I mean the other place where I saw that phrase was when people were talking about boycotting THQ Nordic. These people think they're clever but they ain't.
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Cyberpunk 2077 looks amazing, but I’m conflicted about supporting CD Projekt Red with the doubt they’ve cast around their social stances.
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I mean the other place where I saw that phrase was when people were talking about boycotting THQ Nordic. These people think they're clever but they ain't.
Admittedly I have not kept track of every single instance but serious questions. Have they committed any crimes? If so then I would draw the line. But people are allowed their opinions, however atrocious. I'm no white knight, just a guy who likes to play good games.
You're missing the forrest from the trees or you just don't understand or didn't read the OP.
This isn't a case of a company having bigoted people work for them, this is the company making multiple public offensive media messages and constantly dodging responsibility for their words and actions.
The company has outwardly marketed their products using the belittlement of trans issues as the selling point. Not a person in the company, the company itself (and the company GOG, which is closely related to CDPR)
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissing Transphobia and Dismissive Behavior Over Multiple Posts in this Thread
Right? Life is complicated and relationships are too. You have to learn to work with and around people you don't always agree with sometimes. And there are moral compromises everywhere--environmentally, culturally, politically, etc.
I actually wonder if it's maybe the part of the country that people live in that makes the difference. I certainly couldn't function where I live in the deep South if I took a lot of the stances people take. And I think a lot of people would view me as self righteous. I pick my battles. Occassionally, if I think someone is open, I might say something to someone who uses a gay slur, I certainly say something to my students when I hear them doing it. But I've certainly learned to live and let live and let larger zeitgeist take shape. The progress on LGBT issues in the last 10 years is astounding to me. And I don't think that progress has much if anything to do with boycotting people with differing views.
i thought the whole point of a market was that people signal what they want from companies by exchanging money for the products they think are best?
always silly to me how alleged market proponents don't like when the mechanisms of the market are used to push for social change
if not buying a video game over the framerate is valid - which it is - then certainly not buying a game because of poor representation of real world issues is too
always silly to me how alleged market proponents don't like when the mechanisms of the market are used to push for social change
if not buying a video game over the framerate is valid - which it is - then certainly not buying a game because of poor representation of real world issues is too
oh ok you're just an idiot.
Thread bringing out the best and brightest
I guess we just disagree here. I saw all those GOG tweets when they happened. I'm just saying, and I don't mean this to be dismissive, if I took offense at that, I literally would have to disassociate with half of my friends. I probably would have had to stop working for the college I work for. There is shit that happens that I really disagree with a lot of the time. But I pick my battles and try to find the important ones.
Like I said, I'm an open gay man, and I have friends that are fundementalist Baptist. We clearly don't agree on that issue. But we are still friends. And I think that is not even close to someone hinting at having different politics. That is someone who literally straight up has the opinion that being gay is immoral/wrong.
Idk, I thought the depth of the apology was in pretty good proportion to the wrongfulness of the tweet.
I know a lot of digital ink has been spilt to convince people that a "sorry you were offended" style response is, always and in every case, insincere and a new wrong until itself, but I don't buy that -- it is a perfectly appropriate response in some cases. There is a difference between transphobic jokes and jokes that aren't sensitive to trans feelings. There is a difference between trans people being the butt of a joke, and a joke that puns on a popular issue im the culture,and incidentally impacts trans people. Those differences are especially important when we're talking about members of different cultures who might not have the same sensitivities or exposures to our ways of thinking.
I'm not saying the tweet was entirely innocent (I don't think it was), but I don't think we can say it was certainly malicious either. Reasonable minds should be able to differ on this.
You might want a more fulsome apology, but I'm not sure you are owed it. Of course, you also don't owe them your money either.
You picking your battles doesn't mean you get to tell others how to pick theirs.
my opinion is that this will be "wow, cool robot" the game
i might be pleasantly surprised, but i don't have the highest of hope's right now - gonna wait and see how the game turns out
it is nice that the game will have queer relationships according to an interview, but who knows how the execution will be
i might be pleasantly surprised, but i don't have the highest of hope's right now - gonna wait and see how the game turns out
it is nice that the game will have queer relationships according to an interview, but who knows how the execution will be
No but I thought the point of this thread was to talk about how/why we justify the positions we take on these kinds of issues? I mean, that's what we are talking about here, right?
I'm enjoying 20 post accounts coming out of the woodworks to tell people not to be offended and "you aren't owed a better apology"
This is a great post.
There are more games than I have have time to play. If I have to use a company's behaviour on social media as a tie breaker to decide what gets my precious time and money, I will. I don't understand people getting all up in their feelings over how other people decide what games to play.
Well fucking said. People also have to understanding that although the LGBT movement has been around, it's been making great strides, but these things take time. People don't just wake up and change overnight. I live in NYC so it's pretty open here. I have gays friends and had a trans client. I just choose to leave politics out of my gaming hobby.
I totally understand boycotts based on morality, but you were implying that CDPR "represents bigotry," and I'm curious why. Do you think CDPR's founders think jokes like that are okay and that they're covering for their social media? I don't know who calls the shots at the company or would be responsible for that employee.
Not trying to tell you you shouldn't boycott for whatever reason, just curious.
They didn't say "Sorry you're offended," they said "Sorry to those offended." With a specific tone, you can interpret that as sarcastic or dismissive, but I don't see a reason to do that, personally.
User banned (permanent): hostility, trolling, defending transphobia over a series of posts, previous severe infractions
i'm an idiot? How old are you? I'm betting you were just an itch in your daddy's pant when I stsrted gsming.... Am I right. When you have no response, insult. Looks like threads is bringing them out is right.
Who you're friends are and what they think of you has has nothing to do with giving money to a company who has on multiple occasions has belittled trans issues.
I don't know why you keep bringing up that you're gay and have friends who think you're going to hell because of that, literally has zero to do with talking about boycotting a company due to their consistently shit social media.
I mean if your threshold is literal crimes then I guess you'll never have a problem with almost any entertainment spreading intolerance. I understand we all need to make concessions to exist in this world. The world isn't black and white, but this is like what the third or fourth example of this company being shitty in the past year? A year that has seen a lot of garbage thrown at the LGBT community. At this point there are enough good games coming from other places that I can pass on this one. You're not obligated to feel the same way, but seeing people say that it is crazy to feel like CDPR has alienated them just feels like they are unwilling to empathize.
Maybe that one social media guy won a competition to design an in-game poster?
Maybe it's actually a modular sex robot?
Maybe the artist's hand slipped and accidentally drew a penis and nobody else noticed?
Maybe there's a whole subplot involving sausage smuggling sidequests in order to outwit the evil, future Vegan Police?
Maybe, maybe, maybe...
We should give them the benefit of the doubt and keep inventing maybes until we have more context.
Maybe it's actually a modular sex robot?
Maybe the artist's hand slipped and accidentally drew a penis and nobody else noticed?
Maybe there's a whole subplot involving sausage smuggling sidequests in order to outwit the evil, future Vegan Police?
Maybe, maybe, maybe...
We should give them the benefit of the doubt and keep inventing maybes until we have more context.
"i'm just a guy who likes games", is basically as pointless of a response you can get when talking about anything relating to social/political issues intersecting with games. And you asked if the company committed crimes as being your threshold for morality.
Congrats, you like games.
I'm old enough to not call myself a gamer, so how old are you?
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Hey uhhh, have you guys been discussing this really transphobic ad that appears to exist within the game's world?
I'm not even going to embed the tweet because the image is really not cool. Here it is.
Can anyone confirm if this is real? Have you guys already been discussing it? Seeing the tweet actually blew my mind, so I'm admittedly rushing to post this because holy shit.
I'm not even going to embed the tweet because the image is really not cool. Here it is.
Can anyone confirm if this is real? Have you guys already been discussing it? Seeing the tweet actually blew my mind, so I'm admittedly rushing to post this because holy shit.
somehow you still look worse than those throwing around insults so
You're talking about how you're friends with people who believe in trying to deny your rights and acting like people have to do it as well. I had more written but someone else already responded to you better than I could.
I assume it's not really being discussed here right now because a thread was made regarding it and locked (at least temporarily).
We have, but the discussion got sidetracked by old, tired arguments of "the company is made up of lots of people" and "how can you function in society if you don't support bigot game developers?"
Here is "my" post about the subject:
"Sorry to all those offended" is literally just the plural of "Sorry you're offended"
I think the multiple instances of saying bigoted things and making jokes out of trans rights multiple times (and advocating for GamerGate by proxy in a another tweet), and having zero real responses from the higher ups tells me at best they don't care about what their company has outwardly represented.
Literally all they had to do was just take like a small paragraph outlining why what they did was wrong and that they understand why people were upset.
The most minimum amount of effort was all that it took to remedy the issue, and that was even too much for them.
Now we just need someone to say "As a gay trans black man what CDPR said is actually totally fine and y'all are wrong to be offended" and I'll have completed my dogwhistle bingo.
Absolutely fucking hollering at this sentence being used unironically
Not once did i say iit's crazy to boycott them. I totally respect thwt. I just said why I disagreed. I DO empathize. I live in nyc and have plenty gay friends and also had a trans client. But EVERY one of them would tell you they don't want no one sticking up for them. They are proud AF! They would not give it a second thought about me buying the game. Hell a coupke of them are gamers and buying game also.
Well i gotta go. Sorry I triggered some of yall. Didn't mean to. Ttyl.
Very busy at work all day, so I hadn't been able to read Era much at all and then when a friend linked me to this I literally came here assuming there had to be a thread and only saw this one. Thanks for the info; hopefully it's unlocked since this seems pretty worthy of discussion.
Like frankly I don't know how we can say "obviously they learned their lesson, they apologized" when there is such clear evidence to the contrary in the game world itself. The two conversations are pretty linked.
Dude insulted me for no reason. How am I trolling? Seriously. Wow.
It got side tracked because no one knows if said person is trans and the outrage was unfounded.
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Forgot to say, I read your article, and it's pretty on point as to why some people think this game will be a failure to the Cyberpunk genre, and why it's hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. I hope you keep writing about it, though, and give your perspective of the game when it releases.I wrote about the first demo's racism after I saw it behind closed doors a year ago:
I'm all-in on Cyberpunk 2077, but one element of the E3 demo disappointed me | RPG Site
Cyberpunk 2077's E3 demo was amazing, but one element of it was particularly jarring.www.rpgsite.net
And given that they straight up killed the character I talk about in the trailer they decided to show at the biggest gaming event of the year, I'm even more disappointed. Especially considering that, after the demo, we were given sheets to write feedback on and I was honest with mine. I can't support this game and it will take a herculean effort for it to somehow convince me of giving it the benefit of the doubt after the racism and transphobia. I'm thoroughly not ready for all the worship the game will get in spite of how it's already alienated people of color and trans people. I'm not trans but I am queer, and I haven't felt a game feel so exclusionary to people like me, like, ever.
Edit: Not to mention that one (1) tweet I made about this in the midst of all the E3 excitement got me several idiot nerds attacking me in my notifs and calling me a moronic bitch + acting like they knew more than an actual press person. Lmao. Because that's the kind of community that's been encouraged.
Gay, Trans... talking for them, saying he triggered people!
Get this man a prize
Are you serious right now?
You should probably go back to the Gamefaqs board.
I don't see why you don't see the connection there. It has to do with the larger position of how ideologically pure you try to be in your interactions (economic or personal). I guarantee you if you took some of the stuff 90% of us bought in the last week even, and looked into the culture/politics surrounding it, you'd find some stuff that would be pretty horrific--horrible working conditions, child labor, animal cruelty, environmental catastrophes and violations. And yet most of us still buy those products. Are those lesser issues than someone at company's tweeting habits?
I'm not making an argument for nihilism or just throwing your hands up. I just try to keep level headed about this stuff. I was concerned enough, for example, about animal well fare and the environmental politics around beef, for example, that I became vegetarian about a decade ago. But I recognize other people aren't willing to make that compromise. It's complicated what we decide to act on and what don't, but it definitely isn't black and white.
Like I said earlier, you pick your battles and compromises. And for me, boycotting a company due to handful of bad tweets/joke don't rank because I don't think it's possible to live my life to that level of ideological purity.
Now that is not to say I don't think it was worth calling out or talking about. When someone says something / makes a bad joke about something, shedding light on the problems is a good thing (if handled the right way--in my view it can do more harm than good when it comes off as a self righteous crusade that might make us feel better, but makes the actual situation worse and creates more resentment). But don't really think someone making some bad tweets justifies more than calling it out. Because I don't know how to function in a way that isn't blatantly hypocritical if I say, boycot one company because someone there made some bad tweets, but then obvliviously buy a bunch of products that are created in what I consider to be much worse conditions. I try to reserve boycotting (economic) /cutting people (social) off for really extreme breaches, elsewise I'd go crazy and alienate myself from pretty much everything given the part of the country I live in.
Seems exactly like a ridiculous ad I would expect some fictitious soda company from a cyberpunk future about body modification where nobody gives a shit what you identify as to make?
Oh damn that's embarrassing if you're halfway through life and still calling yourself a gamer and talking like a 13 year old in a CS:S match
The person doesn't have to identify as trans -- they can't, in fact, as they are a fictional creation entirely made up by the game's designers who chose everything about how they're presented, so there is no such thing as their chosen identity -- for the phrase "Mix It Up" over someone femme presenting with a clearly visible penis to seem pretty uncool, given the context of the company it's coming from. If they actually had a history of good trans representation and awareness of such concerns, I'm sure people would give it the benefit of the doubt. Instead they have precisely the opposite. It's absurd to pretend the image exists in a void.
Yeah I'd like to know why, exactly.
The mods didn't post their reasoning, which they absolutely should.
Is this game not allowed to be critiqued for the heap of edgelord shit that it so clearly is?
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