismember a criminal? Is that Less Bad? What about robbing an elderly Woman of all her valuables, hurting her badly? Another exception? Drowning a Person, thats pretty Bad, maybe make an exception! What about dealingd cocaine, Killing dozens in the process?
You cant Just make exceptions to the most fundamental right of your entire society.
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While the incarceration might be renegotiated, that doesn't mean he's getting out in 12 years. That punishment will almost certainly be prolonged. He is 47 years now. He will be an old man before he is free.
Also, this.
Also, this.
And he's still lying. Unbelievable.
Considering he had videos of women being dismembered alive, I'd say yes to the first assumption, and go for the first possibility of the second part of your post.
He killed her and chopped her up in to pieces, then threw her into the sea. She didn't have a chance the minute, she boarded that ship.
Just doing her job as a reporter.
I surely wouldn't want that person back on the street no matter the rehabilitation.
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Every country in Europe except one has gotten rid of the death penalty. Its barbaric.
Anyway thankfully his victim has gotten justice. His defense was laughable and he was revealed to be a truly sick individual.
It's barbaric to rid the world of a person that trapped another human being in a submarine and cut them into pieces? but the death penalty is more barbaric? ala injection...okay
Sick isn't apt...
A country's judicial system should not be based on revenge. It should be based on rehabilitation.
I would assume that rehabilitation is there to help drug users and petty thieves, not men that rape and get off on cutting women up.
This isn't like involuntary manslaughter or he was suffering from sort of psychological issue and he acted out of the normal. He purposefully robbed this woman of her life in the most cruel way possible. Why should he enjoy freedom?
This isn't like involuntary manslaughter or he was suffering from sort of psychological issue and he acted out of the normal. He purposefully robbed this woman of her life in the most cruel way possible. Why should he enjoy freedom?