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Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,168
Washington, D.C.
Epileptic PSA: There are reports that animations and flashing lights in this game can cause seizures. Read this article for more information


Why is there controversy surrounding CD Projekt Red and Cyberpunk 2077?

CD Projekt Red has a history of transphobia. This is well documented at this point and not a matter of debate. Due to this context there is particular concern about transphobic or insensitive content in Cyberpunk 2077 itself, such as the decision to tie gender to voice in the character creator, and trans fetishization in illustrations in the game—and these are just examples from prerelease footage. Additionally, there have been concerns about racist imagery and stereotyping. This article goes into depth about some of these issues.


What incidents of transphobia have occurred surrounding the game and the company, and why are they hurtful?

This list will be updated over time as more examples come to light, especially as the game releases and more content is uncovered. If you wish to have something added to this list, please send me a DM and get my attention.


Why is ResetEra allowing an official thread for this game?

There has been a lot of discussion about whether there should even be an official thread for Cyberpunk 2077, and many points of view were considered for this decision. Ultimately, a thread like this can serve as a platform for minority concerns to be aired and discussed respectfully, and given appropriate attention. We've also heard from minority members, including some trans members, who have asked for a space where they can talk about the game without needing to worry about trolling and bigoted posting. We expect all posters in the thread to extend the consideration and empathy to give them that space. We will be moderating as strictly as necessary to make sure they do.


What can I do to help fight transphobia?

Transphobia exists in many aspects of our lives. From casual discrimination such as the continuous misuse of a person's preferred pronouns, to more serious ramifications such as housing being denied, legal rights being taken away, and being discriminated in the legal system. Every trans person either has experienced transphobia in their lives, or will experience transphobia at some point.

Moreover, transphobia is a systematic issue that is present in every level of our society. Politicians fight to take away our rights. Celebrities use coded language and religious justifications, if not outright hostility, in order to continue to deny our existence. Media continues to portray us as the butt of a joke, or acts like we're something to be fascinated by, rather than treated with respect.

Actions speak louder than words: Become active in your local politics, donate to transgender causes, stand up for these issues wherever they arise, and if you know transgender people in your life be there for them and support them.


Here are some pro-trans organizations around the world where you can make a donation and show your support
  • For those of you in the US, The Trevor Project is one of the leading LGBT organizations. They are dedicated to crisis intervention and suicide prevention for people who are in need of support, love, and care.
  • For those of you in the UK, Mermaids is dedicated to the support of transgender, non-binary, and gender-diverse children, young adults, and their families. They have been around since 1995, and have been one of the most vocal voices speaking out against transphobia in the UK, including showing the dangers that transphobia imposes upon our youth.
  • If you would like to donate to CDPR's native country of Poland, you can find the Trans-Fuzja Foundation website here. The Trans-Fuzja Foundation has been around since 2008, and is dedicated to the support of transgender people in Poland in many aspects of life and society, including politics.
We are your friends. We are your family members. We're your coworkers. We're the people you meet on the street. We're the essential workers who keep society running in a pandemic. We're everywhere. We're not some sort of freak or joke, and we're not going away.

I want to give major thanks to Uzzy for lending her talent, time, and effort in putting together graphics and material for this official thread. Without her, this would not have been possible on such short notice. I would also like to give a shout out and thanks to Kyuuji for allowing me to use images and links from her own thread for this posts.
 

Nephtes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,550
I would like to discuss Keanu Reeves as Johnny Silverhand.
On paper, this is awesome. In practice, I find Keanu sounds bored in probably 60% of his line delivery. Like he Peter Dinklaged his way through the voice sessions...

Is this a voice direction issue or did having to record so much dialogue (many times twice for male and female V) just weigh Reeves down over time?

Like some of the times he sounds legitimately great, but other times it's just not good, and it really stands out in what I would suggest is otherwise a very well voice acted game from every major NPC I've come across so far.

I felt there was more emotion and energy from Reeves on stage at the Xbox E3 Cyberpunk 2077 reveal than what I've seen so far in the game.

And it's not like Keanu can't act. So many of his lines would come across so much better if he had the kind of tone or emotion in his voice say from his performance as John Wick.

If I had been the voice acting director who had to deal with Reeves after every take I'd just play back the line from John Wick, "Yeah, I'm thinking I'm back!" and tell him "alright, once more, but like this...."

So, upon new playthrough its shocking to see how quickly you can blaze to the ending of the game. I've already unlocked the ending mission 20 hours in, and I did some other side quests as well as some other stuff. Thus, you can easily complete the whole game in about 14-20 hours if you stick purely to the main path. What differentiates 2077 from TW3 and many other RPGs is that there is very little gating of main game content.

In TW3, there are times where the main quest is basically, "go fuck off and explore and do some side quests for a bit." Thus, you are prevented from just barreling through the main story content. 2077 has no such gating besides certain NPCs requiring you to wait a day, which can easily be accomplished through sleeping, before progressing through main content. I'm actually shocked how short the main game content actually is.

I think they've said this is by design. Barely anyone finished the Witcher III's story based on Achievement/Trophy percentage and CDPR wanted to make sure most people would see the end of Cyberpunk 2077.

Considering the Witcher III took me 5 years to complete from the date I started the game to the date I finished, I think I'm glad they took this approach in CP 2077.

When I did a RTTP thread on Witcher III I bemoaned how when I got to the "POINT OF NO RETURN" there was actually something like 15 hours of story gameplay left. It felt like such an awful drawn out slog, that I felt would have been better served by a tighter narrative.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,007
I would like to discuss Keanu Reeves as Johnny Silverhand.
On paper, this is awesome. In practice, I find Keanu sounds bored in probably 60% of his line delivery. Like he Peter Dinklaged his way through the voice sessions...

Is this a voice direction issue or did having to record so much dialogue (many times twice for male and female V) just weigh Reeves down over time?

Like some of the times he sounds legitimately great, but other times it's just not good, and it really stands out in what I would suggest is otherwise a very well voice acted game from every major NPC I've come across so far.

I felt there was more emotion and energy from Reeves on stage at the Xbox E3 Cyberpunk 2077 reveal than what I've seen so far in the game.

And it's not like Keanu can't act. So many of his lines would come across so much better if he had the kind of tone or emotion in his voice say from his performance as John Wick.

If I had been the voice acting director who had to deal with Reeves after every take I'd just play back the line from John Wick, "Yeah, I'm thinking I'm back!" and tell him "alright, once more, but like this...."



I think they've said this is by design. Barely anyone finished the Witcher III's story based on Achievement/Trophy percentage and CDPR wanted to make sure most people would see the end of Cyberpunk 2077.

Considering the Witcher III took me 5 years to complete from the date I started the game to the date I finished, I think I'm glad they took this approach in CP 2077.

When I did a RTTP thread on Witcher III I bemoaned how when I got to the "POINT OF NO RETURN" there was actually something like 15 hours of story gameplay left. It felt like such an awful drawn out slog, that I felt would have been better served by a tighter narrative.

Disagree vehemently.

I don't care about people that never finished, who cares? They bought the game and can still finish if they want. I like a nice meaty story that takes into account all the time I've spent with the game. I honestly don't even think that is there real reason, I think its a convenient excuse for running out of time to complete the game after multiple reboots.

As for Keanu:

A) Keanu Reeves is actually not a good actor. He has a certain niche he can do pretty well, but he's generally not a great actor.

B) That said, Cyberpunk is one of his best performances as it operates in his niche. He does a really god job voicing Johnny, now there are times he doesn't sound as good as other lines but that is mostly due to voice direction and the simple fact that Keanu isn't that great of an actor.
 

Nephtes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,550
Disagree vehemently.

I don't care about people that never finished, who cares? They bought the game and can still finish if they want. I like a nice meaty story that takes into account all the time I've spent with the game. I honestly don't even think that is there real reason, I think its a convenient excuse for running out of time to complete the game after multiple reboots.

I mean you might not care about people who don't finish the story, but as a content creator, as the author of a narrative, trust me, you care.

If after you spend years and years working on a piece of media be it novel, video game, comic, etc. expressly for the purpose of connecting with and entertaining people and yet only 10% of the people who start your story/game/comic actually read/play through to the end, I would ask "Why is this? Where have I failed as an author to engage my audience that they felt they didn't feel the need to make it to the end of my story?"

If as a creator you spent a lot of time, work and energy creating a large chunk of content that you know few people experience, what is your impetus to make that content good?
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,007
I mean you might not care about people who don't finish the story, but as a content creator, as the author of a narrative, trust me, you care.

If after you spend years and years working on a piece of media be it novel, video game, comic, etc. expressly for the purpose of connecting with and entertaining people and yet only 10% of the people who start your story/game/comic actually read/play through to the end, I would ask "Why is this? Where have I failed as an author to engage my audience that they felt they didn't feel the need to make it to the end of my story?"

If as a creator you spent a lot of time, work and energy creating a large chunk of content that you know few people experience, what is your impetus to make that content good?

The fact that people are "lazy" or don't have the "time" to finish a story is not an indicator of "failure."

War and Peace is long.
Moby Dick is long.
Ulysses is long.
The Lord of the Rings is long.
A Song of Ice and Fire is both long and unfinished.

The Godfather films are very long.
Laurence of Arabia is so long it has an intermission.
2001: A Space Odyssey is long.

All I'm saying is that a piece of media being so "long" that a segment don't finish it does not mean its bad. I would ask those players whether they enjoyed what they played and if the answer is, "yes." I don't see the problem. Let people not finish stories and let people that finish them enjoy them. I've also never bought the "not having time" excuse when people regularly binge watch seasons worth of TV shows. "Not having time" rarely translates to that, it really translates to "I lost interest in the game such that I no longer felt like investing more time in it over other entertainment."
 

Fjordson

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,010
I actually really like Keanu as Johnny. There are clunkers (for some reason his angry lines tend to sound pretty wooden) but most of the time he's more subdued and sounds pretty good imo.
 

Conditional-Pancakes

The GIFs of Us
Member
Jun 25, 2020
10,841
the wilderness
CDPR suggested a workaround for the Takemura bug:

kotaku.com

Cyberpunk 2077's Latest Patch Added A Game-Breaking Bug [Updated: CDPR Suggests Workaround]

Last Friday, CD Projekt Red dropped the first major update for its troubled open-world shooter, Cyberpunk 2077. “Major” is a relative term. While larger than previous updates, last week’s patch 1.1 focuses more on stability fixes rather than a wide-ranging overhaul. In fact, it may have even...
(Update: 9:45 a.m. ET, 1/25: CD Projekt Red has published a workaround for this bug. First, load up a save file from before you and Takemura leave Wakako's office. Wrap up your chat with Takemura immediately and skip ahead 23 in-game hours. That should do the trick.)

Cyberpunk 2077 - PC | Technical Support — CD PROJEKT RED

Welcome to CD PROJEKT RED Technical Support! Here you will find help regarding our games and services, as well as answers to frequently asked questions.
We are currently looking into the issue where the conversation with Takemura may not start during the quest "Down on the Street".

For a potential workaround follow the steps below (note, an earlier gamesave is required):
  1. Load a gamesave before Takemura and V leave Wakako's office.
  2. Finish the conversation with Takemura outside the office right away
  3. Right after the finished conversation and when the quest was updated, skip 23h.
  4. See if the holocall triggers and the dialogue with Takemura starts
 

Mediking

Final Fantasy Best Boy (Grip)
Member
Has the experience at least improved markedly since you installed 1.1 on base PS4?

I haven't looked today but I didn't really see any 1.06->1.1 comparisons with actual FPS counts this weekend... although I've heard some of the next gen consoles now have reduced draw distances after the patch ...
I mean... kinda lol I kinda see improvements. I'm not really a guy whose good at noticing noticeable stuff. On base PS4, there's always been pop in and glitches but it's lessened over time. There are very annoying glitches tho lol
 

mujun

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,855
I actually really like Keanu as Johnny. There are clunkers (for some reason his angry lines tend to sound pretty wooden) but most of the time he's more subdued and sounds pretty good imo.

I agree. I understand the argument that his delivery lacks emotion at times but for whatever reason I find that it works. After spending so long with Johnny it's almost as though Johnny is Keanu and not the other way around. I really like the character. I think that he's well written, too.
 
Last edited:

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
what i dont like about johnny and v is that it doesnt matter how good you relationship with him si, there some instances where you are a pair of assholes with each other.

also i didnt like that even johnny specifically called me one of the only people that didnt hate being around him, i wasnt able to select the secret ending.
 

misho8723

Member
Jan 7, 2018
3,719
Slovakia
People who aren't making the psycho killer quests because there isn't a reward for it right now (probably a bug), are really missing out
ITYuBsj.png

There are so many interesting places in the gameworld
OnXv3oV.png

PGD8qTL.png
 

Burt

Fight Sephiroth or end video games
Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,158
People who aren't making the psycho killer quests because there isn't a reward for it right now (probably a bug), are really missing out
ITYuBsj.png
I can definitely say that anyone who doesn't immediately fast forward to night whenever they stumble across a cyberpsycho quest is doing themselves a disservice
 

Deleted member 31423

Account closed at user request
Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,201
I played through the beginning hours of the game on ps4 pro patch 1.1. When I got out of my apartment and was suppose to get in the car with Jackie. I walked around the area for a minute and jackie disappeared from the car. I couldnt continue until i reloaded. Once i met the doctor for the inplant. I walked around his office and broke the ability to sit in his chair and continue till i reloaded. So i learned, dont explore or the games scripting breaks everytime...
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,799
VIC, AUSTRALIA
Just had a hard crash on PS5 so 1.1 definitely hasn't gotten rid of the 'drive across the city' crashes yet. Noticing a lot more lighting glitches now, had time of day completely change in the middle of the drive which threw me for a loop for a second lol

the game tells you, THIS IS AN ICONIC, ARE YOU SURE?!
There is zero warning on consoles, even on 1.1 patch. If you are barreling through 20+ weapon dismantles you absolutely can end up dismantling iconics without even realising. It's fucking dumb when they obviously have inventory flags to avoid it since you can't dismantle Johnny's gear.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
Just had a hard crash on PS5 so 1.1 definitely hasn't gotten rid of the 'drive across the city' crashes yet. Noticing a lot more lighting glitches now, had time of day completely change in the middle of the drive which threw me for a loop for a second lol


There is zero warning on consoles, even on 1.1 patch. If you are barreling through 20+ weapon dismantles you absolutely can end up dismantling iconics without even realising. It's fucking dumb when they obviously have inventory flags to avoid it since you can't dismantle Johnny's gear.

what i played in consoles, and it always told me i was about to dismantle an iconic item
 

Nephtes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,550
The fact that people are "lazy" or don't have the "time" to finish a story is not an indicator of "failure."

War and Peace is long.
Moby Dick is long.
Ulysses is long.
The Lord of the Rings is long.
A Song of Ice and Fire is both long and unfinished.

The Godfather films are very long.
Laurence of Arabia is so long it has an intermission.
2001: A Space Odyssey is long.

All I'm saying is that a piece of media being so "long" that a segment don't finish it does not mean its bad. I would ask those players whether they enjoyed what they played and if the answer is, "yes." I don't see the problem. Let people not finish stories and let people that finish them enjoy them. I've also never bought the "not having time" excuse when people regularly binge watch seasons worth of TV shows. "Not having time" rarely translates to that, it really translates to "I lost interest in the game such that I no longer felt like investing more time in it over other entertainment."

I don't think it would be a good idea if you as an author suggested your audience was lazy. I wasn't. I put 150ish hours into the Witcher III over 5 years and did I enjoy what I played? Some of it. Yes.

But I went back to what I wrote on this site one day after finishing the game 5 YEARS after buying it at launch:


"The Witcher III overstays its welcome by a lot. The fact that I've put it down multiple times to play other things in 5 years is testament to that, and believe me, I do not have issues finishing games (I finished DOOM Eternal, FFVII Remake, and Animal Crossing since I started this topic back in January). It's funny, each time I pick the Witcher III back up, I find it fun engaging with meaningful feeling side quests at first, but the more I play the quest structure becomes so repetitive it becomes grating.

The last chapters of the story are an absolute slog. I'm sorry game, if you throw out there in big letters, "THIS IS THE POINT OF NO RETURN", I expect the ending to be nigh. But not the Witcher III. When you reach the point of no return, The Isle of Mist, you've probably got 20-25 hours of game left including but not limited to:
· Finding Ciri
· Preparing to defend Kaer Moren
· Defending Kaer Moren from the Wild Hunt
· Going to a weird Medieval cult version of Burning Man
· Getting Revenge on a dude at Medieval Cult Burning Man
· Gathering the Sorceresses
· Traveling between planes of existence to talk to a guy into not helping big bad
· Preparing to take on the Wild Hunt
· Preparing the take on the Wild Hunt Skellige Edition
· Taking on the Wild Hunt
· Experiencing the Apocalypse
· Enjoying a walk in the snow with friends

It's TOO MUCH. If Cyberpunk 2077 does this, I fear I'm going to have another game I'll still by trying to finish in 2025 on the Xbox Series X Pro. I think I would have been much happier if the Witcher III had trimmed some of the content fat and focused on other aspects of the game like…"


after which I go off for a while on just how janky the Witcher III's final segment plays out. You can read the entire lengthy rant here if you care: https://www.resetera.com/threads/rt...ur-polish-game-developer.163686/post-37264201

At the end of the day, the experience left me with a bad taste so to speak. There was a ton of content, but I didn't feel engaged by most of it. I didn't enjoy the content because I felt I could have gotten more out of it had it been streamlined.

And that's why the main scenario of CP2077 is so focused. If you choose to, you can run straight to the end in no time. Or you can experience all the game has to offer.

So far I'm 24 hours into CP2077 and I'm really enjoying the side content and the world so i haven't rushed right to the end. But I'm glad people have the option to do so if that suits them.

If at any point I feel like I'm done with CP 2077, believe me, I'll beeline for the end ASAP.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,007
I don't think it would be a good idea if you as an author suggested your audience was lazy. I wasn't. I put 150ish hours into the Witcher III over 5 years and did I enjoy what I played? Some of it. Yes.

But I went back to what I wrote on this site one day after finishing the game 5 YEARS after buying it at launch:


"The Witcher III overstays its welcome by a lot. The fact that I've put it down multiple times to play other things in 5 years is testament to that, and believe me, I do not have issues finishing games (I finished DOOM Eternal, FFVII Remake, and Animal Crossing since I started this topic back in January). It's funny, each time I pick the Witcher III back up, I find it fun engaging with meaningful feeling side quests at first, but the more I play the quest structure becomes so repetitive it becomes grating.

The last chapters of the story are an absolute slog. I'm sorry game, if you throw out there in big letters, "THIS IS THE POINT OF NO RETURN", I expect the ending to be nigh. But not the Witcher III. When you reach the point of no return, The Isle of Mist, you've probably got 20-25 hours of game left including but not limited to:
· Finding Ciri
· Preparing to defend Kaer Moren
· Defending Kaer Moren from the Wild Hunt
· Going to a weird Medieval cult version of Burning Man
· Getting Revenge on a dude at Medieval Cult Burning Man
· Gathering the Sorceresses
· Traveling between planes of existence to talk to a guy into not helping big bad
· Preparing to take on the Wild Hunt
· Preparing the take on the Wild Hunt Skellige Edition
· Taking on the Wild Hunt
· Experiencing the Apocalypse
· Enjoying a walk in the snow with friends

It's TOO MUCH. If Cyberpunk 2077 does this, I fear I'm going to have another game I'll still by trying to finish in 2025 on the Xbox Series X Pro. I think I would have been much happier if the Witcher III had trimmed some of the content fat and focused on other aspects of the game like…"


after which I go off for a while on just how janky the Witcher III's final segment plays out. You can read the entire lengthy rant here if you care: https://www.resetera.com/threads/rt...ur-polish-game-developer.163686/post-37264201

At the end of the day, the experience left me with a bad taste so to speak. There was a ton of content, but I didn't feel engaged by most of it. I didn't enjoy the content because I felt I could have gotten more out of it had it been streamlined.

And that's why the main scenario of CP2077 is so focused. If you choose to, you can run straight to the end in no time. Or you can experience all the game has to offer.

So far I'm 24 hours into CP2077 and I'm really enjoying the side content and the world so i haven't rushed right to the end. But I'm glad people have the option to do so if that suits them.

If at any point I feel like I'm done with CP 2077, believe me, I'll beeline for the end ASAP.

This is where we have to disagree as I've never felt TW3 was a slog or poorly paced. Its length is perfect. All those "time wasting" parts I view as essential. Yes, we did need that teleportation mission to convince a guy to not support another guy.
 

Idan27081

Member
Jan 1, 2019
96
I don't think it would be a good idea if you as an author suggested your audience was lazy. I wasn't. I put 150ish hours into the Witcher III over 5 years and did I enjoy what I played? Some of it. Yes.

But I went back to what I wrote on this site one day after finishing the game 5 YEARS after buying it at launch:


"The Witcher III overstays its welcome by a lot. The fact that I've put it down multiple times to play other things in 5 years is testament to that, and believe me, I do not have issues finishing games (I finished DOOM Eternal, FFVII Remake, and Animal Crossing since I started this topic back in January). It's funny, each time I pick the Witcher III back up, I find it fun engaging with meaningful feeling side quests at first, but the more I play the quest structure becomes so repetitive it becomes grating.

The last chapters of the story are an absolute slog. I'm sorry game, if you throw out there in big letters, "THIS IS THE POINT OF NO RETURN", I expect the ending to be nigh. But not the Witcher III. When you reach the point of no return, The Isle of Mist, you've probably got 20-25 hours of game left including but not limited to:
· Finding Ciri
· Preparing to defend Kaer Moren
· Defending Kaer Moren from the Wild Hunt
· Going to a weird Medieval cult version of Burning Man
· Getting Revenge on a dude at Medieval Cult Burning Man
· Gathering the Sorceresses
· Traveling between planes of existence to talk to a guy into not helping big bad
· Preparing to take on the Wild Hunt
· Preparing the take on the Wild Hunt Skellige Edition
· Taking on the Wild Hunt
· Experiencing the Apocalypse
· Enjoying a walk in the snow with friends

It's TOO MUCH. If Cyberpunk 2077 does this, I fear I'm going to have another game I'll still by trying to finish in 2025 on the Xbox Series X Pro. I think I would have been much happier if the Witcher III had trimmed some of the content fat and focused on other aspects of the game like…"


after which I go off for a while on just how janky the Witcher III's final segment plays out. You can read the entire lengthy rant here if you care: https://www.resetera.com/threads/rt...ur-polish-game-developer.163686/post-37264201

At the end of the day, the experience left me with a bad taste so to speak. There was a ton of content, but I didn't feel engaged by most of it. I didn't enjoy the content because I felt I could have gotten more out of it had it been streamlined.

And that's why the main scenario of CP2077 is so focused. If you choose to, you can run straight to the end in no time. Or you can experience all the game has to offer.

So far I'm 24 hours into CP2077 and I'm really enjoying the side content and the world so i haven't rushed right to the end. But I'm glad people have the option to do so if that suits them.

If at any point I feel like I'm done with CP 2077, believe me, I'll beeline for the end ASAP.

If I may chime in about the "Point Of No Return" topic,
This is a comparison of the warnings displayed in both games:
sddssg.jpg

(2 from The Witcher 3 on the left, 1 from Cyberpunk 2077 on the right)

You can clearly see the words "some side quests" on the left, and "all unfinished Side Jobs and other activities like Gigs" on the right.
This means that Cyberpunk is trying to tell you you're near the end of the game, and The Witcher 3 is trying to tell you some big quest-chains(like Keira, the royal assassination, and the Skellige ruler) will no longer be available.
So I think you might have gotten the wrong impression from the warning in The Witcher 3, since it's notifying you of the end of Act II, and, as you've seen, there's a whole Act III after that.
After all, I've been searching for Ciri for dozens of hours, so finding her and then finishing the game right away would feel a bit weird to me.

tl;dr: The warnings before The Witcher 3's Isle of Mists do not imply the end of the game is nigh.
 

Nephtes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,550
If I may chime in about the "Point Of No Return" topic,
This is a comparison of the warnings displayed in both games:
sddssg.jpg

(2 from The Witcher 3 on the left, 1 from Cyberpunk 2077 on the right)

You can clearly see the words "some side quests" on the left, and "all unfinished Side Jobs and other activities like Gigs" on the right.
This means that Cyberpunk is trying to tell you you're near the end of the game, and The Witcher 3 is trying to tell you some big quest-chains(like Keira, the royal assassination, and the Skellige ruler) will no longer be available.
So I think you might have gotten the wrong impression from the warning in The Witcher 3, since it's notifying you of the end of Act II, and, as you've seen, there's a whole Act III after that.
After all, I've been searching for Ciri for dozens of hours, so finding her and then finishing the game right away would feel a bit weird to me.

tl;dr: The warnings before The Witcher 3's Isle of Mists do not imply the end of the game is nigh.

I will concede that apparently the message doesn't announce "the end is near". But I feel we've been conditioned in games that when you get one of these messages it's signaling "the end".

Regardless of that, I don't feel that takes away from my argument that the Witcher III is overlong to the point few feel the need to see Geralt's quest to the end, and I feel the low Trophy and Achievement % of people who have gotten to the end of the Witcher III back up my point.

I get everyone says CDPR had lied about a lot of things with regard to CP2077, but I don't believe CDPR's Patrick Mills was lying when he said "We do know the main story run in Cyberpunk 2077 is slightly shorter than the Witcher 3 because we got a lot of complaints about the Witcher 3's story just being too long."

I know, because I'm one of those complainers...
 

obeast

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
559
I will concede that apparently the message doesn't announce "the end is near". But I feel we've been conditioned in games that when you get one of these messages it's signaling "the end".

Regardless of that, I don't feel that takes away from my argument that the Witcher III is overlong to the point few feel the need to see Geralt's quest to the end, and I feel the low Trophy and Achievement % of people who have gotten to the end of the Witcher III back up my point.

I get everyone says CDPR had lied about a lot of things with regard to CP2077, but I don't believe CDPR's Patrick Mills was lying when he said "We do know the main story run in Cyberpunk 2077 is slightly shorter than the Witcher 3 because we got a lot of complaints about the Witcher 3's story just being too long."

I know, because I'm one of those complainers...

What is the disparity between the "finished the game" achievement % in TW3 and a generic mid-length game, though? I'm just wondering if the bitter truth is that most players don't finish most games, irrespective of their length.

For example, the trophy data in my Steam account says that ~25% of players finished TW3. But it also says that ~31% of players finished Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (a much shorter game - arguably too short). And that only ~22% of players finished the Witcher 2 (really short for an RPG, due to a big chunk of the game being split along an Act 2 choice).

Edit - just to drive the point home, Steam says that only ~55% of players have beaten *Portal*, which is a game that can be finished in a few hours.
 
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Nephtes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,550
What is the disparity between the "finished the game" achievement % in TW3 and a generic mid-length game, though? I'm just wondering if the bitter truth is that most players don't finish most games, irrespective of their length.

For example, the trophy data in my Steam account says that ~25% of players finished TW3. But it also says that ~31% of players finished Deus Ex: Mankind Divided (a much shorter game - arguably too short). And that only ~22% of players finished the Witcher 2 (really short for an RPG, due to a big chunk of the game being split along an Act 2 choice).

Edit - just to drive the point home, Steam says that only ~55% of players have beaten *Portal*, which is a game that can be finished in a few hours.

I don't game on Steam so I'm only going by the Xbox Statistics I have access to. And I have to say you're right...number of players who finish a game are surprisingly low across the board for all lengths of experiences.

On your suggestion I did some digging in in games I own and here are the % of players who started the games and finished on Xbox:
The Witcher III: 15.10%
DOOM 2016: 18.62%
DOOM Eternal: 20%
Wolfenstein II: 27.3%
Control: 16%
Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice: 16%
Kingdom Hearts III: 13.51%
Star Wars Fallen Order: 34.57%

Honestly I'm shocked with how low these numbers are, especially Hellblade, that game is so short. But I'm also shocked with how high Fallen Order and Wolfenstein II are compared to everything else. Especially considering both games are pretty lengthy experiences and Fallen Order has some challenge to it...

What did those games do differently that caused more people to finish those?
 

obeast

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
559
Honestly I'm shocked with how low these numbers are, especially Hellblade, that game is so short. But I'm also shocked with how high Fallen Order and Wolfenstein II are compared to everything else. Especially considering both games are pretty lengthy experiences and Fallen Order has some challenge to it...

What did those games do differently that caused more people to finish those?

Yeah, that's just bizarre. It's not like Fallen Order just kinda finishes itself for you - in addition to the combat challenge, there's all the wandering around navigating the levels. I don't even have a good speculative explanation. Maybe Fallen Order and Wolf II are hitting some kind of sweet spot where 1) the story seems important to finish for players (as opposed to a very gameplay-focused franchise like Doom), and 2) they're not that long? I dunno.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,007
I don't game on Steam so I'm only going by the Xbox Statistics I have access to. And I have to say you're right...number of players who finish a game are surprisingly low across the board for all lengths of experiences.

On your suggestion I did some digging in in games I own and here are the % of players who started the games and finished on Xbox:
The Witcher III: 15.10%
DOOM 2016: 18.62%
DOOM Eternal: 20%
Wolfenstein II: 27.3%
Control: 16%
Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice: 16%
Kingdom Hearts III: 13.51%
Star Wars Fallen Order: 34.57%

Honestly I'm shocked with how low these numbers are, especially Hellblade, that game is so short. But I'm also shocked with how high Fallen Order and Wolfenstein II are compared to everything else. Especially considering both games are pretty lengthy experiences and Fallen Order has some challenge to it...

What did those games do differently that caused more people to finish those?

Fallen Order is a SW game so people are way more invested in finishing. I can't explain Wolfenstein 2.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
8,634
It's TOO MUCH. If Cyberpunk 2077 does this, I fear I'm going to have another game I'll still by trying to finish in 2025 on the Xbox Series X Pro. I think I would have been much happier if the Witcher III had trimmed some of the content fat and focused on other aspects of the game like…"
Cyberpunk doesn't do that. When you reach the point of no return you maybe have couple of hours of game left.

Looked up completion rate on Steam if anyone's curious
Witcher 3 = 26.7%
Cyberpunk 2077 = 28.6%
 

Nephtes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,550
Cyberpunk doesn't do that. When you reach the point of no return you maybe have couple of hours of game left.

Looked up completion rate on Steam if anyone's curious
Witcher 3 = 26.7%
Cyberpunk 2077 = 28.6%

To be fair, the portion of quote you quoted was me quoting myself from June of 2020 before we knew about Cyberpunk's point of no return ...
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
8,634
That's interesting. Means they cut the story length by a significant amount to achieve (so far) a 2% increase in completions.
It worked as far as that goes, didn't it? 2% increase is probably a huge number already given how much the game is selling and it's only been out for less than 2 months. Alot of people will be putting it on hold for patches too.

To be fair, the quote you quoted was me quoting myself from June of 2020 before we knew about Cyberpunk's point of no return ...
Oh I meant it more as a heads up thinking you still have to finish it. My mistake.
 

obeast

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
559
It worked as far as that goes, didn't it? 2% increase is probably a huge number already given how much the game is selling and it's only been out for less than 2 months. Alot of people will be putting it on hold for patches too.

You also wonder if that percentage would be much lower if the game were actually as long as TW3, given that the gaming audience seems on average significantly less enthralled by Cyberpunk, even on PC (where I'd argue it's a pretty solid game, all in all).
 

Patchy

Member
Oct 29, 2017
237
The OST for this game is just incredible - particularly the ambient stuff produced by P.T. Adamczyk.

I finished the game a while ago but keep finding myself thinking about the characters. I really hope there is a sequel and they can fix most of the issues caused by terrible executive management, because there is some gold in this game and I want more of it.

 
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BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,007
The OST for this game is just incredible - particularly the ambient stuff produced by P.T. Adamczyk.

I finished the game a while ago but keep finding myself thinking about the characters. I really hope there is a sequel and they can fix most of the issues caused by terrible executive management, because there is some gold in this game and I want more of it.



Definitely, which is something DLC can help fix. I really do dislike the lack of actual role-playing, likely as a result of inexperience and lack of time (after multiple reboots). But, they still manage to provide the player with multiple impactful endings.

I do have an issue with the way the endings are presented though as for such an important choice its obscured as much as TW3's endings. However, the end result of TW3 being obscured and actually based on your past actions towards Ciri and certain side quests made sense for that story. With 2077, the ending purely has to do with

the choice you make before the final mission. And given that the game is basically "Existentialism The Game," the end choice is basically asking you what you value in life, what you believe life means. Thus, to obscure that is really weird as its something the player should be able to define and make the appropriate choice. I know for my first playthrough I very much did NOT want to give Johnny control for the last mission, especially since Johnny's plan was the same as his old plan in his past life that failed. I wasn't about to go with the same losing plan twice. So, I called Panam.

However, the Path of Glory ending is far more in-tune with what I wanted for my character than the Panam ending where I sail off into the night with a bunch of nomads. Screw that.
 

Firefly

Member
Jul 10, 2018
8,634
The OST for this game is just incredible - particularly the ambient stuff produced by P.T. Adamczyk.

I finished the game a while ago but keep finding myself thinking about the characters. I really hope there is a sequel and they can fix most of the issues caused by terrible executive management, because there is some gold in this game and I want more of it.


Its amazing.
Does anyone know of the piece that plays during that Sinnerman sequence?
 

Soriku

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,905
Did they forget to balance the game on hard mode, or what am I missing? Seems like every enemy is a damage sponge, while you die in a few hits, if not one hit if you get by a grenade or something.

I just dropped down to normal which seems more reasonable.
 

flipswitch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,959
So it rained for what I believe was the second time in my 30hr playtime. Playing on PS5, the rain just looks awful and appears to not run at 60fps like the game, but at something slower. Anyone else noticed this?
 

Alvis

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,232
Spain
Is the AMD SMT fix still required if I want the game to use all the threads on my 5800X? Or did they remove the arbitrary limitation already?
 

FisherTea

Member
May 24, 2020
592
I would like to discuss Keanu Reeves as Johnny Silverhand.
On paper, this is awesome. In practice, I find Keanu sounds bored in probably 60% of his line delivery. Like he Peter Dinklaged his way through the voice sessions...

Is this a voice direction issue or did having to record so much dialogue (many times twice for male and female V) just weigh Reeves down over time?

Like some of the times he sounds legitimately great, but other times it's just not good, and it really stands out in what I would suggest is otherwise a very well voice acted game from every major NPC I've come across so far.

I felt there was more emotion and energy from Reeves on stage at the Xbox E3 Cyberpunk 2077 reveal than what I've seen so far in the game.

And it's not like Keanu can't act. So many of his lines would come across so much better if he had the kind of tone or emotion in his voice say from his performance as John Wick.

If I had been the voice acting director who had to deal with Reeves after every take I'd just play back the line from John Wick, "Yeah, I'm thinking I'm back!" and tell him "alright, once more, but like this...."



I think they've said this is by design. Barely anyone finished the Witcher III's story based on Achievement/Trophy percentage and CDPR wanted to make sure most people would see the end of Cyberpunk 2077.

Considering the Witcher III took me 5 years to complete from the date I started the game to the date I finished, I think I'm glad they took this approach in CP 2077.

When I did a RTTP thread on Witcher III I bemoaned how when I got to the "POINT OF NO RETURN" there was actually something like 15 hours of story gameplay left. It felt like such an awful drawn out slog, that I felt would have been better served by a tighter narrative.

I feel like his performance got substantially better later on the game. I know his role was supposedly expanded a lot later in development, I wonder if that's part of the reason why.
 

Nephtes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,550
I feel like his performance got substantially better later on the game. I know his role was supposedly expanded a lot later in development, I wonder if that's part of the reason why.

I've played another 12 hours since my initial Johnny Silverhand impressions and admittedly, the performance is growing on me.

_____________________________________________________________

Unrelated note, I finally hit street cred 20.
Time to replace V's arms with some new chrome! Skin colored chrome anyway...

I'm having a hard time deciding between gorilla arms which seem like they have a lot more useful functions but are kind of obtrusively ugly on female V vs mono wire arms which seem super cool but useless for my handguns and hacking play style. 🤔

The arm cannon rocket launcher seems like it barely makes a visual difference to V's character model and I'd probably forget to use it. Change my mind.
 

Zaber

Alt account
Banned
Sep 11, 2019
906
I've played another 12 hours since my initial Johnny Silverhand impressions and admittedly, the performance is growing on me.

_____________________________________________________________

Unrelated note, I finally hit street cred 20.
Time to replace V's arms with some new chrome! Skin colored chrome anyway...

I'm having a hard time deciding between gorilla arms which seem like they have a lot more useful functions but are kind of obtrusively ugly on female V vs mono wire arms which seem super cool but useless for my handguns and hacking play style. 🤔

The arm cannon rocket launcher seems like it barely makes a visual difference to V's character model and I'd probably forget to use it. Change my mind.
I've used the mono wires so much. They can stun groups of enemies and bosses, and they're as close as it gets to a whip.