Cyberpunk 2077 |OT| Welcome to Night City (READ THE OP BEFORE YOU POST)

[Transistor]

Epileptic PSA: There are reports that animations and flashing lights in this game can cause seizures. Read this article for more information


Why is there controversy surrounding CD Projekt Red and Cyberpunk 2077?

CD Projekt Red has a history of transphobia. This is well documented at this point and not a matter of debate. Due to this context there is particular concern about transphobic or insensitive content in Cyberpunk 2077 itself, such as the decision to tie gender to voice in the character creator, and trans fetishization in illustrations in the game—and these are just examples from prerelease footage. Additionally, there have been concerns about racist imagery and stereotyping. This article goes into depth about some of these issues.


What incidents of transphobia have occurred surrounding the game and the company, and why are they hurtful?

This list will be updated over time as more examples come to light, especially as the game releases and more content is uncovered. If you wish to have something added to this list, please send me a DM and get my attention.

• On August 20th 2018, the official Cyberpunk 2077 made a "Did you just assume their gender?!" tweet in response to another twitter user. This joke is transphobic in that it stereotypes transgender people as constantly being outraged. This stereotype is used to downplay real and valid concerns that transgender people have, and is considered extremely offensive. In response, the official account made an extremely generic apology. There was no acknowledgement of why the issue was offensive, acknowledgement of the groups that had been offended, or reassurance that this would not happen again.
• On October 22nd, GOG.COM a subsidiary of CD Projket, used the #WontBeErased hashtag that was trending on Twitter, and made joke of it in order to advertise their own platform. This hashtag was in response to the Trump administration trying to redefine gender and erase the legal existence of transgender folks. While GOG did fire the person in question, said person later went on to join an alt-right website. You can read more about this incident here.
• Cyberpunk 2077 itself is a dystopian first person RPG, which means there are advertisements within the game itself. One of the most controversial aspects of the game exists around the in-universe advertisement for a drink called Chromanticore. This advertisement depicts an offensive, fetishized woman, with glowing male genitalia in full view. To say there are multiple things wrong with this an understatement, but the biggest issue is that it makes a mockery of transgender folks, by portraying them as a spectacle, rather than as human beings.
  • Chromanticore has also been the source of controversy even outside of the game. In the official cosplay contest hosted by CDPR, one of the finalists was the highly fetishized woman from the advertisement, portrayed by a cisgender woman. Once again, this makes a mockery of transgender folks, and their fight to be respected as human beings. To make this scenario worse, the cisgender woman in question has straight up treated the woman in the advertisement as a joke. A more detailed post regarding the issues with the cosplay has been compiled here.
• Another concern with the game is the character creator, which has made the decision to tie the voice used by the player character to the pronouns selected during creation. One of the most common forms of discrimination that transgender folks face are expectations and biases regarding their voices. Additionally, by tying voice and pronouns together, they have created an uncomfortable atmosphere for non-binary and gender-fluid people, as they can no longer create a character that accurately represents them.
  • Compounding the issue is the fact that the character creator lets you pick your genitalia. This allows for transphobes to create avatars that can be used to once again make a mocker of transgender people. To make matters worse, CDPR have openly made some terrible, transphobic "jokes" on their own Twitter account about this feature.

Why is ResetEra allowing an official thread for this game?

There has been a lot of discussion about whether there should even be an official thread for Cyberpunk 2077, and many points of view were considered for this decision. Ultimately, a thread like this can serve as a platform for minority concerns to be aired and discussed respectfully, and given appropriate attention. We've also heard from minority members, including some trans members, who have asked for a space where they can talk about the game without needing to worry about trolling and bigoted posting. We expect all posters in the thread to extend the consideration and empathy to give them that space. We will be moderating as strictly as necessary to make sure they do.


What can I do to help fight transphobia?

Transphobia exists in many aspects of our lives. From casual discrimination such as the continuous misuse of a person's preferred pronouns, to more serious ramifications such as housing being denied, legal rights being taken away, and being discriminated in the legal system. Every trans person either has experienced transphobia in their lives, or will experience transphobia at some point.

Moreover, transphobia is a systematic issue that is present in every level of our society. Politicians fight to take away our rights. Celebrities use coded language and religious justifications, if not outright hostility, in order to continue to deny our existence. Media continues to portray us as the butt of a joke, or acts like we're something to be fascinated by, rather than treated with respect.

Actions speak louder than words: Become active in your local politics, donate to transgender causes, stand up for these issues wherever they arise, and if you know transgender people in your life be there for them and support them.


Here are some pro-trans organizations around the world where you can make a donation and show your support

• For those of you in the US, The Trevor Project is one of the leading LGBT organizations. They are dedicated to crisis intervention and suicide prevention for people who are in need of support, love, and care.
• For those of you in the UK, Mermaids is dedicated to the support of transgender, non-binary, and gender-diverse children, young adults, and their families. They have been around since 1995, and have been one of the most vocal voices speaking out against transphobia in the UK, including showing the dangers that transphobia imposes upon our youth.
• If you would like to donate to CDPR's native country of Poland, you can find the Trans-Fuzja Foundation website here. The Trans-Fuzja Foundation has been around since 2008, and is dedicated to the support of transgender people in Poland in many aspects of life and society, including politics.

We are your friends. We are your family members. We're your coworkers. We're the people you meet on the street. We're the essential workers who keep society running in a pandemic. We're everywhere. We're not some sort of freak or joke, and we're not going away.

I want to give major thanks to Uzzy for lending her talent, time, and effort in putting together graphics and material for this official thread. Without her, this would not have been possible on such short notice. I would also like to give a shout out and thanks to Kyuuji for allowing me to use images and links from her own thread for this posts.

 

[cHinzo]

So…reinstalled this after…well, launch day when I just gave up.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What can I expect after all these patches?
I'd like to be in the 50-60fps range for GSYNC to help me out.
@1440p btw on a Ryzen 1700x, 16GB RAM, 1070 Ti, SSD.
Possible?
Any recent performance guides/tips?
Thanks.

Click to shrink...

Stick to 1080p if u want to hit that 60 fps. I didn't even get 60 fps on my 3070 RTX at 1440p. Had to upgrade to a 3080 to hit it.

 

[john385]

Stick to 1080p if u want to hit that 60 fps. I didn't even get 60 fps on my 3070 RTX at 1440p. Had to upgrade to a 3080 to hit it.

Click to shrink...

👀

…yikes.
I'll fiddle with it over the weekend.
Btw, Cyberpunk was my "time to upgrade the GPU" game. 3080 and all that.
…yea, that turned out not that well. :D

 

[boris_feinbrand]

Stick to 1080p if u want to hit that 60 fps. I didn't even get 60 fps on my 3070 RTX at 1440p. Had to upgrade to a 3080 to hit it.

Click to shrink...

Without RT? Because there's something absolutely wrong there otherwise.

So…reinstalled this after…well, launch day when I just gave up.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
What can I expect after all these patches?
I'd like to be in the 50-60fps range for GSYNC to help me out.
@1440p btw on a Ryzen 1700x, 16GB RAM, 1070 Ti, SSD.
Possible?
Any recent performance guides/tips?
Thanks.

Click to shrink...

I installed the game on my old rig to see if it even runs (i5 4460, R9 380, 16GB DDR3, SATA SSD)
Turning most things to low with the exception of high quality face shadows and going for an aggressive Res scaling I got it to run mostly stable at 30fps. Mostly. So your PC should be doing easily 60fps with low settings.
Biggest performance killer in this game are distant shadows/cascade resolution etc. Even on my 3060ti turning those settings down significantly raised the FPS. Volumetric cloud quality can be set to medium or off.

 

[cHinzo]

Without RT? Because there's something absolutely wrong there otherwise.

I installed the game on my old rig to see if it even runs (i5 4460, R9 380, 16GB DDR3, SATA SSD)
Turning most things to low with the exception of high quality face shadows and going for an aggressive Res scaling I got it to run mostly stable at 30fps. Mostly. So your PC should be doing easily 60fps with low settings.
Biggest performance killer in this game are distant shadows/cascade resolution etc. Even on my 3060ti turning those settings down significantly raised the FPS. Volumetric cloud quality can be set to medium or off.

Click to shrink...

I'm pretty sure I had most settings on high with RT off. Indoors I could hit 60fps, but once u go drive or had action outdoors the fps tanked a lot, which made the experience not enjoyable.
Could handle 1080p easily though, but 1440p is a different beast.

 

[boris_feinbrand]

I'm pretty sure I had most settings on high with RT off. Indoors I could hit 60fps, but once u go drive or had action outdoors the fps tanked a lot, which made the experience not enjoyable.
Could handle 1080p easily though, but 1440p is a different beast.

Click to shrink...

Wow, my 3060ti with RT medium and DLSS Auto averages around 55 to 75 (under 60 when driving in the city center or being in one of the markets). I play on 2560x1080 so not quite 1440p. Without RT it never goes beneath 75 (refresh rate of my monitor). I don't even overclock the GPU that much.

Granted I switched SSR, AO and Distant Shadow Quality to the lowest setting. That alone saved me about 15fps. I also found it to not have that big of a visual impact unless you do a side by side comparison.

However, the game used to randomly drop the framerate to about 40-45 when playing too long. Haven't seen that behaviour with the latest patch but I now get crashes. Before I had a total of two since launch.

 

[Deleted member 12323]

Anyone else have the issue where it's so dark in interiors then it will suddenly become less dark the more you walk around?

 

[boris_feinbrand]

Anyone else have the issue where it's so dark in interiors then it will suddenly become less dark the more you walk around?

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All of them or just a few?

 

[john385]

Without RT? Because there's something absolutely wrong there otherwise.

I installed the game on my old rig to see if it even runs (i5 4460, R9 380, 16GB DDR3, SATA SSD)
Turning most things to low with the exception of high quality face shadows and going for an aggressive Res scaling I got it to run mostly stable at 30fps. Mostly. So your PC should be doing easily 60fps with low settings.
Biggest performance killer in this game are distant shadows/cascade resolution etc. Even on my 3060ti turning those settings down significantly raised the FPS. Volumetric cloud quality can be set to medium or off.

Click to shrink...

Thanks!
Will try it out.
Low's not the issue, even at 1440p for a 1070 Ti, but I'd like to get at least some options higher while still maintaining 50-60 (again, G-SYNC's a saver here -_-' )

 

[Deleted member 12323]

All of them or just a few?

Click to shrink...

Seems to vary

 

[boris_feinbrand]

Seems to vary

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Yeah I have that too from time to time. Seems to me the exposure adaptation is borked at times. Even had to use a mod to fix the insane exposure bloom in cars when driving.

 

[BossAttack]

So, um, do we actually believe they are planning a big update to fix, like...everything? Plus give us DLC? Or do we believe they've cut their losses and are all in on the next Witcher game?

Just booted it up today after a long hiatus and its weird how there are so many unused locations in the game that seems like they were either cut quests or there for later DLC. For instance, there's an entire prison in the city and there's actually some unique interactions and dialog outside of it such as a protest in front of police and NPCs talking about people locked up inside or another talking about just getting released.

If you look from the outside in, you can see prisoners in the prison yard basketball court. And if you get too close to one of the entrances, the guards will attack you. However, there is no way actually inside the prison. All the doors are permalocked and the fences go high enough you can't jump over and are covered with barbed wire. I managed to fuck around and jump into the prison, but once inside the guard AI seems broke and all the prisoners that were in the yard disappear.

ok, there are a lot of comparison videos out there, but this one got me:

Click to shrink...

Always hilarious, but not really fair to compare given the size and budget difference between these two games.

 

[boris_feinbrand]

So, um, do we actually believe they are planning a big update to fix, like...everything? Plus give us DLC? Or do we believe they've cut their losses and are all in on the next Witcher game?

Just booted it up today after a long hiatus and its weird how there are so many unused locations in the game that seems like they were either cut quests or there for later DLC. For instance, there's an entire prison in the city and there's actually some unique interactions and dialog outside of it such as a protest in front of police and NPCs talking about people locked up inside or another talking about just getting released.

If you look from the outside in, you can see prisoners in the prison yard basketball court. And if you get too close to one of the entrances, the guards will attack you. However, there is no way actually inside the prison. All the doors are permalocked and the fences go high enough you can't jump over and are covered with barbed wire. I managed to fuck around and jump into the prison, but once inside the guard AI seems broke and all the prisoners that were in the yard disappear.



Always hilarious, but not really fair to compare given the size and budget difference between these two games.

Click to shrink...

Comparing ANY open world game with Rockstars latest isn't going to be pretty. Their entire focus is on the systems and micro/macro simulation and has been for decades.
While I love CDPRs games, their open worlds (both of them lol) have been severely underwhelming. Witcher 3 got away with it for the most part as most of the World was uninhabited and faking daily life in a rural village or some farm cottages is easier.
CP2077 is a huge step up, but it only highlights how far behind even W3 was in this regard.

Personally I think they're still going to bring out DLC and add some of the world sim features like car AI back in at some point since that in particular seems to be in the game but disabled.
As for locations. Stuff like the prison could actually be a location for DLC. Most of those locations are just lore points though to give some extra flavour for those exploring the city and badlands.

The next Witcher game won't be releasing for years, so they have no choice but to stick with Cyberpunk, even if they might cut down on their plans for its support

 

[Tokyo_Funk]

Always hilarious, but not really fair to compare given the size and budget difference between these two games.

Click to shrink...

The crazy thing is, I've had more bugs, broken missions and oddities playing Red Dead 2 than I did with CP2077. I've had:
- People with missing features
- People floating around in T-Pose
- People walking sitting down
- People still talking with their head blown off
- Characters straight up disappearing while walking down the street
- People falling through the world after being tied up
- People walking through walls and straight up cliffs
- Horses walking in the sky
- Horse carriages suddenly "zooming" and crashing around into things
- Multiple NPCs getting completely stuck during missions or bugged out
- Not being able to open doors
- Falling through world geo
- Being flung kms into the air
And lots more other oddities. Even Highlight reel, years after Red Dead 2 launched is still getting tonnes of odd bugs and glitches in every new video.

 

[SofNascimento]

Always hilarious, but not really fair to compare given the size and budget difference between these two games.

Click to shrink...

As the video itself hints, it's fair the moment CDPR said they would deliver the next gen of open world games. They wanted to deliver something that would indeed be not only comparable, but would surpass, the likes of Red Dead Redemption 2. If they didn't have the means to do so, then they shouldn't promised that.

 

[Conditional-Pancakes]

As the video itself hints, it's fair the moment CDPR said they would deliver the next gen of open world games. They wanted to deliver something that would indeed be not only comparable, but would surpass, the likes of Red Dead Redemption 2. If they didn't have the means to do so, then they shouldn't promised that.

Click to shrink...

Absolutely. And let's not forget that GTA V and Red Dead Redemption 2 were internally "often held up as examples of the quality the company wanted to uphold". These comparisons are totally fair. They just couldn't achieve what they wanted to do, and it's on them.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[SofNascimento]

Absolutely. And let's not forget that GTA V and Red Dead Redemption 2 were internally "often held up as examples of the quality the company wanted to uphold". These comparisons are totally fair. They just couldn't achieve what they wanted to do, and it's on them.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Click to shrink...

Thank you.

And I would add that if we look at The Witcher 3, a game that had most certainly fewer people developing it and a smaller budget, we will find a game that can be compared to those type of titles. In fact, I always made a very positive association between TW3 and Red Dead Redemption, as I thought the former was the first game after the latter which could really capture an open world game in a rural area but also with cities.

 

[Aranikasu44]

Do you think CDPR will make the PS4 BC version run a bit livelier in the world on PS5 with an update or do we have to wait till the next gen version?

 

[Gamer @ Heart]

I still can't believe we haven't had even a whisper of the free DLC they were suppose to release, like costumes and shit. That's free good will and was the corner stone of the W3 updates, between the QoL patches almost every other month.

They really decided to just go radio silent until the next gen relaunch. If they don't have some meaningful new content for returning players I feel like it won't have anywhere near the impact they are hoping for

 

[AstralSphere]

Do you think CDPR will make the PS4 BC version run a bit livelier in the world on PS5 with an update or do we have to wait till the next gen version?

Click to shrink...

No. We'll have to wait for next gen.

 

[Tokyo_Funk]

I still can't believe we haven't had even a whisper of the free DLC they were suppose to release, like costumes and shit. That's free good will and was the corner stone of the W3 updates, between the QoL patches almost every other month.

They really decided to just go radio silent until the next gen relaunch. If they don't have some meaningful new content for returning players I feel like it won't have anywhere near the impact they are hoping for

Click to shrink...

Not using "Whataboutism" here, just observations of another time this happened recently.

BattleField V was put in a shocking launch state, with issues, bugs, server issues and balancing problems all over the place to the point where they had to delay DLC to resolve these issues first before delivering new content. I think something similar happened with BattleFront 2, but they were on full damage control to try and work around the whole lootbox thing and rebalancing the game before DLC should be launched. Let's also not forget No Man's Sky, which is an entire topic in itself.

The thing is, the base game has to work before DLC should be considered, otherwise the DLC will just have the exact same problem as the base game. If the DLC launched and the bugs were still present, the narrative would be "Why are they launching DLC when the base game doesn't work a LOL LOL LOL GAME DEVS ARE Stoopid". No matter which way the ball falls, there will be "Why isn't X available?" or "Why isn't Y" fixed. Unfortunately shifting work to other things delaying content is something that happens. Can't have a party in the penthouse when the damn building is crumbling.

 

[azfaru]

Hmm kinda wanna do a second play through with mods. Only ever played it vanilla, and all within first month of release. Very intrigued how the community has improved and changed the game. Any one been diving deep into the modding scene here? How's it feeling?

 

[Indy in the Fridge]

Playing this on Series X and I was (sarcastically) impressed that it has a longer opening than any Assassin's Creed game. It took me close to 6 hours before the title card appeared.

And that was after they kill off a pretty good character and replace him with the mean version of Keanu Reeves. And then you're given this very awkward and choppy interlude with transitions that require half a dozen separate load screens before finally settling in to Chapter 2.

I'm really worried how the game is going to progress from here. It really really feels like the bulk of this game was revamped when Keanu signed on and they just rebooted the game around his character. Which sucks because his character is so unlikeable especially when introduced immediately after Jackie is killed.

 

[Burt]

I'm really worried how the game is going to progress from here. It really really feels like the bulk of this game was revamped when Keanu signed on and they just rebooted the game around his character. Which sucks because his character is so unlikeable especially when introduced immediately after Jackie is killed.

Click to shrink...

I don't want to say too much, because I know that personally, even reading an ambiguous impression of a specific aspect of a story in a review can color the whole experience, but yes, I will say that I strongly agree with the idea that the game was heavily reworked once Keanu signed on -- and that that is probably the source of most of the game's issues.

That being said, most of the main throughline is about coming around to Keanu and Keanu coming around to you -- whether or not they hit the mark on that is up for debate, and your own opinion is the only one that really matters there.

 

[Indy in the Fridge]

I don't want to say too much, because I know that personally, even reading an ambiguous impression of a specific aspect of a story in a review can color the whole experience, but yes, I will say that I strongly agree with the idea that the game was heavily reworked once Keanu signed on -- and that that is probably the source of most of the game's issues.

That being said, most of the main throughline is about coming around to Keanu and Keanu coming around to you -- whether or not they hit the mark on that is up for debate, and your own opinion is the only one that really matters there.

Click to shrink...

And I tried to not let reviews dictate my judgment of the game, especially so early on but even early videos of the game suggested that Johnny would be, at most, a repeating cameo. When he started being featured on the promo materials, that's when I started to worry.

And if the game was truly reworked to focus on Johnny Silverhand then it just further suggests that CDPR aren't being fully transparent about why the game released in the state that it did. Especially with the discovery of version 0 which seems to have a lot of excised content (either because these features just couldn't work on base consoles or if because they belonged to the initial vision of the game and not what was eventually released--who knows).

Regardless, the "Interlude" that you play through after V's "death" and the subsequent exposition dump regarding The Relic makes me think that the first 5 or 6 hours of the game was pointing in a far different direction than what happens after the title card goes away.

 

[Burt]

And I tried to not let reviews dictate my judgment of the game, especially so early on but even early videos of the game suggested that Johnny would be, at most, a repeating cameo. When he started being featured on the promo materials, that's when I started to worry.

And if the game was truly reworked to focus on Johnny Silverhand then it just further suggests that CDPR aren't being fully transparent about why the game released in the state that it did. Especially with the discovery of version 0 which seems to have a lot of excised content (either because these features just couldn't work on base consoles or if because they belonged to the initial vision of the game and not what was eventually released--who knows).

Regardless, the "Interlude" that you play through after V's "death" and the subsequent exposition dump regarding The Relic makes me think that the first 5 or 6 hours of the game was pointing in a far different direction than what happens after the title card goes away.

Click to shrink...

oh man ping me after you beat the game and we'll talk about that interlude

people out here talking about the goddamn traffic being an issue in this game

 

[PanzerKraken]

Playing this on Series X and I was (sarcastically) impressed that it has a longer opening than any Assassin's Creed game. It took me close to 6 hours before the title card appeared.

And that was after they kill off a pretty good character and replace him with the mean version of Keanu Reeves. And then you're given this very awkward and choppy interlude with transitions that require half a dozen separate load screens before finally settling in to Chapter 2.

I'm really worried how the game is going to progress from here. It really really feels like the bulk of this game was revamped when Keanu signed on and they just rebooted the game around his character. Which sucks because his character is so unlikeable especially when introduced immediately after Jackie is killed.

Click to shrink...

Nah the storyline seems to have always involved Keanu's character as it plays a central part in everything. The game just had that overly long "prologue"

 

[Hummel003]

Any words on when the next gen update is coming out? I am still waiting for this

 

[Terbinator]

Any words on when the next gen update for next gen is coming out? I am still waiting for this

Click to shrink...

Probably Q4.

 

[Stooge]

So, I got a copy of this as a gift from a friend - I was planning on not playing it because of the Transphobic shit, but I got thrown a steam code for the game and checked it out.

What a thoroughly disappointing game. It looks great, the combat is pretty fun, but the games structure is just so on-rails and disapointing.

1) The main plot thread is just too short and basically drops characters and plotlines really fast. Not just the intro being overly long, which is another complaint, just dropping characters completely.
2) It turns out this is happening because these characters branch into side-missions that are often integral to the plot of the game or at least understanding what is going on. Some of these side quests are critical to the end-game and honestly are better than the main plot but others go nowhere and its hard to tell the difference between them.
3) Some end-game decisions are blocked behind side-quests that have nothing to do with the primary story.
4) One of my primary complaints about the game is the game keeps telling me I AM DYING and NEED HELP RIGHT NOW but then expects the player to ignore that and go scuba diving with your girlfriend and find some missing taxis and its honestly a plot device that open world games need to drop. You cannot put me on a countdown clock to doomsday and then punish me for acting like I might die soon because you actually want me to fuck around forever doing side-quests.

I wound up getting an ending the first time that I had little to no player choice about as I was basically just given a single series of decisions to make and no options due to missing some side content I didn't want to play and wound up going back and doing so to get an ending that fit the way my role playing.

The number of times that I was forced between choices that my character wouldn't have made was so stupid.

I think at the end of all of this, the game really fails to even make some of the plot progress/player choice decisions as well as much older games like KOTOR or ME2 and the game often felt like I was playing a much older GTA game with world decisions and character decisions that just didn't seem to matter at the time that then decision-treed me out of having options later in the game in extremely frustrating ways.

I'm all for my decisions having consequence, but my character was basically forced into doing things that didn't make sense for her based on how I had been role-playing the entire time.

 

[LegendX48]

So, I got a copy of this as a gift from a friend - I was planning on not playing it because of the Transphobic shit, but I got thrown a steam code for the game and checked it out.

What a thoroughly disappointing game. It looks great, the combat is pretty fun, but the games structure is just so on-rails and disapointing.

1) The main plot thread is just too short and basically drops characters and plotlines really fast.
2) It turns out this is happening because these characters branch into side-missions that are often integral to the plot of the game or at least understanding what is going on.
3) Some end-game decisions are blocked behind side-quests that have nothing to do with the primary story.

I wound up getting an ending the first time that I had little to no player choice about as I was basically just given a single series of decisions to make and no options due to missing some side content I didn't want to play and wound up going back and doing so to get an ending that fit the way my role playing.

The number of times that I was forced between choices that my character wouldn't have made was so stupid.

I think at the end of all of this, the game really fails to even make some of the plot progress/player choice decisions as well as much older games like KOTOR or ME2 and the game often felt like I was playing a much older GTA game with world decisions and character decisions that just didn't seem to matter at the time that then decision-treed me out of having options later in the game in extremely frustrating ways.

I'm all for my decisions having consequence, but my character was basically forced into doing things that didn't make sense for her based on how I had been role-playing the entire time.

Click to shrink...

That's because the game Pretends to at being rpg. Another Era poster put it best in that this is purely an action game with some dialogue options added for flavor and nothing more. No decision actually matters except for the mass effect 3 ABC ending choice.

Also doesn't help that the game doesn't actually let you roleplay. V is always an already established and defined character unlike, say, your character in fallout 1, 2, New Vegas, or The Outer Worlds.

 

[Stooge]

That's because the game Pretends to at being rpg. Another Era poster put it best in that this is purely an action game with some dialogue options added for flavor and nothing more. No decision actually matters except for the mass effect 3 ABC ending choice.

Also doesn't help that the game doesn't actually let you roleplay. V is always an already established and defined character unlike, say, your character in fallout 1, 2, New Vegas, or The Outer Worlds.

Click to shrink...

I dont disagree with this, but I will add it feels like the game tries to hide the effect of your choice. Often doing one random thing will cut-off a potential game-path but it wasn't clear you were even making a choice on the dialog tree.

 

[Indy in the Fridge]

I dont disagree with this, but I will add it feels like the game tries to hide the effect of your choice. Often doing one random thing will cut-off a potential game-path but it wasn't clear you were even making a choice on the dialog tree.

Click to shrink...

There were probably so many underlying systems initially built into the game that created so many divergent paths but because the game was riddled with problems prior to release they had to cut some of the less overt systems to get the game to run at any functional level. It's sad that the devs made the same promise as Peter Molyneux made nearly 2 decades ago with Fable. Impossible features that result in an RPG in name only.

 

[nihilence]

4) One of my primary complaints about the game is the game keeps telling me I AM DYING and NEED HELP RIGHT NOW but then expects the player to ignore that and go scuba diving with your girlfriend and find some missing taxis and its honestly a plot device that open world games need to drop. You cannot put me on a countdown clock to doomsday and then punish me for acting like I might die soon because you actually want me to fuck around forever doing side-quests.

Click to shrink...

I have this problem with alot of these open world games, ruins pacing and momentum. You either get forced into activities that don't make sense, or get punished with being under leveled, or mainline everything and miss content.

I think it's hard to maintain our instill urgency in an open world game. Keeping things tight is difficult.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

I have this problem with alot of these open world games, ruins pacing and momentum. You either get forced into activities that don't make sense, or get punished with being under leveled, or mainline everything and miss content.

I think it's hard to maintain our instill urgency in an open world game. Keeping things tight is difficult.

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i mean thats literally every game with side quests, even an incredibly linear game can do this if side content exists at all

 

[Tokyo_Funk]

Also doesn't help that the game doesn't actually let you roleplay. V is always an already established and defined character unlike, say, your character in fallout 1, 2, New Vegas, or The Outer Worlds.

Click to shrink...

Congrats, you've just described what it's not trying to be. It's an established character. Like JC Denton in Deus Ex 1, Adam Jensen in HR/MD and 90% of JRPGS.

Not every game needs pure roleplay and it's not a detriment that it is excluded.

 

[JustTeaThankYou]

Congrats, you've just described what it's not trying to be. It's an established character. Like JC Denton in Deus Ex 1, Adam Jensen in HR/MD and 90% of JRPGS.

Not every game needs pure roleplay and it's not a detriment that it is excluded.

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If it's an intentionally established character, why do you pick their starting background? It feels far less like it's an intentionally established character and more like they failed to cohere the role playing aspects at the last minute and quickly changed their tune

 

[Tokyo_Funk]

If it's an intentionally established character, why do you pick their starting background? It feels far less like it's an intentionally established character and more like they failed to cohere the role playing aspects at the last minute and quickly changed their tune

Click to shrink...

Having an intentionally established character with just one trait does not mean the floodgate should be opened for a completely different character altogether. No matter what choice you make they all converge on the same path in the intro anyway. Like System Shock 2. You're the same character, but you had a choice of 3 different paths in the beginning, but ultimately end on the same path.

 

[THE_W1TCHER]

That's because the game Pretends to at being rpg. Another Era poster put it best in that this is purely an action game with some dialogue options added for flavor and nothing more. No decision actually matters except for the mass effect 3 ABC ending choice.

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But that's not a metric to determine if a game is an rpg or not. If that would have been the case David Cage games and until dawn are RPGs and souls series are definitely not.

Cyberpunk is a rpg because you can express yourself in terms of wide range gameplay choices, how to handle different situations and form relationships with multiple important characters.

It may not be as deep as some crpgs but it's definitely not a pure qction game while many games with a simple skill tree are touted as "RPG" all the time.

 

[Dmax3901]

Finally watched Curio's excellent video essay on Cyberpunk 2077. It really seems more "neonliberal" than any punk. Really appreciated the depth they went into the orientalism of the genre, how other cyberpunk games don't need to play into the eastern hypercapitalist panic (Umurangi Generation, Observer, Cloudpunk, Ghostrunner), the shallow trans representation in the character creator that you can't do much of at all in the actual story or even talk in solidarity to the one trans character in the game, the confusing Matrix-inspired pills and Johnny gender dysphoria but the red pill makes you close to suicide while the film it was a metaphor for oestrogen and for waking up to the reality. Then there's outdated tropes of mentally ill people being baddies (cyber psychos), and prosthetics being seen as evil rather than disability aids like in Observer. Then the more neoliberal politics and edgy liberalism where it's easier to see the end of the world than the end of capitalism. Leftism or post-capitalism is seen as a joke and there is a lack of imagination to see any alternatives to capitalism. Then to continually reference Matrix or other better cyberpunk works which are much more aspirational, but Cyberpunk's version of the Matrix would be you took the red pill and nothing happened because it was just a pill and fuck you.

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Watched this a few weeks ago and it really is very good. Highly recommend.

 

[Messofanego]

Watched this a few weeks ago and it really is very good. Highly recommend.

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Glad you did! It's a hefty video but entertaining throughout.

 

[Staf]

Still no news on DLC? Just love the game and I'm itching to go back!

 

[Indy in the Fridge]

I really need CDPR to add an FOV slider to the console versions. Trying to do the fist fights, especially the one in Kabuki, is not fun at all with such a scrunched FOV.

Also, can anyone on Xbox recommend their control settings? I've messed around with them constantly but nothing feels right. The response curve is finnicky and the horizontal sensitivity wavers between too slow and too fast. I do have snap-to-target turned off by the way. Felt it made the gunplay too hand-holdy.

 

[BossAttack]

Well, one criticism I would offer Eric Sophia as an analyst is that they are one of those critics that seem to heavily judge works based on how much they align with their own political/personal beliefs. This is a mode of thinking I don't entirely like as it kind of frames works of fiction as tools people use to shape society rather than works of art on their own terms. That said, it's not entirely avoidable to do so, due to personal biases and how any expression we have is, to some degree, self expression. And in some ways, I can see how it's personally hurtful to see, like how the game took the Red Pill/Blue Pill choice of the Matrix where the Red Pill was a metaphor for becoming trans in order to see your true self and turned it into a choice for suicide where the Red Pill killed you. It's not invalid to do that, but someone who has emotional investment in the matrix is going to see that as a twisted, insulting parody of the meaning, not a homage. So the idea that Cyberpunk 2077 shouldn't offer alternatives to capitalism in terms of "It's a belief I disagree with"? I agree that isn't a super great criticism, even if I do believe in alternatives to capitalism.

But imo there are other ways of framing it that are more valid as well. Creative honesty, for example. If you're reading the game through the context of it's creation, you can get the sense of "there is no alternative to capitalism" is only there because the huge corperation that is selling Cyberpunk, a broken game created by the abuse of it's workers for the benefit of a few undeserving people at the top, would really push that message, wouldn't they? There not being an alternative to capitalism sounds pretty good to them. It means that however immorally they act or whatever they do, they are the right choice by default. And, this framing means that there is obviously blank holes left in the tapestry that the game paints because they don't want them to be there, like how the game seemingly avoids mentioning the idea that workers should join a union because CD PR themselves do not want to put the idea of a union in anyone's head.

Additionally, a big portion of the criticism is the creative sterility of the game. Cyberpunk 2077 is such an amalgamation and remix of so many cyberpunk tropes that it reguritates uncritically and unthinkingly that it spitting back the idea there is no alternative feels like it's not so much a creative choice so much a creative unchoice. As if the only reason it says there is no alternative is because so many of the foundational works of cyberpunk said it too, so it's just going with what they said. And I agree that I think we need new cyberpunk for the new, modern age, and a lot of what I see in art and culture is that the new generation of people have no use for cynicism. I'm a millennial, a 90's kid, so the generational plan for me was that I would get a college degree, a corperate job, and live out my life doing that. Being a rebel back then meant being resentful and hostile towards this system as it was, because there was a sense of artificiality of the promise we were given, so cynicism was a thing that made sense. But that is not the case anymore. Gen z doesn't have a plan. The worlds on fire, fascism is at an all time high, the idea of meritocracy in our government is an all out joke, and there is no longer any certainty of the future. So, this generation's idea of rebellion is being hopeful carelord that loves people around them despite the shit that is going on. So Cyberpunk pushing the idea that there is no alternative to capitalism doesn't have to be an "invalid" choice....it just feels like a tired and cliche one. It is no longer innovative nor new nor brave to throw up your hands and just shrug about how everything is fucked up.

To be clear, this isn't me supporting any one of these alternative framings uncritically or saying that Eric Sophia themselves think this, but I do think there are ways in which this creative choice is, if not invalid, then atleast lacking.

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I'm too paranoid at this point to respond to anything Cyberpunk outside of the OT, so I'm responding here.

I finished the video and my opinion is largely unchanged. A lot of the "criticism" tends me be more what the author wanted to see as opposed to analyzing what is actually presented. You mention that "we need new cyberpunk for the new, modern age." But the genre has always been a cautionary tale for the future. Thus, the notion of a cyberpunk narrative ending on a "happy" note, that society once it reaches that point can be changed, seems almost antithetical to the genre. The whole point of the genre is to say, "this is the future if we continue on our current trends, once we reach this point there is no turning back so you better fix shit now." It's less throwing up its hands than saying do something NOW, before it's too late.

Of course, the "cynical" or "hopeless" aspect of the genre is probably why it has never attracted a large audience. Blade Runner, Blade Runner 2049, Neuromancer, Altered Carbon, Ghost in the Shell, these have all been bombas. Sure they develop their own cult audience, but general audiences just don't seem attracted to moody think pieces about the hopeless despair of the future. Go figure.

For me, once I stopped trying to inject my own wishes into the narrative and accept what was presented, I really enjoyed the narrative. And the endings have all really stuck with me, one of the strongest endings in a video game as far as I'm concerned.

Me after finishing story:

 

[Tokyo_Funk]

That seems to be the narrative for most games nowadays. "Why can't this game cater to MY IDEALS and MY PERCEPTIONS and MY NEEDS AND WANTS" instead of taking it for what it is. I could go into any game thread and call a game not worth playing because it doesn't tick boxes directly to my own taste. "Why can't Zelda be more Dark Souls?" "Why can't Monster Hunter Rise be more like the older ones?" "Why can't X game have Y thing?" I could do this in video form too, all I have to do is ramp up the holier than thou attitude, increase the snark, jam in a few "Hurr that's awkward" cuts, make some simple minded association to symbolism, semiotics and that I have a film degree, put a dumb cartoon idealised version of myself looking over my shoulder all smug and BAM I've catered to how people assess things these days. ME ME ME MINE MINE MINE. It's all about what I want and how the world should cater to my likes and dislikes. Hey, you have the freedom to do that. Make your own ideal game based on your world, but that would take effort.

I'm too paranoid at this point to respond to anything Cyberpunk outside of the OT, so I'm responding here.

For me, once I stopped trying to inject my own wishes into the narrative and accept what was presented, I really enjoyed the narrative. And the endings have all really stuck with me, one of the strongest endings in a video game as far as I'm concerned.

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I appreaciate this post. Especially the whole "inject my wishes on the narrative and accept what was presented" part. Which is what I've been saying for so long.

 

[Spoit]

I don't have much to add about whether or not CP actually satisfied with the themes, since I never finished it. But I will say that there were plenty of people who already declared it as insufficiently punk months before it came out, so it's not like the narrative came out of nowhere. Personally, I just find that one meme tiresome, as people expect it to be an argument in and of itself

 

[Tokyo_Funk]

I don't have much to add about whether or not CP actually satisfied with the themes, since I never finished it. But I will say that there were plenty of people who already declared it as insufficiently punk months before it came out, so it's not like the narrative came out of nowhere. Personally, I just find that one meme tiresome, as people expect it to be an argument in and of itself

Click to shrink...

I already brought up the questions the game brought up with the narrative, of wether we own our own bodies, wether we take our own destiny into our own hands or let others control us through media, social norms, do we have a choice in deathand the overbearing narrative of corporate control through targeted manipulation.

No one seemed to want to discuss the philosophy I saw behind it, the questions it asked and how the people in the world are living in a fantasy wether it's in their own body, another body or an interface, but apparently even if all the bugs are quashed, all the scripts are fixed, all the missions are perfected and all the gameplay balances are implemented it still won't matter because "LOL CYBERPUNK AMIRITE?". As though to say the person who created the universe Mike PondSmith is wrong about his own gameworld that he made. Might as well say "Tolkien sucks because he doesn't conform to the expectations of what I understand a fantasy story to be in the past". And that is what it is. Fiction. One persons interpretation in a mass of interpretations.

 

[BossAttack]

That seems to be the narrative for most games nowadays. "Why can't this game cater to MY IDEALS and MY PERCEPTIONS and MY NEEDS AND WANTS" instead of taking it for what it is. I could go into any game thread and call a game not worth playing because it doesn't tick boxes directly to my own taste. "Why can't Zelda be more Dark Souls?" "Why can't Monster Hunter Rise be more like the older ones?" "Why can't X game have Y thing?" I could do this in video form too, all I have to do is ramp up the holier than thou attitude, increase the snark, jam in a few "Hurr that's awkward" cuts, make some simple minded association to symbolism, semiotics and that I have a film degree, put a dumb cartoon idealised version of myself looking over my shoulder all smug and BAM I've catered to how people assess things these days. ME ME ME MINE MINE MINE. It's all about what I want and how the world should cater to my likes and dislikes. Hey, you have the freedom to do that. Make your own ideal game based on your world, but that would take effort.

I appreaciate this post. Especially the whole "inject my wishes on the narrative and accept what was presented" part. Which is what I've been saying for so long.

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Well, I don't think all their arguments were without merit. It is merely that a good amount of "criticism" was for the game not doing what they wanted.

That said, there is plenty to criticize for what is there. I do love the fact that the video author brought up the point of how if you play as a female V, then there is a man inside your head who you will also see sometimes in the mirror that frightens you and you have to take pills to suppress them and at no point do you actually explore or discuss this aspect with anyone in the game. As the game doesn't see the clear parallels to gender dysmorphia.

However, even past that, one could argue that for accepting all that there is in the game, Cyberpunk offers nothing new. It doesn't really have anything to say that hasn't already been said in other Cyberpunk or dystopian media. And even its take on Cyberpunk is still stuck in a lot of 80's phobia. I understand that they are being faithful to the table-top, but a Japanese Corporation owning the world is pretty dated. There's a lot of half-baked ideas in Cyberpunk that aren't at all explored. We're told the Scavs (or whatever that gang was called) are all about transforming their bodies to become more machine, but we never explore this concept of transhumanism. We're just told that's what they believe and never or explore or question it. And if V decides to get blades sticking out their arms, the game never questions that either.

I feel like Johnny is a metaphor for all the themes in the game in that he throws a lot of ideas out there but has no understanding or deeper thought behind the brief ideas he throws out. The game's central thematic exploration (which is the one truly good aspect) about the meaning of life is oddly something that could have been told outside of its setting. It didn't HAVE to be a Cyberpunk game to tell its story.

So yeah, I think it is fair to criticize the game for really doing nothing new with the genre but recycle the same tropes and story beats. But, I do think you have to analyze the game for what it presents and not what you want.

 

[Tokyo_Funk]

Well, I don't think all their arguments were without merit. It is merely that a good amount of "criticism" was for the game not doing what they wanted.

That said, there is plenty to criticize for what is there. I do love the fact that the video author brought up the point of how if you play as a female V, then there is a man inside your head who you will also see sometimes in the mirror that frightens you and you have to take pills to suppress them and at no point do you actually explore or discuss this aspect with anyone in the game. As the game doesn't see the clear parallels to gender dysmorphia.

However, even past that, one could argue that for accepting all that there is in the game, Cyberpunk offers nothing new. It doesn't really have anything to say that hasn't already been said in other Cyberpunk or dystopian media. And even its take on Cyberpunk is still stuck in a lot of 80's phobia. I understand that they are being faithful to the table-top, but a Japanese Corporation owning the world is pretty dated. There's a lot of half-baked ideas in Cyberpunk that aren't at all explored. We're told the Scavs (or whatever that gang was called) are all about transforming their bodies to become more machine, but we never explore this concept of transhumanism. We're just told that's what they believe and never or explore or question it. And if V decides to get blades sticking out their arms, the game never questions that either.

I feel like Johnny is a metaphor for all the themes in the game in that he throws a lot of ideas out there but has no understanding or deeper thought behind the brief ideas he throws out. The game's central thematic exploration (which is the one truly good aspect) about the meaning of life is oddly something that could have been told outside of its setting. It didn't HAVE to be a Cyberpunk game to tell its story.

So yeah, I think it is fair to criticize the game for really doing nothing new with the genre but recycle the same tropes and story beats. But, I do think you have to analyze the game for what it presents and not what you want.

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Johnny being in your head, reguardless of gender scares both equally. V brings up that there is a terrorist in his/her/their head several times during the story beats, but the concept of Johhny being male doesn't need to be brought up at any point. His (if you can even call it that) underlying personality is an electronic construct of his personality, the game questions if Johnny and his ideals/personality have actually been properly replicated. Last I recall, Beyond Two Souls had a male ghost taking over a female body, but this was never brought up as an issue of dysmorphia. Hell the ghost can literally see a girl taking off her clothes and showering. Johnny is a construct made from memories, but is he actually real? I don't think so. It's merely a bunch of algorithms imitating a personality. One of the choices you can make is to put Jackie on a chip, if you meet his construct later, you'll find that it is flawed, broken and can't actually replicate the person it was trying to create. Which begs the question if Johnny is actually Johnny. No he is'nt. He is a construct of past ideals and ideas and stuck in an age of oppression that is somewhat outdated and lives as a memory.

The concept of Japan owning the world is outdated, but the same can be said about pretty much any country owning the world. Russia, America, Germany, bring on the cliche's that have been done before. I've lost count of how many times I've read about "Unknown evils" coming out of the ground, sky portals, or space. There are countless fictional stories where America is the ruler and no one bats an eye, but for some reason CyberPunk is seen as an exception for some reason. I can't think of many games or films that don't rely on dated concepts and ideas. Even Fallout is built on "China are warlike" "America is the best" concepts.

The scavs aren't who you're thinking of, I think you mean Maelstrom. Maelstroms intentions are that people can be greater than themselves by becoming mechanical/cybernetic, but at the cost of humanity. Humanity in the original board game was a big part of modification, the more you were decked out, the more humanity you lose until you become a cyberpsycho. This opens up philosiphy on wether or not technology controls us or we control technology. Maelstrom stongly believe in not only "bettering" themselves, but to a selfish extent others also. The mission in which you rescue the monk is very much a clash of beliefs. The monk not wanting to be chipped/chromed in any way, but having an outside force stronger than him forcing him to become modified. Maelstrom forces their ideas on others and believes the flesh is weak, even revering one of the cyberpsychos in a late night ritual of blood sacrifice, which can be brought in as them seeing their ideas as religious in philosophy. Most of them are clinically or borderline cyberpsychos, which a lot of their entries and notes mention. Some embrace losing control, others regret it or are too far gone to understand what they have done to themselves. Given that their primary source of income is to commit heists, chop people up and deliver drugs, you'd probably be nuts to consider being a Maelstromer.

 

[Veelk]

I finished the video and my opinion is largely unchanged. A lot of the "criticism" tends me be more what the author wanted to see as opposed to analyzing what is actually presented. You mention that "we need new cyberpunk for the new, modern age." But the genre has always been a cautionary tale for the future. Thus, the notion of a cyberpunk narrative ending on a "happy" note, that society once it reaches that point can be changed, seems almost antithetical to the genre. The whole point of the genre is to say, "this is the future if we continue on our current trends, once we reach this point there is no turning back so you better fix shit now." It's less throwing up its hands than saying do something NOW, before it's too late.

Click to shrink...

I think this is an overly simplified read of the argument. Yes, to some extent, that is part of Eric Sophia's pitch here, but that's ignoring all the other stuff that comes with it. They did engage with the game as it was intended to be, and they spent several parts of their essay talkign about that. And I feel you ignored a good chunk of what I wrote about their take in the other thread, because I was tempted to write out a response, but then I realized I'd just be repeating myself from the initial reply I made to you, so mostly go reread that one.

Truth is, the "tends to be more what the author wanted than what is presented" is a dismissal can be essentialed into any critique. Oh, did you not like the Game of Thrones ending? Well, you're just talking about what you wanted, like character consistency, coherent political theming, and a baseline realism, and that's clearly not what Season 8 is about, so the problem is you not meeting it on it's own terms, obviously. No, ultimately, all criticism comes down to "I wish things were how I want them to be, not how they are" and different people have their own standards of when this dismissal is appropriate and when it's not, but for me, the line is whether the critic engages with the material depends if they are able to make a coherent argument for why the game would be better if their criticism were realized into the game. Eric Sophia doesn't do that just with words, they list out other Cyperpunk titles that do the things they are saying CP2077 failed at. So what talking about the game Cyperpunk 2077 should have been is legitimate.

But I will stress that the problem isn't that the game doesn't offer a happy ending, that's just a bad reading of the critique. It's that the game doesn't offer a creative ending, a modern ending. If you're this fixated on the "happy/sad" aspect of it, then I'll clarify you can still make a cynical and sad ending to the game, but engage in real progressive ideas. Like, okay, you think unions will fail? Sure, then write a story about that. How do they fail? What stops them? Because the answer the game offers is to not even explore it. It doesn't meaningfully attempt to grapple with the failures of unions or real leftist ideals or anything. It just inherently assumes a predestination to failure without actually talking about the how and why and what would be realistic. You want to be cynical, fine, but do it intelligently and honestly. Not this effortless shrug that the game does.


That being said, you're reply here is really feels like you missed the point of the argument. "This is the future if we continue..."? "It's less throwing up its hands than saying do something NOW, before it's too late." Dude, it's fucking 2021. For a lot of stuff, it IS too late. A lot of the stuff that Cyperpunks from 20 to 40 years ago has long since past. They're not the potential future anymore, they're the now. Or else they've long since ceased to be. Like, the depictions about Japans economic take over of the world was a panic american writers were feeling, but that's obviously not a fear anymore, so what is it warning you about? How is it not simple sinophobia? And with regards to things like how corperations will ruin the climate? To my understanding, we have already past the point where we can meaningfully stop all climate change and making radical alterations now is, at best, trying to marginalize the insane damage that will occur regardless of what we do now. If the purpose of the cynicism of the future was to give us reason to avoid it, then what good does it do us now when it's unavoidable?

And that is why I agree that the cynicism is just...outdated. And I am a cynical person, but that's because I'm of the past generation and from what I hear, so are you. The future generation has to do what we didn't, and to do that they need new stories, because ours have failed us. We are in the future we told ourselves to avoid. So you cannot make a "This is just what Cyberpunk classically is" because...well, partially because I don't agree with that framing, but even if I did, my only response is "Well, then it should have been made 20 to 40 years ago, not now".

 

[BossAttack]

I think this is an overly simplified read of the argument. Yes, to some extent, that is part of Eric Sophia's pitch here, but that's ignoring all the other stuff that comes with it. They did engage with the game as it was intended to be, and they spent several parts of their essay talkign about that. And I feel you ignored a good chunk of what I wrote about their take in the other thread, because I was tempted to write out a response, but then I realized I'd just be repeating myself from the initial reply I made to you, so mostly go reread that one.

Truth is, the "tends to be more what the author wanted than what is presented" is a dismissal can be essentialed into any critique. Oh, did you not like the Game of Thrones ending? Well, you're just talking about what you wanted, like character consistency, coherent political theming, and a baseline realism, and that's clearly not what Season 8 is about, so the problem is you not meeting it on it's own terms, obviously. No, ultimately, all criticism comes down to "I wish things were how I want them to be, not how they are" and different people have their own standards of when this dismissal is appropriate and when it's not, but for me, the line is whether the critic engages with the material depends if they are able to make a coherent argument for why the game would be better if their criticism were realized into the game. Eric Sophia doesn't do that just with words, they list out other Cyperpunk titles that do the things they are saying CP2077 failed at. So what talking about the game Cyperpunk 2077 should have been is legitimate.

But I will stress that the problem isn't that the game doesn't offer a happy ending, that's just a bad reading of the critique. It's that the game doesn't offer a creative ending, a modern ending. If you're this fixated on the "happy/sad" aspect of it, then I'll clarify you can still make a cynical and sad ending to the game, but engage in real progressive ideas. Like, okay, you think unions will fail? Sure, then write a story about that. How do they fail? What stops them? Because the answer the game offers is to not even explore it. It doesn't meaningfully attempt to grapple with the failures of unions or real leftist ideals or anything. It just inherently assumes a predestination to failure without actually talking about the how and why and what would be realistic. You want to be cynical, fine, but do it intelligently and honestly. Not this effortless shrug that the game does.


That being said, you're reply here is really feels like you missed the point of the argument. "This is the future if we continue..."? "It's less throwing up its hands than saying do something NOW, before it's too late." Dude, it's fucking 2021. For a lot of stuff, it IS too late. A lot of the stuff that Cyperpunks from 20 to 40 years ago has long since past. They're not the potential future anymore, they're the now. Or else they've long since ceased to be. Like, the depictions about Japans economic take over of the world was a panic american writers were feeling, but that's obviously not a fear anymore, so what is it warning you about? How is it not simple sinophobia? And with regards to things like how corperations will ruin the climate? To my understanding, we have already past the point where we can meaningfully stop all climate change and making radical alterations now is, at best, trying to marginalize the insane damage that will occur regardless of what we do now. If the purpose of the cynicism of the future was to give us reason to avoid it, then what good does it do us now when it's unavoidable?

And that is why I agree that the cynicism is just...outdated. And I am a cynical person, but that's because I'm of the past generation and from what I hear, so are you. The future generation has to do what we didn't, and to do that they need new stories, because ours have failed us. We are in the future we told ourselves to avoid. So you cannot make a "This is just what Cyberpunk classically is" because...well, partially because I don't agree with that framing, but even if I did, my only response is "Well, then it should have been made 20 to 40 years ago, not now".

Click to shrink...

I'm not so much dismissing their critique. I think there is a difference between "it's that way because it is that way" and fundamentally wishing a narrative pr piece of media were something else entirely. You can criticize Game of Thrones ending, but you can't just ding it because its not Lord of the Rings with near flawless heroes against a clearly evil foe. I'd like to criticize Cyberpunk's read on politics, especially leftist ideas. But, the game isn't at all about that and Cyberpunk as a genre doesn't really engage with those themes either.

First, we have to accept that the genre itself is tiny. There's a handful of films Blade Runners, Ghost in the Shell, The Matrix (maybe). And none of them discuss politics to any significant extent. Of course, we can extend the genre to talk about its origins out of noir crime stories, films like Chinatown. Again, politics isn't really explored except to display how it's all rigged and corrupt ("Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."). So, when you're asking for some leftist politics in a Cyberpunk game that displays the values of unions, that's just not something the genre has done. Now, could someone move the genre to say more? Yes, but we haven't really seen it done. Again, the sample size of cyberpunk stories are incredibly small and the genre itself is difficult to categorize. Like, personally I wouldn't consider The Matrix films as part of the genre given their far future, post-apocalyptic setting. The genre still feels like its defining itself.

However, you are correct in that 2077 doesn't explore even the failures of these concepts to strike some message. I think it is valid to criticize the game not even exploring something like trade unions and how they are squashed by capitalism. Though we do get a tiny exploration of agricultural farmers on the outskirts, a profession you would think could escape the influence of the corporations. Yet, we see they too are trapped by the corporations and made to grow the seeds they manufacture. This is a sub-story in the Aldecados side mission.

But that goes to my above post about the game throwing a lot of ideas out there but not meaningfully exploring any of them. 2077 is only interested in exploring alienation through the further advancement of technology and existentialism. Everything else is just window dressing. So, while I'd like to criticize its half-baked ideas on transhumanism or even the rise of AI. I know the story isn't in anyway about that.