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deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,494
Cyberpunk 2077
Kallie Plagge at Gamespot:
The ads are one of many, many aesthetic choices in Cyberpunk 2077 that are grating with no real point. There's one ad in particular that was the topic of much discussion pre-release; it features a feminine person with a giant, exaggerated, veiny erection in their leotard and advertises a drink called Chromanticore with the tagline "mix it up." It is everywhere. And while the "purpose" of it may be to show what a sex-obsessed, superficial, exploitative place Night City is, there's nothing in the main story or any of the side quests I did that gives it even that much context--I found just one message on one of the many computers I logged into that commented on how low-brow Night City culture is. The result is that there's a fetishization of trans people at every turn, in a game with only one very minor trans character (that I found, at least) and no way to play as an authentically trans character yourself.

I found and read tons of text logs, scoured people's private messages, listened to radio and TV programs and random NPC conversations, and I struggled to find justifications for many of Cyberpunk's more questionable and superficial worldbuilding choices. It's a world where megacorporations rule people's lives, where inequality runs rampant, and where violence is a fact of life, but I found very little in the main story, side quests, or environment that explores any of these topics. It's a tough world and a hard one to exist in, by design; with no apparent purpose and context to that experience, all you're left with is the unpleasantness.

...

There's so much to cover that I can't possibly touch on everything, but my experience is that there are aspects of the game that feel lost in translation, invoking cultures that aren't adequately explored or contextualized. Characters in one side quest use the word "ofrenda" as if it means "funeral" when it's actually a particular kind of altar primarily for Day of the Dead--it's unclear to me if this is a translation issue or an overall misunderstanding of Mexican customs, since you do put together an altar during the event that's being called "the ofrenda." As another example, you can go to a clothing store in Japantown and buy "yukata" that are just wrap shirts bearing only the slightest resemblance to real yukata. It's not that Cyberpunk always gets everything wrong in its incorporation of a variety of cultures and backgrounds but that the world is so big and unruly that I never knew what I would find around any corner or understand what the intent behind it was--I just grew to accept that whatever I did find, at least in terms of setting and worldbuilding, would likely be superficial.
Carolyn Petite at Polygon:
For elements like the inescapable dehumanization of trans people on imagery throughout the city to function as any kind of critique of transphobia, the game itself would need to create tension around those images by showing us humanized trans people navigating that world. But it doesn't. The result is a game in which transphobic players (of which there will be many) can just laugh at us by using the character creator to generate models they consider worthy of mockery and derision and by gagging at the Chromanticure ads they see everywhere, or perhaps by fetishizing the model while continuing to see trans people as objects of desire but not as full human beings. Meanwhile, we trans players are left wanting in its world for depictions that humanize us.

Gene Park at The Washington Post:
While "The Witcher" was based on a novel series that pulled mythological inspiration from CDPR's native land of Poland, "Cyberpunk" is a vision of a much broader, more diverse world, one that CDPR seems less equipped to depict. That's not to say that this story and its characters aren't engaging, but that it relies on giving virtual life to caricatures drawn by the original board game. A Latino character leans too heavily on overused Spanish swear words in normal conversation. Sex workers are given little nuance to their characters beyond the parameters of their chosen profession.

And for years, trans activists have shone a light on why its depiction and seemingly willful ignorance on gender can create damage for a marginalized community, even within the game's context of capitalism objectifying humanity for gain. In its narrative, CDPR chose adherence to a known and problematic formula over upending the cyberpunk genre. This might be an insurmountable hurdle for some — and understandably so.

Rob Zacny at Waypoint:
Cyberpunk 2077 happily embraces the tropes of 80s cyberpunk, where ethnic stereotypes were often deployed to provide an air of unearned worldly sophistication. So the Japanese characters who work for Arasaka speak the language of samurai movies: it's all honor, duty, and cherry blossoms despite the fact that Arasaka is a cynical and self-interested multinational. The game nods to some of the complications of representation: the game is at pains to indicate that the tech-savvy Voodoo Boys gang are not actually practitioners or believers in voodoo, but they are proud members of a Haitian diaspora that are building a Black nationalist movement in their quarter of Night City who adopt the symbols of voodoo as an expression of heritage. Which is all well and good but then you realize that the only Haitian dudes you've met in this whole game are Voodoo Boys and you're right back at a setting where, functionally, ethnicity is identity. And that identity frequently comes with a costume and an occupation.

More complicated is how Cyberpunk 2077 approaches sex and sex work, which says a lot about the places where its imagination is detailed and specific, versus where it is vague and uncommitted. A lot of Cyberpunk 2077's story hinges on sex workers and the types of sex work and hierarchies that exist in this world. ... It's dark stuff, but it's fairly well-handled. Cyberpunk 2077 approaches sexual violence like a lot of detective fiction approaches it, with a fair amount of sensitivity but also an uncomfortable level of interest that flirts with being fetishisizing.

...

What's profoundly strange is that, here in the final game, there is scarcely any portrayal or interrogation of how this society's understanding of gender and the human body have changed. The marketing-driven discussion around Cyberpunk for the last few years has often centered on CD Projekt Red's transphobic "edginess" and its misbegotten philosophizing about how body modification and augmentation come at a cost to one's humanity. This is a small mercy: the game at least never sinks to the lows promised by some of the terrible art that has been shown over the past few years (and which still remains in the game). But it also helps make Cyberpunk a game where race, gender, and transhumanism are reduced to background set decoration in otherwise familiar stories.

Metacritic: think for yourself and engage critically with your entertainment instead of caring about an arbitrary aggregate score for once in your life

Please share any other reviews or criticism more broadly that actually mention the game's transphobia, racism, or other harmful content such as these. And particularly those written by someone who this content personally affects. No others will be included.

I would encourage you to please read the full reviews and not just rely on these excerpts. I did my best to select relevant quotes, but they are part of broader points, both positive and negative. I do not want them to stay separated from the context they were written in, especially in cases where I had to cut down sections.

EDIT:

Ok, I kinda feel like a bluff got called far quicker than I expected it to. So I'm going to say again what I said elsewhere.

To be clear, there should be no review thread for this game. Both for the specifics surrounding this game, and because personally I feel the entire point of review threads needs to be reworked across the board because they inherently encourage some of the worst parts of this site's culture. That would only be far worse in this case, where nobody should be celebrating and speculating about a lack of criticism of the game.

But if there really needs to be a review thread, this is my barebones suggestion for what the thread should be. And along those lines, to whatever degree I have a say in it, I am 100% fine with this thread being locked instead if others think the thread about CDPR's transphobia is where discussion of this criticism should remain. I don't want anyone who has already dealt with so much shit over this game to feel I'm enabling that further. But only if it's for that reason, so that less Cyberpunk threads are made on this site. Not because you want to talk about the game uncritically.

(Also, for the record - I didn't come up with this title, it was a mod edit. Feel free to suggest alternatives.)
 
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Meg Cherry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,268
Seattle, WA
It seems like a bad policy to state that only critical reviews of a game can be discussed.

(Edit - This post was made while the thread was titled merely "Cyberpunk 2077 Reviews", and was the only unlocked review thread. Considering the new title, I have no further qualms. Keeping the post up for record.)
 
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Transistor

Vodka martini, dirty, with Tito's please
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,127
Washington, D.C.
Official Staff Communication
This thread is for reviews that bring attention to the transphobia by CDPR and CP2077. This is not a hype thread and unrelated reviews should not be posted
 

RulkezX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,342
I thought staff were re-evaluating how threads were going to be handled ? Is that now complete ?
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,942
Jeff gerstman mentioned it. He said it is there but the game doesn't really even talk about it or mention the trans stuff instead f just posters to be edgy
 

Kaeden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,899
US
Official Staff Communication
This thread is for reviews that bring attention to the transphobia by CDPR and CP2077. This is not a hype thread and unrelated reviews should not be posted
Wait, I thought we had a sticky for that. Is every Cyberpunk related thread going to be about this or will the staff actually allow threads on their own to ever exist?
 

HiLife

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
39,623
All I'm gonna say any bigoted content should keep this shit from being a 10, and good on reviewers who address it.
 

RulkezX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,342
it is for reviews that highlight a concern that i can get behind. As two review threads could be needed to sift through the likely hundreds of reviews.

This in the only review thread. The other was closed as staff stated they were in the process of evaluating how Cyberpunk threads were going to be handled going forward. I guess this thread indicates that is now complete and this thread would seem to indicate forum policy.
 

Rover_

Member
Jun 2, 2020
5,189
this is a great thread! can't wait to read and take in some reviews tackling the issues, specially if are written by trans people or/and someone hurt by CDPR actions. i'm especially eager for Samantha Greer
 

purseowner

From the mirror universe
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,444
UK
Thank you deepFlaw , and thank you mods for allowing this thread.

Perhaps the title should be edited to encompass the racism, misogyny, homophobia, and appropriation that has also been discussed in these reviews. I see you've quoted extracts about those aspects too.
 

Azai

Member
Jun 10, 2020
3,959
It seems like a bad policy to state that only critical reviews of a game can be discussed.

(Edit - This post was made while the thread was titled merely "Cyberpunk 2077 Reviews", and was the only unlocked review thread. Considering the new title, I have no further qualms. Keeping the post up for record.)

seems weird for sure. I get that his thread makes sense but closing all other threads seems weird.
can see this one turning into a general review thread since you cant discuss them anywhere here atm.
 

wars

Member
Apr 26, 2020
1,208
Lisbon,Portugal
As expected almost no one will care about this issues, especially since CDPR is one of the sweethearts of the industry for many reviewers and gamers.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,510
I'm super glad that at least some of these actually stepped up to the plate here to tackle this. Gamespot was a pleasant surprise.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
A 7.0 score from Gamespot is pretty damning. A title with these kinds of production values will usually get 8+ based on looks and narrative aspirations alone.

For all the bugs and jank that Bethesda games have, they still gave Fallout 4 a 9/10.
 

bbq of doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
Gene Park mentioned it in his review as well:

And for years, trans activists have shone a light on why its depiction and seemingly willful ignorance on gender can create damage for a marginalized community, even within the game's context of capitalism objectifying humanity for gain. In its narrative, CDPR chose adherence to a known and problematic formula over upending the cyberpunk genre. This might be an insurmountable hurdle for some — and understandably so.

 

Fugu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,730
I see stuff like this and all I can think to myself is that I really hope these people are adequately prepared for the shitstorm that will almost invariably rain upon them.

This isn't to say reviewers shouldn't bring this stuff up. On the contrary: I think it's very brave of them to do so, and on top of being apt/relevant social commentary it's also just good games journalism. I just hope they don't end up paying for it.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,510
seems weird for sure. I get that his thread makes sense but closing all other threads seems weird.
can see this one turning into a general review thread since you cant discuss them anywhere here atm.
The other thread had endless posts that were nothing but driveby "HYPE!" or "so much for the forum drama, heh."
 

Transistor

Vodka martini, dirty, with Tito's please
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,127
Washington, D.C.
Yes, staff is still re-evaluating Cyberpunk 2077 threads. However, as these reviewers go into an issue of great importance with their review, this thread was chosen to remain open to bring more attention it. When and if more Cyberpunk 2077 threads are opened, we will make an announcement.
 

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,100
Brazil
Not surprised by those takes. The company has never been known for tackling topics such as racism and homophobia in a thoughtful manner.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,107
Providence, RI
It's worth noting that some of the most critical reviews are from outlets that do not give scores and will not be counted in the Metacritic score.

Polygon's amazing write-up is one of those.
 

zaxil456

Member
Aug 4, 2020
1,562
These are the only reviews worth reading to be honest. All the others are just buying into the hype from what I've seen.
 

Apollo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,090
I'm really glad Carolyn Petit mentioned how people are gonna use the character creator. That's been easily my biggest concern with the whole fiasco- CDPR's attempts at character creation inclusivity are half baked such that, while trans users may not be able to make a character that we feel represents us, have everything they need to make a character they can either laugh at or get off to. Or both. Which IMO makes it a net negative. I'd rather just not know what kind of junk my character has at that point.

Metacritic: think for yourself and engage critically with your entertainment instead of caring about an arbitrary aggregate score for once in your life

Chef's kiss
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
This is one area that I thought Cyberpunk could handle, even via side missions when we first knew about the reveal. Pretty disappointed it isn't.
 

Donepalace

Member
Mar 16, 2019
2,626
A 7.0 score from Gamespot is pretty damning. A title with these kinds of production values will usually get 8+ based on looks and narrative aspirations alone.
Not really GameStop is known for being a harsh one and dropping lower scores than almost everyone else I would have put good money on that score from them still I'm sure it brings them more traffic and clicks putting down a score like that it's all BS these days if you ask me
 

SweetNicole

The Old Guard
Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,542
ZAfmHVY.gif
 

ExoExplorer

Member
Jan 3, 2019
1,245
New York City
I'm glad outlets are taking a critical look at this. I worried that they would be swept up in the hype culture around this game. It's insane looking at it as someone who didn't know of this game until that E3 with Keanu Reeves. The handwaving, the justifying of CDPR's edgy, even offensive marketing, and finally the disturbing content in the game itself. No product is worth the amount of glorification I've seen Cyberpunk get.
 
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