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Oct 29, 2017
13,502
I would somewhat agree with the bolded but only because the studios are given an extraordinary amount of time and money to polish their products

I really don't think either of the two studios have done anything for me personally that makes me consider them the super special amazing game studios that other people seem to think they are

much prefer the complexities of simulation from stuff like dwarf fortress and the new gameplay functionality from things like VR
Yeah I agree that it is all about them having so many resources. These are the "let's see what a million dollars per scene looks like" type of entertainment. They are blockbusters and crowd pleasers.

Mostly what I can't agree with is the idea that fans are happy regardless of what they make. Even the comment that started the conversation mentions "downgrades" twice like that's what makes a game good or bad.
 

aspiegamer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,460
ZzzzzzZzzzZzz...
Communities like Era feed into why Metacritic has such a big influence.
Yeah no. We have metacritic threads for popcorn and drama... not for any actual accolades, wagers, or bonuses. Superficial bragging rights at most. In that regard, the actual score is meaningless. Any member who tries to seriously argue a game's worth or comparative quality based on a meta score is laughed at. We're better than much of the gaming internet in that regard.
 

Akronis

Prophet of Regret - Lizard Daddy
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,451
Yeah I agree that it is all about them having so many resources. These are the "let's see what a million dollars per scene looks like" type of entertainment. They are blockbusters and crowd pleasers.

Mostly what I can't agree with is the idea that fans are happy regardless of what they make. Even the comment that started the conversation mentions "downgrades" twice.

Yes, the fans are always going to be the hardest to please. The difference is that video game publications are MUCH closer to marketing arms for some high-profile games like Cyberpunk 2077, so you can be assured that the scores will be inflated by hype alone.
 

UrbanDandy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,448
Claiming to get a high metacritic number after reports of excessive overtime crunch is a bad decision.
 

big_z

Member
Nov 2, 2017
7,797
They must really want to hit the holiday season. I would just delay it into early 2021, make sure it runs well on everything and maybe have a proper next gen version ready.

It's going to sell regardless and with Witcher 3 it was so janky at launch a lot of people waited for patches. Don't make people wait again, get the good version out from the start.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,428
FIN
I don't find that significantly controversial statement, to try and aim high with review score average. Wanting your game to review well and be well received seems pretty normal.

Claiming to get a high metacritic number after reports of excessive overtime crunch is a bad decision.

Since when it has affected critic scores in any way how cruel and soul killing crunch game went though?
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,353
The reference to MC is just them saying they continue to focus on producing a game of the highest quality, and that they'd rather take whatever time is needed to make that goal, than make an arbitrary release date and disappoint end users. The fact that this quote begins with "regarding Metracritic expectations...", suggests they were asked specifically about the anticipated MC score on that conference call.

I frankly wish studios would ignore and downplay MC more, because it's becoming utter poison for the industry and was only ever a fairly blurry indicator of a game's quality in the first place (which is part of the reason lots of review sites are literally abandoning scores), but the reality is what it is right now.
 

packy17

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,901
Studio delays game to make sure people have an enjoyable time playing it

Wow, what a story
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,353
Yeah no. We have metacritic threads for popcorn and drama... not for any actual accolades, wagers, or bonuses. Superficial bragging rights at most. In that regard, the actual score is meaningless. Any member who tries to seriously argue a game's worth or comparative quality based on a meta score is laughed at. We're better than much of the gaming internet in that regard.

This place is better on aggregate than the average squabbling fanboys on Reddit or something, but I wouldn't go any further than that. I absolutely see people around here all the time, hanging by how many "90+" Metacritic games a platform or studio has.

"Supericial bragging rights" is all an enthusiast forum can convey in the first place.
 

Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,207
Dark Space
Yeah no. We have metacritic threads for popcorn and drama... not for any actual accolades, wagers, or bonuses. Superficial bragging rights at most. In that regard, the actual score is meaningless. Any member who tries to seriously argue a game's worth or comparative quality based on a meta score is laughed at. We're better than much of the gaming internet in that regard.
Yeah, no, not really.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
8,633
The reference to MC is just them saying they continue to focus on producing a game of the highest quality, and that they'd rather take whatever time is needed to make that goal, than make an arbitrary release date and disappoint end users. The fact that this quote begins with "regarding Metracritic expectations...", suggests they were asked specifically about the anticipated MC score on that conference call.

I frankly wish studios would ignore and downplay MC more, because it's becoming utter poison for the industry and was only ever a fairly blurry indicator of a game's quality in the first place (which is part of the reason lots of review sites are literally abandoning scores), but the reality is what it is right now.
I'm surprised no one bothered to discuss this point (apologies if I missed this). Here's the full question that was asked:

Q4: Thank you and good evening everyone. My first question is: can you disclose anything in terms of the level of preorders for the game, either on PC or somewhere else? Does the delay change anything in terms of your unit expectations? My second question is: given your comments regarding the quality of the game, I'm curious what sort of Metacritic score would you be disappointed with. And my third question: in order to boost sales in December, would you consider offering a bit more aggressive discounts? Is there a risk that the average selling price is a bit lower than what people would imagine? Thank you.
 

baconcow

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,814
I think scores aren't a good measure for games and that's why people are getting at they are extremely subjective vs a more simple scale like " buy wait for sale etc.. " it's way more objective that way.

wanting a game to score a 90 < making a game that should be bought day 1
I do agree that I don't find them the best metric for a game's worth. For the average gamer, I still feel that they are the easiest and quickest metric to consume (they were for me, for a long time). Personally, I prefer the OT threads here, Reddit impressions, and YouTube videos.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
I do agree that I don't find them the best metric for a game's worth. For the average gamer, I still feel that they are the easiest and quickest metric to consume (they were for me, for a long time). Personally, I prefer the OT threads here, Reddit impressions, and YouTube videos.
Yeah scores have no uniform scale across how everyone thinks of a games score unless the game is universally good or universally bad everything else kind of gets way harshly treated with number scores.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,954
Chances are more that it will be an 85-90 game than 90+ given CDPR's history, but we'll see.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,155
Chances are more that it will be an 85-90 game than 90+ given CDPR's history, but we'll see.
giphy.gif
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,226
Yeah no. We have metacritic threads for popcorn and drama... not for any actual accolades, wagers, or bonuses. Superficial bragging rights at most. In that regard, the actual score is meaningless. Any member who tries to seriously argue a game's worth or comparative quality based on a meta score is laughed at. We're better than much of the gaming internet in that regard.

A lot of people here use Metacritic as some kind of proof that whatever game they are currently trying to champion is as good as they claim it is. Mostly agree with your closing sentiment, but it still happens too much.
 

lowkeyframe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
100
Once gaming outlets stop providing scores in their game reviews, Metacritic won't hold the same weighting as it currently does.
Unfortunately, many AAA game studios use MC as a quantifiable measure of success now.
Scores are a part of the playtest feedback loop throughout production which provides expectations for MC Scores. They understand the power a review score has when it comes to consumers.

The difference between a 7.5 and an 8 in the eyes of a consumer is sadly the difference between a purchase and a "wait for sale" despite the actual .5 difference could be something subjective to the reviewer that the consumer may not give two craps about.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,125
Once gaming outlets stop providing scores in their game reviews, Metacritic won't hold the same weighting as it currently does.
Unfortunately, many AAA game studios use MC as a quantifiable measure of success now.
Studios would still evaluate reviews even if they did not have scores.

Metacritic hate is just silly.
 

lowkeyframe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
100
Studios would still evaluate reviews even if they did not have scores.

Metacritic hate is just silly.
Yeah absolutely it would be evaluated without scores. It's part of the post mortem process.
Considering CDPR has enforced even more crunch for staff with the sole purpose of getting a slightly improved Metacritic score is the problem here.
3 weeks is an insanely small window of time to improve the overall quality of a game. Maybe you can fix a few critical bugs but that's about it.
 
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Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,125
Yeah absolutely it would be evaluated without scores. It's part of the post mortem process.
Considering CDPR has enforced even more crunch for staff with the sole purpose of getting a slightly improved Metacritic score is the problem here.
3 weeks is a insanely small window of time to improve the overall quality of a game. Maybe you can fix a few critical bugs but that's about it.
Wanting a better Metacritic score is literally the same thing as wanting the game to be better.

If there is a bug in the game that is bad enough it would lower review scores, then maybe it is worth waiting a couple weeks to fix the bug. After all, aren't gamers always whining about how patches have become the norm?

I have no love for CDPR to be clear. I think Witcher 3 is not very good and I'm not going to play Cyberpunk. But I also have no love for gamers with boring takes on review scores.
 

lowkeyframe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
100
Wanting a better Metacritic score is literally the same thing as wanting the game to be better.

If there is a bug in the game that is bad enough it would lower review scores, then maybe it is worth waiting a couple weeks to fix the bug. After all, aren't gamers always whining about how patches have become the norm?

I have no love for CDPR to be clear. I think Witcher 3 is not very good and I'm not going to play Cyberpunk. But I also have no love for gamers with boring takes on review scores.
I think you're missing the point of my posts but I'm not gonna spend more time here to argue that.
As a developer in the industry, I've observed the impact MC has had within the industry so if you think I'm just a gamer with a boring take on review scores, I'll let you think that. Cheers.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,125
I think you're missing the point of my posts but I'm not gonna spend more time here to argue that.
As a developer in the industry, I've observed the impact MC has had within the industry so if you think I'm just a gamer with a boring take on review scores, I'll let you think that. Cheers.
I'm not intending to be antagonistic to you personally. The "scores are bad" thing comes from all sorts of people here and it is tiring. Human nature is to sort. We'll never stop ranking things. Whether Metacritic does it or a different site (such as ResetERA!) does it.
 

CRIMSON-XIII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,173
Chicago, IL
I hope it crashes and burns. But probably not happening with all the hype beasts and review culture.
At this point, a lot of folks view this game as a GTA-like game. Or a GTA-killer. I realize it is an rpg, and has rpg systems. But I've seen a lot of folks, outside and on the internet mention how they want this as their gta experience. A new game where you roam, get missions and do stuff. It just so happens that you have dialogue choices here and some enemies will be sponges because they are "leveled" higher than you. I don't see it selling bad at all. Like, it will sell into 10 million I think. sometimes soon.
 

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,041
It's not like there's a specific checklist of requirements to be able hit 90.

All you can do is make the narrative good, the world interesting, and the gameplay polished.

That being said, after releasing a statement like that- do you think people wouldn't give it a 9/10?
 

Conal

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,868
Do we know if bonuses are linked to MC score in this case?

I remember that being 'a thing' a few years ago.
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
This place is better on aggregate than the average squabbling fanboys on Reddit or something, but I wouldn't go any further than that. I absolutely see people around here all the time, hanging by how many "90+" Metacritic games a platform or studio has.

"Supericial bragging rights" is all an enthusiast forum can convey in the first place.
Remember though that metacritic only matters when people like the game.

If it's a game that people don't like then metacritic doesn't matter.

Schrodingers Metacritic Score.
 

criteriondog

I like the chili style
Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,127
How often do games have influencers, sending merch/chairs to influencers pre-release? Like, the game could not be that great, and there are influencers already? I don't mean review bonuses when they get the game, but like full on merch months before the game is out? It seems odd.

I guess that's where I'm confused. Like influencers being more than a fan and seemingly to defend most/anything from CDPR even defending the intense crunch, etc.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,428
FIN
How often do games have influencers, sending merch/chairs to influencers pre-release? Like, the game could not be that great, and there are influencers already? I don't mean review bonuses when they get the game, but like full on merch months before the game is out? It seems odd.

I guess that's where I'm confused. Like influencers being more than a fan and seemingly to defend most/anything from CDPR even defending the intense crunch, etc.

It happens, especially closer to release. Streamers etc. get special designed swag, swag collections etc.
 

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
They can keep polishing it well into next year. This game will have legs, just get it right from the start.
 

Milennia

Prophet of Truth - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,254
I saw someone mention at one point that Ubisoft targets 85 MC ratings or around that region at least.
It kinda makes sense, obviously don't think CDPR will have any trouble whatsoever after this insane dev cycle and history.
 

Matty H

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,107
It's not Metacritic that is important, it's what the number represents. A 90+ Metacritic represents near universal acclaim and a game that people overwhelmingly love.
 
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