#CrunchNoMore I will not buy Last of Us 2. Join me

Shining Star · Mar 13, 2020

You're just wasting all their work if you boycott it, like they crunched for nothing. Maybe that's worth it to bring about change, I don't know. But I think raising awareness and making your voice heard while also supporting them by getting it on day one is the best thing to do really.

MizziPizzi · Mar 13, 2020

Ehhhh...No I don't think I will.
I'll buy the game so their hard work at least means something! But I definitely agree that it needs to be more controlled! I mean the part about one employee getting hospitalised is awful!
I'm a software developer myself and we have to crunch from time to time but that rarely lasts for more than 2-3 weeks and is usually followed by some mandatory slacking/cool down period..

Deleted member 44122 · Mar 13, 2020

if you dont like crunch you should probably stop playing video games altogether, cause this happens with every publisher supported game

Deleted member 24021 · Mar 13, 2020

Bonejack said:
What is more likely:

A change in the working processes in "1st world" country companies where people actually have a chance to do that, unionize and what not?

Or

Solving one of the biggest problems in this world: The iron-tight grip that China has over EVERYONE, companies and other countries a like, to the point where they can freely do fucked up shit like slavery?

Doesn't matter which is more likely. The hypocrisy is laughable.

Deleted member 2791 · Mar 13, 2020

This thread is essentially a good example of why this website's self-made reputation as a progressive and liberal, worker-supporter place is hilarious and couldnt be further from the truth.

Kalentan · Mar 13, 2020

RexNovis said:
the only reason social media pressure would work is because the companies behind the game believes it will impact their bottom line. People espousing that spending your money on the game doesn't matter are consolatory missing the entire point of spreading awareness. The two go hand in hand.

Except social media pressure does work even if it doesn't effect their bottom line. Do you think at any point Rockstar thought that the outcry about their insane crunch would make RDR2 sell worse? No, never. Yet, while they still have ways to go, we do know that the studio has been making efforts to reduce Crunch and all of that can be attributed to Schreier article and continued conversation about it. But never once did the idea of RDR2 selling worse ever crossed Rockstars mind.

aerobinson · Mar 13, 2020

I wasn't planning to anyway. The first game felt like doing fucked up chores to me

TheGummyBear · Mar 13, 2020

AyaisMUsikWhore said:
Yeah this is very true. I've already put this in motion unconsciously. I don't buy games day one anymore (exception is animal crossing 😭) . However as with more news about this stuff happens, making a blanket statement to dismiss this actual thing, regardless if it is VERY OBVIOUS that AAA development leads to this, doesn't make it right. But I mean, on a forum....we are talking into the wind. The GP won't care and aren't as invested in gaming news as the rest of us here.

And can we not do this? When it was blessed Rockstar the same thing happened...and if it was blessed CD Project Red, it would happen too and blessed Nintendo or whomever. Let's stop making it seem like it's a ND exclusive feature.

There's this weird affixation of people more concerned about how fanboys are letting this slide rather than how people in general will make this slide no matter who it is. The exception to this has always been if you are the least favorite by pretty much everyone (A la EA)

I never suggested that it was exclusive to ND. My point is that other studios that rely on crunch get torn apart here on era.

Yet in this thread the prevailing opinion appears to be that crunch is okay because slave labour exists.

Ghost Slayer · Mar 13, 2020

Bonejack said:
What is more likely:

A change in the working processes in "1st world" country companies where people actually have a chance to do that, unionize and what not?

Or

Solving one of the biggest problems in this world: The iron-tight grip that China has over EVERYONE, companies and other countries a like, to the point where they can freely do fucked up shit like slavery?

So what outcome do you expect if we boycott? ND fix their shit management? Im sure it worked before we boycott other games.

cowbanana · Mar 13, 2020

Passing Assassin said:
Actually, you can.

You can, but it's a very weak stance. Give up something that truly matters to you, like your electronics, for the betterment of others - and I'll applaud you.

Wonkertonk · Mar 13, 2020

Jonneh said:
May I ask why you're grilling me on this? I'm genuinely curious what you want out of this

Well, at the moment you're condemning people for their view on the matter--clearly it's a topic you feel that change is essential (good on you). At this time, your idea is to express your discontent verbally yet are still buying the game.

So, whilst you are saying the "right" things, you're not actually doing anything about it, thus making you just as "bad" as the people you are condemning. However, I was curious to hear the steps that you are planning in order to verbalise your discontent, hence me asking if you might consider making a video.

Tremorah · Mar 13, 2020

I wont be buying it full price

DrDeckard · Mar 13, 2020

pswii60 said:
I'm sure they'll want to keep all their jobs after TLoU2, and I'm sure they'll want to receive their bonuses.

This is on Sony and ND's management. But by boycotting the game you are also directly affecting the developers who have gone through hell and back to make this game what it is.

From hearing about how Naughty Dog actually works, and the sheer amount of turnover, no I don't think a lot of staff want to keep their job after the project is finished. In fact evidence points to this not being the case.

To me, If i was extremely young. It looks like the main positives are.

Training from senior pro's in the industry which will better your skill set.
Job ops from working there.
Experiencing one of the most praised studios in the industry by it's fans for delivering incredible linear focused experiences. (wrongfully praised when taking into the practices from Jason's article and testimonies from ex staff).
Learning what you want from the industry...and what you don't want to ever experience again.

Just a few points i can think of.

Eeyore · Mar 13, 2020

Passing Assassin said:
This thread is essentially a good example of why this website's self-made reputation as a progressive and liberal, worker-supporter place is hilarious and couldnt be further from the truth.

You've been here since essentially the beginning what are you doing to change this? I would hope more than this since you don't seem averse to pointing fingers.

TheGhost · Mar 13, 2020

TheInfinityGauntlet said:
You really just said I'm not okay with crunch but only if it's reported on lmao

I mean do you not work in a office and sometimes you put in a extra hour on Wednesday and Thursday so your Friday doesn't suck? That's not crunch that's work ethic.

But when you have people ending up in the hospital just over a damn video game? It's disgusting.

Wireframe · Mar 13, 2020

aevanhoe · Mar 13, 2020

Brews said:
The game, to me, looked like shit from the beginning and I had no interest in buying. Guess I can sprinkle in some light boycott as well at this point.

Not really a boycott then. Not even light. Also, you can say many things about the game - that it's not for you, not interesting to you, you don't like games like that - but saying it "looked like shit from the beginning" is just silly.

As for me, I don't believe that boycotts work or give good results. I work in a gamedev company and no one likes crunch, but believe me, one of the biggest soul-crushing experiences is crunching on a game and then that game failing.

Oliver James · Mar 13, 2020

I will be buying the complete edition on the PS5.

Volkama · Mar 13, 2020

Should we stop tipping or going to cafes to improve the pay of waiters?

Torpedo Vegas · Mar 13, 2020

I just didn't care for the first one after playing it.

zMiiChy- · Mar 13, 2020

Passing Assassin said:
Actually, you can.

Passing Assassin said:
This thread is essentially a good example of why this website's self-made reputation as a progressive and liberal, worker-supporter place is hilarious and couldnt be further from the truth.

Excuse me for not being able to take any of your posts seriously

Deleted member 1003 · Mar 13, 2020

pswii60 said:
I'm sure they'll want to keep all their jobs after TLoU2, and I'm sure they'll want to receive their bonuses.

This is on Sony and ND's management. But by boycotting the game you are also directly affecting the developers who have gone through hell and back to make this game what it is.

"Well, game sold like crap, gotta close the studio."

Bishop89 · Mar 13, 2020

Might as well find another hobby. Pretty sure majority of devs crunch

Deleted member 2791 · Mar 13, 2020

cowbanana said:
You can, but it's a very weak stance. Give up something that truly matters to you, like your electronics, for the betterment of others - and I'll applaud you.

Nobody gives a shit that you'll applaud them or not. What matters is what you've done, that's it.

Eeyore said:
You've been here since essentially the beginning what are you doing to change this? I would hope more than this since you don't seem averse to pointing fingers.

Changing what? This place? Nothing, it's not my responsibility. Crunch and toxic workplace in general? Im doing my best to raise awareness about it.

Unaha-Closp · Mar 13, 2020

On the one hand - forced labour to make the console and on the other crunch culture and other managerial bits and bobs to make the game to play on the console. Then ethical and societal questions can be asked about the TV you are playing it on. And the Electricity Company supplying the juice. The chair you are sitting on. The meat industry snack thing you are consuming while downloading it. The dairy industry based beverage. By all means, Boycott if you must but I am not sure it's the answer. I don't know what the answer is but it goes deeper than crunch if you want it to. Most people give no fucks. I doubt I can join this Boycott but I have not pre-ordered.

Mr.Branding · Mar 13, 2020

Joined you even before the game was announced. The first game was overhyped, and I didn't like it at all tbh.

Bonejack · Mar 13, 2020

ThePhantom said:
Doesn't matter which is more likely. The hypocrisy is laughable.

It is only if you're willing to disregard the differences between the situations. Be my guest to do that, but don't expect me to continue even talking to or with you in this case.

Ghost Slayer said:
So what outcome do you expect if we boycott? ND fix their shit management? Im sure it worked before we boycott other games.

I don't really care if you're boycotting the game or not, i also didn't comment on the impact or lack of from a boycott.

RestEerie · Mar 13, 2020

OP probably need to stop watching all Disney & pixar movies soon....

And probably post on ERA using linux instead of ios/android/windows

Samanyolu · Mar 13, 2020

Sorry, def buying. Waited too long for this and everybody in the game dev industry is crunching. I'm not going to stop buying any remotely mid-size/big game out there.

Btw, are you also going to stop buying any tech, clothes, glasses, health food, etc created in Asia? The crunch, underpaying companies, etc over there is quite real.

Deleted member 17207 · Mar 13, 2020

Bishop89 said:
Might as well find another hobby. Pretty sure majority of devs crunch

Pretty pumped for Animal Crossing which comes out next Friday.

You know, that game that was delayed from last year because Nintendo refused to force their employees to crunch to get it done.

You're not wrong, but the only way it's going to change is if people choose to

A) Stop doing it
B) Stop supporting it

Sacul64 · Mar 13, 2020

Messofanego said:
Remedy doesn't either, I believe.

Didn't one of the Naughty Dogs devs say they hoped the game would bomb either critically or commercially so then finally they might take notice to the labour abuse and people can't just use the game's success to justify the abuse?

Then we should get outlets to agree to give their honest opinions of the game in the review but give the game as low a score as possible with a disclaimer that it is due to crunch practices.

Ghost Slayer · Mar 13, 2020

Bonejack said:
I don't really care if you're boycotting the game or not, i also didn't comment on the impact or lack of from a boycott.

So your contribution to this thread is?

Ikuu · Mar 13, 2020

OP really riled up the Sony avatars lol.

RestEerie · Mar 13, 2020

Fliviuart said:
Joined you even before the game was announced. The first game was overhyped, and I didn't like it at all tbh.

So this thread is just congregation of people never buying it anyways i see..

Volkama · Mar 13, 2020

FlikBlueLightning said:
"Well, game sold like crap, gotta close the studio."

Or "Should have worked even harder".

Kyrios · Mar 13, 2020

Not really interested in the game right now (first was great but nothing amazing to me) but I'm getting deja vu with RDR2 where a ton of people said they'd boycott it and once that review thread hit it became a must play and a ton of praise. People will forget about this thread come May.

Same stuff will probably pop up with Cyberpunk later in the year and the whole process will repeat.

JohnnyMoses · Mar 13, 2020

Is the author of the article boycotting the game? I'd be curious to know.

Haze · Mar 13, 2020

Turkoop said:
Then stop buying almost 80% of AAA Games.

Way ahead of you

MickZan · Mar 13, 2020

Yeah no. It's an industry wide problem, better yet, multiple industry wide problem. Not buying their games solves nothing except maybe harder crunch due to layoffs for lack of income. The gaming industry should unionize and make sure they get fairly compensated for crunch. Stopping crunch would be really weird. I don't know anyone in my direct surroundings that doesn't crunch at a period each year, be it due to Christmas shopping or end of financial quarters. Difference is that we get financial compensation and more vacation days to compensate.

Eeyore · Mar 13, 2020

Passing Assassin said:
Changing what? This place? Nothing, it's not my responsibility. Crunch and toxic workplace in general? Im doing my best to raise awareness about it.

Well if you're just gonna put this place on blast without even trying to change it then what are you so self righteous for? It's not even logical. This place isn't perfect, no place is. But generalizing everyone as corporate bootlickers because they have differing opinions on how to combat this is uncharitable at best. I absolutely despise posts like yours because all you're doing is throwing around toxicity.

Boycotting isn't the only way to bring attention to this.

Bonejack · Mar 13, 2020

Ghost Slayer said:
So your contribution to this thread is?

Calling out the whataboutism and hot takes in this thread and sharing my opinion about it.

And with that i'm out of this thread because arguing in this case is both difficult due to the topic itself and pretty much pointless as the whataboutism and hot takes have shown.

Deleted member 18161 · Mar 13, 2020

plow said:
How about you all stop buying clothes that are made in China or Bangladesh. Stop buying mobile Phones that are produced by Foxconn. Don't buy any console since they're also mostly produced there.

The world is a shit place we live in, and i don't want to diminish Crunch. It's a shit practice that i hope will change.

This

entremet · Mar 13, 2020

Passing Assassin said:
This thread is essentially a good example of why this website's self-made reputation as a progressive and liberal, worker-supporter place is hilarious and couldnt be further from the truth.

Not quite.

Voting is still the best way to affect change. Many here support progressive labor laws. Many support unionization.

This type of condemning the consumer instead of holding our government accountable only results in-fighting instead of real advocacy and mobilization.

Do you remember the EA Spouse story? That lead to massive changes at EA for better work-life balance. Do you think a boycott of Madden by, at best, thousands of would-be buyers have the same results?

Right now, they type of rhetoric your espousing creates needless conflict and division instead of solidarity.

We keep attacking the consumer instead of the systems.

Fisty · Mar 13, 2020

Kyrios said:
Not really interested in the game right now (first was great but nothing amazing to me) but I'm getting deja vu with RDR2 where a ton of people said they'd boycott it and once that review thread hit it became a must play and a ton of praise. People will forget about this thread come May.

Same stuff will probably pop up with Cyberpunk later in the year and the whole process will repeat.

Yeah I have a feeling a lot of these "I'm with you OP, hated the first game anyway!" posters will be "...but that was different!" when Cyberpunk rolls around lol

Deleted member 44122 · Mar 13, 2020

XandBosch said:
Pretty pumped for Animal Crossing which comes out next Friday.

You know, that game that was delayed from last year because Nintendo refused to force their employees to crunch to get it done.

You're not wrong, but the only way it's going to change is if people choose to

A) Stop doing it
B) Stop supporting it

crunch still happens, it might even be longer when a game gets delayed

Martinski · Mar 13, 2020

People put in crunch type numbers in event industry as well working 12-16 hour days sometimes, gonna boycott concerts, festivals and so on as well?

Tunichtgut · Mar 13, 2020

Don't we have similar threads every few months?

I don't see crunch as something bad per se, as long as people developing games are not complaining about it, and that Kotaku article is not very insightful.
Many jobs have similar things, where in some period of time you kinda have to work more than you like to, but that's life.

Gero · Mar 13, 2020

Russell said:
So I'm not allowed to buy the game and support the devs who worked on the game?

You are a jackass according to some in this thread. Man, this forum sometimes. So many white knights and internet warriors

PSOreo · Mar 13, 2020

I get the sentiment but surely this would just lead to people losing their jobs due to bad sales.

Ghost Slayer · Mar 13, 2020

Bonejack said:
Calling out the whataboutism and hot takes in this thread and sharing my opinion about it.

And with that i'm out of this thread because arguing in this case is both difficult due to the topic itself and pretty much pointless as the whataboutism and hot takes have shown.

Yeah you really should if you dont know anything more to write.

#CrunchNoMore I will not buy Last of Us 2. Join me

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