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Current rendering processes do exceedingly well with darker skin tones (Please read OP).
- Thread starter Hey Please
- Start date
It's a shot from the live action segments of Quantum Break, not in engine graphics.
Pretty sure that's in engine graphics.
And great thread OP đź‘Ť
In my eyes, all of the skin in the OP look equally good/not real. Most digital images I see generally stand out as fake to me.
I think my favorite skin so far was Kratos in God of War. I think it looked particularly good, probably because it isn't a natural shade [at least I think it's not].
I think my favorite skin so far was Kratos in God of War. I think it looked particularly good, probably because it isn't a natural shade [at least I think it's not].
Maybe I noticed It before but the first time I bluntly thought about this was playing The Last of Us remaster on PS4. You meet a secondary characters named Henry that is a black guy with his little brother trying to survive too, when I saw him in motion besides your protagonists I thought "Holy shit he looks amazing" which is a reaction that I dont have but that a minor character looked so realistic compared to Joel make me thought about this too.
I'm not as impressed with the Death Stranding characters as eveyone else seems to be, the skin in that game looks super fake to me. That being said this character looks amazing.
Animation is the big bit in this scene above but KojiPro did a good job of capturing Tommie Earl Jenkins' likeness alongside the rest of the cast.
if you know, you know.
Nah that's doable. It's more the skin surface elements (evidenced by projector lights) which make me doubt it could be a live action shot.
Edit: Also some minor clothing details which probably wouldn't have been modeled in a 3D scene.
Now I'm wishing Lance Reddick was in Control. Even just a disembodied voice in the motel. "I wish I were Levar Burton!"
Why post a shot of a live action cutscene?Needs more Lance Reddick
In genera when it comes to CGI, scenes with darker tones, or with shadows that have more edge appear better.
I think the scattering appears better in darker-skinned characters too. The more pale a character is, the harder it is to make the texture on their faces be seen, imo.
The only place where I've seen better lighter skin than average was God of War 2018 but that's because of the ashy layer that Kratos has.
I think the scattering appears better in darker-skinned characters too. The more pale a character is, the harder it is to make the texture on their faces be seen, imo.
The only place where I've seen better lighter skin than average was God of War 2018 but that's because of the ashy layer that Kratos has.
I'm sorry to derail, but that poem was on a poster in my classroom in high school in 1990. Was it just a very late nomination, or what's going on?
It absolutely isn't:
If nothing else it's a neat trick to see the virtual actors...
... soon show up as their real selves:
The way darker skin reacts to light (specular values showing more, making the pores and sweat more visible) really benefited much more than arguably diffuse looking "caucasian" tones in earlier skin rendering techniques, and really prevails to this day. I mean... who can forget the first time they looked at Jester and Prophet?
They looked decidedly better skin shading wise than other characters in the game. Or damn, any of the marines with Darker Skin? God DAMN.
I also think the push for better specularity in the PBS generation helped darker skin a lot too.
Great posts. Agreed about the skin shading there.
They looked decidedly better skin shading wise than other characters in the game. Or damn, any of the marines with Darker Skin? God DAMN.
I also think the push for better specularity in the PBS generation helped darker skin a lot too.
Great posts. Agreed about the skin shading there.
Die-Hardman is incredible. Most realistic character model I've ever seen. He looks photorealistic in nearly every scene. It's not just his face either, his hands are also insanely realistic in look and animation too.
Horizon is weird as Aloy is the main character but has one of the weakest faces in the game.
Horizon is weird as Aloy is the main character but has one of the weakest faces in the game.
Haven't played DS yet, but if you told me this live action I'd believe you.Die-hardman in Death Stranding looked insane.
I'm not familiar with this game, but at this size this looks like a fucking movie still.
Animation is the big bit in this scene above but KojiPro did a good job of capturing Tommie Earl Jenkins' likeness alongside the rest of the cast.
if you know, you know.
That cutscene blew my mind because this was the first time this generation that I thought "Okay...could be almost real now"
i'm pretty sure that never actually happened and there is no such award.
it somehow gets tacked on everytime it gets posted on the internet.
Huh, you're not wrong. They all do look like the best characters in their respective games.
And yeah Tommie Earl Jenkins looks really good in Death Stranding (and he's probably the best acted character), but everyone in that game has a weird Instagram filter/artificial smoothening like glow to them so I struggle to praise the visuals too much. Everyone looks a little inhuman, although he got the least of it.
And yeah Tommie Earl Jenkins looks really good in Death Stranding (and he's probably the best acted character), but everyone in that game has a weird Instagram filter/artificial smoothening like glow to them so I struggle to praise the visuals too much. Everyone looks a little inhuman, although he got the least of it.
The skin looks like some wax museum or Photoshop smoothing filter shit. Especially noticeable on Fragile and Mama.
Great thread and great stuff.
Waiting for games to star/lead people with skin tones like Jodie Turner Smith, Lupita Nyongo, & Daniel Kaluuya more regularly. With theor proper skin tones
Waiting for games to star/lead people with skin tones like Jodie Turner Smith, Lupita Nyongo, & Daniel Kaluuya more regularly. With theor proper skin tones
Years of Timefall will do that to you. It's a deliberate design choice to show the characters suffering in the post apocalyptic world. It ties into the narrative, Kojima is a visionary
Wow. That's very impressive
Animation is the big bit in this scene above but KojiPro did a good job of capturing Tommie Earl Jenkins' likeness alongside the rest of the cast.
if you know, you know.
Die-hardman in Death Stranding looked insane.
Literally the only thing that looks a bit weird to me is the lack of..some sort of slightly moving reflection/refraction to simulate the tears irregularly building up on the surface of his eyes.
Absolutely uncanny otherwise, it's an incredible showcase (and performance)
Edit: ok and some slight general stiffness in the upper half of his face
OP
OP
Thank you everyone for your contributions and continued recognition and support of this topic.
Pertaining to Death Stranding I will say this: I think female characters' skin textures felt awfully too waxy for my taste (albeit that Lea Sedoux IRL does have a touch waxier looking skin, presumably due to the make up). I don't know if there was an underlying bias working or not but comparatively male faces, even aside from Sam and Deadman, had greater amount of surface details depicting pores and flaws that felt obscured in Mama, President of UCA and Amelie.
I would say that, if you are looking for "on average" results for bad examples or rather simply examples then going back 2 generations would yield said results. Lighter and darker skin tones had essentially identical characteristics during PS2/Xbox OG era aside from the obvious differences in colour.
In fact, even if you go back one generation, games like Remember Me's protagonist, Nilin Cartier-Wells, looked better than than paler skin toned counter parts.
I didn't know Bioware talked about this. Thank you. It makes sense given DAI's glossier aesthetics lend a greater sense of realism to darker skins.
This is a fine post. Your article really hits the nail of the essence of this thread on its head- i.e. what it meant to be "human" in hollywood for the longest time. Thank you.
That is interesting. I have had Detroit in my backlog for a while now. Guess I will be paying closer to attention to the graveyard. That said, I do think that inorganic surfaces have, on the whole, been elevated to the photorealism status thanks to photogrammetry and PBR. With ray traced global illumination solutions on the horizon, things will get even better.
Unfortunately, that is the live action segment. If the time code fails, kindly go to 20:04 (segment from which the screenshot is taken).
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Looking into it further, even Malta Times alleges that it was nominated for the best poetry award but I can't find the official listing and interestingly, there are multiple renditions of this poem too. Regardless, it is a poem that has stuck with over a decade and it felt quite relevant to be posted here.
Dictator Looks like you being a hardcore fan of Crysis (even from the days of Gaf) and screenshotting have paid apt dividends :) And to think that this was before the whole PBR generation.
Now, I have a few more examples lined up from Horizon Zero Dawn. What strikes as I started looking back at the screens I had taken are:
Base game:
Frozen Wilds:
I will post more examples later. Thank you all.
Pertaining to Death Stranding I will say this: I think female characters' skin textures felt awfully too waxy for my taste (albeit that Lea Sedoux IRL does have a touch waxier looking skin, presumably due to the make up). I don't know if there was an underlying bias working or not but comparatively male faces, even aside from Sam and Deadman, had greater amount of surface details depicting pores and flaws that felt obscured in Mama, President of UCA and Amelie.
I would say that, if you are looking for "on average" results for bad examples or rather simply examples then going back 2 generations would yield said results. Lighter and darker skin tones had essentially identical characteristics during PS2/Xbox OG era aside from the obvious differences in colour.
In fact, even if you go back one generation, games like Remember Me's protagonist, Nilin Cartier-Wells, looked better than than paler skin toned counter parts.
I didn't know Bioware talked about this. Thank you. It makes sense given DAI's glossier aesthetics lend a greater sense of realism to darker skins.
This is a fine post. Your article really hits the nail of the essence of this thread on its head- i.e. what it meant to be "human" in hollywood for the longest time. Thank you.
That is interesting. I have had Detroit in my backlog for a while now. Guess I will be paying closer to attention to the graveyard. That said, I do think that inorganic surfaces have, on the whole, been elevated to the photorealism status thanks to photogrammetry and PBR. With ray traced global illumination solutions on the horizon, things will get even better.
Unfortunately, that is the live action segment. If the time code fails, kindly go to 20:04 (segment from which the screenshot is taken).
Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Looking into it further, even Malta Times alleges that it was nominated for the best poetry award but I can't find the official listing and interestingly, there are multiple renditions of this poem too. Regardless, it is a poem that has stuck with over a decade and it felt quite relevant to be posted here.
Dictator Looks like you being a hardcore fan of Crysis (even from the days of Gaf) and screenshotting have paid apt dividends :) And to think that this was before the whole PBR generation.
Now, I have a few more examples lined up from Horizon Zero Dawn. What strikes as I started looking back at the screens I had taken are:
- Skin rendering is notably better across the board in the DLC, Frozen Wilds (as you will see from the examples)
- Frozen Wilds has significantly more darker skinned folks as more profoundly interactable NPCs that base game
Base game:
Frozen Wilds:
I will post more examples later. Thank you all.
OP
OP
I was doing some digging around and unsurprisingly there is a gigantic dearth of behind the scenes videos that show rendering processes for handling darker skin tones. In fact, the only game where I found some good documentations on rendering aforementioned skin type are from Ready At Dawn's 2015 Siggraph presentations which can be found here:
Also, a few more examples from some other games:
Uncharted Lost Legacy (gameplay)-
Mad Max (in-engine cutscene):
Detroit (Gameplay and in-engine cinematic cuts):
Now, one thing I should mention is that regardless of everything else, I don't think anyone else does skin rendering quite like QD esp. in these hybridized moments:
Looking closely, it is evident that there are variations of pigmentation (like pigmentation spatter patterns) around his forehead and nose. Aside from differential pore (and sub scattering profile) distribution features and/or blemishes like these, that on a day to day basis we register as features on as part of paler skin type, lend that layer of authenticity that paler skin rendering relies on to avoid looking waxy and/or diffused. Again, this is to show why it is so complicated and finicky to get caucasian skin to look exceptional.
- Girls, Guns, and 3D Projection Painting in Mari
- Melton and Moustaches: The Character Art and Shot Lighting Pipelines of The Order: 1886
Also, a few more examples from some other games:
Uncharted Lost Legacy (gameplay)-
Mad Max (in-engine cutscene):
Detroit (Gameplay and in-engine cinematic cuts):
Now, one thing I should mention is that regardless of everything else, I don't think anyone else does skin rendering quite like QD esp. in these hybridized moments:
Looking closely, it is evident that there are variations of pigmentation (like pigmentation spatter patterns) around his forehead and nose. Aside from differential pore (and sub scattering profile) distribution features and/or blemishes like these, that on a day to day basis we register as features on as part of paler skin type, lend that layer of authenticity that paler skin rendering relies on to avoid looking waxy and/or diffused. Again, this is to show why it is so complicated and finicky to get caucasian skin to look exceptional.
That scene near the end of Death Stranding with Die Hardman (people who have finished the game will know which one I'm talking about) is not only a great performance, but his model's face and animation are among the best I've ever seen. I know we say it every few years only to look back and laugh, but it's hard to imagine games looking much better than that.