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No third person. Is this a deal-breaker?

  • Yes

    Votes: 330 14.4%
  • No

    Votes: 1,955 85.6%

  • Total voters
    2,285

Stiler

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
6,659
The only problem I have with this (you said a lot of good things here) is that you underestimate how much game designs often change based on perspective. There are few games I have played that work with both third-person and first-person. I am surprised people actually play Fallout or TES in third-person, since the controls and animations are terrible and janky when played from that perspective. Interacting with objects, the environment and moving around feels awkward compared to first-person. The decision to make Cyberpunk first-person is a deliberate decision. Gaming companies will always control the freedom and extent of how games can be played in the "vanilla" game, not counting mods or other add-ons. I trust that the decision for first-person was the best manner that CD Projekt Red could do the game in, given that their biggest seller is a well-known and respected third-person game. The Witcher would not work in first-person, and the perspective choice was deliberate. It matters in games, and often having both would not be feasible to game design. Same with people talking about having Resident Evil 2 Remake having both a third-person over the shoulder and a fixed camera angle, and believing they don't make a difference. The ENTIRE game design would have to be redesigned and adjusted to encompass both perspectives, and it wouldn't work in that title. I can't imagine the rework to make Cyberpunk work well in third-person.

A huge number of TES people play in third person, that's one of the reasons that Bethesda always has that option in there. Especially all the mods that are centered around making your character look good, all the armor/clothing mods, etc? People like seeing their character in rpgs, even if third person controls a bit more "janky" they still will prefer it.

As far as game design, that's why I said they could compromise, allow third person for exploration (like they do it for the vehicles in Cyberpunk already). Since most games are build with shared rigging between the player characters and npc's that means it shouldn't need a ton of work in terms of animation for this area.

Whenever a player initiates combat/dialogue or whatever the game could then pull you into first person and when it's over put you back into the third person view.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,118
I can understand wanting to see your character/customisation in a RPG but I'm surprised that a huge number of people would play Bethesda games in third person for extended periods of time. The animation and movement feel is absolutely dreadful to me.
 

LabRat

Member
Mar 16, 2018
4,234
seeing how rdr2 and witcher 3 control like, i think its actually a good thing gameplay wise that cdpr goes first person with cyberpunk. only game i can think of that really nailed third person open world controls is mgs 5.

a much bigger dealbreaker for me is going to be if cdpr doesn't nail that moody noir blade runner feeling i want from a cyberpunk game. we haven't seen the game at night yet so i'm still hopeful. the demo felt a little too much like gta to me mood wise.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,976
North Carolina
I can understand wanting to see your character/customisation in a RPG but I'm surprised that a huge number of people would play Bethesda games in third person for extended periods of time. The animation and movement feel is absolutely dreadful to me.
Yeah like its neat to enjoy the visuals of your character but after a little I would rather not look at how terrible the animations are at every moment.
 

Razor Mom

Member
Jan 2, 2018
2,547
United Kingdom
If a game is built for first person, then that's the way it should be played. If it's built for third, then that's the way it should be played. First person gears of war would fucking suck, and third person F.E.A.R would fucking suck.

This game is built for first person. The mechanics will support a first person perspective. Saying "I wish it was third person" is to say "I wish it was a different game".


Perspective is fundamental to the experience. I'm looking forward to this first person game.
 

Deleted member 23381

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,029
I'd much rather a developer pick a PoV and commit to it, whether it's first person or not than have both options and they both suck like fallout and elderscrolls.
 

LegendX48

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,072
Well there will be a photo mode at launch or post launch. When you dress up in real life,can you look at yourself at all times? Only at mirrors or in photos. Well that's what's happening here. The fact that you can customize your character(yourself),doesn't mean you have to have a floating camera over your head to appreciate your clothes. After all this isn't a fashion show.

From the gameplay I've seen,I really started to appreciate the horizontal viewpoint of the character we are playing. It feels that you are actively there in the shootings,in the negotiations,walking the city etc.

I think a huge percent of the no voters will easily come to the yes crowd at launch
Wait, don't you mean yes voters joining the "no" crowd? The question was if no 3rd person was a deal breaker and, for me, no, it's not a deal breaker.

That aside, weird analogy that I feel isn't really applicable o.O
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
The post-mortem on Max Payne talked about how third person games have incorrectly sized rooms because correctly sized ones don't feel right in third person. They typically have to be increased in size by about 50%. This has implications for trying to create crowded, intimate cyberpunk environments.

Think about Perfect Dark's Chicago and its narrow alleyways. Some are basically a meter wide. Sometimes you get areas where the roof is barely above your head. And they have 90 degree turns. Now imagine trying to navigate such alleyways with a third person camera. Imagine trying to engage in combat. It wouldn't work. At least not well. A lot of third person shooters avoid cramped environments for this reason. And I think cramped environments are an integral aspect of a game like this.
 

Joco

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,446
I definitely would have preferred third person due to first person games often giving me headaches/motion sickness. Still going to get it, hopefully it'll be ok.
 

Forsaken82

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,926
This reminds me when Metroid Prime was announced as a FP game. But i trust in CDPR.

There's a big difference between the outcry of a first person perspective in a franchise that was traditionally a side scroller focused on exploration vs a brand new IP that seems to have a heavy focus on gun play.

Also, what I find interesting is I am pretty sure I am seeing people posting in this thread saying it's not a deal breaker that originally posted in that reveal thread saying something along the lines of "Fuck CDPR for not giving me the option, you lost yourself a sale"
 

Davilmar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,265
A huge number of TES people play in third person, that's one of the reasons that Bethesda always has that option in there. Especially all the mods that are centered around making your character look good, all the armor/clothing mods, etc? People like seeing their character in rpgs, even if third person controls a bit more "janky" they still will prefer it.

As far as game design, that's why I said they could compromise, allow third person for exploration (like they do it for the vehicles in Cyberpunk already). Since most games are build with shared rigging between the player characters and npc's that means it shouldn't need a ton of work in terms of animation for this area.

Whenever a player initiates combat/dialogue or whatever the game could then pull you into first person and when it's over put you back into the third person view.

I figured that people used third-person in TES, but never that large of an amount. Guess I leaned something new everyday. I always preferred functionality and game play over aesthetics, but that is interesting to note.

A compromise would likely alienate as much people as simply sticking to one perspective, which is why I sympathize with CD Projekt Red. They will never satisfy anyone with either design, and I find "compromises" to be more bastardized designs that don't do either perspective well. Which to me is arguably worse. Having a constant perspective change for every time you get into a shootout would be annoying to constantly do. Given the large abundance of third-person games for practically every genre, first-person would be a refreshing change. Given how much I warmed to the perspective in RE7 and seeing how well it worked with that game, I can see first-person working. The cover system looks to be in third-person, a la Deus Ex Human Revolution/Mankind Divided, so a limited perspective change could work. Having both rarely works in ways that is satisfying for me.
 

Jadusable

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,020
No, CDPR hasn't done wrong by me yet and TW3 was so fantastic - I'll try anything they'll put out honestly.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
8,629
Deal maker.

These moments are more intense and immersive in first person.

qamFHXX.jpg

MtD4Cy0.jpg

kQDz5Iq.jpg

oCiFbVp.jpg

mGXt1db.jpg
 

irishonion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,221
Not a deal breaker. Just not my preference.

Played fallout 3 all in third person. Couldn't stand fpv.
 

Tokyo_Funk

Banned
Dec 10, 2018
10,053
Lack of TPS is fine, I always read the announcements as FPS Cyberpunk RPG and honestly thats how I always thought CD Projekt intended it to be.
 
Oct 25, 2017
632
First person games usually make me feel sick so I guess it will have to be a pass for me. A real shame because I love the cyberpunk setting
 

ethanradd

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,877
Probably, I don't know how I'll be feeling when the game comes out but at this point it's gone from a guaranteed buy to something I'll probably watch a few YouTube runs then move on. It's a big deal to me, I even play Bethesda games in 3rd person despite their subpar animations. I even tolerated Oblivion's sideways moonwalk animation over playing it in first person.
 

Taker34

QA Tester
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,122
building stone people
I don't think I need to explain choices, QA Tester. Choices is what leads to Bethesda games feeling awful in either mode, because inevitably the game is primarily designed for one of the choices, the second option is poorly integrated and feels bad, and yet at the same time compromises both in time and design have to be made in the primary mode just to allow the secondary mode to minimally integrate into the game.
Charming. I'm not sure how one option compromises the other, you'd need to explain this one. You can clearly feel Bethesda games are designed for first person gameplay, yet the third person view has no negative effect on the other perspective. It takes more time to integrate two options into the game but well that's game development. PC modders will absolutely be able to pull it off after launch - let's pray they don't compromise the first person view by doing that.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
Charming. I'm not sure how one option compromises the other, you'd need to explain this one. You can clearly feel Bethesda games are designed for first person gameplay, yet the third person view has no negative effect on the other perspective. It takes more time to integrate two options into the game but well that's game development. PC modders will absolutely be able to pull it off after launch - let's pray they don't compromise the first person view by doing that.
They aren't making a "Bethesda" game. And you have laid out a problem (one of many) right in your answer. It takes more time, which they may or may not have. Other people in this thread have also laid out other pitfalls with making third person views.

Just because people give Bethesda a pass for their crappy "just bolt it on" attitude, it doesn't mean it works for everyone.

Without any knowledge of how their first person camera is designed, I find it interesting the certainty people have that modders will just bolt on a third person view.
 

Readler

Member
Oct 6, 2018
1,972
Deal maker.

These moments are more intense and immersive in first person.

qamFHXX.jpg

MtD4Cy0.jpg

kQDz5Iq.jpg

oCiFbVp.jpg

mGXt1db.jpg
Honestly, I was a bit "eh" when it was announced, but seeing the gameplay sold me.

I still wish that they'd put one out for free-froaming and stuff, just like RDR2 where they force 3rd person (as it's the way meant to be played) but they offer fpp for the shenanigans.
 

gschmidl

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Dec 3, 2017
122
You have probably tried this already, but I am still going to ask: Is it with every first person game regardless of the FOV you set in the game? I know that when the FOV in 1st person is too narrow, I get motion sick too.

Not all of them but all of them that go fast. Even in The Witness, I had to take breaks.

Recently I was VERY dismayed that the snowflake parallax effect in the otherwise 2D Wandersong gave me the same kind of nausea. This has never happened before.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
Even in The Witness, I had to take breaks.
The witness is a bad example, the first person mode in that is bad. I'm not prone to getting motion sick for most first person games, but the witness does that to me, it was even worse at launch. The default settings in Talos Principle do that to me too.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
Charming. I'm not sure how one option compromises the other, you'd need to explain this one. You can clearly feel Bethesda games are designed for first person gameplay, yet the third person view has no negative effect on the other perspective. It takes more time to integrate two options into the game but well that's game development. PC modders will absolutely be able to pull it off after launch - let's pray they don't compromise the first person view by doing that.
A reply to this further up would be of interest to you.

The post-mortem on Max Payne talked about how third person games have incorrectly sized rooms because correctly sized ones don't feel right in third person. They typically have to be increased in size by about 50%. This has implications for trying to create crowded, intimate cyberpunk environments.

Think about Perfect Dark's Chicago and its narrow alleyways. Some are basically a meter wide. Sometimes you get areas where the roof is barely above your head. And they have 90 degree turns. Now imagine trying to navigate such alleyways with a third person camera. Imagine trying to engage in combat. It wouldn't work. At least not well. A lot of third person shooters avoid cramped environments for this reason. And I think cramped environments are an integral aspect of a game like this.
 

Paul

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,603
I like both perspectives equally so I am fine either way. As long as it ain't top down isometric, I 'm all good.

RDR2 I played third person, but will play PC version first person because it will be much more comfortable at 60fps. For some reason 30 looks much more choppy in first person.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
No, in fact I welcome it. The whole third person view to me is mostly nonsense to begin with. I find it cheating and not immersive at all.
 

Solo Kazama

Banned
Dec 27, 2017
222
Actually its kinda is. I still havent buy Deus Ex: MD because of FPP;

its 50%/50% for me atm. I cant stand FPS via 65TV+pad.

I know they want to do stuff with eyes postprocess or so but just add us the option:/
 

Wink784

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,208
Wait what? Why would it be? Aside from those who are aflicted by motion sickness in first person it's a game design decision and so if the dev decides that is the right perspective for their ideas then of course I'm cool with that. They clearly have the best insight in this matter.
 

Xiao Hu

Chicken Chaser
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,497
The first-person perspective is what made my hype meter go bonkers. I personally enjoy in TES and modern Fallout because they allow me to immerse myself so much due to their camera setting.
 

Son of Sparda

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,607
I think the poll needs a "It's not a deal breaker but I would've preferred a Third Person view" option.
 

TheWordyGuy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,623
All discussion surrounding the first-person or third-person debate gets shut down on CDPR forums. This probably doesn't mean much in the long run but I don't think they're too interested in discussing this, at least not right now anyways.

I registered at CDPR's very first forum a long time ago, and was posting literally years before the release of the very first Witcher game.

Just a few hundred of us formed a very small community of players who were wildly enthusiatuc about the game, which kept getting delayed. When the game finally did release it was clear as day that the game had been pushed out the door unfinished in order to meet the (back then) important Christmas sales period.

A few of us were very vocal about the state of the game. Unfortunately, CDPR, in attempt to control 'bad publicity', started banning many of the people who were its earliest 'fans'. I was in contact with four others via e-mail, and we were all stunned that CDPR had banned us simply for criticizing the state of the game. (BTW, virtually everything we asked for was included in the so-called 'enhanced edition' of the game, which was really just a massive patch, and quite frankly the way the game really should have shipped to begin with).

Obviously this experience soured me on this company. But you saying that CDPR has been 'shutting down conversation' does not surprise me at all.

That's just how CDPR operates. They're hyper political, and hyper controlling. I pretty much despise this developer now.
 

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,032
It's not a deal breaker, but it is disappointing. I'd say I generally prefer third person. :/
 

Deleted member 3183

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,517
Sometimes games are first person... sometimes they're third person. Whatever makes sense for the design and feel of the game. I have no beef one way or the other. If this is what CDPR has decided on and designed the game around, great. I look forward to playing it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,092
Atlanta
not at all. ive never given a shit about perspective, just whatever the devs chose. i never realized anyone else gives a shit either until the e3 thread
 

Stardestroyer

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,819
Great post. For a game like this complaining that there's not a third person option is like complaining that a character action game like Bayonetta doesn't have a first person option. It's incompatible by design.
Well what you said is extremely dumb. developers were the ones who brought up third person. Bayonetta never claim to be first person game at any point in time. Then change to fps. The disappointment is from that promise.

We know for a fact that TPS exist while first person action games really do not exist.

Devs can make whatever they want, but is bad pr, which isn't shocking by now to claim both then change your mind later.

Just to add people do get sick from first person games.


Tl;dr don't promise shit and take it away.

(Was be
 
Last edited:

KaiLeng

Member
Sep 8, 2018
516
Nope, I certainly like to look at the character I create in RPG, and was a tiiiiny bit disappointed during E3 when they said they will only have FPV. But after seeing the gameplay I know it was not a "cost cutting measure" or something, it was clearly a very game design related decision which will be justified considering what type of game it is, and the scope CDprojekt is going for.

I'm all in.
 

Aftermath

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,756
Yup.

It's now just another FPP Cyberpunk game only this one has more RPG elements. Deus Ex came and it was forgotten fast enough it would have to have a long sustaining multiplayer that people give a damn about.

If it was 3rd person it would stand out more, like the Witcher did, I expect there to be hype like no other at first and then the next COD, Overwatch or whatever drops and you will see a sharp decline in players and soon it will be pushed aside until the dlc and Sequels.

Or to be cruel Half Life 3 will come out and the focus will be lost, because Half Life 3 will be the hype of the day to casual FPP players