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#CrunchNoMore I will not buy Last of Us 2. Join me
- Thread starter RexNovis
- Start date
User Banned (3 days): Ignoring staff post, whataboutism
Throw in designer clothes, phones etc..
Are you too young to remember devs and publishers opinions about second hand market/used games in 2008-2013 ? Honest question
Like supporting unions and voting for lawmakers who will crack down on exploitation.
Why did you cut off the rest of my post that directly addressed why the Lost sale isn't as large a factor. And why it doesn't send a message at all.
Of course I know about the opinions of the gaming industry, but you missed the point entirely by cutting off what I said and then giving me a copy paste of what two companies said.
Of course I know about the opinions of the gaming industry, but you missed the point entirely by cutting off what I said and then giving me a copy paste of what two companies said.
do you really believe the rest of your post brings any kind of information that contradicts the quotes I used about what companies believe about used games?
if so, keep the good fight kiddo, I will waste my time elsewhere
A boycott for majority of AAA games is that CoD MW2 picture. lol
Its not going to dent it and as others have said it just hurts everyone more.
Exactly.
Its not going to dent it and as others have said it just hurts everyone more.
Exactly.
What are what seems like a few thousand at best compared to probably tens of millions over a few years who will buy TLOU 2? A boycott only makes sense if the company feels or even notices that there is a boycott. This will not make anyone change anything sadly. So I am not taking part. There have to be other ways to reduce crush.
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User Banned (3 days): Ignoring staff post
Would love to know how many of the boycotters here are gonna end up playing the game. Or how many are posting from their IPhones.
This should be saved and posted in every future boycott thread.
Nope. It's the only game I'm looking forward to in a big way this year tbh. Even cyberpunk (which you would also have to avoid buying) isn't hyping me up as much as last of us 2.
The industry does needs to change, admittedly. The same with the tech, food, and fashion industry do. But realistically 1000 people (if you're lucky) on a forum boycotting it isn't going to do it.
And where exactly do you draw a line in your principles? ND? The industry as a whole? Or maybe the cheap exploitative chinese labour who make practically ALL of your tech?
I'll just wait for these industries to maybe better themselves on their own rather than naively thinking I have any sort of impact in the world to force it to.
I'll at least get to play some amazing games in the meantime.
The industry does needs to change, admittedly. The same with the tech, food, and fashion industry do. But realistically 1000 people (if you're lucky) on a forum boycotting it isn't going to do it.
And where exactly do you draw a line in your principles? ND? The industry as a whole? Or maybe the cheap exploitative chinese labour who make practically ALL of your tech?
I'll just wait for these industries to maybe better themselves on their own rather than naively thinking I have any sort of impact in the world to force it to.
I'll at least get to play some amazing games in the meantime.
If your argument is even remotely true, then why are used game shops still allowed to exist? If you even remotely had a point, you'd see that companies would be allowed to take them to court and win. Except, that's not the case now is it? All you did was copy paste a company complaining about used games sales without an objective analysis into whether that's actually true or not. The info you cut out, I provided a model to showpeople that their attempts to protest by buying used games is half-assed and misguided at best. Especially considering that these games are multimillion sales (read multiple posts here that say they are still going to buy the game).
Also, your post assumes that companies don't lie about their intentions. Like how many times have we seen companies justify MTX as "well we just want to sell you MORE of the game!!!"
I just want to reiterate: If this was a smaller game that wasn't as beloved getting this publicity, would we be seeing more people on board with the boycott? The mood here, even 21 pages in, seems to be "sucks but getting the game anyways because reasons". I'm not hating on anyone who isn't boycotting or really making an opinion on those who are. I just have trouble seeing any sincerity in the opinions given the subject matter. I'm curious as to if the bias toward ND's quality games is shrouding peoples' judgement.
Would a Naughty Dog dev want me to not buy the product they have put metaphorical blood, sweat and tears in to, to make a point? Doubt it. Im buying TLOU2.
OP
OP
Given the suggestions and response to the idea of creating a resource thread dedicated to tracking the status of work in studios and publishers in this industry I will be drafting up just such a thread to be posted sometime later this weekend.
Any help or assistance in the creation of either the thread, the tracking or the messaging would be greatly appreciated. I will be the first to acknowledge that this sort of thing is absolutely not my strong suit but it's important and it obviously needs to be done
Any help or assistance in the creation of either the thread, the tracking or the messaging would be greatly appreciated. I will be the first to acknowledge that this sort of thing is absolutely not my strong suit but it's important and it obviously needs to be done
I already got the game pre ordered and I'm not going to change it.
I respect anyone who decides to boycott Naughty Dog, but I believe that if you want to be taken seriously anyone boycotting TLOU2 should also boycott any other game from devs that are know to crunch. Not doing so would be at minimum hypocrisy from you guys.
Have you played GTA OP? Destiny? Halo? Call of Duty? I hope you're boycotting those games too, or else how would you explain taking such drastic measures against only one developer?
Just my 2 cents.
I respect anyone who decides to boycott Naughty Dog, but I believe that if you want to be taken seriously anyone boycotting TLOU2 should also boycott any other game from devs that are know to crunch. Not doing so would be at minimum hypocrisy from you guys.
Have you played GTA OP? Destiny? Halo? Call of Duty? I hope you're boycotting those games too, or else how would you explain taking such drastic measures against only one developer?
Just my 2 cents.
Honestly this is way more effective in the long term (and we are thinking long term here, aren't we?), and voting with your wallet doesn't even necessarily send the right message.
Let's support unions and political change for workers, regardless of the industry.
So I'm not sure how to ask - but I guess there's no nice way to put it...
Aren't we screwed no matter what we do? I totally agree that crunch is a practice that is absolutely abhorrent and needs to be gone from the industry, but I'm not sure boycotting the game is the best way (or is it?)
My worry is affecting game sales jeopardises their job security - my worry is that as a lot of companies seem to get rid of the workforce to exploit profits etc so my concern is that we'd have another terrible scenario on our hands?
It's just a terrible situation...
Aren't we screwed no matter what we do? I totally agree that crunch is a practice that is absolutely abhorrent and needs to be gone from the industry, but I'm not sure boycotting the game is the best way (or is it?)
My worry is affecting game sales jeopardises their job security - my worry is that as a lot of companies seem to get rid of the workforce to exploit profits etc so my concern is that we'd have another terrible scenario on our hands?
It's just a terrible situation...
I don't want to join. I don't even care about crunch. These are adults who are being compensated, and in the case of Naughty Dog the article says that they're upfront with new hires about the crunch culture there. Some of the employees enjoy it and some don't. They lost a lot of employees after Uncharted 4; as far as I'm concerned that's how the issue should be handled. The fact is that artistic endeavors require blood, sweat, and tears a lot of the time. Some people are willing to give that. More power to the ones who aren't, but let them find another place to work.
Something tells me the people working their asses off at Naughty Dog are in it for more than just getting paid.
I don't work for a AAA studio, but I do work on something heavily involved in the industry and I can tell you that getting paid is nice (and a big part of it), but most of us don't work long hours for just a paycheck.
A lot of it is to create something significant, that is personally fulfilling, that fans enjoy. Something you can be proud of.
So this is going to end up hurting the devs as they might not get their bonuses from the games sales, because people thought that by not buying the game it would somehow fix this... nice.
Like everyone has been saying, if you want to do something about it elect politicians who are for unions and actually do something about it.
Like everyone has been saying, if you want to do something about it elect politicians who are for unions and actually do something about it.
I mean, that goes with any big production. It's why people kind of shrugged their shoulders when stories came out about the working conditions surrounding Red Dead Redemption 2. Or fuck, if we're going to go there, Chick Fil A still turning profit year over year. The mass majority is, for good or bad, going to prioritize their personal enjoyment of the product over a moral stand.
Not trying to pass the buck either, but stuff like this isn't going to be settled with threats of boycott, but the devs actually unionizing to improve their working conditions.
So far as I can tell, no one was forced or even asked to crunch, and people get hired knowing they'll have to.
I see no reason to boycott and tell all those people who worked to make an all-time great game that my sense of corporate ethics is more important than their ambition and talent.
I see no reason to boycott and tell all those people who worked to make an all-time great game that my sense of corporate ethics is more important than their ambition and talent.
This is where I'm at. Maybe it's because I'm familiar with it in my own industry, but, my company is the best in the world at what we do because we have lots of people who bust their ass to hit deadlines. Plenty of people aren't comfortable with that, and that's genuinely fine, but, I don't get the point in shaming those that stick through it.
The only thing I've read so far that's grossed me out is them holding that one guy's pay ransom.
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I know, its laughable. Some in this thread take this stuff very seriously. I mean try and gain some perspective here.
Probably been said earlier, but not buying a game because dev's worked their asses off on it is incredibly stupid. The best gift you could actually do to them is buy the game, at least they'll get their bonuses and you'll appreciate the work they put into it.
The reaction to this thread has been quite shocking, at least based on what I thought the general concensus of ERA would have been.
I've been feverishly looking forward to playing this, but frankly if that signifies that I'm comfortable paying for products that aren't ethically made then I'm out from now on.
And for all of you saying that boycotting crunch would result in devs losing jobs or hurting their creative input? First of all that's a sunk-cost fallacy, and secondly if crunch stopped making any studios money it would stop. All that would be left are companies that don't crunch. That's how a social movement works.
Unfortunately it'll never come to that because people are terrible at depriving themselves of the things that they want, myself included. It's the whole reason so much capitalism is hoisted upon the shoulders of cheap outsourced labour, and why chains like Starbucks continue to make record profits despite some of their coffee coming from farms employing the labour of children as young as 8 years old.
So please, boycott or don't. You will ultimately do you, but at least try to think critically about the message you send if you do or don't choose to support a cause through your actions.
I've been feverishly looking forward to playing this, but frankly if that signifies that I'm comfortable paying for products that aren't ethically made then I'm out from now on.
And for all of you saying that boycotting crunch would result in devs losing jobs or hurting their creative input? First of all that's a sunk-cost fallacy, and secondly if crunch stopped making any studios money it would stop. All that would be left are companies that don't crunch. That's how a social movement works.
Unfortunately it'll never come to that because people are terrible at depriving themselves of the things that they want, myself included. It's the whole reason so much capitalism is hoisted upon the shoulders of cheap outsourced labour, and why chains like Starbucks continue to make record profits despite some of their coffee coming from farms employing the labour of children as young as 8 years old.
So please, boycott or don't. You will ultimately do you, but at least try to think critically about the message you send if you do or don't choose to support a cause through your actions.
It's not even just devs that have to deal with "crunch". Many retail/service workers deal with something extremely similar every year around Black Friday. Doctors, lawyers, police, firefighters, and many other professions routinely deal with working much more than 40 hours per week. It's unfortunate but it's fairly common in our society.
No.
Devs are grown ups that can form unions if they want. Hell, they could just form their own union within ND to diminish crunch time. What's management going to do, fire the entire staff? It's not my job nor is it really effective for me to advocate for them.
Devs are grown ups that can form unions if they want. Hell, they could just form their own union within ND to diminish crunch time. What's management going to do, fire the entire staff? It's not my job nor is it really effective for me to advocate for them.
This is insightful and should be theardmarked.
The games industry is toxic but boycotts will make things just worse for the employees. It's a sad state, since we can't change that, we can just make it worse.
I will buy The Last of Us 2 twice.
Crunching extends to almost every product people on this very forum buy. People want to talk about Naughty Dog and Rockstar? Lol CDPR crunched to new heights for The Witcher 3, and that game is a fan favorite on this forum.
This is a very insightful post.
Crunching extends to almost every product people on this very forum buy. People want to talk about Naughty Dog and Rockstar? Lol CDPR crunched to new heights for The Witcher 3, and that game is a fan favorite on this forum.
Nah when it comes to topics like this. This is exactly how Era behaves.
They don't give a singular fuck how something is made, or how their favourite authors are treated (in the case of comics and so forth) just as long as they get their thing. That's all they care about.
You saw the same attitude when the voice actors went on strike. And even see when it's on the topic of the games industry unionising.
Era has a very fuck you got mine attitude. (which is not just limited to the gaming side, it's the same in the OT also) It's very depressing to see.
Which is why those professions have unions.
And why it's sorely lacking in the games industry.
Thank you for taking the time to post this. As it gives much need insight into a very closed industry.
Indie games too, I don't think there's a single game I've worked on that didn't have crunch. Even if your company is wholely against crunch, when the people with the money want you to, you do it. Especially as an indie company because if you don't then suddenly all your friends can't afford to survive any more. It's stressful.