Cyberpunk 2077 Dev Team Will Work Extra Long Hours After Latest Delay

[robhans]

Being in Poland, this is not suprising. If You work less than 60h a weak You are considered lazy. You should see everyone shock when i said that i dont want to work 12h a day everyday. And if You are single? Well, You live in your job because "you dont have any responsibility at home"
Add to that, that 1000$ in Poland is considered good salary (median salary is like 600$) and Polish devs earn Polish money, do yeah, working for Cdpr is a mistake.

And knowing how companies work in Poland, i cant realy say anything bad about CEO. At those position those guys dont have live what do every. They are at work 24/7.
Management and heads - those are often the worst and are doing nothing.

 

[Se_7_eN]

Are you working 100+ hour workweeks? Are you starving yourself or skipping bathroom breaks because you're afraid of turning in something too late? Is the cost of living, paying rent/bills/etc. relative to your mental health? Not everyone has it as good as you, and it is well-documented that crunch is not only common, but overwhelmingly negative. Anecdotes aside, I'm sure there are plenty of smaller (hell, maybe even some larger) studios that have figured out a way to have good work-life balance and also not only consider the fiscal aspects of the commercial product being made in the first place. But in the end, if a company has more work to be completed by a certain date, and said work cannot be completed in a standard 40 hour workweek, either hire more people or reduce the workload (by delaying the game further).

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WTF are you talking about?

I'm sorry, but the extremities in this post are more humorous than anything... If you're starving and pissing yourself, that is on you. The studio didn't do that, let alone crunch.

 

[PMS341]

WTF are you talking about?

I'm sorry, but the extremities in this post are more humorous than anything... If you're starving and pissing yourself, that is on you. The studio didn't do that, let alone crunch.

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Ah, so victim blaming. Neat.

 

[Kyuuji]

Being in Poland, this is not suprising. If You work less than 60h a weak You are considered lazy. You should see everyone shock when i said that i dont want to work 12h a day everyday. And if You are single? Well, You live in your job because "you dont have any responsibility at home"
Add to that, that 1000$ in Poland is considered good salary (median salary is like 600$) and Polish devs earn Polish money, do yeah, working for Cdpr is a mistake.

And knowing how companies work in Poland, i cant realy say anything bad about CEO. At those position those guys dont have live what do every. They are at work 24/7.
Management and heads - those are often the worst and are doing nothing.

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Sad to read, thanks for adding some background context to the general work culture and expectation there.

 

[Se_7_eN]

Ah, so victim blaming. Neat.

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Making grown up decisions (Like not pissing yourself) is hardly victim blaming... If you want to think "crunch" is as bad as its made out to be, then go ahead. I am just giving my opinion on it after 12+ years and multiple studios of experience.

 

[PMS341]

Making grown up decisions (Like not pissing yourself) is hardly victim blaming... If you want to think "crunch" is as bad as its made out to be, then go ahead. I am just giving my opinion on it after 12+ years and multiple studios of experience.

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Your opinion doesn't diminish the fact that it is literally only your experience and has nothing to do with the thousands of documented experiences of horrible crunch and work environments, all for the sake of paying the CEO of the publishing company.

 

[slorelli]

It's as though labor laws don't apply to the video games industry.

 

[picorin81]

The delay is to avoid that... right? right?

 

[Ragnarok Flames]

Crunch isn't a problem since they get paid but I hope people aren't forced to or if they want time off they can get it.

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lolwut?

 

[Se_7_eN]

Your opinion doesn't diminish the fact that it is literally only your experience and has nothing to do with the thousands of documented experiences of horrible crunch and work environments, all for the sake of paying the CEO of the publishing company.

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Thousands of documents from the gaming industry about crunch you say!? I am sure... Either way, sorry for providing some incite, you clearly know more than anyone else, based on your internet readings.

Enjoy the game!

 

[methodiczero]

I remember working 80hr weeks when i was at Activision 14 years ago.... it was brutal.

 

[Thrill_house]

No come on fuck that just delay until next spring. Don't kill yourselves over a fucking game people!

 

[Bufbaf]

lolwut?

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He's saying the devs of CP2077 will get paid extra for working overtime or night shifts and they can (hopefully) choose not to on an individual basis. Read the thread, it's been explained on page 3 or something; CDPR is not a US company.

He's not saying "crunch in general is fine yolo".

 

[Sabercrusader]

I would rather they delay to next year if need be than to force Crunch. Might be better off anyways if that gives them time to release a full next-gen port as well.

 

[deadman322]

least they're not taking their staff on a holiday.

 

[Ragnarok Flames]

He's saying the devs of CP2077 will get paid extra for working overtime or night shifts and they can (hopefully) choose not to on an individual basis. Read the thread, CDPR is not a US company.

He's not saying "crunch in general is fine yolo".

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getting paid extra doesnt help stress from crunch.

 

[Extra Sauce]

We're all going to buy it regardless of how badly you abuse your employees.

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fixed, unfortunately

 

[Bufbaf]

getting paid extra doesnt help stress from crunch.

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True, but if (and that's a big if) 'crunch' at CDPR means official late/night shifts that are getting paid extra plus aren't mandatory (and if I understand correctly, that's the law in Poland), it's regular shift working/overtime as it happens in many other european companies regardless of industry.

That said, my post did come off wrong, it wasn't supposed to sound demeaning.

 

[gothmog]

getting paid extra doesnt help stress from crunch.

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Extra money certainly helps relieve my stress levels around finances, but YMMV.

 

[warp]

Being in Poland, this is not suprising. If You work less than 60h a weak You are considered lazy. You should see everyone shock when i said that i dont want to work 12h a day everyday. And if You are single? Well, You live in your job because "you dont have any responsibility at home"
Add to that, that 1000$ in Poland is considered good salary (median salary is like 600$) and Polish devs earn Polish money, do yeah, working for Cdpr is a mistake.

And knowing how companies work in Poland, i cant realy say anything bad about CEO. At those position those guys dont have live what do every. They are at work 24/7.
Management and heads - those are often the worst and are doing nothing.

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unfortunately, a lot of people only realize what a waste of time working your life away really is when they're on their death bed. a lot of people also realize it way sooner, but it doesn't matter when everyone else is expecting you to put in the same crazy hours as them.

 

[Figgles]

Ah yes, the investors. Now we're getting to the root of the exploitation of the work force.

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Yeah, investors. With dwindling revenue, and no one willing to invest, how long do you think they can keep funding the project?

 

[Haze]

Yeah, investors. With dwindling revenue, and no one willing to invest, how long do you think they can keep funding the project?

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Workers shouldn't have to suffer because management can't do their job. In game development it's a tale as old as time itself. Those with the least amount of responsibility receive the brunt of accountability.

If a game can't reach its deadline while the developer's are also experiencing crunch, then this is a failure of the team's leadership.

But of course, they'll be the ones who suffer the least.

 

[Pwnz]

For the game to be delayed that many months so close to launch and developers need to work extra hours means that project management is bad, or internally they delayed it months ago.

 

[Mudo]

Here's the deal:

If you need to delay your game 5 months to complete it, but even that long delay means there will be soul crushing crunch for hundreds of people, then just delay your damn game until next year or whatever future date will mean that crunch doesn't have to happen.

The world can wait. Everyone will be fine. There are an embarrassing amount of great games coming this year.

I fear there will not be another delay, and that actually sucks :/

 

[spookyduzt]

If "blatant transphobia" wasn't going to stop them from doing it, why would "abusing workers" be their last straw

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this

 

[ShutterMunster]

Much love to the squad at CDPR. Hope everyone makes it through crunch in one piece.

 

[NinjaScooter]

It sort of feels to me like the 60 FPS thing. When people say "when will console hardware get to the point where 60 FPS across the board is standard?" And the answer is probably never, because better hardware will lead to developers wanting to push more polys and effects and lighting and resolution. I wonder if, in a similar way, the answer to how much time does a developer need to eliminate crunch is they won't.

 

[Slayven]

For the game to be delayed that many months so close to launch and developers need to work extra hours means that project management is bad, or internally they delayed it months ago.

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Makes the E3 show look like a farce

 

[effin]

Ugh the stupidest bit about this is that reportedly these kind of long hours for an employee after a certain point result in less productivity than just a regular work week.

Having been in a situation where I was working on a game for 80+ hour weeks for an extended period of time, my heart goes out to the devs. It is absolutely brutal on ones mental health.

 

[PMS341]

Thousands of documents from the gaming industry about crunch you say!? I am sure... Either way, sorry for providing some incite, you clearly know more than anyone else, based on your internet readings.

Enjoy the game!

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You should really read this article instead of being so dismissive. This is just a recent example, but it doesn't take a lot of work to research and read about how horrible crunch is both physically and mentally, or how it is has been that way for a long time. Your tone aside, you should genuinely learn how to express empathy and understanding as opposed to either A) assuming your experience is the only experience, and B) dismissing the real dangers of employees working under terrible conditions for the sake of making money for their bosses.

The game looks great, and I'm sure it will be, but that will be all because of the devs who are working on it directly, not their managers.

 

[Pwnz]

Makes the E3 show look like a farce

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I don't know, they may have actually thought they could hit the date back then.

But with software development these days with Rally or Azure DevOps or whatever planning too you use, it's obvious 6 months out that you aren't going to hit a target date. They must have known no later than October.

 

[Deleted member 18400]

The game looks great, and I'm sure it will be, but that will be all because of the devs who are working on it directly, not their managers.

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That's a weird sentence. So you think all the management at every video game company does....nothing?

 

[DerpHause]

Sadly, this is true for the majority of people here.

I've not bought a single CDPR title and do not intend on doing so because of their practices.

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Do you think us not buying it because there was crunch involved will actually make there be less crunch?

 

[Tremorah]

I mean we all knew this already, but i sure hope they try to not crunch their brains off

 

[PMS341]

That's a weird sentence. So you think all the management at every video game company does....nothing?

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Of course not. But the actual artists, modelers, coders, etc. are the ones who actually make the game.

 

[ridaxan]

I don't work in the gamedev industry, but I work in an unrelated dev industry. We have crunch about once every 3-4 months for a couple of weeks. So it's not something that's out of the ordinary for me. We don't get paid for overtime, but we get "time off in lieu of overtime". Some weeks we easily knock 60 hours (Mon-Fri) at the office, some weeks more.

This has been the case for the last 3 companies I've worked at.

The salaries we are paid is pretty good, comparatively, in my country. My wife and kid understands.

 

[Deleted member 18400]

Of course not. But the actual artists, modelers, coders, etc. are the ones who actually make the game.

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I think you are greatly under appreciating what a good game director and management does for a game, or for any large project.

 

[gnexus]

Just delay it to next gen. Oh well, need those double dip extra sales I guess. Sucks for the employees, definitely

 

[PMS341]

I think you are greatly under appreciating what a good game director and management does for a game, or for any large project.

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I understand their purpose and am not dismissing it. However, they ultimately have the power to decide if their team has crunch or not - CDPR has failed in this regard. Those who will be forced to crunch in order to release a commercial product by an arbitrary date are the ones who will make the game exist in the first place.

Also, the initial post was responding to a user who was completely dismissing crunch as a whole due to their personal anecdotal experience, and that was your takeaway? That I need to think of the managers too?

 

[DerpHause]

Just delay it to next gen. Oh well, need those double dip extra sales I guess. Sucks for the employees, definitely

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I'm confused here. You think the delays are for a double dip on next gen?

 

[night814]

I'd rather them delay it an extra month instead :(

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Delay it indefinitely, there's no reason to set an arbitrary date at all. Announce a new date when it's closer to being finished.

 

[Figgles]

Workers shouldn't have to suffer because management can't do their job. In game development it's a tale as old as time itself. Those with the least amount of responsibility receive the brunt of accountability.

If a game can't reach its deadline while the developer's are also experiencing crunch, then this is a failure of the team's leadership.

But of course, they'll be the ones who suffer the least.

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It's a tale as old as time on any project. Project management isn't easy, especially on something this complex. A lot of things go wrong, and you can plan for some, but not everything. It seems like CDPR has tried to avoid "crunch" here, but eventually you run into the cold hard reality that they have to get it done, because they aren't a very big company, and they have bills to pay.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

I'm confused here. You think the delays are for a double dip on next gen?

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No, the suggestion is that if they kicked this further out, past the launch of the new consoles, there wouldn't be an opportunity to double dip because by then no one will be buying XBO/PS4 versions of the game.

 

[Tovarisc]

No, the suggestion is that if they kicked this further out, past the launch of the new consoles, there wouldn't be an opportunity to double dip because by then no one will be buying XBO/PS4 versions of the game.

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Or you know, they want game to done and out as soon as it's realistically possible?

Running company like CDPR isn't cheap so "just delay it few more months, into November" comes with price tag in MILLIONS just for labor costs.

 

[night814]

Surprised they weren't already crunching so I'm curious to know what their definition of actual crunch is.

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They likely already were trying to make their April date. To an extent at least; people staying late/working extra days.

 

[Haze]

It's a tale as old as time on any project. Project management isn't easy, especially on something this complex. A lot of things go wrong, and you can plan for some, but not everything. It seems like CDPR has tried to avoid "crunch" here, but eventually you run into the cold hard reality that they have to get it done, because they aren't a very big company, and they have bills to pay.

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Money isn't going to suddenly dry up unless there is something wrong with the development. Especially when their biggest game is seeing a huge resurgence of sales. Avoiding crunch doesn't seem likely since they already were crunching.

It's also often counterintuitive to getting the game out because you're exhausting your workers to the point where the work they are doing probably isn't productive when they're working 60-80 hours per week.

You're trying to fix a problem by creating a problem.

 

[DerpHause]

Or you know, they want game to done and out as soon as it's realistically possible?

Running company like CDPR isn't cheap so "just delay it few more months, into November" comes with price tag in MILLIONS just for labor costs.

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It seems local laws require OT be paid in this case so the labor costs might be a wash. Whatever other cost they may incur from delaying distribution further if any might be worse though.

 

[KrAzY]

This is unfortunate, I was thinking that the delay would be okay for the devs too but guess not

 

[night814]

This is one of the problems with announcing game dates so far out from release.

CDPR do not need to subscribe to any hype/marketing cycle. They could just say "when it's ready" forever and then say "It;s gone gold!" and the same people would buy it.

At this point delaying from September to October would not hurt sales. Even November, with a new gen console launch, they'd still get the same sales. They are that big.

In fact, responding to crunch based concerns by announcing another month on top of this delay would actually be good marketing.

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Yup, don't set abitrary dates. Even if you announce it will launch in a specific quarter it gives them some leeway at least.

 

[DerpHause]

This is unfortunate, I was thinking that the delay would be okay for the devs too but guess not

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Whatever needs done with whatever crunch is needed between now and when the product is finalized for Sept would be several orders of magnitude worse had the date been kept so while not ideal it is still "better."

Yup, don't set abitrary dates. Even if you announce it will launch in a specific quarter it gives them some leeway at least.

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At some point someone needs to get the games where they need to be when they need to be there. I'm not sure fuzzy windows work well with physical or digital distributors.