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Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
I want to play this so bad but I'm so intimidated by just how much there is going on at all times
Same.

To piggyback on this: I want to pick this up, but I haven't played a game like this in a long time. Is it accessible enough for a lapsed Strategy person like me, Era? The reviews seem to indicate that it's a bit easier to learn than previous entries (which I have not played.)
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
Same.

To piggyback on this: I want to pick this up, but I haven't played a game like this in a long time. Is it accessible enough for a lapsed Strategy person like me, Era? The reviews seem to indicate that it's a bit easier to learn than previous entries (which I have not played.)

It is probably the most accessible paradox grand strategy game there is.
Maybe Stellaris, but the UI on this game is a tiny miracle because while there is a lot of information and a lot to learn, the game does an amazing job at most of letting you know most of what you need to know without getting into menus inside of menus.

There's a learning curve, but it is completely learnable and you'll soon find out most of the crazy and wild things that happen are just actually a few clicks.
 

Sei

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
LA
Same.

To piggyback on this: I want to pick this up, but I haven't played a game like this in a long time. Is it accessible enough for a lapsed Strategy person like me, Era? The reviews seem to indicate that it's a bit easier to learn than previous entries (which I have not played.)

I hadn't played one of these in a while. I did the tutorial yesterday and got the basics down pretty fast. It was a lot easier to start up than I expected.

The only thing it didn't tell me was how weak your army is starting up, so don't start any wars too fast.
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
It is probably the most accessible paradox grand strategy game there is.
Maybe Stellaris, but the UI on this game is a tiny miracle because while there is a lot of information and a lot to learn, the game does an amazing job at most of letting you know most of what you need to know without getting into menus inside of menus.

There's a learning curve, but it is completely learnable and you'll soon find out most of the crazy and wild things that happen are just actually a few clicks.
I hadn't played one of these in a while. I did the tutorial yesterday and got the basics down pretty fast. It was a lot easier to start up than I expected.

The only thing it didn't tell me was how weak your army is starting up, so don't start any wars too fast.
Awesome, thanks! I am really intrigued by all the rp elements and sort of emergent worldbuilding. Purchase locked :)
 

tobascodagama

Member
Aug 21, 2020
1,358
After many retries, finally formed Portugal after starting with Portucale... that was kind of brutal, thank god for the Francia alliance I managed to form, they saved my ass.

I'm doing that run, too! It's surprisingly difficult. He starts with hardly levies and very bad tax income. And also Galicia was constantlyat war with either Leon or Castille, so I had their armies tromping through my territory all the time. No wonder the real life Duke Nuño died trying to gain independence from the King of Galicia.

I eventually managed to reorganise things under my heir to the point where I made a credible bid for independence from Castille (who conquered Galicia), and now I'm chasing down the last couple of counties before I can press that "Form Portugal" button.
 

barjed

Project Lead
Verified
Aug 31, 2018
1,504
Same.

To piggyback on this: I want to pick this up, but I haven't played a game like this in a long time. Is it accessible enough for a lapsed Strategy person like me, Era? The reviews seem to indicate that it's a bit easier to learn than previous entries (which I have not played.)

Paradox games are not that complex, especially if we are talking core gameplay. They tend to bloat over years and get a ton of extra bells and whistles added but Dwarf Fortress this ain't.

Now is the best time to start with CK3. It's completely vanilla, which means it's very streamlined. Don't be intimidated, really. It's also worth noting that CK is probably the easiest one to understand. Instead of the more complicated stuff of the other games like economy and trading and research you get RPG elements for managing your character.

I would say the biggest learning curve is not in the game per se but in understanding the whole feudal system, the titles, ranks, inheriting, etc.
 

Speely

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,998
Paradox games are not that complex, especially if we are talking core gameplay. They tend to bloat over years and get a ton of extra bells and whistles added but Dwarf Fortress this ain't.

Now is the best time to start with CK3. It's completely vanilla, which means it's very streamlined. Don't be intimidated, really. It's also worth noting that CK is probably the easiest one to understand. Instead of the more complicated stuff of the other games like economy and trading and research you get RPG elements for managing your character.

I would say the biggest learning curve is not in the game per se but in understanding the whole feudal system, the titles, ranks, inheriting, etc.
Yeah this sounds perfect for me, especially the bolded. Thanks :)
 

Cindres

Member
Oct 28, 2017
647
I never did click with CKII and often just drop games if I'm not hooked in like half an hour but after hearing so many stories I'm determined to power through until it hits this time.

There's more to "taking over" counties and whatnot than just having my council make up claims and then going to war right? Or inviting claimants to court if that's how that works. I've been looking down dynasties of neighbouring counties and trying to figure out if betrothing my children could help too...
 
Jun 13, 2020
1,302
So Dread seems very OP. Every time you get dangerous factions it seems like all you need to do is torture/kill some random prisoners and the vassals will leave you alone. It also decays very slowly, even without perks such as the Torturer Skill Tree.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,433
So Dread seems very OP. Every time you get dangerous factions it seems like all you need to do is torture/kill some random prisoners and the vassals will leave you alone. It also decays very slowly, even without perks such as the Torturer Skill Tree.

Does the terrified bonus stop murder plots in their tracks as well?
 

johnsmith

Member
Oct 26, 2017
910
Every time I think I know what I'm doing, something new pops up. Finally managed the switch from tribal to feudal. Making money and have good levies again. economy is great.

Make the empire of Britannia, figure I'll be good for a while because the kingdom won't split up everytime I die. But now I'm losing all my holdings. I went from 8 to 4 to 1 over 3 generations. With the empire unified there's no quick conquests for land.

wtf is going on. How can I maximize my holdings without losing them all every time i die. What's the use of any title if I don't keep the buildings under it.

I think this game is over because I can't find off any civil wars as long as I'm so weak.

My vassals can't apparently fight each other to get new land, but I can't.

Higher tier titles don't seem any use. What's the point of being an emperor if it doesn't help. Taxes seem to be way too low.

any tips on this?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,179
My ruler died in the middle of a battle that he was commanding...from obesity. You just have to laugh. His grandson had a rough start needing to subdue two factions, but with them sufficiently brought to heel things are looking much better.
 

Tempy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,333
Every time I think I know what I'm doing, something new pops up. Finally managed the switch from tribal to feudal. Making money and have good levies again. economy is great.

Make the empire of Britannia, figure I'll be good for a while because the kingdom won't split up everytime I die. But now I'm losing all my holdings. I went from 8 to 4 to 1 over 3 generations. With the empire unified there's no quick conquests for land.

wtf is going on. How can I maximize my holdings without losing them all every time i die. What's the use of any title if I don't keep the buildings under it.

I think this game is over because I can't find off any civil wars as long as I'm so weak.

My vassals can't apparently fight each other to get new land, but I can't.

Higher tier titles don't seem any use. What's the point of being an emperor if it doesn't help. Taxes seem to be way too low.

any tips on this?

This video might help -
 

A Grizzly Bear

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,096
I have Ireland and usurped Scotland. Now I'm not sure how to take over England. I'm afraid to try and challenge a claim. I'm allies with the Byzantine empire through marriage but they take a few months to get to me so I'm worried they'll stomp me before then. Any suggestions on how to weaken a bigger power?
 

Shamash

Member
Nov 25, 2019
90
Brazil
After bouncing hard from CKII due to not knowing what the heck was going on (with no idea what mapmode showed me the stuff i ruled) i'm having a blast with this one. Unifie ireland, took iceland and poached some land from England and the HRE (when the emperor was losing a war and barely had any soldiers). after doing a ironman for reuniting ireland will do some raids as a pagan.
 

johnsmith

Member
Oct 26, 2017
910
This video might help -


Not really. I thought once I created an Empire everything would fall within my primary heir's ownership, because everything else was dejure part of it. I guess the problem is when it all comes down to it, your economic power needs to be focused in a Duchy even if you're an empire. Is that right? And I need to make sure that Duchy is my realm capital so generation to generation I at least keep those.

And what's the penalty for having too may holdings? When the amount you can hold varies from generation to generation it seems it really bites you in the ass to give any way if you get an heir later that has better stewardship. Would I just be better off holding them but getting no benefit from them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,179
I have Ireland and usurped Scotland. Now I'm not sure how to take over England. I'm afraid to try and challenge a claim. I'm allies with the Byzantine empire through marriage but they take a few months to get to me so I'm worried they'll stomp me before then. Any suggestions on how to weaken a bigger power?

If they have partition inheritance and multiple children, an unfortunate accident for the ruler would weaken them by splitting up their holdings (and thus reducing their levy size).
 

tobascodagama

Member
Aug 21, 2020
1,358
I guess the problem is when it all comes down to it, your economic power needs to be focused in a Duchy even if you're an empire.

That's one way. It's definitely wise to always have your personal holdings be as well-developed as possible, particularly the capital since your primary heir will always get it with all forms of succession. But also keep in mind that the amount your vassals contribute depends on both their feudal contract and their opinion of you. Usually, vassals all have a low opinion of their liege right after a succession, so they won't be giving you the maximum required by their contract until you butter them up some. The Councillor has a "domestic affairs" task that can help with that, in addition to Feasts, Gifts, and Sway.
 

decoyplatypus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,614
Brooklyn
I never really got the hang of building/developing holdings in CK2 (I mean, at any level more sophisticated than "when I've got money to spare, let's build some infrastructure so that I can have more gold/levies"). What should I watch/read to do better than random guessing with that aspect in CK3?
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,433
also curious about the legacies stuff, i get the feeling i'm gonna be just dumping on whatever is most useful in the immediate moment
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,179
After more than 100 years as a vassal, I had finally managed to break free. And with my young ruler in his 30s who had already grabbed the prophet perk and was racking up piety pretty quickly, I was not too far away from being able to reform the Asatru faith...only for him to die under 'mysterious circumstances' and leave me as a six year old kid.

Crusader Kings really knows how to give you those lows right after the highs.
 

Sblargh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,926
Thoughts on the Norse and the kinky shit I chose as religion:

- Elections are somewhat fun and VERY useful for keeping kingdoms unified before having an empire, but it has a very big downside is that you basically don't know who your heir will be, which is bad for some reasons:
- - You can't always secure that the reformed religion will be the empire religion after a transition
- - Your counties and duchies are all over the place, so the very good advice of having a developed area as your base you keep regardless doesn't work when the elected heir is an unlanded random cousin
- - When you have multiple kingdoms and are trying to form an empire, elections are probably best, but after forming an empire, it's just a headache. You want a very clear linear line holding it all together with at least one very clear well developed duchy to serve as your bank. Having an unlanded emperor will just mean debt and he will probably be unseated by a faction anyway. Actually, in my game, I just let them take the throne and just voted back in to have another faction take away again. All the while I was making no money and my army was basically the men-at-arms. It wasn't nice. I'm thinking of dropping this game as I don't really like that this chaos is where I am going forward.

- The norse expand like crazy while tribal. Without my envolvement, they captured the entire british islands, the iberian Peninsula, part of italy, and a chunk of France, too. Yep, those people up North, they just took it all.
A very bad downside: they took so much they formed new empires and so on the transition, part of the De Jure Scandinavia became Brittany, which, you know, fuck off, keep your dirty island, who needs it? Also A LOT of random kingdoms around Europe, which, you know, you can keep it. I really just wanted the De Jure scandinavia, but now I have this nightmare of dotted random land around the world, dragging me into wars for land I don't care at all. Even the "You can create 25 titles" thing started to annoy me. It became too big and too bloated and out of my control because my vassals were doing all the conquering.

- Being tribal is excellent tho because you pay most things with prestige instead of money. You actually use money for very little, mostly to create and usurp titles, which give you prestige, which allow you to hire more armies, and so on and so on and that's how you snowball. Prestige is very easy to acquire and having it as your main currency borders on OP. But then you go feudal. And now prestige is useless and money is everything. And I keep wondering if I can sell my dignity because I am always broke, but fabulous and famous.
- - It's odd that expanding and holding land is that easier as a tribe, isn't it supposed to be the other way around? I even ask myself if it is worth it, at all, if it is not just straight up better to remain a tribe for the entire game and just not develop technologically. You lose on buildings that produce money, but money is for nothing when the armies cost prestige. You lose on forts, too, but, will you ever really need to defend yourself? If I have enormous ammount of time, I will try to remain tribal for centuries because paying with prestige that you get by, lol, romancing people for example, is bananas.

- As for my religion choices:
- - Allowing "progressive" things such as permitting homossexuality and gender equality is very very good because you are no longer losing potentially good people to irrelevant shit.
- - The same with allowing divorce and being polyamorous, tbh. I thought polyamorous would be just flavor, but just like in real life, it means not being bothered by "oh no this person is cheating on this person the scandal", nah, it doesn't matter, keep being my spymaster with 23 skill, who cares if you are cheating?
- - Divorce just not being a crime helps, but in the end the Polyamorous tenet really drives home that it doesn't matter. People with multiple lovers don't even take a reputation hit, it is not a secret, it gives no hooks, it is great and helps everything runs morte smoothly.
- - Communal Identity is kind of necessary, I feel, because having your religion take over is not as simple as I thought, who would think people would be slow to change everything they believe in?
- - Carnal Exaltation was flavor lol, useless, I think I should have chosen anything else, really.
 

A Grizzly Bear

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,096
Just realized my heir will lose Kingdom of Alba to his younger brother on High Partition succession. Would destroying the title to the kingdom prevent that? I want to test it but the last time I tried to save scum it ate the save and I was tuck with my decision.

If they have partition inheritance and multiple children, an unfortunate accident for the ruler would weaken them by splitting up their holdings (and thus reducing their levy size).
I had not thought about that. Now to get a competent spymaster that isn't a year away from dying so I can fulfill this plan.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,433
that's hilarious that progressivism is OP because of numbers stuff. Love it
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,406
Nope. Being Intimidated by a character makes other characters much much much less likely to join in Murder schemes against them.
Oh, thanks for the correction!

I guess that makes sense if it's a genuine fear that a character has of the dreaded one. I was thinking it was more a general reputation thing.
 

barjed

Project Lead
Verified
Aug 31, 2018
1,504

With confederate partition, your titles get split on death. Sure, you retain your highest one and your primary holding but the rest goes bye bye.

Now that you are feudal, you are able to modify your succession laws. Change them to primogeniture and it will work like you think it should - your heir will get all your titles on your death.
 

Sei

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
LA
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VKVHhm8.png


I murdered Thomas in the woods so that my heir could marry the heiress of Denmark...

Then my second heir got murdered.
 
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sweetmini

Member
Jun 12, 2019
3,921
I will have to take a break from playing the game too late i think, my last night's nightmare :
Your Heir is not of your dynasty

and me trying to solve it without success...
a UI dream is not a good dream... i want to dream of fields and love and adventure... not of clicking to find a spouse and scheme murders
 

greatgeek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,812
With confederate partition, your titles get split on death. Sure, you retain your highest one and your primary holding but the rest goes bye bye.

Now that you are feudal, you are able to modify your succession laws. Change them to primogeniture and it will work like you think it should - your heir will get all your titles on your death.
Primogeniture, though, is a mid/late game innovation for most cultures, I believe. Maintaining power over a large realm subject to partition is inescapably a complex balancing act of maintaining strong vassal relations, curtailing vassal blobbing, having foreign/domestic alliances to fall back on, developing your core demense, and acquiring new demense for heirs (through conquest, inheritance, or title revocation), and probably a number of other things not coming to mind.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,073
So is there a list somewhere of the rulers that are unplayable due to their starting conditions?



If there is I would appreciate a link. I am kind of tired of wasting time on situations that are unwinnable from the start.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,073
Huh, is there such rulers?
In my experience? Yes. I just had 3 tries as Hungary end almost immediately because of a vassal uprising in less than a year after I start. All of my vassals started the game hating my guts and immediately made a faction against me. Not only that but the faction included literally every single vassal I had so I was left with less than 400 soldiers each time.


And no there was nothing I could do to stop it. My intrigue is not high enough to kill the heir they support or their ringleader. I don't have enough money to bribe them into liking me and I don't have enough time to make the money needed. Which means I also don't have the money for mercenaries. I do not have the kind of clout or family members to create alliances with any major players. The best I could do was Croatia and Sweden and even THEN I got either captured or destroyed by the time Sweden could even show up. I also appointed all of the most powerful vassals to my council even though they all were terrible stat wise. I even tried swearing fealty to the HRE but that did fuck all to help me. No matter what I do the entire kingdom rises up against me and kills/captures me and since I start so young I have no heir.


I wasted over an hour trying to make it work. But it never did. Just got overthrew 3 times in a row before my ruler could even reach 15. (He starts at 13)
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,087
Just because you are overthrown it doesnt mean you "lost" the game. You can try and recover from the inside...
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,072
My hiers just caught and spread the bulbuonic plague among themselves cause I didn't have a physician. Ugh. I was took picky on choosing one.
 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,380
Forming an empire while you're in the middle of the Tribal era is crazy stressful - I subjugated Kanem next door, but I was still 6 counties short of the Kanem-Bornu Empire, so I had to do some quick dealing and mopping up while my obese 75+ year old ruler clung to life. I was hoping to consecrate the bloodline, too, but evidently Humble characters can't do that...

PQ9nS52.png


In total I got up to six Kingdoms since I last checked in (which was 40 years beforehand) - Hausaland, Kanem, and Sao being the big three, with Igbo-Benue, Songhay, and Sahara along the borders. I had more Kingdoms than I had children to inherit them! Now my son (and, uhh, grandson, and brother-in-law), a Steward with dwarfism, took over, and while things are pretty precipitous I've managed to win over all of my siblings. But I'll miss Djeneba. Look at those stats! 50 Learning! Goddamn!

Meanwhile, Europe is on fire - no Holy Roman Empire, the French kingdoms are Cathar, Scotland is uniting the British Isles, and Iberia is now a war between the Muslims and the Vikings that conquered the Catholics. 867 starts are crazy.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,073
Just because you are overthrown it doesnt mean you "lost" the game. You can try and recover from the inside...
I didn't start a playthrough as the King of Hungary to claw my way up from nothing. So losing the crown is a lost game in my book. Especially when there is nothing I can do to stop it. Especially when I have no heirs, I'm 14, and I have no allies.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,951
How hard is early stages of Scandinavia? as I am trying to gauge where I am in terms of difficulty.
Started the game in 867AD as Haraldr 'Fairhair', created Kingdom of Norway title at 890AD (many years too late) and currently at 898AD trying to create Kingdom of Denmark.

Also is there a way to check previous events in-game for my lord? I am trying to find when certain things happened and how certain battles faired.

8FKBz0K.png
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,073
Holy crap I had no idea how easy the 1066 start was for the Duke of Mercia. You start off not at war with William and can choose to just not help Harold. So then I betrothed myself to Williams daughter Cecelia and then murdered my brother. Now I am the Duke of Northumbria and the Duke of Mercia. I control effectively half of England and I didn't have to fight a single battle. I'm also only 31.

hD9i1Um.png
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,072
I just seduced someone's spymaster to help murder him, then blackmailed her for being pregnant with my child so she'd murder her new kid liege. I still suck at this game, but having fun with the small things.
 
Oct 28, 2019
5,974
I didn't start a playthrough as the King of Hungary to claw my way up from nothing. So losing the crown is a lost game in my book. Especially when there is nothing I can do to stop it. Especially when I have no heirs, I'm 14, and I have no allies.

Nothing better than getting out of a seemingly hopeless situation to dominate the rest of the game. Literally better than sex.
 

sweetmini

Member
Jun 12, 2019
3,921
In my experience? Yes. I just had 3 tries as Hungary end almost immediately because of a vassal uprising in less than a year after I start. All of my vassals started the game hating my guts and immediately made a faction against me. Not only that but the faction included literally every single vassal I had so I was left with less than 400 soldiers each time.

I wasted over an hour trying to make it work. But it never did. Just got overthrew 3 times in a row before my ruler could even reach 15. (He starts at 13)

Yeah, i tried, hungary 1066 is impossible to keep... it's a phoenix story.
I gave Geza and Antal comfort of a seat, i gave a vassal each, me as ward for one of them, changed feudal contracts they were positive but still pressed the thing. If i made geza better suited than Antal, Antal pressed, otherwise Geza.

Lost cause Will.E. :(