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Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
theintercept.com

The Coronavirus Matters. The Stock Market Doesn’t.

With the arrival of a novel coronavirus, our obsession with the stock market may literally kill us.

Yesterday CNBC's Rick Santelli went further, staking out the position that stocks losing value is actually more terrifying than millions of deaths. "Maybe we'd be just better off if we gave it to everybody," Santelli sagely explained. That way, lots of people would expire quickly, thereby removing the uncertainty that's been plaguing investors.

It's easy to criticize Santelli, but he was just taking the logic of America's obsession with the stock market a few steps further than normal. For decades, whenever we've faced a choice between the reality of human beings and little numbers on a screen, we've always gone with the little numbers.
Yet the stock market has little direct relevance for regular people. By some estimates, the richest 10 percent of U.S. households account for over 80 percent of American stock ownership. The richest 1 percent by themselves own half of that, or 40 percent of stock. Half of Americans own no stock at all.

Once you understand this, the media's stock market mania is maddeningly hilarious.
The problem with the stock market is not it going up, down, or sideways. It's what our obsession with it has done to us. It's that paying attention to capitalism has made us think like capitalists. It exerts a gravitational-like pull on our psyches, nudging us psychologically to the right and shredding our instincts for social solidarity.

First, there's basic class conflict. Once you own even a modest amount of stock, you'll likely find yourself ambivalent about companies squeezing as much money as possible out of their employees, even if you're one of them. Rather than thinking about how to work with everyone else to stop the Fortune 500 from ravaging America, you're hoping to get your teeny-tiny personal share from the ravages.

"A lot of middle and upper middle-income people identify with the stock market's fate," says Henwood. "Instead of seeing it as their class enemy, they see it as their friend."

But a true friend would not incentivize you to profit from climate collapse.
Likewise, scientists have been warning for decades about exactly this kind of infectious disease. One of their suggestions was for the U.S. government to help pay to improve the public health infrastructure in poorer countries. We may all quite soon regret not doing this, even if it would have required making Amazon pay a tax rate greater than 1.2 percent and hence denting their stock price.

And if we'd been less transfixed by what corporations were doing, we could have realized what they can't do. In the imaginary world of economic textbooks, a huge pharmaceutical company would have poured tens of billions into developing the capacity to more quickly perfect and manufacture vaccines in huge volumes, so that the omniscient stock market would reward them for their prescience. Here on Earth, the stock market would have punished any company that took such a big risk with an uncertain payoff. Yet we couldn't see that the only way to better prepare for the new coronavirus would have been with much greater government action.
I recommend reading the whole article, as I left out most of it.

Will COVID-19 pop another economic bubble?
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,389
This is the problem of living via a LOLECONOMY and jobs cult culture. Falling for hypernormalisation and saying the symbols we project over society matter more than the society they're projected over. This is what happens when we all live for such nonsense and define it as "objective."

Only in a cult can the idea of a market needing to stabilize over people needing to stabilize be seen as the course of action. We're all in one, clearly, but it's critical to understand that.

Watch Hypernormalisation, y'all. Educate yourself on how we collectively believe that market value is objective value, and why that doesn't actually work for the complicated, real world we actually live in.
 

Cation

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,603
That is a pretty good article, written well about the paradox we are experiencing.

On your last point about the economic bubble - I think this is a rather unique time in history. We have apps that let people leverage their accounts massively to make/lose so much money in such an easy way. All the market models haven't accounted for the massive amounts of amateur investors

aka this is kinda uncharted territories
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,849
At some point the bureaucracy of it all overrode what it was initially put in place for, like never taking your comic books out of the sleeve
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,481
This is the problem of living via a LOLECONOMY and jobs cult culture. Falling for hypernormalisation and saying the symbols we project over society matter more than the society they're projected over.
Well put. Same idea that despite being more connected than ever before, humans are more isolated than ever before, which makes it easy to disassociate, whether it's a person behind a screen or real deaths happening over dollars.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
Yup. Its especially horrifying when you see garbage like this.

 

makonero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,664
Well put. Same idea that despite being more connected than ever before, humans are more isolated than ever before, which makes it easy to disassociate, whether it's a person behind a screen or real deaths happening over dollars.
"fuck you, got mine" has been around forever, but i do think tech makes it even easier these days to disassociate from anyone who literally isn't someone you know
 

Yatahaze

Member
Jun 17, 2018
356
The garbage is the lack of understanding of the point he was making.

The point he's making is insane, everyone getting it all at once would cause so many more people to die because the hospital system would be overloaded and completely fall apart. 20ish% of people that get this need hospitalization of some kind.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,389
"fuck you, got mine" has been around forever, but i do think tech makes it even easier these days to disassociate from anyone who literally isn't someone you know

I believe the problem is less so "fuck you got mine" and more so the problem of living for concepts, and then saying those concepts matter more than the real world.

Currently, we live in a world that says it's okay to make money burning the earth. If you can save money by abusing people, this is preferred. If you can find a way to make money off of the sick and dying, you're doing the good thing. Isolationist individualism comes into play in this context once the idea of money is wealth is normalised. It's the only way the above problems actually happen and why people move in directions to let them happen in those very problematic ways.

You only get to a "fuck you, I got mine" way of thinking if you're conditioned that society is solely transactional, it's a zero-sum game, and the way to win is to have money come your way above all else. All of that is brought on by thought and living for symbolisms and social projections.

This video's a long one, the title may seem hyperbolic, and it was recorded before this virus ever got in the news, but much of what Hedges says here is precisely the problem, and why this current issue is yet another damning problem to arise from it. Market value being seen as real value will literally kill us all.

 
Last edited:

Eeyore

User requested ban
Banned
Dec 13, 2019
9,029
The garbage is the lack of understanding of the point he was making.

I can't tell if this is bait, the 'he' in your statement isn't referring to the man who made the obnoxious statement, or you're genuinely indifferent to human suffering. I hope it's the middle option.
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
The point he's making is insane, everyone getting it all at once would cause so many more people to die because the hospital system would be overloaded and completely fall apart. 20ish% of people that get this need hospitalization of some kind.

Im pretty sure he didn't mean it literally, and it was a comment on the nature of the US stock market and uncertainty.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,389
Im pretty sure he didn't mean it literally, and it was a comment on the nature of the US stock market and uncertainty.

He's implying that to stabilize the market is the matter of utmost importance. He's suggesting we should normalize the problems of coronavirus to "get over it."

This will get people killed. Governments will cover up the outbreak to appease this very same market.
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
He's implying that to stabilize the market is the matter of utmost importance. He's suggesting we should normalize the problems of coronavirus to "get over it."

This will get people killed. Governments will cover up the outbreak to appease this very same market.

Well I didn't read it as a literal suggestion when I watched it.

Edit:
Watched it again - yeah ok, he might mean it literally.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,141
You can tell that's all Trump cares about lol. Not uninsured people getting sick, not people dying, etc.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,389
You can tell that's all Trump cares about lol. Not uninsured people getting sick, not people dying, etc.

Because he pushed himself as a businessman, and to run America like a business, this means "the market" has to be healthy.

Of course, even in Econ 101 books, pandemics are cited as negative forces to the stock market. This is why he says shit like people should go back to work and that it's not that bad. It's specifically bad because of the underutilisation of testing kits and being honest about spread. It then compounds beyond the administration's coverup by falling into forces outside of Trump: a country with a healthcare system that incentivizes not seeing doctors and a jobs cult that says things are good when people are stuck in service work, the largest domain that is exposed and cannot afford to not work during such a pandemic.
 
May 21, 2018
2,024
Yup. Its especially horrifying when you see garbage like this.



When one's head is so deep in the anus of the stock market bubble that they can't see the rest of the world.

Like how myopic does one's view have to be to not realize that the stock market is just a little playpen that is supported by a foundation of working people. Take out that foundation and see what that does for uncertainty, lol.