you almost convinced me to blind buy this, but I downloaded the n.sane trilogy and noped out. The controls and hit detection frustration mean I want no part of this.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Crash 4 is the best in the series by far. Here's why you shouldn't overlook it.
- Thread starter Durden
- Start date
The game is great – but it suffers from massive amounts of bloat. You need to clear every stage most likely 4 times (with the perfect and platinum relics taking easily an hour or longer per level). At some point it just gets excessive.
The perfect relics and platinum relics should be just bragging rights, not demanded for 100% completion. Same thing with the N.Sane Levels - you can keep them, but don't make them mandatory to see the secret ending.
The perfect relics and platinum relics should be just bragging rights, not demanded for 100% completion. Same thing with the N.Sane Levels - you can keep them, but don't make them mandatory to see the secret ending.
For me it doesn't come close to the original trilogy or N.Sane trilogy.
1) Depth perception is really really off. Its telling that they had to use a yellow circle.
2) too many collectibles , which is not a major issue, but just demotivated me to bother grabbing boxes which where in risky positions because I knew I had missed some anyway.
3) masks were fun, but only at the last few stages do you end up using them together in interesting ways.
4) the other characters were absolutely awful to play with.
5) not the biggest fan of the new art style, but wasn't offensive either.
6) I didn't find the difficulty too bad if I am honest, and a non issue if you went for modern. I played the majority of the game on classic, but lost a lot of lives in the last world so decided to get over it and play modern.
7) some levels are too long with weird checkpoints at times. But at least they place some extra checkpoints in places if you keep dying.
1) Depth perception is really really off. Its telling that they had to use a yellow circle.
2) too many collectibles , which is not a major issue, but just demotivated me to bother grabbing boxes which where in risky positions because I knew I had missed some anyway.
3) masks were fun, but only at the last few stages do you end up using them together in interesting ways.
4) the other characters were absolutely awful to play with.
5) not the biggest fan of the new art style, but wasn't offensive either.
6) I didn't find the difficulty too bad if I am honest, and a non issue if you went for modern. I played the majority of the game on classic, but lost a lot of lives in the last world so decided to get over it and play modern.
7) some levels are too long with weird checkpoints at times. But at least they place some extra checkpoints in places if you keep dying.
Crash 4's feel in your hands is way smoother than N'Sane Trilogy !
The thing that gets me is just how NOT fun it is to go through the levels. It's all so bloated. Normally levels in a platformer like this are a nice, short one and done deal even when going for everything, but here each level felt like too much of an ordeal. And if they didn't overstay their welcome enough afterward the other character levels just ended up with you playing much of the same levels you already did. (Dingodile's version of Booty Call was especially egregious, you play him for like 10 seconds lol.) And then there's the N.Verted versions!
I tried just ignoring all the collectibles but I was just bored since the level design is really not that good and actually pretty rudimentary? I don't exactly remember all my issues with it but there wasn't much rhyming or focus to each level, and you'll often see much of the same ideas you see in the very first and second world. (A lot of the same types of enemies between platforms that you have to wait for, a lot of the pendulum types, a lot of the small platforms that break in 2D sections, all the mask gimmicks in general, etc.) I distinctly remember thinking "I feel like I did this before already" a lot playing through this game.
I typically champion Crash games even over Mario, but playing 3D World after this game was kind of an eye opener.
I tried just ignoring all the collectibles but I was just bored since the level design is really not that good and actually pretty rudimentary? I don't exactly remember all my issues with it but there wasn't much rhyming or focus to each level, and you'll often see much of the same ideas you see in the very first and second world. (A lot of the same types of enemies between platforms that you have to wait for, a lot of the pendulum types, a lot of the small platforms that break in 2D sections, all the mask gimmicks in general, etc.) I distinctly remember thinking "I feel like I did this before already" a lot playing through this game.
I typically champion Crash games even over Mario, but playing 3D World after this game was kind of an eye opener.
I stopped giving a shit about collecting stuff and wanted to get the level done in the later worlds collecting all the boxes then dying then having to jump on them all again got very tiring the level switchers stuff made some stuff incredibly frustrating
I love so much the series, and I agree with you OP: Crash Bandicoot 4 is the best one. So much content, difficulty (which gets harder for 106%), level design...
My only complain is that I wish they only required Gold relics for the 106% and the achievements/trophies. Platinum times are insane.
My only complain is that I wish they only required Gold relics for the 106% and the achievements/trophies. Platinum times are insane.
That's good to know. N sane basically makes you guess/learn through failing rather than just, okay, I land on the edge and I'm not going to fall.
I'm trying to lock down why I care so much about 100% in Crash compared to other games where I can ignore it. I think Crash constantly reminding you of what you missed is the thing and it seems worse than ever in this game.
OP
OP
Catching up on the thread and just a couple of rebukes from me
- The difficulty complaints ring hollow to me. Just like they did for Tropical Freeze. If you're talking about 100%ing the game and the difficulty that comes with that, then sure. But just the difficulty of the core game itself, I don't agree there's an issue there at all. Found the challenge to be immensely satisfying.
- The long levels have been pretty divisive. Personally, I love them. If the levels ran together more this may be a problem, but considering each level typically feels pretty unique, it made each level feel like a little adventure to me. I can understand the other side of the coin, but IMO it's actually a really nice successful altercation in direction. I will say if you decide to play in retro mode I see this point being more annoying, but I wouldn't really recommend anyone play in that mode anyway.
- As mentioned in the OP, I generally agree with the 100%ing woes. The more I've played the game, the more I've been able to find secrets on my own. But many of them are still pretty dumb. And it's just far, far too much. I also think there were opportunities to have more modern solutions in this regard too that could've made the experience much better even with the bloat. Such as saving bonus level progress separately. Having to redo the very tough bonus levels each time you wanna try to go for all the boxes in a level just sucks and feels archaic. Or a box finder that can help you locate some of those hidden boxes after you beat the game or something.
- Don't agree at all with the other characters being lame to play as, and this type of system is usually has a big target on it for me as they often end up really poor/annoying in games like this. I found each of the characters really fun, and their levels are spaced out enough that each time I got to one I was a little excited to play as them. Maybe if they had double the levels it would have been too much, but as it is now I love them and really appreciate what they add to the game. I do think that them making you finish the levels as Crash is pretty annoying and redundant though. They would have worked better if they just ended at the intermission point.
I might try it out. I remember playing the original Crash on a PS Underground demo disc and thought it was fine, but never played the full game. I recently tried the Insane Trilogy all these years later because of PS+ Collection, but didn't go beyond the first level as it just felt like old game design to me with new paint. If this game feels more modern then it might be worth it. Shame there isn't a demo to try.
I completely agree, OP.
I really can't jive with the level length complaints coming from some folks in the thread. Even when I cared about getting all the crates that was never an issue, it was all about the obtuse ways in which some of them were hidden.
Imo the level length feels perfect for a 2020 take on classic-style Crash; it feels so much deeper and multilayered than before.
I am a massive Crash fan and I have been waiting years for this game. When that first trailer dropped I was hit hard in the feels. So good.
I really enjoyed the story but I also really wanted to enjoy it as a completionist and I got nowhere near.
I thought the triple spin mechanic for the time trials was a horrible way to change it up from the dash and I dropped interest in doing them after the first two levels. I thought that initially the perfect run relics would be a fun challenge but I soon realised I wasn't up to putting the work in for them either.
Overall, mixed feelings. I enjoyed most of my story play through including playing as other characters and the classic feel of the flash back levels I unlocked. The problem was that beyond doing the story it was too difficult for me rationalise spending hours and hours getting much much better and even then still likely not being good enough to complete.
I really enjoyed the story but I also really wanted to enjoy it as a completionist and I got nowhere near.
I thought the triple spin mechanic for the time trials was a horrible way to change it up from the dash and I dropped interest in doing them after the first two levels. I thought that initially the perfect run relics would be a fun challenge but I soon realised I wasn't up to putting the work in for them either.
Overall, mixed feelings. I enjoyed most of my story play through including playing as other characters and the classic feel of the flash back levels I unlocked. The problem was that beyond doing the story it was too difficult for me rationalise spending hours and hours getting much much better and even then still likely not being good enough to complete.
I'd argue it's because it's the main thing that gives the level design in the original trilogy its spark, just rolling through the stages from start to finish is fairly standard fare for the genre, its the way you have to collect everything as you go with all the wrinkles that can entail that makes the level design go from so-so to pretty good*.
*Outside the moments where you have to awkwardly backtrack towards the screen due to split paths or just cold hard crash in general
I didn't have an issue with the depth perception. That yellow circle was a QoL enhancement, it wasn't designed for the reason you're thinking of. I understand the collectable point. I agree, it has far too many. However, it's pretty easy to ignore. I would only go for them if you truly enjoyed the game once beating it and looking for a reason to go back. I don't understand the third point you made, as a platforming game, it shakes things up and they didn't slow down the pace of the gameplay or anything. For reason four, I can understand. I would have preferred to play as Crash all the way through, so thankfully Tawna, Dingodile, and Cortex are a minimum...but they really aren't awful to play as. For the fifth point, I can see some hesitation, but looking back at the N.Sane Trilogy, it's miles better.
I'm not making these points to debate you, just trying to understand. :) As far as I know, the FOV has been modified in the next gen patches to make crates more visible if that helps. Hit detection has also been altered.
100%ing is a lot less tedious in Tropical Freeze at least, that game was challenging to 100%. This just goes hard into being tedious. Which makes the game fall apart because I'd argue that 100%ing a platformer is a big part of it.
This is definitely not a you thing. I also had a huge issue with the *feel* of Polar in Crash 4 vs 2. Do NOT jive with that run cycle (in 4) at all.
The jump animation also doesn't have enough punch on the landing in comparison to the original game.
I dunno, ultimately it's nitpicky maybe, but I'm right there with you on that criticism.
Threads like this one always make me smile. The passion is on full display. This is the kind of thing you'd hope to find on a dedicated gaming news site.
I can't at all jive with the idea that a platformer's quality hinges on how well the devs handled optional secondary completion stuff.
The fundamental main game aspects like control, level design, and boss battles are infinitely more important, and imo that's where Crash 4 shines and is what puts it above the original trilogy (or at the very least above Warped and Crash 1).
Like, when I think about the reasons why I dislike the other post-ND games like Wrath, Twinsanity, and the two Radical-era titles it all comes down to the core gameplay being really lackluster and/or just straight garbage. Completion doesn't even factor in.
The implication for me is that if you disregard the quality of optional content then it's an anything goes situation where criticism can simply be deflected with a "well you don't have to do it so it really doesn't matter how good it is" defense for any game. The secondary completion stuff doesn't sit in a vacuum from the rest of the game and I don't think the optional nature of said content is a clear cut situation where you can separate "good part" and "bad part" cleanly. Crash 4 is a very dense game with layers of content and said content still directly impacts the game's design no matter if you're going for 106% or not.
Fair enough. Maybe I sounded too negative haha, did not mean to. Was just saying I preferred the trilogy.
I do really think depth was off, I've never had issue with this before in a crash game or a good platformer for that matter. Just wondering, did you try to complete the game without the yellow circle? And if so, would you not agree there were definitely some weird spots?
As for my third point, yes you're right. That's me just being annoying haha! I really liked the last world where they mixed up the various powers, that's the highlight of the game for me but I just felt it came a bit too late in the game. But definitely a nitpick of mine.
I'm not opposed to playing different characters. I really loved twinsanity (mind you, it may be crap in retrospect but I was a kid back then)
Having said all that. They did do a crackin job! making crash 4 similar to the trilogy would have been too safe and boring, so they mixed things up nicely.
I don't think that's the case at all, but maybe I'm missing what you're trying to get at.
Could you possibly expand upon this point?
Crash 4 never asks the player to collect, like, 36 gems and 5 N. Sanely Perfect before they can play Give it a Spin or fight N. Brio, what direct affect does the completion stuff have on the 9-10 hour main story campaign that the vast majority of people have played and will play?
I feel like if it truly had a direct impact on the core experience the game wouldn't be sitting on Meta with an 85 critic score and 8.2 user score.
Btw I don't say any of this to dismiss anybody's criticism of the completion run, I agree that it is quite flawed. I just can't relate to the quality of the game hinging on that particular aspect.
It's all good. Thanks for the response. :) I hope to see Crash 5 have even tighter platforming than 4.
i agree with all comment abut " completions " … after the first island i tried to collect all boxes and i couldn't, there are a lots of them out off screen !
hope they fix this in future update .
hope they fix this in future update .
Last edited:
I'm curious, for you was it just Polar, or did it extend to the rest of the game? I feel like it was there throughout for me, but maybe I'm just being too negative. My theory is that because the general sound design is so rich, with music and ambience, there's less room for the effects themselves to have punch. It also seems like the crate breaking effect is quieter the further the crate is from the camera, which can make it feel hollow.
Is the input lag on the Switch version as bad as n sane trilogy. I impulse bought that and holy shit the input lag was bad.
This is my biggest knock against the game. The first world and stages are relatively modest in length for a platformer not too dissimilar from the prior games.
This soon changes fast as damn near the rest of the game extends the levels to double the checkpoints with upwards 300-400 crates and it can wear you down. Much of the time I feel like I am about to reach the end of a level only to realize I'm barely halfway done!
It's a game I find I need to carve out time to try a new level because of the bloat instead of something I can quickly progress with. Cut the stages in half and put them in the map separately. So many of them feel like gauntlet runs and when I just have brief moments to play, it kind of sucks how long they stretch. Too many times have I gotten frustrated at some checkpoints but force myself on because I'm not replaying the first 20 minutes of the same stage all over collecting all that shit...
But I agree with many other complaints in this thread, but this one just kills me. I miss bite-size Crash obstacle courses.
its great but way too hard, that brought it down a little below Warped for me. I had more fun playing the PSone Crash games, this one just started to be an exercise in frustration later in the game. Don't get me wrong, I love it. Loved it enough to finish it but I wont be replaying cause I just don't wanna put myself through that again.
Not even remotely.
This is up there with Crash 2 as the best in the series.
Yeah, don't listen to this either.
There are some issues with the remake trilogy but Crash 2 and Crash 3 are better in the remakes than the originals. There are almost zero reasons to buy the original PS1 games over the remakes.
There are a couple issues with the remake of the original Crash but they're largely minor.
After completing every game in the N.Sane trilogy at max percentage, I thought nothing could ever make me falter.
I was young and naive.
While the just playing the levels is hard on its own, going for the 106% is just on another level of pain. It's like a torture device for the criminally insane and I love every painful second of it.
Hurt me more Daddy Crash.
Side-note : I was a bit surprised by the OST at first, it felt like a downgrade to me. But it really grew on me. Each character has their own little leitmotif that play on their version of the stage and it works super well. The fact that they kept Cortex's from the trilogy is the best thing ever. Everytime I hear those notes it gets me hyped.
I was young and naive.
While the just playing the levels is hard on its own, going for the 106% is just on another level of pain. It's like a torture device for the criminally insane and I love every painful second of it.
Hurt me more Daddy Crash.
Side-note : I was a bit surprised by the OST at first, it felt like a downgrade to me. But it really grew on me. Each character has their own little leitmotif that play on their version of the stage and it works super well. The fact that they kept Cortex's from the trilogy is the best thing ever. Everytime I hear those notes it gets me hyped.
I didn't take to Crash 4. I kinda got lured in by nostalgia but it just kinda confirmed to me that crash as always been a second rate platformer. It's too trial and error for liking and feels a bit cheap. I think even the designers know this, it's the only platformer where there is a circle below you to help you judge where you are on screen in correlation to your environment. I know other games use shadows etc but i really struggled with depth perception in this. The later levels feel like they are actively trying to punish you, I didn't find the difficulty fun at all and I lost patience with it.
Having said that, if you do take to the game there is a lot of content to dive into. It's a really generous game when it comes to content.
Having said that, if you do take to the game there is a lot of content to dive into. It's a really generous game when it comes to content.