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What is of the highest importance is what happens in the wake of this:
1) China needs to permanently shut down wet markets and exotic animal trading, make China's food supply safe and if possible use their influence in Asia to get smaller countries to follow suit.
2) For the US, the biggest blunder was that Bolton, under Trump, dismantled the pandemic team - we need to enact a law so that no president has the power to do something that dumb ever again.
1) China needs to permanently shut down wet markets and exotic animal trading, make China's food supply safe and if possible use their influence in Asia to get smaller countries to follow suit.
2) For the US, the biggest blunder was that Bolton, under Trump, dismantled the pandemic team - we need to enact a law so that no president has the power to do something that dumb ever again.
User Banned (Permanent): Conspiracy theory in sensitive thread. Prior serious infraction. Account still in junior phase.
How are intelligent people blaming Trump? The Trump administration didn't cause this virus outbreak. This is solely the fault of China for the creation and spread and possibly the WHO for being incompetent and slow to react.
For the way he handled the crisis, not for the outbreak. Not sure how that's not immediately obvious but OK
No one is blaming him for the outbreak. He's getting blame for not taking this pandemic seriously and he's still considering lifting the emergency lock down early.
Shit happens, and sometimes all you can do is prevent it, and as the president of one of the most powerful nations on the planet, he's letting people die due to his negligence.
NYC is the epicenter of the pandemic in America, and Trump is denying the request for additional funds and ventilators because "it's not that bad". He is literally letting people die.
The desire to blame people is misguided. China made some missteps but no matter what anyone did we were going to end up here. Take a look at H1N1 everything was done right and it still spread like wildfire.
Nope.
Arbitrary selective timeline to massage most of the folks moral conscious here is hilarious when people persistently exhibit the same modern colonial temperament towards Asia, Africa and Middle East.
It doesn't have to be China, so long as it originated outside of the West, it would still be the Western nations lauded with "the best healthcare" and "ranked as the most prepared countries in a pedanmic" would never fail to handle the outbreak like those backwards societies ( whom we colonized before ).
You are unable to feel or relate to people outside of the Western Hubris unless their countries subservient to the Western hegemony and be considered as "allies".
Arbitrary selective timeline to massage most of the folks moral conscious here is hilarious when people persistently exhibit the same modern colonial temperament towards Asia, Africa and Middle East.
It doesn't have to be China, so long as it originated outside of the West, it would still be the Western nations lauded with "the best healthcare" and "ranked as the most prepared countries in a pedanmic" would never fail to handle the outbreak like those backwards societies ( whom we colonized before ).
You are unable to feel or relate to people outside of the Western Hubris unless their countries subservient to the Western hegemony and be considered as "allies".
I'm confident that fall guys are already being designated. The truly guilty folks will walk away scot free, and likely richer and more powerful than they were before.
Thank you! I don't understand what's so hard to grasp about this. The dumb fuck along with his propaganda network were calling it a hoax in the early stages instead of preparing for it.
Cuomo and DeBlasio are both guilty of negligent homicide.
De Blasio: NYC Might ‘Shelter in Place.’ Cuomo: No, It Won’t.
In either a jurisdictional issue or another skirmish between the two, Cuomo overruled de Blasio on a potential order restricting New Yorkers’ travel.nymag.com
Trump, mass murder.
I'll agree to this as well. trump is a mass murderer full stop.
That's a generous way to frame Trump actively obstructing relief efforts
I think there's sufficient evidence to prove that Trump is still not doing his job, never mind being late.
There are specific incidents that could have been prevented, for example the Westerdam cruise ship that was allowed to dock in Cambodia and let passengers off to immediately fly home, several which later tested positive.
rather I'm just being realistic rather than to what people would want, You want to do something about Trump... Vote in November and vote him out
I'm PR, so not can't vote. that doesn't help people who will die before November either.
I hope so, there's tons of blame all around.
China's initial cover up.
HHS sending personnel to pick up sick Americans without protective gear, and I doubt that was Trump's doing or even his lacky in charge of HHS, some lower or mid-level person who should have known better made that call.
CDC only having one test being worked on, in the future I think it'd be best to have multiple tests being developed simultaneously in the event one isn't effective.
Obviously parts of Congress knew it'd be bad and could have been drafting legislation in advance but they were all to happy to leave their role to the Executive Branch. Obviously insider trading needs to be looked into as well.
Some Governors are massively fucking up.
And we have Trump's shit.
So the whole government gets a lot of blame from me
China's initial cover up.
HHS sending personnel to pick up sick Americans without protective gear, and I doubt that was Trump's doing or even his lacky in charge of HHS, some lower or mid-level person who should have known better made that call.
CDC only having one test being worked on, in the future I think it'd be best to have multiple tests being developed simultaneously in the event one isn't effective.
Obviously parts of Congress knew it'd be bad and could have been drafting legislation in advance but they were all to happy to leave their role to the Executive Branch. Obviously insider trading needs to be looked into as well.
Some Governors are massively fucking up.
And we have Trump's shit.
So the whole government gets a lot of blame from me
Frankly, if this whole shitshow taught me anything, its to never put trust onto anyone. They will never share similar values as I do and may think I'm a loony or too radical for my beliefs
Treat everyone I meet as a potential enemy from here on out
Treat everyone I meet as a potential enemy from here on out
Americans are going to get devastated and later furious after this is over. The casualties are only now ramping up and the numbers are gonna g to be horrid over the next 1-2 months. The question isn't whether or not they'll hold people accountable- the question is who they'll aim their anger at. Donald shifting the name of the virus to the Chinese Virus is not just racism, but a part of a larger effort to deflect blame from his own failures. He's going to want the people to blame anyone else other than him for his gross failures after the collective tragedy that's just beginning to take place.
absolutely not. because rich ppl still want their exotic animals and stupid shit. clean up and hide their mess and before you know it, it's back to business as usual.
it scares me that we won't learn any lessons at all from this.
look at trump and his approval rating actually rising in spite of his awful response to this crisis. what hope does that instill in you?
people are fucking stupid and the least amongst us inevitably always pay the real costs, with their lives.
it scares me that we won't learn any lessons at all from this.
look at trump and his approval rating actually rising in spite of his awful response to this crisis. what hope does that instill in you?
people are fucking stupid and the least amongst us inevitably always pay the real costs, with their lives.
I'm willing to bet you a lot of money that more politicians in China are going to face serious personal consequences than in the west.
People will go to jail for a long ass time, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them will get the death penalty.
Meanwhile, in the land of the free, politicians will blame China and and I suspect enough people will be cheering for that that they will be able to get away with their gross, criminal incompetence.
It's not rich people that eat bush meat in China.
This shit occupy pretty much the same space as roadkill restaurants do in the US.
Remember how checks and balances were gonna keep Trump on his toes? Yeah, those were good times.
So I don't expect anything will change and actually be prepared for another term with Trump as his reward lol
So I don't expect anything will change and actually be prepared for another term with Trump as his reward lol
If China had regulations and actually banned these Meat Markets, This whole thing might not have happened
they play a part
there's been lots of reporting on this.
More Chinese push to end wildlife markets as WHO declares coronavirus emergency
Media coverage of China's wildlife markets sends the message that they’re hugely popular. In reality, many Chinese can’t relate.
www.nationalgeographic.com
Rich Chinese are literally eating this exotic mammal into extinction
GlobalPost visits a border outpost where the world’s most trafficked mammal is on the menu.
www.pri.org
But with China's boom, demand for pangolins has skyrocketed. For many middle-class Chinese, consuming black-market pangolins is now considered a sign of wealth and status, says Challender, who is writing his PhD on the global pangolin trade.
While conducting research in Vietnam in 2012, Challender witnessed a diner pay $700 for a two-kilogram pangolin. "The creation of urban luxury markets for wild meat, especially where wild meat has been consumed historically, has been a key driver in the trade of pangolins," he says.
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my point remains that unless china and other places eradicate these practices, the risk will still be there. lessons need to be learned.
We live in a post-truth era. People like Trump should be example enough to know that even if you explictly are the cause of a problem, it's so incredibly easy to gaslight others nowadays. No white man in power will ever have to fear consequences no matter just how much damage they are doing to mankind.
your friends are right. This is the best he can do. Thats the problem.
They have regulations, they are just a poor country and their enforcement is pretty lacking, especially in places in certain places (Hubei is notoriously bad at this).
I also suspect that they will put enormous focus on that moving forward, and if they don't, I am pretty sure people will burn those stores down.
People are not terribly happy about that, and most Chinese don't touch that shit.
And maybe more importantly, to bring it back to the question of this thread, people in the outside China talking sternly about food safety in China is not going to improve food safety in China, it's just going to help our shitty politicians shift blame from their incompetence, which I suspect most of them will try to do.
This is the exotic meat stall in the Wuhan market (it's not 100% clear that this store is what caused it btw, but whatever).
This is not a place that rich people eat.
Rich people eat at fancy restaurants, fancy restaurants are generally not the place that cause serious health concerns.
But for real, why not worry about your own government?
Food safety in China is not going to get improved by those half baked poorly informed takes, it's just a way for shitty politicians to shit blame.
why are you actively fighting me on this? rich people, middle-class people who gives a fuck? are you chinese? what is wrong with you? this affects the whole planet because of their deplorable practicesThey have regulations, they are just a poor country and their enforcement is pretty lacking, especially in places in certain places (Hubei is notoriously bad at this).
I also suspect that they will put enormous focus on that moving forward, and if they don't, I am pretty sure people will burn those stores down.
People are not terribly happy about that, and most Chinese don't touch that shit.
And maybe more importantly, to bring it back to the question of this thread, people in the outside China talking sternly about food safety in China is not going to improve food safety in China, it's just going to help our shitty politicians shift blame from their incompetence, which I suspect most of them will try to do.
This is the exotic meat stall in the Wuhan market (it's not 100% clear that this store is what caused it btw, but whatever).
This is not a place that rich people eat.
Rich people eat at fancy restaurants, fancy restaurants are generally not the place that cause serious health concerns.
But for real, why not worry about your own government?
Food safety in China is not going to get improved by those half baked poorly informed takes, it's just a way for shitty politicians to shit blame.
don't bother responding, because you're just posting nonsense.
I am not Chinese. I used to live in China for a while and I have friends there though.
I think insisting on blaming this on China is not going to improve things in China, it's literally the way Trump (and I suspect a whole lot of other failed politicians) are going to try and avoid being help accountable.
What are you trying to achieve with that?
Because if it's an earnest attempt to improve health safety in China then yes, I think you need to give a little bit more fucks about actually understanding those issues.
Pretty sure fox news is responsible for at least some of the deaths, because of their missinformation.
I think this is probably the most that will happen after all this, and even then, the crackdowns might not even be successful.
Apparently you're the expert.
Every country has since employed a travel ban, defying the WHO, because they've realized how idiotic they are.
The principles employed in social distancing and quarantine is the same one in travel restrictions. You don't have to be an expert to know that.
No
Nothing will change
Trump still wins the election
Unless he and the Republican Party all get it and some pass away then nothing will change
We'll probably be taxed for all the ventilators being made
My bro thinks if you travel outside your state / country you'll need to have a chip/be put on record of where you've been, I can kinda see that happening
Nothing will change
Trump still wins the election
Unless he and the Republican Party all get it and some pass away then nothing will change
We'll probably be taxed for all the ventilators being made
My bro thinks if you travel outside your state / country you'll need to have a chip/be put on record of where you've been, I can kinda see that happening
Maybe you should check the definition of quarantine before making statements of principles. And yes they are different. Again in your timeline, you would recommend a travel ban in January?
If anti-vaxxers can be blamed for certain ailments restarting in the US, wet markets should certainly be blamed for this virus (and others) starting in China...
With that being said, there's responsibility for ensuring these viruses don't start, and there's responsibility for containment and making sure the virus doesn't spread. This mess can be traced back to failure at both, and China, US, EU, etc. are all to be blamed for the latter.
I did, its the same.
Since youre so interested in my non expert opinion. At the very minimum, countries should have made travel restrictions when China themselves made travel restrictions. Which was late January or earlier. At the very least do a forced quarantine for travelers.
I'd imagine in Portugal there might be some flak for the health minister since she is rather incompetent as well as overestimating our capabilities. Alongside this she is always quick to point fingers to others for not doing what she wants despite her not being able to give them the resources to do their jobs. She essentially gives a guilt card to the media since they only need to replay her statements 1-2 years ago that contradict her actual approach. For example she mentionted that we had to many doctors and there was very little need to find ways to increase the specialization. Now they don't even have enough general doctors to staff some hospitals...
it will also probably be some negative look at the EU due to both how FMI forced to sabotage our investment in our NHS during the last years as well as Holland, austria, finland and to some extent germany that are "stopping us" from allowing a better support to all the families and companies that are losing income to uphold the quarantine by opposing EU bonds. If at least they offered an equal good solutions instead of just we prefer money over people's lives it would create less animosity.
it will also probably be some negative look at the EU due to both how FMI forced to sabotage our investment in our NHS during the last years as well as Holland, austria, finland and to some extent germany that are "stopping us" from allowing a better support to all the families and companies that are losing income to uphold the quarantine by opposing EU bonds. If at least they offered an equal good solutions instead of just we prefer money over people's lives it would create less animosity.
This Tweet certainly didn't age well:
China obviously fucked up there, whether it was lies or incompetence doesn't matter much. I'm sure heads will roll over there, I'm also sure Xi Jinping's head will remain firmly attached to his body. The rest of the world should demand more transparency in China, this cannot be allowed to happen again.
I had hoped the WHO would have been more proactive, but alas. Still, we need to remember the WHO are only as powerful as individual countries make them. This is ultimately a collective failing from the richer countries in the world.
Some countries responded well despite the misleading initial reports, like South Korea and Taiwan. They were well prepared and responded swiftly. They were also minimally exposed, which helped.
Some countries were woefully prepared and responded a bit lax, but have since done their best. I'd say this goes for most of Europe, including the Netherlands where I'm at. I would hope well funded healthcare will become more of a priority after all is said and done.
Then there are some countries lead by total buffoons who think they can talk their way out of a pandemic. They know who they are. Things are going to be ugly and people will be furious but none of those leaders will be suffer real consequences, other than risk losing their lives from the virus. They will just retreat into their fancy mansions.
China obviously fucked up there, whether it was lies or incompetence doesn't matter much. I'm sure heads will roll over there, I'm also sure Xi Jinping's head will remain firmly attached to his body. The rest of the world should demand more transparency in China, this cannot be allowed to happen again.
I had hoped the WHO would have been more proactive, but alas. Still, we need to remember the WHO are only as powerful as individual countries make them. This is ultimately a collective failing from the richer countries in the world.
Some countries responded well despite the misleading initial reports, like South Korea and Taiwan. They were well prepared and responded swiftly. They were also minimally exposed, which helped.
Some countries were woefully prepared and responded a bit lax, but have since done their best. I'd say this goes for most of Europe, including the Netherlands where I'm at. I would hope well funded healthcare will become more of a priority after all is said and done.
Then there are some countries lead by total buffoons who think they can talk their way out of a pandemic. They know who they are. Things are going to be ugly and people will be furious but none of those leaders will be suffer real consequences, other than risk losing their lives from the virus. They will just retreat into their fancy mansions.
I don't think rhino horns has anything to do with this virus.
Trump is absolute shit, but the most of the blame should go to China. Maintaining an environment of paranoia among their doctors and medical staff, keeping the fucked up wet markets open despite pretty much every expert telling them to close that shit after SARS, hiding and obfuscating the true scope of the crisis, etc. They were able to mobilize and get shit under control, but they started this shit and in and should be held accountable for their negligence. It will never happen though
The thing is, by January it was already too late. There's only a short window for travel bans to work to prevent country transmission of infectious diseases. And you better have perfect contact tracing. Once it's out of the bag, its out. And this is all hypothetical because travel bans have never worked before. At best modeling shows that it doesn't flatten the curve it just delays it by a few days or weeks. And the cost is not insignificant. I can link you to the research but a quick google search will give you summaries that all say the same thing. What does work to flatten the curver are policies to lower community level transmission, such as social distancing, sheltering in place, etc.
