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Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
My cousins in Norway know about the watermelon stereotype, and so do my friends in England. It's not a stereotype localized in America that isn't known or understood overseas. This entire argument is similar to people who bring out Bananas only being a negative stereotype for black people in America, which is demonstrably untrue going by Fifa.
If you are into memes and hang out at edgy racist places then you probably have seen it being used in such a way. Same with black people can't swim or any other racist nonsense. But it's not a stereotype people who are not into online culture are aware of. I am from germany and I have never heard of it growing up nor do I think other germans know of it.

I educated myself on race issues so I know of it through that, but culturally there is 0 awareness outside of the anglosphere.
 

HussiZooT

Beware the Monkey's Paw
Member
Nov 16, 2017
535
If you are into memes and hang out at edgy racist places then you probably have seen it being used in such a way. Same with black people can't swim or any other racist nonsense. But it's not a stereotype people who are not into online culture are aware of. I am from germany and I have never heard of it growing up nor do I think other germans know of it.

I educated myself on race issues so I know of it through that, but culturally there is 0 awareness outside of the anglosphere.
Yeah.

I didn't know Watermelon had a connection to racial insensitivity.

I learned it from this thread. I'm from UAE.
 

HibbySloth

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,171
This is obviously something that flew over the devs heads. No way this was intentional. Knowing Beenox, I'm sure they'll change it since they clearly listen to their fans.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
Holy crap. At first I saw the first picture not knowing who she was. "Eh not seeing it." Then I scrolled a bit and saw the color change and still squinted my eyes trying to figure it out. So I started to scroll to read the rest of t.. omg. Yeah, uh... what?
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
What? This cartoon predates the internet by about, let's see now... 60 years or so?




I'm not American either. Ignorance is ignorance.

Can we put this discussion to rest. In your daily life you will just not come across this stereotype it's highly specific to the US and other anglo countries. Some might know of it due to the american media but it's not widespread.

I would wager racists and people who meme online are more aware of it then regular people.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
The developper is Canadian (Vancouver), as I am. Sorry but racism is USA's debate, we don't share the same history. Please keep your problems home, we've got enough issues to take care of on our side of the border.
Lol what? Canada is just as racist as the US maybe even worse due to people actually thinking like you do. The treatment of native americans is horrible.
 

Omegamon

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,884
The developper is Canadian (Vancouver), as I am. Sorry but racism is USA's debate, we don't share the same history. Please keep your problems home, we've got enough issues to take care of on our side of the border.
Why is always people from racist countries like Canada,England or Australia who says stuff like this?
 

Deleted member 3010

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,974
I just checked it up and I had no idea about the Watermelon stereotype, so at first I didn't get it.

I have no idea how this passed QA, because of course the guy who chose that name knew what he was doing. :/
 

Deleted member 17388

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,994
My culture/country is quite racist (Not from the US)

But there are some stereotypes or racially insensitive stuff I wasn't aware of until I saw it on the Internet.
Like this video, someone posted it and I didn't understand fully why there was an issue:


But I learned what it meant when someone in a post afterwards explained the fried chicken stereotype and all.

Sometimes a question is simply that, a question. Sometimes there is a lack of context or something missing to do a Google search so a question might appear. It's ignorance, but not from with malicious intent.

Like, it's different when people go for: "Hey I have no idea what is GamerGate but here's my three paragraphs long thoughts on this and why this is a non-issue" or "I'm no American so I don't see the issue, it's clearly ash from the chimney... And it's for kids anyway"
 

Wrestleman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,304
Virginia
The developper is Canadian (Vancouver), as I am. Sorry but racism is USA's debate, we don't share the same history. Please keep your problems home, we've got enough issues to take care of on our side of the border.

This post has some real problems, but the developer isn't even in Vancouver to begin with. They're in Quebec. And beyond that, development was supported by two American studios, in New York and California, and went through QA in Activision proper, who have offices in Minnesota and California.
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
20,549
I have no idea how this passed QA, because of course the guy who chose that name knew what he was doing. :/
The name is based on her watermelon themed clothes. Other characters have skins named after their clothes like Lemonade Megumi, and there's even another character with a watermelon themed skin, Watermelon Oxide. I see no reason to assume it was malicious.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,809
The developper is Canadian (Vancouver), as I am. Sorry but racism is USA's debate, we don't share the same history. Please keep your problems home, we've got enough issues to take care of on our side of the border.
You are actually lying if you are saying racism doesn't exist in canada
 

Daysean

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,392
The developper is Canadian (Vancouver), as I am. Sorry but racism is USA's debate, we don't share the same history. Please keep your problems home, we've got enough issues to take care of on our side of the border.
Imagine actually being like "whoa keep that racism away from us ewww" instead of just being anti racism in the first place regardless if it affects you or not
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
31,222
The developper is Canadian (Vancouver), as I am. Sorry but racism is USA's debate, we don't share the same history. Please keep your problems home, we've got enough issues to take care of on our side of the border.
What the fuck is this nonsense?

Just saw your post in the I just wanna go back to when games didn't have politics, let's talk about the apolitical games of the past thread. You really didn't read what that thread is about, did you?
 

Daysean

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,392
I can understand not knowing about racist shit regarding another race, I really can, not everyone knows everything. But just because you don't know shit doesn't mean you can pull the "WE don't understand why it's racist in x country", you don't understand it, not everyone in your area.
 

LuisGarcia

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,478
I'm from the UK and have never heard of this. Sounds to me like it was a mistake and they just gave her a tan and called her watermelon.

I'm sure they will amend once they realise.
 

Vareon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,846
Man I wish some people realize that asking people about an information on the thread it's being discussed on is a valid way to get information. Belittling people who genuinely didn't know about this stereotype didn't help at all.
 

OldGamer

Member
Jul 6, 2019
389
It's not surprising that many of these old stereotypes had been deservedly forgotten over time. Most American media put a stop to these depictions after WWII to the point they were all but extinct by the 60s. They would occasionally crop up in the 60s and 70s as a sort of satirical jab at the racism of the past but then faded into total obscurity.

The Watermelon stereotype originated in the US and is basically used to to perpetuate the antiquated "gluttonous & lazy" generalization and is basically the same as the fried chicken and pork chop stereotypes. The pork chop stereotype seems so archaic now that not even Google brings much of a find on it.
 
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Kaz Mk II

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,635
I wonder if they will patch this. The game has been out 3 weeks an seemingly not a significant amount of people have complained.

She doesn't even read as black to me, as she might as well be brunette with a slightly darker skin tone. I'm sure if this gets signal boosted enough they'll probably lighten up that skin's skin tone but I'm not really seeing much cause for issue. I certainly havent run into any black people = watermelon stereotypes in recent memory (black male). This isn't like blackface or an undeniable reference to something toxic. Regardless I dont care about CTR, they should change it if enough complain but I wouldn't blame them for not changing it.

Edit: I didn't read, this skin was recently added so not many would have gotten the chance to react to this. Considering the timeframe now I expect this to get enough attention to be changed within the week. I still dont find it particularly insensitive unless you're squinting at it but it's on them to adress/not adress people's concerns.
 
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Napalm_Frank

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,735
Finland
I wonder if they will patch this. The game has been out 3 weeks an seemingly not a significant amount of people have complained.

She doesn't even read as black to me, as she might as well be brunette with a slightly darker skin tone. I'm sure if this gets signal boosted enough they'll probably lighten up that skin's skin tone but I'm not really seeing much cause for issue. I certainly havent run into any black people = watermelon stereotypes in recent memory (black male). This isn't like blackface or an undeniable reference to something toxic. Regardless I dont care about CTR, they should change it if enough complain but I wouldn't blame them for not changing it.
The character in question was added this week.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,105
Her skin does seem a shade darker, but it took many flips in the Character Select screen to catch it. Either way, someone should flag this to Beenox for them to patch.

They really put their heart into this remake and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that this was an unfortunate oversight/mistake that they will patch ASAP.
 

dock

Game Designer
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,370
Even if this was accidental, it speaks volumes about how few efforts are in place to during production and QA to safeguard against insensitive phrases.
 

Jon Carter

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,746
Well first of all the stereotype did not originate from America.

The Wikipedia page posted on the first page says it did.

I can confirm as a non-American living in the U.S. that I've only ever heard of this stereotype in American media. France has a pretty big black population and the watermelon stereotype is not a thing.
 

Deleted member 32359

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2017
319
Seeing so much companies "failing" to have proper controls on this shows two things:
- more people are racists than you think and they're comfortable with it
- issue is not only representation in games but in the industry itself (as in many sectors black are often the least represented)

Sad.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,987
Well first of all the stereotype did not originate from America.

Yes it absolutely did, it comes directly from post-Civil War racist stereotypes. It permeates popular culture in ways most people don't even realize anymore. For instance, ice cream trucks in the U.S. traditionally played "Turkey In The Straw" until recently, but the reason that song is associated with ice cream in the U.S. is because there was a "parody" of it released in 1916 titled "N***** Love A Watermelon Ha! Ha! Ha!" in which watermelon is referred to as "the black man's ice cream." Ice cream parlors would play "Turkey In The Straw" as part of their song rotations but white audiences knew what it was really referring to. When the parlors went away due to white flight moving the customer base to the sprawled suburbs, ice cream trucks became the new method of delivery and carried that song with them as one of the tunes that signified ice cream. All because of that original racist rewrite of the song based on the watermelon stereotype.

Tangent, I know, but a good example of how racism is absolutely ingrained in American culture to the bone.
 

Zero-ELEC

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,565
México
Can we put this discussion to rest. In your daily life you will just not come across this stereotype it's highly specific to the US and other anglo countries. Some might know of it due to the american media but it's not widespread.
Mexican here: there's a song by Cri Cri titled "Negrito Sandia", literally "Watermelon Blacky" (as in a diminutive for Black man). It is not an American or Anglo thing. It's a racist thing.
 

Joe2187

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,521
CTR: Patch Notes

* Watermelon Tawna has now been renamed Kool-Aid Tawna.
*Black Zem has been renamed Grape Soda Zem

Everybody loves soda and juice right?
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,724
Why would non-Americans know about this? And why would you scoff at the opportunity to educate people about racial sensitivity?
Yep I didn't know about this as well until I read this thread, some people here are so aggressive
Bullshit. Not American and I know about this watermelon shit too. Just because you're ignorant of it doesn't mean it hasn't been used to generalise black people around the world.
 

DenBroncosFan

Member
Sep 24, 2018
12
I just found it to be a more tan Tawna than anything else & don't they have Watermelon Oxide already? You can compare the two and probably see there isn't any intent to make a racial gesture.
 

shoemasta

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,028
To be honest, I don't really see it. The "watermelon" skin seems to have a marginally darker skin tone than the original, but they should change it since it does seem to have an effect on others.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
Mexican here: there's a song by Cri Cri titled "Negrito Sandia", literally "Watermelon Blacky" (as in a diminutive for Black man). It is not an American or Anglo thing. It's a racist thing.
Makes sense as Mexico is the US's neighbour so some of those stereotypes trickled down there. Though I couldn't name countries not related to america where this is a thing.
 

Deleted member 13077

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,513
User Banned (1 Week): Inflammatory Generalizations and False Equivalences
Jesus fucking Christ Resetera. I knew about the negative connotations of the watermelon naming, but I'm sure as fuck not about to dogpile those that aren't aware of it. How the hell is anyone supposed to learn anything if someone asking a question is immediately rounded on?

This forums constant lack of capacity to engage in any kind of discourse without having to prove its superiority to everyone else astounds me. It's like nothing was learned from the Etika threads.
 

Tokikko

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
125
I just checked it up and I had no idea about the Watermelon stereotype, so at first I didn't get it.

I have no idea how this passed QA, because of course the guy who chose that name knew what he was doing. :/
He knew what he was doing, really? Can you elaborate how you know that?

Most people do not hang on forums 24/7 to know all possible insults and stereotype jokes. Instead of attacking them maybe, just maybe explain what the problem is to they can go and fix it without causing a circle jerk reaction evrytime.

I get the felling that people are more interested in causing drama and hate cycle then trying to overcome/resolve problems.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,663
Costa Rica
She has a very very slight tan compared to her original look and has a watermelon t-shirt and pants. Other characters have similar skins. How come we're now shitting on the dev team for being all white and implying they're a bunch of evil racists?

It's a bit of a a stretch to say there's a racist intent here, unlike Smash conveniently pairing all the Black characters with monkey spirits.
 

Sardello

Member
Oct 30, 2017
305
This always comes up...
Dude I'm sorry but the world is big and there are many countries in which we have no really idea of all these connotations, references, etc... There are so many cultures in this world and if nobody tells me that "watermelon" (in Italy just a summer fruit we like a lot) is something linked to some racist reference... well, how I'm supposed to know it??