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Transistor

The Walnut King
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,119
Washington, D.C.
Epileptic PSA: There are reports that animations and flashing lights in this game can cause seizures. Read this article for more information


Why is there controversy surrounding CD Projekt Red and Cyberpunk 2077?

CD Projekt Red has a history of transphobia. This is well documented at this point and not a matter of debate. Due to this context there is particular concern about transphobic or insensitive content in Cyberpunk 2077 itself, such as the decision to tie gender to voice in the character creator, and trans fetishization in illustrations in the game—and these are just examples from prerelease footage. Additionally, there have been concerns about racist imagery and stereotyping. This article goes into depth about some of these issues.


What incidents of transphobia have occurred surrounding the game and the company, and why are they hurtful?

This list will be updated over time as more examples come to light, especially as the game releases and more content is uncovered. If you wish to have something added to this list, please send me a DM and get my attention.


Why is ResetEra allowing an official thread for this game?

There has been a lot of discussion about whether there should even be an official thread for Cyberpunk 2077, and many points of view were considered for this decision. Ultimately, a thread like this can serve as a platform for minority concerns to be aired and discussed respectfully, and given appropriate attention. We've also heard from minority members, including some trans members, who have asked for a space where they can talk about the game without needing to worry about trolling and bigoted posting. We expect all posters in the thread to extend the consideration and empathy to give them that space. We will be moderating as strictly as necessary to make sure they do.


What can I do to help fight transphobia?

Transphobia exists in many aspects of our lives. From casual discrimination such as the continuous misuse of a person's preferred pronouns, to more serious ramifications such as housing being denied, legal rights being taken away, and being discriminated in the legal system. Every trans person either has experienced transphobia in their lives, or will experience transphobia at some point.

Moreover, transphobia is a systematic issue that is present in every level of our society. Politicians fight to take away our rights. Celebrities use coded language and religious justifications, if not outright hostility, in order to continue to deny our existence. Media continues to portray us as the butt of a joke, or acts like we're something to be fascinated by, rather than treated with respect.

Actions speak louder than words: Become active in your local politics, donate to transgender causes, stand up for these issues wherever they arise, and if you know transgender people in your life be there for them and support them.


Here are some pro-trans organizations around the world where you can make a donation and show your support
  • For those of you in the US, The Trevor Project is one of the leading LGBT organizations. They are dedicated to crisis intervention and suicide prevention for people who are in need of support, love, and care.
  • For those of you in the UK, Mermaids is dedicated to the support of transgender, non-binary, and gender-diverse children, young adults, and their families. They have been around since 1995, and have been one of the most vocal voices speaking out against transphobia in the UK, including showing the dangers that transphobia imposes upon our youth.
  • If you would like to donate to CDPR's native country of Poland, you can find the Trans-Fuzja Foundation website here. The Trans-Fuzja Foundation has been around since 2008, and is dedicated to the support of transgender people in Poland in many aspects of life and society, including politics.
We are your friends. We are your family members. We're your coworkers. We're the people you meet on the street. We're the essential workers who keep society running in a pandemic. We're everywhere. We're not some sort of freak or joke, and we're not going away.

I want to give major thanks to Uzzy for lending her talent, time, and effort in putting together graphics and material for this official thread. Without her, this would not have been possible on such short notice. I would also like to give a shout out and thanks to Kyuuji for allowing me to use images and links from her own thread for this posts.
 

phaze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,361
Photomode pics from Gamersyde

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Cyberpunk 2077 enfin prêt - Gamersyde
Never mess with these but it does look cool and well done.
 

BloodHound

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,998
MadQueen said up to where she's in the game, she hasn't come across a single naked guy or a one night stand even if she was playing a female V. Even if you could, there is male nudity censorship because CDPR couldn't handle objectifying or sexualising male characters. The dead male characters who are going to be chopped up by the Scavengers gang wear underwear while in the bath with ice. There appear to be no male sex workers or go go dancers. Female characters on the other hand, no problem!
(timestamped review to relevant bit)

"That's not even realistic for our world nowadays. What happened in the future, did they go backward? I was expecting 50:50 because in the dark future, everybody is exploited. But the double standard in this game when it comes to the treatment of different genders is even retrogressive for the real world 2020, let alone for a futuristic setting that pretends to be believable like Cyberpunk 2077." - Mad Queen

Almost like the whole "it's dystopia, sexual objectification is ok" argument was rubbish the whole time. The one-sided objectification is just classic sexism and hetero male wish fulfillment.

Not surprising. This game always seemed like it was aimed at how conservative men would view a dystopian future. It's in line with other media as well. Tits and vagina galore in Altered Carbon but not a single dick. Well....I guess that permeates throughout all media. Spartacus is one of the few pieces of premium media I've watched where they gave equal treatment to sexual organs....to horrific results.
 

MrMysterio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
701
Fair point that, as muzzo says above though – immature in either sense. I was thinking more of teens of yesteryear as opposed to directly the zoomers and below we've seen come up recently. I can't shake this weird thing where it seems like there's two contrasting halves to the game. There's a lot of design elements that work well and seems they had a decent hold of but then the final half is just juvenile crap smashed into it. It's like there's a persistent dissonance there.

Yes!! I feel 100% that way. Because some of the design looks really sophisticated and just intriguing - but it also looks like that team lost out in the end when the team that went for the sweet GTA-GenXer nostalgia tribute money rolled into the office.
 

Ont

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,050
No story is limited by the genre, and no one is saying that it should be. And notice how I said "That this game just uses the genre for set dressing and nothing meaningful is simply wasteful," not that the story is wasteful. It means they had a big chance to use an incredible genre that provides social commentary and didn't utilize that key aspect of it. That is wasteful. It's just style with no meaning.

Video games have always provided some kind of commentary. Even the very first Sonic game is meant to discuss how industrialization was affecting the environment (words by its creator). People can ignore that if they want, but it adds so much to it. Otherwise, it's shallow. And if that makes people happy enough, good for them - except when they ignore the transphobic aspects of it, of course. But everyone who became interested in the genre because of its social impact can absolutely express that disappointment.

My posts were addressed to people who were claiming that with this genre you absolutely have to address certain themes. Whereas I think you should be free to explore whatever storylines and themes you want in this specific fictional world. Whether that story works or does not work, that is for the reviewers and gamers to decide.

I think there is a divergence between different people and their expectations for the game and the genre. There certainly was a promise here to stay true to the CP roleplaying games and source material.

Whether there was a similar promise towards Cyberpunk genre as a whole is open for debate, and I would argue that the source material itself was a priority over any other genre themes.

And yes, people are free to express disappointment.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I remember them saying this about body modifications, which seem to everywhere in the game?

As for Cyberpunk themes. I am not sure if there is a complete alignment between the themes from the CP RPG games and the genre as a whole. The RPG games certainly are on the lighter side. I might expect different themes than you do.



It would be, and I have not blamed anyone else. If the story sucks, it is their fault alone.



All I am saying is that placing your game in Cyperpunk genre does not come with previously agreed themes that you absolutely have to address in a meaningful way.

I think most CP RPG fans will judge them on how true they were to the RPG games and source material, rather than the genre.

Obviously I am not talking about legal obligations. I am only saying that your choice of genre does come with a requirement to discuss social issues in a meaningful way. It is great if you can do it, but it is a video game.



I fully agree.
You're arguing your point as if CDPR hadn't already defined themes they said they'd include in their game. It's not about my expected themes within the genre. They already defined them, and what reviewers are saying is that they failed to actually accomplish those narrative goals.

You've shifted the blame to people criticizing that failure by labeling them as naive for expecting what was being described and advertised throughout the dev cycle.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,949
Not to pick on anyone here because it's been trending well beyond Resetera, but I'm starting to see the phrase "style over substance" -- which is associated with the tabletop version of Cyberpunk -- used to shield Cyberpunk 2077 from criticisms leveled toward its approach to themes (especially in the social context), world building, storytelling and the like. Aspects which many critics (at least the critics who are actually interested in discussing these things) have called safe and stylish at best. I'd really like to get ahead of it, because I feel like if we keep going down this path, we're going to get to Ubisoft levels of "our overtly militaristic game is completely apolitical," and that ain't it.

It's true that this "style over substance" thing is a direct quote from the pen-and-paper RPG from which Cyberpunk 2077 is licensed. So let's look at this quote directly. Here it is from the second edition of Cyberpunk 2020:




I want to get right to point, so let's look right at the heart of this without even considering how a creative team might adapt a tabletop RPG from 1988 in the year 2020 or address said year's massively different social contexts via the container of an innately dystopian genre centered around oppression and transhumanism (regardless of whether or not you think that the bulk of cyberpunk fiction is thematically shallow or that CD Projekt Red -- who I've been told since at least 2015 staff apparently brilliant writers? -- should have risen to the occasion).

So not even considering that (valid) conversation, this Cyberpunk 2020 guideline is clearly directed at the player, not the world. Nowhere can I find any evidence of R. Talsorian Games or Mike Pondsmith (who said in 2019 that "everything is political," by the way) directing or encouraging game masters to make sure the campaigns hosted in the world of Cyberpunk are safe, politics-free and wholly stylish over substantive. Nowhere does this rule say, "don't distract your players with ~politics~" (and mind you, this is 1988 well before we decided that human rights were "political"). If we're using this as a defense of CDPR making a safe, nonconfrontational, predictable game world, narrative or thematic underpinning -- one that doesn't seem interested in recognizing the context in which it exists, in which it has very publicly and loudly existed for going on a decade now -- my view is that CDPR may have failed in their role as, to keep the analogy going, game masters.

But my personal view aside, in no way does this rule from Cyberpunk 2020 excuse Cyberpunk 2077 from having a substantive narrative or substantive, relevant (or at the very least, self-aware) thematic content.

Almost like the defense was always bullshit. Like, look up any Mike Pondsmith video and he talks about the politics of the genre and the TTP. If you're making anything within this genre then it should have substantive political and societal critique. That is Cyberpunk, not mirror shades or neon lights in the rain.
 
Oct 27, 2017
858
Anyone who has the most recent update on XSX notice more bugs since this latest patch? Worried that maybe there's a save game compatibility issue or something? Can any devs tell me how likely that would be or if its just something that pops up in Bethesda games because of world permanence?

Prior to yesterdays patch (but after the major 43gb patch from Friday) I didn't really have any major bugs- since the latest I have had missed mission dialogues, weird HUD glitches, NPC's glitching, etc. Hope that there is another patch on the way that will address this stuff, because missing dialogue is gamebreaking for me in a game like this....
 

Riddler

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,779
Ughhh...Best Buy kept teasing me about picking it up today! Texted me twice Both times saying we got it but it's a mistake and come back Thursday. This game looks so amazing!
 

Antiax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,652
That really fucking sucks.

CDProject can't handle male nudity now? CD stands for censoring dick now?

What's gonna be their creative excuse this time for changing it from the demo?

I suppose it's strictly legal and business decision - they didn't have enough time to make different models for different regions as in some countries male genitals might block the game from release.
 

ThereAre4Lights

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,857
Not surprising. This game always seemed like it was aimed at how conservative men would view a dystopian future. It's in line with other media as well. Tits and vagina galore in Altered Carbon but not a single dick. Well....I guess that permeates throughout all media. Spartacus is one of the few pieces of premium media I've watched where they gave equal treatment to sexual organs....to horrific results.

Altered Carbon Season 1 had male frontal nudity. S2 had shit though.

Disappointed at this aspect, but not surprised given TW3's constant female nudity.
 

Faenix1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,114
Canada
That really fucking sucks.

CDProject can't handle male nudity now? CD stands for censoring dick now?

What's gonna be their creative excuse this time for changing it from the demo?

Does Microsoft/Sony/ the rating board allow nudity below the belt? I remember the PS4 version of DMC5 had a bit of censorship due to someones butt.
 
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Zellia

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,769
UK
That really fucking sucks.

CDProject can't handle male nudity now? CD stands for censoring dick now?

What's gonna be their creative excuse this time for changing it from the demo?
'We wanted to show a society where sexism is still a huge issue and objectification of women is rampant, and- ok hahahaha we're just messing with you guys. We know you don't wanna see dick, shut up and buy our game lol'
 

smocaine

Member
Oct 30, 2019
2,010
I mean, it is running PS4 settings, no?

On PC, I hope there's settings to turn up NPC density with extra-CPU power on tap, or at least console commands/mods.
 

Bansai

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,223
Quarantining obviously. Fr tho, leaked gameplay showed that there's only people in the shopping center areas and other places, definitely not as dense as pre-release footage.

Yuuup, there are densely populated areas, but for such a supposedly bustling megalopolis it is very weird that the traffic is so low, no matter the time of day.


From what I read it runs at 60 as default.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285