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Could the DD have saved the N64 if released earlier?

A success if somehow released earlier?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 4.6%

  • No

    Votes: 103 95.4%
  • Total voters
    108
supermarioworldE

supermarioworldE

Member
Oct 26, 2017
735
New York
In many of the various console wars threads about the 32-64 bit era, I always find that comparisons are made when it comes to graphics and hardware between the consoles, but the conversations never really go into add-ons or accessories for them. In this thread I wanted to go into the N64 DD.

64DD-Attached.jpg


A commercial failure when released in 1999, the DD was a Japanese exclusive accessory to the N64. Originally announced in 1995 and showcased in 1996, the peripheral was supposed to improve the N64 with greater storage capability in disks (64mb) compared to cartridges (only a few late N64 games had 64mb cartridges), cheaper media and easier production compared to cartridges, a built in real time clock, add on disks to expand the cartridge based games (F-Zero X expansion kit for example), and add on for online services and gaming, 38mb of writable space on each disk, and many other features.

There seemed to be alot of potential for the accessory, given its strengths but only ten disks were released given its late debut and overall being a failure in Japan.

As asked in the thread title, could the 64DD have been a success for Nintendo if released earlier? How would it have affected 3rd party development for the N64? And would the N64 have been greater competition for Sony if the DD was successful?
 
Android Sophia

Android Sophia

The Absolute Sword
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,110
It probably wouldn't have helped significantly, as the storage capacity was still vastly different between the N64DD and the Playstation.

Having the 64 MB Magnetic disks from the getgo would have helped a lot tho.
 
PlzUninstall

PlzUninstall

Member
Oct 30, 2017
563
Maybe this was more in my child-brain but I feel the main selling point of the PS1 was the sheer number of games and also they tended to be generally cheaper too. 64 games were very expensive and I can only imagine the 64DD games being even more expensive which I can't imagine would be sustainable at all.
 
Velocity:Design:Comfort

Velocity:Design:Comfort

Banned
Nov 23, 2017
4,302
It would have maybe gotten mother 3 and ports of games that were on psx/saturn like Grandia, but besides that probably not. I would have loved to have gotten Mario Artist back in the day though
 
truly101

truly101

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,245
Console add ons and peripherals just don't seem to have that much of an impact on overall sales
 
Velocity:Design:Comfort

Velocity:Design:Comfort

Banned
Nov 23, 2017
4,302
PlzUninstall said:
Maybe this was more in my child-brain but I feel the main selling point of the PS1 was the sheer number of games and also they tended to be generally cheaper too. 64 games were very expensive and I can only imagine the 64DD games being even more expensive which I can't imagine would be sustainable at all.
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Nah, the games would have been much cheaper and more like CDs. You did not need to ship a circuit board on each one with memory
 
Vamphuntr

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,301
PlzUninstall said:
Maybe this was more in my child-brain but I feel the main selling point of the PS1 was the sheer number of games and also they tended to be generally cheaper too. 64 games were very expensive and I can only imagine the 64DD games being even more expensive which I can't imagine would be sustainable at all.
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CDs had much more storage space and were cheaper to produce compared to carts. Sony was able to offer really low print runs to publisher because of this.
 

Deleted member 17210

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,569
The 64DD was a bad idea period. I don't think consumers would be that enticed by cheaper games when it means buying another piece of hardware which, at least on the surface, doesn't make games really look any more advanced than the base unit.
 
Velocity:Design:Comfort

Velocity:Design:Comfort

Banned
Nov 23, 2017
4,302
The more I think about it, the more I feel like maybe people are underselling it. In actuality the gulf between PS1 graphics and N64 graphics were pretty big but the storage dictated the types of games each excelled in. If this had taken off we would have been games that are both more akin to the PS1's strengths, but with no warping textures and much better graphics. it wouldn't have beaten the PS1 in places like Europe/UK or the US still tho
 
LinkStrikesBack

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,364
Unless it was built in to the system, it wouldn't have been even the slightest blip.

Look how few games made the expansion Pak mandatory, and that was a fraction of the price.
 

Euler.L.

Alt account
Banned
Mar 29, 2019
906
CD drive, better development tools, and a more modern approach regarding third parties.

Not some dead on arrival expansion.
 
fiendcode

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,926
ILikeFeet said:
rather than "earlier" it should have been what the system was
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Yep. That's the better fantasy scenario and probably the only one that might've changed things significantly. Even if it'd have bumped up N64's launch price to $299 I think the system would've retained much more 3rd party support and by extension done much better in the market (especially Japan) if it'd had an affordable media solution.
 
Megatron

Megatron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,445
no add on can save a system. The closest I can think of is the Kinect, but a) the 360 was already doing fine, and b) that attracted a whole new audience. The DD would be aimed at attracting the same audience the n64 was already attracting. I don't think a lot of people would have bought the n64 for the dd.
 
GamerJM

GamerJM

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Nov 8, 2017
15,640
No, add-ons don't save systems. Also, the N64 didn't need saving, it was moderately successful.
 
Devilgunman

Devilgunman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,456
In history of video game, is there an accessory that significant changes trajectory of the console? Even an accessory that its publisher heavily supported to the point of shoving down its user bases like the Kinect was eventually abandoned.
 
fiendcode

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,926
Devilgunman said:
In history of video game, is there an accessory that significant changes trajectory of the console? Even an accessory that its publisher heavily supported to the point of shoving down its user bases like the Kinect was eventually abandoned.
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The only one I can think of is NEC's CD-ROM2 for PCE, but that was largely just for Japan. In America nothing was going to save TG16 after how badly NEC had bungled it here.
 
Weiss

Weiss

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Oct 25, 2017
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Do console add-ons ever sell well?

Either way I think the Playstation would have crushed it.
 
Manmademan

Manmademan

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Aug 6, 2018
16,019
GamerJM said:
No, add-ons don't save systems. Also, the N64 didn't need saving, it was moderately successful.
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the N64 sold 32.93 Million

5.54 Million Japan
20.0 million US
6.75 million in "other" regions

compared to the SNES (49.1 M):

17.17 Million Japan
23.35 Million US
8.5 million in "other" regions

This isn't "moderately successful." it was down 16 million from it's predecessor and got completely obliterated in Japan. That's the reason the GC ditched everything that made the N64 successful in the west- Nintendo's home territory absolutely loathed the system.
 
skeezx

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,171
i'm leaning towards "yes" but even if it did release earlier, and let's say for the sake of argument it had full support like FF7 and MGS and such, it'd still be looking at a narrow window before 6th gen (i.e. the behemoth that was ps2) cleared the playing field. i guess it's more a question if people would still be playing their N64s well into 2002 or '03 in spite of everything, which i doubt
 
fiendcode

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,926
Weiss said:
Either way I think the Playstation would have crushed it.
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PS1 probably still would've done better globally but I think N64 would've been much more competitive in America/Japan if the DD was build into the system day one. There would've been a lot more 3rd party support, particularly in Japan, and Nintendo might've been able to hold on to games like DQVII. I could see N64 at least matching SNES under those conditions.
 

Euler.L.

Alt account
Banned
Mar 29, 2019
906
fiendcode said:
In Europe it did about as well as SNES, like the US. Japan was really the region it saw a big decline.
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Sony sold 41 million Playstation consoles in Europe. The market wasn't the same anymore like back in the SNES times, which rather showcase how bad of a job Nintendo (and Sega) did to cultivate that market, because the playerbase was big, but they were on PC and home computers until Playstation.
 
fiendcode

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,926
Euler.L. said:
Sony sold 41 million Playstation consoles in Europe. The market wasn't the same anymore like back to SNES, which rather showcase how bad of a job Nintendo (and Sega) did to cultivate that market, because the playerbase was big, but they were on PC and home computers until Playstation.
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Yes, Europe has always been the source of Sony's biggest market expansion. In America and Japan they didn't really grow the market beyond what Nintendo had already established but they absolutely did in PAL regions. PlayStation really hit at the perfect time (microcomputers were on their deathbed thanks to Windows) plus for the first time a console had wide official support and distribution thanks to Sony's already established infrastructure in the region. In one gen they made Europe just as important a console market as America and Japan.

Nintendo by comparison wasn't really big in Europe until DS/Wii. But the point with with N64 is that it at least didn't mark a significant decline or collapse from SNES. The same can't be said for MD vs Saturn for example.
 
hyouko

hyouko

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Oct 27, 2017
3,220
There have been peripherals that have achieved comparatively high penetration, but they've all been game pack-ins like the DK64 expansion pak deal (or maybe arguably the Wii MotionPlus remotes, but those eventually started getting rolled out as standard I think). A bulky and expensive add-on like this one without a super obvious killer app would still have been a tough sell. Maybe developers would have stepped up in some way; I always felt the DD was pitched more at devs as a fix for the N64's shortcomings than at consumers directly.

If it had been there from the get-go as part of the base configuration, and the media prices were reasonable - hm. Might have seen more RE2-style ambitious cross-platform ports, at the least, and slowed the rate of third party bridge burning. I feel like that's just a cut down version of the "what if the N64 had used CDs" discussion that's been had ad nauseum, though.
 

Euler.L.

Alt account
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Mar 29, 2019
906
fiendcode said:
Yes, Europe has always been the source of Sony's biggest market expansion. In America and Japan they didn't really grow the market beyond what Nintendo had already established but they absolutely did in PAL regions. PlayStation really hit at the perfect time (microcomputers were on their deathbed thanks to Windows) plus for the first time a console had wide official support and distribution thanks to Sony's already established infrastructure in the region. In one gen they made Europe just as important a console market as America and Japan.

Nintendo by comparison wasn't really big in Europe until DS/Wii. But the point with with N64 is that it at least didn't mark a significant decline or collapse from SNES. The same can't be said for MD vs Saturn for example.
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N64 was at 5.5 million, while the SNES was at 8.5 million - in the rest of the world. That's a healthy step down: Especially in Growing markets.
 
fiendcode

fiendcode

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Oct 26, 2017
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Euler.L. said:
N64 was at 5.5 million, while the SNES was at 8.5 million - in the rest of the world. That's a healthy step down: Especially in Growing markets.
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N64 was 6.75m in other. A drop sure but not a real collapse like Sega faced or what Nintendo saw in Japan. It's very comparable to how N64 performed relatively in America.
 
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