Couple must return $120,000 after bank error prompted spending spree

[NinjaScooter]

As stupid as everyone in this thread defending their actions.

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The number of (seemingly) grown ass adults who don't understand fairly basic legal principles is sort of astonishing. Reminds me of that thread about the douchebag Tesla driver who left his car on some guys lawn and people were like "if that were me I'd set the car on fire", like, you realize you can't do that, right?

 

[Seductivpancakes]

If you leave your car in my driveway you cant be surprised if it isnt there when you come back to pick it up. Same logic with the money 🤷🏽‍♂️

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That's still theft lmao.

You call the guy to get their car or get it towed.

 

[Josh5890]

I know they shouldnt have spent the money but how are they being charged with theft if it was ultimately the bank's fault for depositing the money in their account.

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If you leave a restaurant and the valet gives you someone's brand new sports car instead of your four door sedan, do you really think you are under no obligation to advise them of the mistake and that you are within your legal right to keep the vehicle and drive off?

 

[Eumi]

If you leave your car in my driveway you cant be surprised if it isnt there when you come back to pick it up. Same logic with the money 🤷🏽‍♂️

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I would accuse this of being a troll post, but I've legitimately heard dumber excuses for theft at my job given as actual attempts at legal defence, so believe me everyone, there are actually people this dumb out there.

 

[Deleted member 18400]

The number of people in this thread who think it's ok to spend money that isn't yours, regardless of how you got it, is truly staggering.

Like you cannot look me in the eyes and tell me that if you found 120k in your bank account you wouldn't instantly, on a basic level, know that you can't spend that money and be doing the right or legal thing. I refuse to believe it.

 

[BigBlue]

I would accuse this of being a troll post, but I've legitimately heard dumber excuses for theft at my job given as actual attempts at legal defence, so believe me everyone, there are actually people this dumb out there.

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Sorry for not being a capitalism apologist lol

 

[Cokie Bear]

Sorry for not being a capitalism apologist lol

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You are trolling then because no one here is excusing the bank for making a mistake.

 

[Deleted member 18400]

If you leave a restaurant and the valet gives you someone's brand new sports car instead of your four door sedan, do you really think you are under no obligation to advise them of the mistake and that you are within your legal right to keep the vehicle and drive off?

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This is the best example I have seen yet.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Sorry for not being a capitalism apologist lol

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In what form of government is it okay to take shit that don't belong to you?

 

[Elderly Parrot]

If you leave your car in my driveway you cant be surprised if it isnt there when you come back to pick it up. Same logic with the money 🤷🏽‍♂️

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You can't bring real property law into this case that's a whole other thing.

 

[BigBlue]

You are trolling then because no one here is excusing the bank for making a mistake.

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Not trolling. However if you believe that then you arent reading any of the comments here.

 

[Cokie Bear]

Not trolling. However if you believe that then you arent reading any of the comments here.

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Point them out.

 

[BigBlue]

In what form of government is it okay to take shit that don't belong to you?

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Whichever one where we dont automatically give big rich banks the benefit of the doubt.

 

[BigBlue]

Point them out.

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You can read.

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Whichever one where we dont automatically give big rich banks the benefit of the doubt.

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Ah trolling it is

 

[adj_noun]

The number of people in this thread who think it's ok to spend money that isn't yours, regardless of how you got it, is truly staggering.

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I blame Monopoly for steering 'em wrong.

 

[Darknight]

Whichever one where we dont automatically give big rich banks the benefit of the doubt.

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So you can't point out a specific post then.

None of them do. Faulting the people has nothing to do with excusing the bank.

 

[Cokie Bear]

You can read.

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I will do when you present them to me.

But you won't because no one is doing that. No one has absolved the bank of their mistake.

You asked why are they being charged with theft, and people explained why to you. You have yet to explain why you think they shouldn't be charged with theft after knowingly spending almost $120,000 that they knew wasn't theirs, then trying to avoid having to pay it back.

The valet example has been presented to you twice now but you ignored it.

 

[BigBlue]

Ah trolling it is

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Lol.

 

[Merv]

I blame Monopoly for steering 'em wrong.

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Monopoly is right, but you just can't keep anything over $200. That's where they fucked up.


/s

 

[Cotton McKnight]

If this ever happened to me, I would just put it in a high interest rate account, and try to drag my feet as much as possible in giving it back. Not spend it.

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Unethical me would do: ask them to sue me, get a good lawyer, hopefully it drags out for years. You make enough money to have FU money, pay the money back plus damages and court costs. (I know this would likely fail)

Back to reality, I'd call the bank and ask them to sort it out without ever touching the money.

 

[sangreal]

Legal question here.

I see a lot of people using words like "their account" and "banks money". The implication that money deposited in the couples account is not "their" money implies every dollar in the banking system has a specific owner irrespective of which account it's actually in. Alternatively, it implies that all money in a bank account is still the "bank's money" and by opening an account you simply acquire a permit to spend some of the bank's money. Legally speaking, which is the case, or is the "ownership" of money under another model I didn't consider?

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An account is a representation of the bank's debt to you and not necessarily any physical cash that either you or the bank own. When you make a deposit you are giving the bank cash in exchange for an IOU. They then spend that cash on loans, investments, etc. When you make a withdrawal, they are repaying you. The bank is giving you cash and in exchange get to reduce how much they owe you. The bank did not owe this couple $120k as they never lent the bank $120k so they took money they weren't entitled to. It's the same as if you took out a loan from a bank, with the roles reversed. If you borrow 50k it would be a problem if the bank decided they feel like taking $200k in repayment (not counting agreed interest etc)

 

[NinjaScooter]

Unethical me would do: ask them to sue me, get a good lawyer, hopefully it drags out for years. You make enough money to have FU money, pay the money back plus damages and court costs. (I know this would likely fail)

Back to reality, I'd call the bank and ask them to sort it out without ever touching the money.

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On top of whatever interest you accrue likely not being enough to cover the lawyer and court costs, the bank would probably be able to collect on the interest as well.

 

[samoyed]

An account is a representation of the bank's debt to you and not necessarily any physical cash that either you or the bank own. When you make a deposit you are giving the bank cash in exchange for an IOU. They then spend that cash on loans, investments, etc. When you make a withdrawal, they are repaying you. It's the same as if you took out a loan from a bank, with the roles reversed.

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Ah okay I get it now.

 

[Catdaddy]

Banks are all about checks and balances, that $120,000 was probably for someone elses account. If the reversed happened and the bank took money out of your account, would you shrug it off, or try and get your money back?

Also, if all the sudden $120,000 appeared in my account and I have no idea why its there, I'm sure not going to spend it until I find out what I did to EARN the money.

 

[Sqrt]

Banks are all about checks and balances, that $120,000 was probably for someone elses account. If the reversed happened and the bank took money out of your account, would you shrug it off, or try and get your money back?

Also, if all the sudden $120,000 appeared in my account and I have no idea why its there, I'm sure not going to spend it until I find out what I did to EARN the money.

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And missing the opportunity of buying a race car?

 

[Darknight]

I'm not sure what's worse. The fact that people think it's okay to spend the money or the fact that people think that making such a choice means it shouldn't impact them even though they consciously made that choice. It's like people want to be absolved of personal responsibility.

 

[RedMercury]

There's competing issues here, I think most of us are aware that the law says they aren't entitled to the money, however at the same time of course people are loathe to take the side of a financial institution considering their history in the country, especially in the not-distant past.

 

[Cokie Bear]

There's competing issues here, I think most of us are aware that the law says they aren't entitled to the money, however at the same time of course people are loathe to take the side of a financial institution considering their history in the country, especially in the not-distant past.

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Literally no one is "taking the banks side" though. What side would that even be?

 

[Darknight]

There's competing issues here, I think most of us are aware that the law says they aren't entitled to the money, however at the same time of course people are loathe to take the side of a financial institution considering their history in the country, especially in the not-distant past.

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Are most aware? Because there are a lot of people in here advocating to spend the money or that they should be allowed to keep it. Plus who is taking the side of the bank and what exactly would taking the side of the bank look like?

 

[voOsh]

You cannot spend money that is not yours. While I can somewhat understand the feelings of contempt towards banks, once you've started participating in capitalism you need to follow the rules or face consequences.

 

[Dekuman]

People forget what banks do day to day. People deposit funds and withdraw funds and they provide liquidity to individuals and business.

So the 120k came from somewhere in the ledger. It is someone's.money they deposit or is transferring. Or it could be a lump of multiple individual's money. This isn't some sort of complex security that was conjured up in thin air taken from Patrick Bateman's account

The bailout is irrelevant as it was a securities issue with sub prime mortgages. The deposit and savings side of most banks are pretty straightforward and boring

 

[RedMercury]

Literally no one is "taking the banks side" though. What side would that even be?

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If you are advocating the bank pursue legal action against the couple to recoup their money, I do not see how that is not taking the side of the bank considering it is supporting their action. I'm not making a value judgment with that, but it is advocating their action.

 

[Cokie Bear]

If you are advocating the bank pursue legal action against the couple to recoup their money, I do not see how that is not taking the side of the bank considering it is supporting their action. I'm not making a value judgment with that, but it is advocating their action.

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The banks aren't the ones prosecuting them. Even if they were, who has advocated for that?

But since were in the subject, they stole a large sum of money and are refusing to pay it back. Why shouldn't legal action be taken?

 

[RedMercury]

The banks aren't the ones prosecuting them. Even if they were, who has advocated for that?

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That's my mistake then, I thought the bank pressed charges.

 

[Darknight]

If you are advocating the bank pursue legal action against the couple to recoup their money, I do not see how that is not taking the side of the bank considering it is supporting their action. I'm not making a value judgment with that, but it is advocating their action.

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So we're advocating for people steeling $120,000?

 

[Armaros]

If you are advocating the bank pursue legal action against the couple to recoup their money, I do not see how that is not taking the side of the bank considering it is supporting their action. I'm not making a value judgment with that, but it is advocating their action.

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If you had properly read the various articles, you would see the bank reach out to the couple to form some sort of payment plan, and the couple went dark and stopped communicating, thus the authorities got involved and the federal prosecutor pressed charges.

 

[Alastor3]

When I was 12 my bank accidentally dropped £1,000 into my account - went out and bought an N64 Goldeneye bundle, a hi-fi and a 24 inch TV! My old man had to pay them back once they noticed, and I was grounded for like a month, but didn't much care as I had Goldeneye lol.

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Living the dream!

 

[RedMercury]

If you had properly read the various articles, you would see the bank reach out to the couple to form some sort of payment plan, and the couple went dark and stopped communicating, thus the authorities got involved and the federal prosecutor pressed charges.

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Correct, I did read that, thank you.

 

[Duane]

The other day I came out of a restaurant and the valet handed me keys to a 100k Maserati, said "here you go, sir", instead of my rusty 12 year old Jeep I had him park when I got there. I drove the Maserati home and sold it the next day. Posting this from jail and I just can't believe it!

Edit: damn, beaten.

 

[Deleted member 43]

That's my mistake then, I thought the bank pressed charges.

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All crimes are committed against the state, therefore the state prosecutes all crimes. "Pressing charges" simply means you are bringing a criminal act to the attention of the state, and are willing to cooperate with their investigation.

 

[RedMercury]

All crimes are committed against the state, therefore the state prosecutes all crimes. "Pressing charges" simply means you are bringing a criminal act to the attention of the state, and are willing to cooperate with their investigation.

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Thanks Matt, I should not have conflated my love of Lucy Lawless with knowledge of law.

 

[Lucky Forward]

Over a two-and-a-half-week period in June, Williams and his wife, Tiffany, who carried a balance of $1,121 before the error, withdrew more than $100,000 of the surprise deposit, using it to make a down payment on a Chevrolet SUV.

The couple also bought a camper, a car trailer, a race car and two four-wheelers, as well as using it to pay bills and to support needy friends to the tune of $15,000.

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It's funny how they thought they lucked into $120,000 and they used the opportunity to go into more debt.

 

[Shatty McKracken]

I had a $4000 credit put on a Visa card once. I had a 0 balance on it so it was like someone just gave me $4000 to spend.

I sat on it a day and then called the bank and jokingly told them I was about to go shopping. They didn't find the joke funny and told me I could be charged with theft if I used any of it and did not pay it back.

 

[Josh5890]

It's funny how they thought they lucked into $120,000 and they used the opportunity to go into more debt.

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That was the only way they could swing the race car.

 

[samoyed]

All crimes are committed against the state

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What's the philosophical logic underpinning this?

 

[FeliciaFelix]

Er, you all know that wasnt the bank's money but from the person that sent the wire transfer?

 

[turbobutts]

you guys still arguing about whether or not stealing is good huh

 

[Deleted member 43]

What's the philosophical logic underpinning this?

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The state is the body invested with power to enforce the social contract by the consent of the governed. That means by violating the laws of said state, you are attacking the people as a whole. Therefore, crimes are not committed against individuals, they are committed against the state as the people's representative.

That's for criminal acts. Civil cases involve two or more parties, neither of which needs to be the state, but the state does serve as the arbitrator for whatever issue is in contention.

 

[samoyed]

The state is the body invested with power to enforce the social contract by the consent of the governed. That means by violating the laws of said state, you are attacking the people as a whole. Therefore, crimes are not committed against individuals, they are committed against the state as the people's representative.

That's for criminal acts. Civil cases involve two or more parties, neither of which needs to be the state, but the state does serve as the arbitrator for whatever issue is in contention.

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Okay, I get it.