Can't say I'm shocked that people from developed countries are defending these prices. It's not like they care about what happens to us, really.
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Cory Barlog Slams PlayStation for Charging Five Months Minimum Wage for a PS5 in Brazil
- Thread starter PS9
- Start date
In my country (Chile), PS5 digital version costs the same as xbox series X and Ps5 with disk is approximately 120 dollars more expensive.
63% of the cost if a PS4 in Brazil was due to imports fees and taxes. It was crazy expensive. What are the import fees and taxes on a PS5?
It is not something that Sony can adjust for without taking a massive loss. I assume that the consoles are being sold at a loss at the moment, worldwide.
The price in Brazil will be a combo of import costs, and Brazilian taxes/import duties.
The price in Brazil will be a combo of import costs, and Brazilian taxes/import duties.
I don't disagree with you. But our very own fascist government uses this consumer outrage that is real about gaming prices to build good will with the community. Gaming is huge in Brazil and Bolsonaro's administration has made some tax cuts directed to specific hardware, such as consoles, as a way to keep their support amongst people who are interested in gaming.
Outside from hottakers, didn't really see anyone proposing this as a top priority for our country, specially amongst my fellow Brazilians who are in this thread just to explain things and give context.
Well, on hardware, a PS5 with disc drive was launched here at US$ 341. So, you know, isn't really much more to do or say, other than reform the whole country really.
They were not bootleg consoles. TecToy was (and as far as i know still is) licensed by sega to do... whatever they wanted with sega property, basically. And it paid off.
"also, to be clear, I mean it is bullshit they cost that much and price is not adjusted accordingly per region"
I don't know who else besides PlayStation he could be talking about here.
That's...kinda incredible. I've never heard of someone licensing out their consoles, especially not with that much freedom. Guess Brazil was the perfect environment to test that arrangement out, and Sega the perfect company.
Yeah, was my mistake. They're not bootleg consoles, but licensed.
Sega was not... traditional in how they handled business. And it paid off, TecToy took the brunt of the work, translated games to portuguese, handled all the marketing, converted game gear/genesis games to the sms for brazil, even made new games from scratch, and the console really soared. While our market was full of famiclones, sega dominated gaming for two gens (and lasted several more) and with official hardware and software to boot. Shows how much actually caring for a market can do.
For everyone saying that the problems it's the taxes, I can mostly agree on that, but why in the Xone/PS4 era we had at launch:
2013 Dollar -> $1 = R$2,40 (good times)
Xbox One w/Kinect:
USA Price: $500
Converted price wo/taxes: R$1200
Price with Taxes: R$2200
PS4:
USA Price: $400
Converted price wo/taxes: R$960
Price with Taxes: R$4000
Even counting the taxes, how MS could sell Xones at almost half of the price as the console was pricier than PS4? What MS did differently? And more importantly why they didn't do this time?
2013 Dollar -> $1 = R$2,40 (good times)
Xbox One w/Kinect:
USA Price: $500
Converted price wo/taxes: R$1200
Price with Taxes: R$2200
PS4:
USA Price: $400
Converted price wo/taxes: R$960
Price with Taxes: R$4000
Even counting the taxes, how MS could sell Xones at almost half of the price as the console was pricier than PS4? What MS did differently? And more importantly why they didn't do this time?
Microsoft produced xboxes in Zona Franca till the X1 (industrial complex in Manaus). Thats how they skirted around the taxes.
Maybe it's giving him too much credit, but he could be putting all the actors (Sony, the local government, etc.) in the same basket. I dunno.
Yeap. I don't think Sony ever did that, exactly, with any of it's consoles, here in Brazil - they did assemble the PS4 here, after the launch, and it managed to lower the price, for a while, but it didn't last long.
Because the Xbox One was manufactured here from the start. The PS4 would become a nationalized product only in 2015.
That, of course, is a necessity. But it doesn't excuse a better price. And no, I don't fall for the idea that it doesn't maker business sense. If people didn't buy these devices at such a high price, they'd reduce. To be clear, I'm blaming both rich people who pay these prices and the companies who are okay with only letting rich people be their audience.
These companies have the means to make a profit with both hardware and software.
This thread is ridiculous, how the fuck are you guys blaming Sony for selling a console at regular price+plus taxes?
Maybe lets blame Brazil who charges nearly 70% of the cost of the PS5 in Import tax, while paying their people the equivalent of 200 dollars a month as minimum wage?
Imagine blaming Sony for not selling their luxury product at a loss while hand waiving the bullshit Brazil is putting forth.
Maybe lets blame Brazil who charges nearly 70% of the cost of the PS5 in Import tax, while paying their people the equivalent of 200 dollars a month as minimum wage?
Imagine blaming Sony for not selling their luxury product at a loss while hand waiving the bullshit Brazil is putting forth.
I'd be willing to wager he wouldn't start publicly advocating Sony sell PS5's at a huge loss in Brazil due to the government-imposed tariffs. And I doubt he believes that privately, but who knows.
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Got it. Well.. It sucks to have our country in the current state. I can't imagine MS or Sony producing the consoles here anymore.
Selling a PS5 here, at US$ 341, is selling it US$ 150 cheaper than you get elsewhere. And Sony is taking and even bigger loss, because in this US$ 341 are reseller margins, logistics and marketing costs. Now, add to that the fact that they are still losing money selling it at US$ 499 elsewhere.
I don't see how much more they could cut. Do you? How much do you think they should charge? US$ 100?
Want to blame them for software prices? Fair game, Sony could very well adjust prices to our market.
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Do they sell Xbox officially there? I had to buy my Series X here in Peru through a store that imported it.
Ya that sounds about right, just sucks that they can't do this before launch so that Brazilians can game at an affordable cost.
They could make the consoles here instead of importing, to begin with. They choose not to.
The Series X costs roughly the same here. 5 minimum salaries do make it look super expensive but it "only" costs 70-80% more than in the USA. Our import tax is 60% so that is more or less the expected price... Which is super expensive but I doubt it's something Sony can fix.
The real problem is our shity minimum wage that stopped rising since the coup that took the center-left party out of the government in 2016. We only had right wing neoliberal governments ever since, with no real minimum wage raise (in fact it's getting lower if you factor in inflation, as you should).
The real problem is our shity minimum wage that stopped rising since the coup that took the center-left party out of the government in 2016. We only had right wing neoliberal governments ever since, with no real minimum wage raise (in fact it's getting lower if you factor in inflation, as you should).
Well, for that debate we would need to have reliable data on their local costs. We don't, so it's all guesses on our part.
On the other hand, Sony has closed their manufacturing facilities in Brazil. I would hazard a guess that building a new factory here just to assemble PS5s would be a huge investment that they'll need to recoup somewhere, probably on hardware sales, defeating the whole point of actually manufacturing the thing here.
What? Unless you also consider computers to be luxury products there's no world where gaming consoles are "luxury" and must be taxed 40 and 50%. These are mass consumer electronics that eventually end up on the shelf next to toasters, but yeah I guess a Nintendo Switch is literally a Patek Phillipe. And not sure what your point is with grey market sports cars lol my point is you'd expect obscene taxes on a fucking Ferrari, a Rolex or a designer product. Yeah I'm aware a gaming console costs slightly more than a microwave, that doesn't make it some bourgeoisie product. I also don't think anyone here is suggesting this is the biggest and most serious problem in the world right now.
People are defending the cost?
edit: Went back and read the last couple pages. Yikes. People shouldn't be defending the cost. The anger at the cost should be pointed in the right direction though.
Amazing success story.
I doubt he thought it through to that degree. Just had a reaction born of empathizing with a fan and acknowledging the unjustness of their situation.
The whole "set prices accordingly" thing definitely centers PlayStation, though. And his gut instinct there might not even be entirely incorrect. Yeah, chances are Sony doesn't have much room to make the PS5 more affordable, but there's plenty else that could be done to make life easier for their Brazilian fans.
Unfortunately it's unlikely that Sony will do local manufacturing any time soon. Manufacturing process will be more complex, there is a chip shortage and its unclear how much bigger the sales would be in short term anyways.
I am thinking that after a revision or two they might be able to bring local manufacturing. Probably will be same with XSX. XSS though I could see MS producing locally sooner.
Edit: Game pricing though is bullshit. It's not just Sony but also other publishers. Wonder if it's because of region free consoles and the fact that people kept switching regions and buying cheap games in Latin American countries from the West.
I am thinking that after a revision or two they might be able to bring local manufacturing. Probably will be same with XSX. XSS though I could see MS producing locally sooner.
Edit: Game pricing though is bullshit. It's not just Sony but also other publishers. Wonder if it's because of region free consoles and the fact that people kept switching regions and buying cheap games in Latin American countries from the West.
Ah, that's nice. My Series X ended up costing about $900 here 😢
We have data from companies who used to manufacture here. Feel free to do some research on that.
And, they closed it. Again, their own choice.
Why are you defending them when we're the ones who have to pay so much for an imported console?
This is not a Sony only problem. MS is guilty of the same bullshit regarding hardware.
Ps5 costs 4.699 while SX costs 4.599, so basically the same ~950 dollars, slight edge to MS for being ~20 bucks cheaper.
Now the PS5 headset , for instance, costs 599 (roughly 120 dollars) while the MS official Xbox headset sells for 1.099 (basically twice the price), with both costing 99 bucks in the US. Bullshit from MS.
Software pricing tho, this is regularly cheaper on MS side, both in 1st and 3rd party games.. also Indies.
Anyway, yeah, tariffs and taxes are partially responsible for the prices, but not entirely.
Ps5 costs 4.699 while SX costs 4.599, so basically the same ~950 dollars, slight edge to MS for being ~20 bucks cheaper.
Now the PS5 headset , for instance, costs 599 (roughly 120 dollars) while the MS official Xbox headset sells for 1.099 (basically twice the price), with both costing 99 bucks in the US. Bullshit from MS.
Software pricing tho, this is regularly cheaper on MS side, both in 1st and 3rd party games.. also Indies.
Anyway, yeah, tariffs and taxes are partially responsible for the prices, but not entirely.
I can't speak for Brazil, but here in Argentina you can buy a PS5 (disk edition) for about U$1125 with the average salary being around U$205. Unfortunately I can't really fault Sony all that much for this, our government heavily taxes the ever living fuck out of everything they can come up with. Regional pricing can only do so much.
Someone mentioned in this thread that the tax on the PS5 when they purchased it was ~60%. You can't expect a company to eat that as a loss. The same goes for XBOX Series S/X and Switch.
The issue is more likely the tax placed on imported luxury goods as well as the low minimum wage.
Yeah, their choice, but neither one of us has numbers to judge if that was a choice made just to screw us over (probably wasn't) or if it was a solid business strategy. I guess Sony likes money, and as soon as having factories here wans't making them enough, they just decided to not have them anymore. Do I like or defend them from closing here? I don't care, really.
Sony closes all its manufacturing facilities - which includes TV, sound gear and everything else - for a reason. I'd say they weren't happy about their profits here and I'm telling you that expecting that they'll, less than a year after the decision to close everything, do a 180 turn and invest in building a new factory to make an extremely scarce top tier product, which they are facing lots of troubles to deliver everywhere, is not really feasible. And that's not defending them, it's just applying reason, they are a multibillion dollar corporation and I assure you that they want to remain as one. Anything beyond that wishful thinking and naiveté.
What I'm trying to do, and failing, is giving you data and context to reflect oversimplifications, some of them made by you. As I said, their pricing on software is egregious, it's absolutely their fault, and could and should be adjusted to our reality. Hardware? Not so much, as I pointed out to you, they sell their hardware here, now, at a bigger loss than they do elsewhere. Do I like it? No. Do I think it could be less out of their kindness? No. Facts are facts and it's juvenile to expect that a company will sell a premium product here at a fraction of what it does outside.
Changing the price of hardware I understand would be very complicated because of the taxxes, but the price of games and services Sony could rethink and localize for a reality more compatible with the situation in the country.
Amazon Prime in Brazil is a good example of a service that is cheap, manages to deliver and consequently exploded in popularity. And Prime in Brazil includes:
- Free shipping
- Prime Video
- Prime Music
- Prime Reading
- Prime Gaming
- Twitch Prime
All for R$9.90 month (~ U$ 1,93) or $90.00 annual (U$ 17.57)
Amazon Prime in Brazil is a good example of a service that is cheap, manages to deliver and consequently exploded in popularity. And Prime in Brazil includes:
- Free shipping
- Prime Video
- Prime Music
- Prime Reading
- Prime Gaming
- Twitch Prime
All for R$9.90 month (~ U$ 1,93) or $90.00 annual (U$ 17.57)
Curious how much the new XBox Series X and Switch is in those regions in comparison to US? Honest question, but does MS adjust prices? Does Nintendo? Or is it a Sony-only thing?
499 EUR is VAT included price, I believer 499 USD is without taxes!
hardware wise no, none of them offer it any cheaper unless producing in brazilian soil (or assembling it, like sony did before)
software wise afaik microsoft eats the taxes cost for many games and offer regional pricing, sony and nintendo convert as it is. some publishers still force their own mysterious prices on every platform however like WB which basically rob us with a bazooka and games costing 5 dollars on a deal end up costing 100R$+ here anyway
Can you please point out where I said they should reduce the price out of kindness?
Also, why do you think they aren't actively lobbying from less taxes?
See, you are using alot of classicism and exaggeration with no nuance, to totally ignore the wikipedia link I posted...this is a $500 dedicated console that just came out...so yes that is firmly in the luxury product category...did you even read the link in my last post? Yes, a Kia is not a luxury product for most people and a Ferrari is for most people...
Guess what "class" the PS5 fits in? Is it the "Kia" of gaming? Like come on, a $500 device is getting compared to a toaster...why does ANYONE need a PS5 right now? Right this second? It's not Sony making these taxes and fees, so yeah...maybe a PS4 or even a Switch that can be found used very easily, is closer to a Kia, while a much more expensive console that is very limited in availability in even the richest countries on Earth...that might be a luxury good.
So again...yes, the price of something, versus demand and availability...is like the main thing that makes it a luxury product. Geez some of you are all about taxing the rich (as you should be) but when someone actually does it, you act shocked because you don't want to believe you can afford something called a "luxury product" which you act like is some offensive term. Like yeah, governments tax things that aren't important and that are made by large and rich corporations.
He is not slamming PlayStation! He thinks the price is bullshit, and that's completely different. The price is not always set by Sony. There's tax and import fees, etc that doesn't have to do with Sony. Also, Sony is not going to sell a product at 1 dollar to accommodate for a a corrupt government.
Yes, it is shitty the price is high there as well as other regions, but the title of this thread is 100% clickbait and a lie.
Yes, it is shitty the price is high there as well as other regions, but the title of this thread is 100% clickbait and a lie.
Sorry but here has been a lot of posts covering those prices , also blaming MS for the same practices hardware wise (sometimes even worse than Sony).
Software wise tho, MS is easily ahead of the pack with regional pricing for most games.
You didn't said that nor I said you did. What you said was:
To what I have pointed out that they are actually selling their product at a way bigger loss here already, so they are doing what you are saying they should because you "don't fall for the idea that it doesn't make business sense". I won't get into the "rich people buying things drives prices up" because I see no point on it really. Nobody will boycott this and data showing that boycotting hot products drives prices down, or have any effect on long term business practices, are scarce or simply state that, actually, boycotts don't work.
That's a bold claim I would want to see backed by evidence. Do you happen to have any?
As a Brazilian who plays mostly on Sony's platform since the PS1, I've been slowly shifting to PC since the last year and I think it will be hard for me to go back with Sony current direction for our region.
PlayStation Store sales are a joke rn, no PlayStation Now for Brazil too. The recent PS+ 33% increased price.
Around BRL 4500 for a PS5, I've payed less than that for a good laptop which I can use to work, study and play most of recent titles with good performance at 1080p 60fps.
Just to mention a couple of recent releases price comparison between Sony's platform and PC:
Guilty Gear Strive Deluxe Edition on the PS Store: BRL 424 / On Steam: BRL 180
Ninja Gaiden Master Collection on the PS Store: BRL 214 / On Steam: BRL 75
Not to mention that most of PC games digital stores have ACTUAL sales, with actual good discounts and a wide variety of choice for those discounted games.
So yeah, I'm staying away from PlayStation unless things get better at a regional level.
Cory is a cool guy and I agree with him.
PlayStation Store sales are a joke rn, no PlayStation Now for Brazil too. The recent PS+ 33% increased price.
Around BRL 4500 for a PS5, I've payed less than that for a good laptop which I can use to work, study and play most of recent titles with good performance at 1080p 60fps.
Just to mention a couple of recent releases price comparison between Sony's platform and PC:
Guilty Gear Strive Deluxe Edition on the PS Store: BRL 424 / On Steam: BRL 180
Ninja Gaiden Master Collection on the PS Store: BRL 214 / On Steam: BRL 75
Not to mention that most of PC games digital stores have ACTUAL sales, with actual good discounts and a wide variety of choice for those discounted games.
So yeah, I'm staying away from PlayStation unless things get better at a regional level.
Cory is a cool guy and I agree with him.
Where did I mention a boycott? I said rich people are the only ones who can afford a PS5 at its price at the moment. Am I wrong? I also said that, because there are people who buy at the current price, there's no incentive to reduce it. Am I wrong?
I've been invested in the whole situation about the issues with games for over a decade now. The only victims are customers. Rich people don't care. Governments and companies are both at fault. If you want, you can do some research on how. I don't have the time to do this for you at the moment. But trust me when I say this, as I don't have any reason to lie about something that we'd all benefit from. If companies wanted gaming to be more affordable in Brazil, we'd be there years ago.
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure these are two different categories of taxes. PC games are classified in the software category (which has less taxes). Console games fall into video games.
If you say so. It's sad, but not surprising, that you're going on that path. It's just disappointing to have Brazilians who go out of their way to defend companies who are not on our side. I guess I should know by now that's the norm. But learning how to not engage with some people about some topics in this forum is a skill I'm still learning, and I think this is one I need to let go of.