Managed to finish the game under 3 hours, that was way too close for comfort, especially in the later stages... i had to quit before dying otherwise i wouldn't have been able to do it!
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Cyber Shadow |OT| A Striking Silhouette
- Thread starter Dancrane212
- Start date
- OT
I realized that maybe parrying can be done with any direction you want because it is possible to parry vertical projectiles but it's impossible to do intentionally.
I've 100% everything you can in a single playthrough. I get the impression this game was rushed going by the lack of New Game Plus yet they leave out a signifier of a mode that...not sure what else it indicates. If there is post-game patch, I'll come back to do the rest of the Feats, otherwise...on to Olija.
can you elaborate on what? why does quitting before dying help you with that?
also, congrats!
I had a chance to play a bit of this on launch day via game pass and I really liked it. I think I gave my thumb a blister lol. I can't wait to go back and play more.
Got up to chapter 5 in a few hours last night, wasted what feels like dozens of deaths trying to do that pit pogo puzzle to get the life point. You know the one.
Yep, it's been a huge turnoff for me too as I progress. I'm conditioning more to it, but its implementation has been unpleasant to learn and utilize initially.
Not done yet, but sort of echoing some thoughts that my initial excitement has wavered the further I play. Some checkpoints are mystifying in their spread(though occasionally some clever shortcuts are appreciated). Also, some of the obstacles are grown-inducing to deal with, partly due to hurdles with certain mechanics like above, as well as just being more irritating than fun to overcome.
Im sounding more harsh than I actually feel as I am at least intrigued to finish it out, but my initial hype and excitement has plateaued somewhat.
I assume dying and respawning at the last checkpoint doesn't stop or reverse the timer, while quiting and reloading spawns you back at the checkpoint with the time it was when you first checkpointed there. With how environmental things like the ladder you drop at some point, stay after death, it's more like a player and enemy respawn than a reload when you die.
Beat the final boss
This is one of the most frustrating games I've played in a while I gotta say, not a bad game but one that feels like it has the potential to be a modern retro styled classic but keeps making small decisions that add up to drag things down.
One of the appeals of the modern retro inspired title is to take that old school style and exorcize the clumsier aspects of them, often those related to making things "hard" back in the day so you wouldn't storm through the game at pace.
Cyber Shadow is indeed one of those games where you have a health bar but you may well forget with how often your deaths comes from being knocked back into a pit/instant death spike/electric trap. Between this focus on instant death floors in later areas and a laughably small amount of invincibility frames I almost get the impression that they didn't want the player to ever be able to have a damage boosting moment. I can kinda understand that, especially in a game where you can extend your health bar it ain't great to design an obstacle course segment and then someone just sneak past half of it with some cheap hits, still as the game ramps up the small platforms over death hazards while projectiles fling in all over the place, maybe those electrified floors should just hit HARD instead of insta-kill.
The overlapping control scheme I imagine stems from mirroring the limited button options of an NES controller (shoulder button dash not withstanding) which can lead to a few awkward moments like accidentally air slashing across the screen to your doom. These special moves being both necessary tools for traversal while dipping into the special meter resource never felt quite right, like a section requiring downward thrusts to break through flooring and thus depletes your meter and limits your future attacking options (interestingly the air slash hitting an enemy seems to guarantee an SP drop though so there's that). The difficulty level bounces all over the place, going off the top of my head here but I think it was chapters 2 and 8 struck me is being more tricky than those surrounding them in a noticeable way.
Even with the shoulder button option, the dash input never felt quite right and led to a few fumbles, to me at least, character control is incredibly tight though as has a great feel to it, so it's hard to harp too much on this point.
I thought the bosses were uniformly great, an incredibly strong lineup of varied battles that felt a lot more balanced than the rest of the game, I nary have a negative thing to say about them. And when the level design isn't falling prey to some of those NES pitfalls alluded to earlier, it's a great showcase of variety that makes use of the gradual increase in abilities.
Looking at the game structure, initially I was disappointed by the game being presented as a linear progression while having an upgrade system, still I made my peace with that when I saw how ridonk the air slash/dash combo was. In the end the game kinda reminded me of an even more linear Metroid Fusion style setup.
I do think the early stages approach to make the most use they could out of the most limited of options (jump and slash, that's it) was inspired in a way but ultimately led to the game feeling like you had to progress past the halfway point before it really shows its potential, still props for making the best out of intentionally limiting your options.
Because numerical values are a thing, I think 7.5 hits the mark for me, this is a really impressive outing for the one man dev, critiquing a game made under such circumstances always makes me feel like an arse, but I really think a few tweaks to certain areas mostly related to difficulty could've benefitted the game.
Or maybe I'm just old but in the way where you remember retro but can no longer do retro
This is one of the most frustrating games I've played in a while I gotta say, not a bad game but one that feels like it has the potential to be a modern retro styled classic but keeps making small decisions that add up to drag things down.
One of the appeals of the modern retro inspired title is to take that old school style and exorcize the clumsier aspects of them, often those related to making things "hard" back in the day so you wouldn't storm through the game at pace.
Cyber Shadow is indeed one of those games where you have a health bar but you may well forget with how often your deaths comes from being knocked back into a pit/instant death spike/electric trap. Between this focus on instant death floors in later areas and a laughably small amount of invincibility frames I almost get the impression that they didn't want the player to ever be able to have a damage boosting moment. I can kinda understand that, especially in a game where you can extend your health bar it ain't great to design an obstacle course segment and then someone just sneak past half of it with some cheap hits, still as the game ramps up the small platforms over death hazards while projectiles fling in all over the place, maybe those electrified floors should just hit HARD instead of insta-kill.
The overlapping control scheme I imagine stems from mirroring the limited button options of an NES controller (shoulder button dash not withstanding) which can lead to a few awkward moments like accidentally air slashing across the screen to your doom. These special moves being both necessary tools for traversal while dipping into the special meter resource never felt quite right, like a section requiring downward thrusts to break through flooring and thus depletes your meter and limits your future attacking options (interestingly the air slash hitting an enemy seems to guarantee an SP drop though so there's that). The difficulty level bounces all over the place, going off the top of my head here but I think it was chapters 2 and 8 struck me is being more tricky than those surrounding them in a noticeable way.
Even with the shoulder button option, the dash input never felt quite right and led to a few fumbles, to me at least, character control is incredibly tight though as has a great feel to it, so it's hard to harp too much on this point.
I thought the bosses were uniformly great, an incredibly strong lineup of varied battles that felt a lot more balanced than the rest of the game, I nary have a negative thing to say about them. And when the level design isn't falling prey to some of those NES pitfalls alluded to earlier, it's a great showcase of variety that makes use of the gradual increase in abilities.
Looking at the game structure, initially I was disappointed by the game being presented as a linear progression while having an upgrade system, still I made my peace with that when I saw how ridonk the air slash/dash combo was. In the end the game kinda reminded me of an even more linear Metroid Fusion style setup.
I do think the early stages approach to make the most use they could out of the most limited of options (jump and slash, that's it) was inspired in a way but ultimately led to the game feeling like you had to progress past the halfway point before it really shows its potential, still props for making the best out of intentionally limiting your options.
Because numerical values are a thing, I think 7.5 hits the mark for me, this is a really impressive outing for the one man dev, critiquing a game made under such circumstances always makes me feel like an arse, but I really think a few tweaks to certain areas mostly related to difficulty could've benefitted the game.
Or maybe I'm just old but in the way where you remember retro but can no longer do retro
I've been enjoying this game, but chapter 8 has absolutely massive stretches of bottomless pits and spike pits with no checkpoint and it's just a waste of my fucking time
Also way too many enemies that are just a slog to fight, like these guys that spew out purple flame that stays on the ground long enough that the next flame refreshes it, and you are just frozen out of using that spot to fight it.
The green bubbles in the last level also sucked shit
Also way too many enemies that are just a slog to fight, like these guys that spew out purple flame that stays on the ground long enough that the next flame refreshes it, and you are just frozen out of using that spot to fight it.
The green bubbles in the last level also sucked shit
for saving time! Since the game autosave, everytime you die the game still count the time passing
Impressed that this was done (music aside) by a single dev. Some of the first games I worked on were GBC and GBA sprite action/platformers, so I have personal experience here. I'm enjoying it so far, and am part-way through Chapter 2.
Playing on PS5, and while I don't have a 120hz display, it's very smooth by default. Well worth the price for me.
Playing on PS5, and while I don't have a 120hz display, it's very smooth by default. Well worth the price for me.
ah yes, obviously. I should have thought of that :D
Game guide
seems to be a pretty cool picture guide which includes screenshots of secrets and stuff. randomly clicked on a chapter and instantly saw a part where I missed a now quite obvious secret path to a health upgrade.... :/ ... :D
Dancrane212 maybe a thing for the OP too?
I just finished it on Series S (Game Pass).
Time: 10:30:38
Items: 80%
Deaths: 492
As you can see, I have died a lot, and that´s why it took me longer than most of you, and that´s maybe why I loved it. I understand why it could be annoying for some but in my case, I took every death as an opportunity to play better and to face the challenge, not as a source of frustration. You could argue that some of the deaths are "cheap" and the placement of certain elements in the stages is "tricky", but isn´t that good design in this case? I think the game is "designed for you to die". As I say, it never reached the point of desperation for me, so I am pretty satisfied overall.
Funnily enough, my perception is that the difficulty of the bosses is way lower than the difficulty of the regular stages. It is relatively easy to cheese them all, or at least to quickly find a way to avoid their attacks and finish almost untouched. The final boss was the hardest for me, I think the second phase sucked a little, but as I say, after learning the ropes, it wasn´t such a big deal.
The game truly shows its colors in the final chapters, when you have all your abilities/movements unlocked. The moveset allows you to do many cool things and it is pleasant to play, controls are tight as fuck.
The music is just godly:
I played the whole game with the CRT filter on and I think it looked pretty cool. I absolutely loved the alien/robotic aesthetic, gave me Contra vibes at times.
I REALLY appreciate these kind games as of lately, even when there may be certain saturation in the current landscape, so It is gotta be a 5/5 for me.
What do you guys think about the final scene? The one after the credits...
Time: 10:30:38
Items: 80%
Deaths: 492
As you can see, I have died a lot, and that´s why it took me longer than most of you, and that´s maybe why I loved it. I understand why it could be annoying for some but in my case, I took every death as an opportunity to play better and to face the challenge, not as a source of frustration. You could argue that some of the deaths are "cheap" and the placement of certain elements in the stages is "tricky", but isn´t that good design in this case? I think the game is "designed for you to die". As I say, it never reached the point of desperation for me, so I am pretty satisfied overall.
Funnily enough, my perception is that the difficulty of the bosses is way lower than the difficulty of the regular stages. It is relatively easy to cheese them all, or at least to quickly find a way to avoid their attacks and finish almost untouched. The final boss was the hardest for me, I think the second phase sucked a little, but as I say, after learning the ropes, it wasn´t such a big deal.
The game truly shows its colors in the final chapters, when you have all your abilities/movements unlocked. The moveset allows you to do many cool things and it is pleasant to play, controls are tight as fuck.
The music is just godly:
I played the whole game with the CRT filter on and I think it looked pretty cool. I absolutely loved the alien/robotic aesthetic, gave me Contra vibes at times.
I REALLY appreciate these kind games as of lately, even when there may be certain saturation in the current landscape, so It is gotta be a 5/5 for me.
What do you guys think about the final scene? The one after the credits...
was offered a free code to this game, probably wouldn't have checked it out otherwise. It's definitely tough but I'm managing to progress OK.
the area with the poison bubbles/flying heads really sucked for me. Will post more comprehensive thoughts when I finish.
the area with the poison bubbles/flying heads really sucked for me. Will post more comprehensive thoughts when I finish.
I am on chapter 9. Been ready for it to end around chapter 7. Was enjoying it but it's just a slog now. It's the flying enemies mostly. They add too much chaos IMO. It's too hard for me to keep track of where they are while doing the mobility parts. Makes the challenge more frustrating than fun. I will finish it, but these last chapters have soured it badly for me.
The parry sucks. I would have never used it if it wasnt for some mandatory parts. It's not rewarding as it doesnt do that much damage. Fighting the boss that was throwing fireballs at you I realized that jumping over the fireballs and mashing slash was way more effecient.
I've just got to chapter 10. I'm not sure I'm going to finish it.
At the start it was kind of disappointing. Hey look at cyber ninja jump and slice! I more or less forced myself to go further to see how the move set unlocked.
Complaints:
- spikes killing you through i-frames is bullshit.
- the chapter 8
- the back end of the game seems to be completely allergic to providing health drops, so the late stages become more about memorizing routes with no margin for error.
At the start it was kind of disappointing. Hey look at cyber ninja jump and slice! I more or less forced myself to go further to see how the move set unlocked.
Complaints:
- spikes killing you through i-frames is bullshit.
- the chapter 8
bike ride is trash and commits the unpardonable sin of the stage only being hard *because of* the bike.
I was enjoying this but the later levels aren't really all that fun due to spikes and enemies constantly knocking you into them with their projectiles.
Hoping the final boss isn't to bad because I'm kinda done with it.
Hoping the final boss isn't to bad because I'm kinda done with it.
Finished the game today. Loved it. Really enjoyed the soundtrack, the bosses, and once you get all your powers (especially the parry) things get even better. Cleared it with almost every pick up but missed a couple, will probably rebuy the game on Switch and do all the feats.
Was disappointed to see no hard mode or anything unlocked after beating the game. I found the game too easy (I managed to beat the final boss only getting hit once in the end!) so I'd welcome a NG+/Hard mode patch/DLC in the future as its a pretty easy game. Though I could probably just make the game harder by purposely missing/not using checkpoints and the bonuses they give I suppose.
Was disappointed to see no hard mode or anything unlocked after beating the game. I found the game too easy (I managed to beat the final boss only getting hit once in the end!) so I'd welcome a NG+/Hard mode patch/DLC in the future as its a pretty easy game. Though I could probably just make the game harder by purposely missing/not using checkpoints and the bonuses they give I suppose.
These long checkpoints are annoying the fuck outta me. I do admit it that my patience is not like in my younger years, but still it's not really 'friendly'. I'm at Chapter 3 after defeating that mini-boss and I redid the continuation part for like 6 times, dying for the usual crappy shit and I just got salty and ragequit. I mean OK i get it, they made it challenging somehow but I feel like the checkpoints should've occurred in some specific parts right after beating or passing a fairly challenging area without having to redo it again in case of a sudden death.
Still loving the game though, will take my time with it.
Still loving the game though, will take my time with it.
Finished the game without picking up any upgrades.... Now to do the hardest... reaching the end of level 3 without dying
because you get more and more health so the damage goes up too, there's also the fact that you're way more mobile with all the special moves
Just started this and made it through stage 2. No way the not dying achievement is gonna be harder. You could in theory exit to menu before you die or upload a cloud save here or there. The no upgrades though. Yikes...those later stages are going to be frustrating. Not to mention the final boss. All i got left is the no upgrades, no deaths to level 3 and the speed run. I'd imagine the speed run will go pretty smoothly after that many runs of the game.
Yeah I was really digging this game for chapters 1-4 but it started getting tough in chapter 5, I'm in chapter 7 now and having a hard time getting motivated to play. I get that they wanted to pretend they only had an NES controller to work with, but when you've got two unused buttons and are asking me to double tap in a direction at a set time to parry projectiles, that's when the concession needs to be made. Horrible mechanic.
100% the game, as far as collectibles go.
This really is the kind of game that keeps on building up and just gets better and getter. Too bad the early chapters are a little rough because of how anemic your initial moveset is.
Honestly the more I play Cyber Shadow the more I appreciate it, which plays really wonderfully and the Sunsoft-inspired tile art and general aesthetic is fantastic. Just excellent use of the NES color palette.
I also really appreciate that the game renders on a fixed pixel grid.
This really is the kind of game that keeps on building up and just gets better and getter. Too bad the early chapters are a little rough because of how anemic your initial moveset is.
Honestly the more I play Cyber Shadow the more I appreciate it, which plays really wonderfully and the Sunsoft-inspired tile art and general aesthetic is fantastic. Just excellent use of the NES color palette.
I also really appreciate that the game renders on a fixed pixel grid.
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Chapter 8 and I feel like I'm just about done with this game. It's just being a dick for no reason at this point.
Finished two chapters. I wish I had looked at the achievements before playing, since I didn't realize there were achievements for beating bosses a certain way until The Apparitor told me I was being dishonorable by stabbing him in the back. Thankfully, as soon as he said that I reloaded and beat him the correct way.
Anyway, it's fun. Difficult, but not absurdly so. Anyone that's played Ninja Gaiden games on NES (particular the third one) would understand the angle here. Brutal difficulty, but recognizable enemy patterns. Doesn't seem too bad so far.
I do understand people's frustrations though. The game immediately throws annoying bug enemies at you. Same feeling as when you start Mega Man 3 for the first time and go for Hard Man's stage first with those damn bees. Cyber Shadow pulls no punches and assumes you know exactly what kind of game you're playing. For better or worse, it has an audience in mind.
Anyway, it's fun. Difficult, but not absurdly so. Anyone that's played Ninja Gaiden games on NES (particular the third one) would understand the angle here. Brutal difficulty, but recognizable enemy patterns. Doesn't seem too bad so far.
I do understand people's frustrations though. The game immediately throws annoying bug enemies at you. Same feeling as when you start Mega Man 3 for the first time and go for Hard Man's stage first with those damn bees. Cyber Shadow pulls no punches and assumes you know exactly what kind of game you're playing. For better or worse, it has an audience in mind.
Oh man...reading through this thread it seems that the game only "starts" getting hard(er) around level 5...which I just got to. I had a hell of a time with what I consider the true boss fight of the 4th stage already, though. I died at least 10 times, here. One time, I thought I was going to win, but I got caught with one of its vertical attacks and got hit TWICE by that one attack, costing me my last 4 health when it only had 3 bars of health left.
I'm not a big fan of the enemies taking two bars of damage, but that's probably just me. The lack of time for the i-frames is really getting kind of infuriating. I understand not wanting players to be able to cheese progression after getting hit, but getting hit twice by one attack animation is a huge no-no in my book. And of course, all those knockback deaths...
Kudos to everyone here in this thread that was able to beat this - I doubt I'll be able to get through to the end but I'll give it my best shot. The non-metroidvania parts of The Messenger were definitely way more my speed difficulty wise and I certainly appreciated the modern QOL improvements that game had relative to its older NES counterparts (that Cyber Shadow, intentionally, lacks).
I believe I read this game was created by one developer, though - it's certainly an incredible effort and an amazing feat, if so!
I'm not a big fan of the enemies taking two bars of damage, but that's probably just me. The lack of time for the i-frames is really getting kind of infuriating. I understand not wanting players to be able to cheese progression after getting hit, but getting hit twice by one attack animation is a huge no-no in my book. And of course, all those knockback deaths...
Kudos to everyone here in this thread that was able to beat this - I doubt I'll be able to get through to the end but I'll give it my best shot. The non-metroidvania parts of The Messenger were definitely way more my speed difficulty wise and I certainly appreciated the modern QOL improvements that game had relative to its older NES counterparts (that Cyber Shadow, intentionally, lacks).
I believe I read this game was created by one developer, though - it's certainly an incredible effort and an amazing feat, if so!
I definitely overhyped myself for this. Was hoping for something better than Messenger, particularly in the boss department, but most of the early bosses having patterns that are too fixed or having too little health really hurts them. The chapter 6 boss was the best one and it dies too quickly.
Also the bosses are strangely really frontloaded. You get a boss & miniboss each level then no proper bosses at all for like 2 chapters.
Also the bosses are strangely really frontloaded. You get a boss & miniboss each level then no proper bosses at all for like 2 chapters.
the bike controls pretty much identically to anything similar you would see in a contra or mega man game. Have you played any with a bike segment before? It's pretty responsive, if it wasn't for the stupid achievement I probably would have gotten through it in my first five tries.
I feel the same about all of this. It gets better the more time and effort you put in to it. I got the Platinum trophy yesterday after a near-straight 14 hour cleanup session and I'm considering streaming some speedruns, even.
YES OH MY GOD I HATE THAT OTHER PIXEL ART GAMES GET AWAY WITH THIS
it's harder to me cause a single death makes you restart from the beginning and it's super annoying, especially since you can fall in a pit like a dumb fuck! (hard to react and press start before you're down in the pit, lol, even worse with spikes since it's instant)
Granted it's not long to reach the end of level 3, but still
While the no upgrade one is not that hard, you can take as much time as you want to learn everything and it's quite chill
final boss wasn't even the hardest imo
For anyone trying to go for achievements, you can redo the bug elevator at least. It's super painful to try the first time.
It really gives the game an authentic NES feel to everything. So many of these retro-inspired games overlook this. Funny how Shovel Knight didn't do this, maybe Yacht Club Games will learn after having published this one. :P
care to enlighten me? What does being on a single pixel grid means?
All pixels on screen are always aligned with each other in a perfect grid.
Some pixel art games don't do this and you have the sprites moving through sub pixels. It looks smoother but also unnatural, like the characters are disconnected from the background. Breaks the effect that these are supposed to look like 240p/low-res games.
oh i see, thanks for the explanation! Well it would be hard for shovel knight to do that since it's actually a 3D game, and plenty other game use 3D for their full 2D spirte games :
Well, specifically I mean the platforming section. Not only is the platforming horrible but the entire section would be easier on foot. It should've been cut and gone directly to the tunnel sequence.
Was this also the case on 3DS? There's not a lot of room for "sub pixels" and I remember thinking it looked grid-like. I'll need to play it again sometime.
well no shit it'd be easier on foot, because you have more control on foot. But it wouldn't be fun because it's long as shit and wouldn't be any different from the rest of the game. And you get decent notice for all of the jumps, the only trouble jump is one of the ones near the end with the two overhead enemies where it's very difficult to land it without either destroying the enemies (which you need godlike reaction time or are repeating the section to pull off) or getting hit, but that's not really an issue unless you're going for the achievement. Every other jump has decent amounts of wiggle room if you rock the bike back and forth properly with the flow of platforming: don't overcommit to the jump, use forward motion to extend your distance, then immediately pull backwards.
I completed chapters 1-4 100% and chapter 4 nearly broke me. There's a really awful section in the challenge area there that I basically just muscled through with sheer luck after dying a zillion times.
I definitely felt there were wild spikes on the difficulty curve with some sections feeling particularly grueling. Also it did feel like the checkpoints got way scarcer as I got deeper into the game, which is surely by design but it got kind of stale doing the same section of platforming again and again just to have a second chance at the part I failed at.
Celeste for instance was very consistent with checkpoints, reserving the kaizo-style challenge gauntlets for only people desiring 100% completion. Obviously they are different games, but a few more checkpoints couldn't have hurt across the main level path.
I did really enjoy the
bike/mech sequence as a nice change of pace after the Poison bubble area which really frustrated me.
And also shout out to the attract mode intro which I would have never seen If I hadn't let the game idle while writing this post. It's got better directing then any of the in game ones, what the heck?
I didn't think I'd like the "look" of the game, but In the end it did win me over with it's well done sunsoft style pixel art. I think in many ways it's better executed then shovel knight as a good NES Looking game, but the characters in shovel knight are just so much more fun.
the music? Some decent tunes, But Don't think it'll have the staying power as shovel knights soundtrack which is just filled with memorable, hummable blips and bloops.
Closing thoughts, great first outing for the mostly solo developer, hope it is a success for them !
I'm at stage 10 now and have to say everything from stage 7 onward soured me a bit on the game.
There's just too much insta-death precision platforming with projectiles coming from everywhere for my tastes. Feels like you have to approach everything super-slow to not get thrown into some spikes and pits. Some checkpoints are also close to each other while other sections are very long.
At least the bosses are all very good so far.
Still like the game but I would have thought higher about it if it ended two hours sooner.
There's just too much insta-death precision platforming with projectiles coming from everywhere for my tastes. Feels like you have to approach everything super-slow to not get thrown into some spikes and pits. Some checkpoints are also close to each other while other sections are very long.
At least the bosses are all very good so far.
Still like the game but I would have thought higher about it if it ended two hours sooner.