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ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,047
Providence, RI
God how I wish I could have seen Rian Johnson do Episode IX

"You have no place in this story. You come from nothing. You're nothing."

That scene is maybe my favorite in the entire franchise. Kylo is being cruel beyond words but in that truth it's also setting up the idea that she doesn't need to come from a rich history or be related to another character or have a mysterious past to be someone. And in Episode IX, she would show him that she absolutely does have a place in the story because she made her place in the story.

And then Episode IX came out and said, "lol jk, you're a Palpatine."

It's still hard for me to find the words to describe how disappointing it was to see them throw out such an obviously impactful tale.
 

broncobuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,139
It's the nature of these things. The very few exceptions stick closely to existing works (Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, upcoming Dune). And even in those examples, the authors of the original stories didn't have every detail planned out from the jump. Or you get a situation like The Hobbit where the story is extended and padded out and becomes a different beast.

The concept of "oh, at least you need to know the destination" can be tricky in its own right. Look at How I Met Your Mother. It ignores how things can develop in the writers room, on set, in the edit, etc. I'm not a huge Star Wars nerd about the newer stuff but iirc Oscar Isaac was supposed to be killed off in Star Wars 7?
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,945
She realized her grandpa is the ancient sith master and fell in love with a barely redeemed Kylo who dies after her first kiss.

Episode X:

Ohai Darth Rey

200.gif

I swear I still don't understand the purpose of this lightsaber design. What is the benefit?
 

guiloahhhhh

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,727
Rian's episode 9 would have sucked. He seemed to purposely enjoy setting up an impossible task for whoever had the last episode of the trilogy. It had an almost "beginning of the story" ending when Disney blindly wanted these stores to wrap up all in one trilogy.

Fuck the Snyder cut give me the full script for Colin Trevorrow's movie
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
Just because Taika changed the tone of the film doesnt mean he changed the content/plot of the film. The changes Thor goes through are the same whether he does it humorously or not.

And to your second point, they are. The link I provided literally quotes Kevin Feige saying such lol
Watch Age of Ultron, what is set up there, and then watch Ragnarok. Nothing from the set up actually happens.

I and multiple people have told you a bunch of examples that completely contradict this five year script planning out idea but you keep ignoring them.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,295
I think the single most frustrating thing about TROS is that they attempted to follow through on TLJ by having Kylo state one of the most tone deaf fucking things said in any SW movie.

"They sold you to protect you." 🤦‍♂️

On top of having Palpatine say some dumbass shit like "A scavenger girl is no match for the power in me." as if the movie didn't spend half it's damn runtime explaining that she's powerful because of him specifically. This is how to do a proper followthrough:

maJXRNk6t5qurNoz-cHNw28ktuH-ylvVvaaX2pdpbIM.png
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,386
Ibis Island
Yes, I'm sure the hundreds of millions in net profit from every one of the sequel trilogy movies have finally taught them a bitter lesson. The next trilogy will surely not make everything up as it goes like they've been successfully doing for the past four decades.

I don't mind the new trilogy personally, even if there's some stuff I don't like. Just think they might have more of a MCU take on knowing the timeline of where things are gonna go. As I recall they plan that out pretty far out, even if not to the exact point.
 

Ryan.

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
12,876
Highly doubtful that Kevin Feige, one of the most prolific producers of all time, is going to only do one Star Wars film. You don't invite a guy like that into your universe for one film.

The man has over a dozen shows and movies in the works for Marvel just in the next few years alone with no sign of stopping. And we have no idea when his Star Wars movie is in the works as well as he's confirmed he has no hands on any other Star Wars project.
 
Jan 3, 2018
3,404
I don't doubt Daisy was told that Rey wasnt related to anyone special, but I don't believe JJ didn't have some secret lineage in mind, even if he didn't know exactly who it would be.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,295
I swear I still don't understand the purpose of this lightsaber design. What is the benefit?
Easier belt storage.
tumblr_pwuk6pFVpW1w4t7wqo2_540.gifv


This saber and Freddie Prince Jr reprising his role as Kanan really makes me think that someone must've been a big fan of rebels. It's really stupid to have her ignite it with both sides face the same direction though.
 

est1992

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,180
There's a difference between planning out some of the broad strokes — like Thanos killing half of the universe or Tony Stark dying — and meticulously plotting out several movies worth of stories. There's a million things between these movies that don't gel together and have been walked back or handwaved or retconned, even just recently - like Thor's missing eye or taking on the role as king of Asgard being undone, or Thanos taking up the gauntlet in Age of Ultron which the writers of Infinity War ignored and flat out said they didn't know what that was.

Not that any of this is a big deal. But the movies just aren't *that* mapped out in advance. There's a ton of evidence within the movies themselves to the contrary.

And it's called Marvel Studios because it's...Marvel's film production studio lol
But that's the thing, the movies are planned out enough to allow some creativity to remain with the director and their subsection of the universe, but still retain cohesiveness between the films.

The problem as this pertains to the thread, is that Star Wars didn't do this AT ALL. Not even the bare minimum. So when I mentioned that the MCU did do it, I didn't mean the minutiae of every single film, that's impossible to do at any level. But at least the MCU knew where it's stories and character arcs were headed at all times, which is how you maintain consistency.
We literally have directors talking about changes they had to make as a direct result of not knowing the specifics of changes made to other film characters based on the reception of previous movies. Civil War wasn't written with intimate knowledge of what Ryan Coogler would do with Black Panther. Infinity War wasn't made with explicit knowledge of the fact that Thor changed genres due to a middling second film. Guardians wasn't written with the explicit knowledge of what the characters would do in Infinity War. That shit's all written on the fly. What makes it all work is that these people communicate with each other so that at the best of times, no one is contradicting each other, or rather, that any contradictions are outright ignored by the general audience who didn't get their screenwriting degree from reddit.


Dude you're talking about building upon frameworks already presented. Yeah, of course that happens. But the fact remains that they all knew that these movies were getting made in the future and had the story arcs plotted out beforehand. All the minor details like Thor suddenly being funny don't really mean anything in a roadmap.

And honestly, plotting out anything on that level of detail is impossible, like I stated above. The most "roadmap" you can do is what the MCU has done, and it's worked successfully.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,419
'The plan' argument is a bit useless on its own, because even if Snoke remained the villian, or Palpatine was related to Rey from the initial stages, it doesn't mean it would be good. You can say it would have helped but it's still not a very specific argument or observation.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,945
I mean, you could say this about literally every single Star Wars piece of tech. SW is powered on the rule of cool.

Nah, like there are often real world analogs since its basically Space Middle Ages. Lightsabers are swords, with the benefit of being able to cut through anything and deflect blasters. So, a double bladed saber makes sense. A spinning saber makes a certain sense. A saber staff easily makes sense. But, why do you have a double bladed saber that folds into two saber blades that you can't properly hold or ever wield in that form? There is no use for its folded form, why not just have a standard double saber then? Or two lightsabers that you can hook into two a double bladed saber?

EDIT:

Easier belt storage.
tumblr_pwuk6pFVpW1w4t7wqo2_540.gifv


This saber and Freddie Prince Jr reprising his role as Kanan really makes me think that someone must've been a big fan of rebels.

I stand corrected. Of course Rebels came up with this, the same show that came up with helicopter lightsabers. 😂
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,295
Dude you're talking about building upon frameworks already presented. Yeah, of course that happens. But the fact remains that they all knew that these movies were getting made in the future and had the story arcs plotted out beforehand. All the minor details like Thor suddenly being funny don't really mean anything in a roadmap.
Completely changing the writing and personality of a character is not a minor detail.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,557
Changes all the time.

They plan out release dates but the actual story isn't planned out. They greenlit Captain America 3 but had no idea what it was gonna be and during the writing it became Civil War, it could've very easily been something completely different. Thanos wasn't gonna be the big bad until a few movies into phase 1.

The MCU is basically only possible because the main guy in the suit, Feige, is as passionate about the material as the fanbase. So he keeps everything in control somewhat. This is basically what other cinematic universes fail to have. They need someone with equal business sense and passion for the material.
 

est1992

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,180
Watch Age of Ultron, what is set up there, and then watch Ragnarok. Nothing from the set up actually happens.

I and multiple people have told you a bunch of examples that completely contradict this five year script planning out idea but you keep ignoring them.
Age of Ultron is about Infinity War and the stones, and it does happen. He watches his friends die at the hands of someone wielding the infinity stones. I assume you're talking about the dream sequence, right?
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,086
Boba was a jobber. It took 40 years before they finally let him live up to the imagined version of Boba Fett that's been in our heads all this time.

Boba in 6 was comical, but in 5 he successfully tracks Han and delivers him into the Empire's hands, then gets away with it at the end. He is the entire reason the climax happens in Cloud City, and he runs off with Han in carbonite. He's a much more influential character than Phasma ever was. Phasma gets dunked on in her debut film, then gets killed in the next.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I don't mind the new trilogy personally, even if there's some stuff I don't like. Just think they might have more of a MCU take on knowing the timeline of where things are gonna go. As I recall they plan that out pretty far out, even if not to the exact point.

I mean, that would be great, but at this point I'm not sure anyone in charge is particularly interested in making the effort.
 

carlsojo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
33,750
San Francisco
Boba in 6 was comical, but in 5 he successfully tracks Han and delivers him into the Empire's hands, then gets away with it at the end. He is the entire reason the climax happens in Cloud City, and he runs off with Han in carbonite. He's a much more influential character than Phasma ever was. Phasma gets dunked on in her debut film, then gets killed in the next.

This guy said it better than I could. Plus he gets cooler toys.
 

Deleted member 4874

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,113
It'd help if these movies were spaced three years apart. Disney got too greedy with their "prestige" blockbuster.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,295
It doesn't affect the overarching plot, so yeah in that sense it is minor. A movie like Ocean's 11 could swing either more funny or more dramatic but the plot itself doesn't need to change at all.
It absolutely did. You think the plot of Thor Ragnarok would've been the same if they kept the same tone as Thor 2: the film that convinced us to change our entire approach to this character?
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,602
But that's the thing, the movies are planned out enough to allow some creativity to remain with the director and their subsection of the universe, but still retain cohesiveness between the films.

The problem as this pertains to the thread, is that Star Wars didn't do this AT ALL. Not even the bare minimum. So when I mentioned that the MCU did do it, I didn't mean the minutiae of every single film, that's impossible to do at any level. But at least the MCU knew where it's stories and character arcs were headed at all times, which is how you maintain consistency.
The whole premise of this thread is that there was a plan for Rey, and JJ ditched it for TROS. This is also borne out by the script for Duel of the Fates, which confirmed the plan was to carry forward with Rey as a nobody. And now we have Daisy saying that was the case even on TFA.

So for 2.5 movies, there *was* a plan. The plan was that Rey was a nobody. But having a plan doesn't it mean can't be changed or ignored, as obviously TROS did.

JJ gonna JJ

People need to stop letting him write
Larry Kasdan was a good influence on him and Chris Terrio was a terrible one. Terrio needs to be banned from his own job.
 

Paroni

Member
Dec 17, 2020
3,395
I don't really get why the sequel trilogy even was so obsessed with Rey's origin or lack of it. Sure, Prequel trilogy and original trilogy had the whole Skywalker thing, but Star Wars fans were quite used to characters just happening to be force sensitive and powerful in expanded universe video games, books and comics.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,557
They also had people riding horse things attacking a star destroyer.

Whiney fans have a lot to answer for... but sometimes you are just bad at making movies.

Lol.

Imagine if the final battle was entirely in space or some tight corridors or caves.
The 3rd movie is really a sad mess.

For them it is. There's a reason it's called "Marvel Studios". They have teams of people working on these things. (I would know, I work in the industry)

If you don't believe me that's okay, you can just hear it from Feige himself. Read the first sentence in this article.

apnews.com

Marvel closes a decade-long story with 'Avengers: Endgame'

LOS ANGELES (AP) — About five years ago, Marvel Studios president Kevin Feige found himself on a retreat in Palm Springs plotting the future for the wild, experimental "cinematic universe" that he...

I think we are only seeing the full effects of what being fully planned means for the phase 4 movies and shows, now that Feige runs everything and with double the airtime, thanks to Disney+ shows.
I always felt that they had plans on where they wanted to go to, but these are not always hard and fast, and that the directors and scriptwriters have their agency to do what they want. What they excel in is coordination and communication with each other, and an ability to look at what has been done, and writing something based on past movies while still maintaining some kind of consistency.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
The whole premise of this thread is that there was a plan for Rey, and JJ ditched it for TROS.

That's a far stronger claim; all we know is that she didn't know. A lot of actors aren't given out details of their characters in advance, especially twists, and especially if they don't add anything they can work with. In this case the revelation is a surprise to her character as well.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
14,192
It really sucks that Ridley and Boyega were wasted on this shit trilogy. They could have really shined in their own original Star Wars story.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,419
The last REAL Star Wars movie there is.

MV5BMjEwMzMxODIzOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNzg3OTAzMDI@._V1_UY1200_CR90,0,630,1200_AL_.jpg
The first 3 Disney ones were all right, to be honest. I feel Rogue One gets some credit because they didn't need to touch any of the legends/trio of the original trilogy, which I believe was always going to divide.

(Not just cameos like Luke in Mando and Vader in RO)