#CrunchNoMore I will not buy Last of Us 2. Join me

[sirap]

Let's be real here. If the majority of ERA really cared about the rights and health of those working behind the scenes, the pinned thread about Uyghur Muslims being forced to manufacture products for Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft would've gotten a lot more attention.

And yet that thread is a week old and it barely has many posts as this one.

 

[ZeroReaper]

So people are happy to play games from studios that don't crunch but happily ignore they are playing those games on hardware made in even worst conditions.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Do you have proof that I ignored the thread? How would you know if I lurked the thread or not? How would you know my stance on slave labor?

You don't, you're running on assumptions.

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Wow, you're so close to a personal revelation! Just a little more, I'm cheering for you!

Spoiler

This is, literally, exactly, precisely the same thing you did to people in this thread.

 

[Era of not Yakuza]

Well your first sentence is directly referencing the original post followed by saying that people here don't care about the health of workers. The OP is discussing crunch, and how he is boycotting the game. If that wasn't your intention and you were talking about the conference thread then cool.

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In fact I was thinking about one specific member when I made that post, but since he was called out so many times in that thread I thought it would be unnecessary.
My intention was to say to OP that many would come to trash his opinion.

 

[Angst]

Cool. Ill get it used.

Do better Naughty Dog.

 

[Weltall Zero]

So people are happy to play games from studios that don't crunch but happily ignore they are playing those games on hardware made in even worst conditions.

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[Ruisu]

Idk OP, maybe I'm too cynical but I don't think a boycott is the answer here. I don't want to support crunch, but there plenty of stuff in games like Last of Us 2 that I do want to support so for me it feels like measuring what's more important in the long run.

 

[SmittyWerbenManJensen]

I wasn't going to buy it anyway. Glad I can help. But, as others have stated, lots of other games have endured the crunch, which is sad.

 

[LukasHeinzel]

I'm sure they'll want to keep all their jobs after TLoU2, and I'm sure they'll want to receive their bonuses.

This is on Sony and ND's management. But by boycotting the game you are also directly affecting the developers who have gone through hell and back to make this game what it is.

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The majority gets let go anyways.

 

[Lylo]

Did anyone posted the Call of Duty boycott gif yet?

 

[ShinUltramanJ]

Let's be real here. If the majority of ERA really cared about the rights and health of those working behind the scenes, the pinned thread about Uyghur Muslims being forced to manufacture products for Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft would've gotten a lot more attention.

And yet that thread is a week old and it barely has many posts as this one.

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Selective boycotting's the big thing. It's real easy to get on the soap box and attack the companies you don't care for. But the line is drawn when it comes to personal favorites.

 

[Jamie]

If it was another company, you might have gotten more people aboard and even a wave for good measure. A first party Sony studio? Yeah, that's tough to get people to look the other way.

For me, I'll stand by certain boycotts such as if racism/Homophobia is involved. I do agree with the stand against Crunch, but I also think those involved (the workers) should take a stand as well.

 

[Champion]

"Woke" posters on Resetera showing their true colors in here.

 

[Zaki2407]

Boycotting a game because if this? Nope. Will still by the game.

 

[jaymzi]

I shall join you by boycotting the big AAA games I have no interest in.

 

[Equanimity]

Is there an example of videogame/studio related boycott producing the desired affect?

 

[Agamon]

If you want to do this for your own mental health, that's great. If you're doing this because you think it'll help lead to change, I have some bad news...

 

[Lionheart]

Look at the top of forum, that'sa much more serious issue, do you op but are you boycotting all console manufacturers engaging in the concentration-like camps to produce those boxes?

 

[itshutton]

If people boycotted the game en masse (which will never happen), you would just be hurting the developer bonuses.

Unfortunately this is life. Most industries have terrible working hours for salaried employees. But the salary and bonuses are reflective of that.

 

[Jonnax]

But if the full time employees are breaking themselves crunching I'm presuming part of it is for a sales related bonus?

Of course there's a lot of staff that are contractors who won't get any such thing.

I think what's likely is more than ND is going to have an exodus after launch.
They shipped Last of us 2, but it destroyed them in the process.
I'm sure other job opportunities will be available

 

[Moby]

Let's be real here. If the majority of ERA really cared about the rights and health of those working behind the scenes, the pinned thread about Uyghur Muslims being forced to manufacture products for Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft would've gotten a lot more attention.

And yet that thread is a week old and it barely has many posts as this one.

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Simply this. Majority couldn't give a shit about a more serious situation. Also absolute wrong game/developer to try this with, it's a load of shit that company's get away with it but they are a juggernaut and the game will smash sales. Another approach is needed but I got no ideas.

 

[RedHeat]

Sorry, I feel for the devs but I've been waiting for this game for years.

 

[Absolute]

Let's be real here. If the majority of ERA really cared about the rights and health of those working behind the scenes, the pinned thread about Uyghur Muslims being forced to manufacture products for Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft would've gotten a lot more attention.

And yet that thread is a week old and it barely has many posts as this one.

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There are so many posters I see in other threads fighting the good fight that have not posted in that thread.

 

[Rafako]

It's an easy pass for me. And if some day I have to buy it, 2nd hand will be.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

Like so many things of this nature, it's about what *you* can live with and be comfortable with.

Nothing anyone here does will impact the bottom line of an already-popular product, be it a game or a movie or music or whatever. But if you're not comfortable with how they're produced or sold or what they say, I say fuck yeah, don't buy it, feel better about your choice than if you did.

I do think there's an element of performativity in play when you make a topic about it, especially since it won't change the practice or impact the sales meaningfully, but we all do that kind of shit so I ain't judging.

 

[Poutine]

This won't change anything, no way people will boycott that big of a release , plus you are penalizing the devs in some way if it ever works since they usually get bonuses based on how much units the game sold.

 

[Okapi]

If I had to crunch to deliver a game I feel like the last thing I would want is people boycotting what I've worked so hard to achieve. I do believe something should be done against crunch I'm just not sure this is the best way to go about it...

 

[unknownspectator]

to clarify from the last post, i wont be buying the game. in truth, im moving away from gaming in general. now drawing, thats where its at.

 

[Swift_Gamer]

Let's be real here. If the majority of ERA really cared about the rights and health of those working behind the scenes, the pinned thread about Uyghur Muslims being forced to manufacture products for Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft would've gotten a lot more attention.

And yet that thread is a week old and it barely has many posts as this one.

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I think this is down to WHO this is happening to. Since it's not their country people that it's being affected, people won't care.

 

[m4st4]

Why would I boycott the only thing that's keeping me alive these days?

Not to mention boycott all of their sweat and tears?

Union is the answer, but myself as a customer will be there for TLOU Part II Day Zero.

 

[Cloud-Strife]

Look at the top of forum, that'sa much more serious issue, do you op but are you boycotting all console manufacturers engaging in the concentration-like camps to produce those boxes?

Click to shrink...

 

[xtib81]

100 something people think they will have an impact. Talk about confidence..

 

[Moby]

There are so many posters I see in other threads fighting the good fight that have not posted in that thread.

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It hurts them when it's the brand they love, never about a good fight.

 

[Deleted member 24021]

Wow, you're so close to a personal revelation! Just a little more, I'm cheering for you!

Spoiler

This is, literally, exactly, precisely the same thing you did to people in this thread.

Click to shrink...

I gotta give it to you, you're presenting a slightly more impressive argument than the last guy, but your passive aggression makes it fall flat. All I'm saying is that people should also be mad about slave labor as much as they get mad about crunch.

I'm against both. : )

 

[PAFenix]

Following an example from the last page and quoting this, since we apparently need this on every page. Still seeing people use Dev bonuses as a shield and ignored this statement mentioned before. From developers.

Only upper-management. Your average game industry person is salaried. In some instances, they don't even get extra overtime pay and it's very much an unspoken (or spoken) threat of "If you don't work overtime, you're getting fired." The people who are actually doing the crazy crunching aren't going to be seeing any bonuses.

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[Betty]

As someone who worked in this industry, I wish someone had given me mine.

Actually, I was very much looking forward to buying the game, but the reports I've heard have absolutely deterred me from getting this game at launch.

Or people who legitimately care about the health and well-being of the people who work so hard to provide you with fun and entertainment. Not everyone is a soulless, callous self-centered person only looking for attention. I can VERY much sympathize with those that suffered through crunch and it's a major reason why I have left an industry I was so in love with behind.

A boycott may not be very effective, but it's the reason I included contact links to the respective parties. I did this same thing last year with Mortal Kombat 11 when reports of crunch began to emerge. MK11 is a MASSIVE sales success, but the reports of crunch became such bad PR - which I helped proliferate - that NRS had a meeting to address the issue, improve their workflow, and massively delay their break-neck DLC plans to give their employees a healthier work schedule. That was the end-goal and it was achieved, according to the employees there I've heard from.

There will be. I promise. And I'll be there too.

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Those that are serious about this like you seem to be I have no issue with.

But we both know a boycott will not work here because the game will sell gang busters.

Writing to ND or making articles showing disagreement or disappointment will have a better effect like it did with other developers.

 

[Voke]

You'll make a better statement buy not buying AAA games in general.

 

[Lant_War]

It's a little weird how people are so eager boycott this but not the new consoles after the report that they were built using literal slave labor. Do people working in horrible conditions only matter if they're American?

 

[m4st4]

It's an easy pass for me. And if some day I have to buy it, 2nd hand will be.

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Will Cyberpunk be an easy pass as well? Just curious.

 

[plow]

What you posted is literally the definition of a whataboutism. "Why are you worried about x when y is happening" is whataboutism. Its not hypocrisy its you trying deflect attention away from ND terrible work culture.

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It's Hypocrisy if i shout out to boycott things i'm not even interested in but won't do the same in things i'm interested. It's like people telling others to stop flying because of pollution, who then go on to drive to work everyday for commodity instead of taking the train.

 

[Messofanego]

Why would I boycott the only thing that's keeping me alive these days?

Not to mention boycott all of their sweat and tears?

Union is the answer, but myself as a customer will be there for TLOU Part II Day Zero.

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How are videogames keeping you alive?

 

[Moby]

It's a little weird how people are so eager boycott this but not the new consoles after the report that they were built using literal slave labor. Do people working in horrible conditions only matter if they're American?

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Most that are voicing the boycotting don't even own the platform it is on.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Let's be real here. If the majority of ERA really cared about the rights and health of those working behind the scenes, the pinned thread about Uyghur Muslims being forced to manufacture products for Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft would've gotten a lot more attention.

And yet that thread is a week old and it barely has many posts as this one.

Click to shrink...

Let me say that I appreciated a lot your efforts in contacting the major sites, and I was pretty pissed that most are ignoring it. I'm still somehow shocked every time gaming sites choose to ignore social matters when it can potentially affect their relationships with publishers, like with the 8chan AMA.

But the reasons this thread has more posts are mainly two:
1) All the people actively saying they will not boycott over such a minor thing (which obviously they're less prone to declare in the Uyghur thread... not that their actions will be any different).
2) All the people using whataboutism to dismiss it, using precisely the Uyghur thread and their relative post counts (which is particularly hypocritical because, 95% of people doing so never posted or engaged with the thread themselves, and I have a lot of trouble believing these people will actually give a second thought to buying new gen consoles when they release).

Seriously, read this thread, don't just look at the post count. Disagreement simply fosters more discussion volume than agreement.

 

[Antwix]

It's a little weird how people are so eager boycott this but not the new consoles after the report that they were built using literal slave labor. Do people working in horrible conditions only matter if they're American?

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Exactly what I came to say. Not to mention many electronics, shoes and various other types of clothing. This boycott is 100% hypocritical. OP probably owns an iPhone.

 

[MegaManTrigger]

After what happened with Pokemon, I have absolutely zero faith that gamers will hold to their word. This is going to result in TLoU2 selling like gangbusters, and people getting mad.

 

[Ruu]

I'm all for supporting any measure to help bring awareness to crunch. I wasn't going to get it anyway so my support doesn't really matter. I do wonder though if a more wide reaching boycott would be required. Cause theres like a couple indie games that don't crunch. Every AAA game crunches. I left EA cause of how bad it would get not even at the end of a cycle (that and I wanted to make my own games). We'd just like randomly be like hey lets work 60-70 hours this week. On the other hand choosing one very high profile game to boycott maybe is the approach to take? It's hard to say, basically I don't have much to add but this industry needs to unionize.

 

[chimpsteaks]

I am gonna play this game but I will support any new labor laws that address the problems of the games industry. I feel like that's where the real change needs to be made - it shouldn't have to be the role of the consumer to pressure companies into treating their employees adequately.

 

[DontHateTheBacon]

If the game doesn't bomb, they're still getting fired because they never had a full-time job there in the first place. That's how a crunch-focused company works - they hire a bunch of temporary labor without benefits to get stuff done as quickly as possible. Of the full-time employees, there's high turnover due to the toxic environment so even with the full-time employees, they're paying the minimum amount. When a game succeeds & sells a lot, the management benefits from it, not the rank & file people who were doing the crazy work to make it in the first place.

To put it another way, for these kinds of companies, employee burn out isn't a bug, it's a feature. If everyone quits before they reach seniority and can start demanding better pay & more benefits, it keeps costs low.

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Christ. That's depressing. At some point, it's hard not to wonder why people keep working in the industry.

...but then you realize, maybe it's the same answer as any other industry with extremely high burnout and turnover; money, passion and optimism?

Also, I'm sorry to hear about your personal story. Thanks for the serious replies and I'm hoping you don't have to work under those circumstances anymore. People deserve better.

 

[Kewlmyc]

Power to you OP. I actually do respect everyone doing the boycott. I guarantee it's not going to work, but its the thought that counts, and good for you for standing up for your morals.

That being said, I also hope you don't also buy the next gen of consoles, own an iPhone or any cellular device, and so forth.

 

[werezompire]

"If I give money to this company that is exploiting workers, the money will trickle down to the exploited workers."

Everyone sees the flaw in that logic, right? They're not exploiting their workers because it's the only way to make ends meet and they're all in this together. Exploiting their workers is a business strategy. A company that is exploiting their workers isn't giving sales-based royalties to those workers. Giving them more money in the hopes that they'll be nicer to their employees just reinforces that what they're currently doing is working.

Buy the game or don't buy the game. There are questionable issues all over the industry & the world and it's not my place to tell you where to draw the lines when it comes to buying & enjoying media. I'm a pessimist in that I don't think people are going to rally around stuff like this the point where it sends a message, but stop trying to justify buying a game made by a company with questionable business practices as being a virtuous action that's benefiting the low-level worker who is getting exploited. It's not. They're not getting fat bonuses if the game sells a gazillion copies. And stop telling people that unless they do everything on every issue ever (which is literally impossible), they're a hypocrite for picking 1 issue that they want to do something on. Using wrongdoings elsewhere as an excuse to bully people into maintain the status quo is wrong.