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Why is it so bad for an artist (or cultural organisation) to not cancel a show when the official advise is still to not cancel (at least, in my country)? If people find it too risky to come, they can just cancel their ticket/choose not to come. These are extraordinary circumstances that nobody saw coming and especially when you are a smaller artist/organisation you need the events to keep afloat. You're saying "money factors in, and people are willing to sacrifice" as if artists and organisations that don't cancel their events are capitalist assholes that go for money over the lives of people.
I personally work for a small cultural organisation and festival that depends on private funding from art funds and governmental funding. These funds are our only significant source of "income" and the only way we're able to pay people like me, the rent on our building, etc. The thing with these funds is that they only transfer (all) the money once the plans we sent them are executed and executed to satisfaction.
So if we would cancel our upcoming events (or worse, our festival) we would potentially incur a huge, unmanageable, loss as we would maybe lose all of our funding (it's currently very unclear whether or not the private and governmental funds have an insurance for Covid-19 induced losses and cancellations). That's why a lot of cultural organisations don't cancel their events, as they will potentially have to fold entirely if we would cancel now, while a lesser amount of visitors can still be easily explained away.
We're not some sort of monsters that have the idea of "if people die, they die", but we're all struggling to keep our businesses afloat and yes, in this case that requires making the choice to not cancel as long as possible.
Hey Little Uzi, I'm sorry I couldn't donate more I had bills to pay and my paycheck comes in next Thursday but in the meantime enjoy the $8, let's go boys!!
Y'all know you can look after your own and still throw a bone to the little guys too (if you are so inclined) right?
If shit really hits the fan then obviously priorities, but some of the responses in here make it seem like people don't think the arts hold much value or have a lot of knowledge about the financial reality the vast majority of artists face.
If shit really hits the fan then obviously priorities, but some of the responses in here make it seem like people don't think the arts hold much value or have a lot of knowledge about the financial reality the vast majority of artists face.
So? This is the reality of any self employed person or business in America
Stock up on supplies.
Be ready for a bigger emergency in case things go south (and they fucking will) in the following months.
Nobody will give a flying fuck about some random ass band not having their concerts, while a medical emergency might mean deaths and unexpected things.
I really read the stupidest bullshit in this fucking forum.
Be ready for a bigger emergency in case things go south (and they fucking will) in the following months.
Nobody will give a flying fuck about some random ass band not having their concerts, while a medical emergency might mean deaths and unexpected things.
I really read the stupidest bullshit in this fucking forum.
People do not want to take responsibility. They trust that organizations act in peoples interest. Which they dont.
Not even the governments do. Companies, instututions and organizations — They all act when they are forced to. It's simply damage control. Collateral damage is wildly accepted.
Recommendations are often ignored and they start acting — if at all — when they are forced. To keep the diseases from spreading it needs more than posters with warnings and the recommendation to "wash hands before and after every time you touched your face" — which is not practical to do on such big events either way.
People, even if its just a small percentage, die because of this selfish desire to attend a musical event. Just so that Marie can see her band, were she gets infected with non to mild symptoms and then spread it to her neighbour who was about to receive a organ donation took immune suppressant and now is losing the fight for her life.
At least in my country the official recommendation of the official government institution for health and safety is to not cancel events. If they would recommend otherwise, we would of course have a serious discussion about whether or not we would cancel or not. The thing is that our (mine, my colleagues, the organisations in general) livelihoods are on the line as well. It's not like an event organiser or artist (especially if they're small/mid-size) can usually totally exist outside of the events and tours they organise. I wish that was the case, then we would cancel immediately just to be sure and just wait for next year.
However, we're just as uncertain about the future as any business and currently going against the recommendation of the official health and safety board and cancelling would possibly lead to us losing all our funding and not being able to exist anymore. I totally see where you're coming from, but the reality simply is that part of the responsibility does lie with the people, as we could at the moment explain away the lesser amount of visitors to the funders, but a straight up cancellation would possibly be harder to explain without losing significant amounts of money (again, of which none is 'profit', it's all overhead costs to even be able to exist).
I wouldn't call it weird. Perhaps unusual as critical thinking is apparently in short supply. The context and implications of the OP when taken in conjunction with the tweets lent to a rationale conclusion that smaller/indie, less financially stable artists were being referenced. I'm assuming the tweets by Mat Dryhurst were in the OP, but regardless, if you are going to make an assumption one way or another, the more absurd one is that the OP is asking for us to support millionaires with a $5-10 purchase.
I know for festival-style shows like SXSW, a sizable contingent of the bands are far from making big bucks. Some of the members of these bands might be serving your morning coffee, driving your Uber, or bagging your groceries as their "second" job. I personally know a guy whose band has played at some of the name-brand festivals and he's a substitute teacher to pay the bills.
I ordered something off eBay in January that was to be sent from China but never arrived. Should I also not pursue a refund because they're having a hard time over there?
I'm of course being sarcastic, because I'm not going to go through the next year trying to bail out everyone who might be negatively impacted by COVID-19.
I'm of course being sarcastic, because I'm not going to go through the next year trying to bail out everyone who might be negatively impacted by COVID-19.
Resetera gaming forums may be full of people that follow the development of games from their favourite developers, but I don't think it's controversial to say that the vast majority of those who play video games don't put any thought into the makers of or the development of games.
Listening to music does not equal following the careers of those who make the music.
What entitlement?
Sorry, this is entirely misplaced. There's care workers, doctor's and the vulnerable that should receive the public's sympathies and financial support, or nation's abroad that are struggling to provide basic treatment towards combating covid-19, not already comfortable members of music and entertainment. There's simply no comparison, and honestly you should have known this before posting, I'm simply astonished at the suggestion. Actually go as far to say I'm aggravated by anyone using this pandemic to misinform and profit. "Buy merch", honestly, step away from Twitter.
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Alright.
I mean, reading the OP sort of gives you some context, right? And by "sort of" I mean, quite a lot.
Anyway, I thought it was pretty obvious the OP was talking about small, independent artists and creatives and not huge, international, mega-millionaires. I didn't think it was necessary for the OP to spell that out.
Huh? You realize just about every event I have planned was before the outbreak blew up? I trust that venues, sponsors, and organizers aren't going to put on a show if the liability is too high. They will and have been cancelling.
I live in a big city. I rely on public transit. It's literally impossible for me to not be exposed to hundreds or thousands of people every day. My daily commute really isn't any different than what I'd be exposed to at a concert. If WHO or the CDC or local health officials say that going to public venues is unsafe or institute travel and movement restrictions and I disobey that, you're correct, that's selfish reckless behavior. Right now in my case that is not the case; no such advisory is in place, and to assume I know better than medical professionals is presumptuous.
The entire basis of the tweet is that this IS happening to artists, so writing some post about how nobody will cancel shows because people will go makes me wonder if you even read the OP.
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But they have been, hence the OP's tweet.
Hell, just today SXSW, a major conference for filmmakers and artists, got cancelled, leaving lots of artists and local businesses completely in the lurch. That's a lot of money left on the table.
The entire thread is about how organisers (and/or cities) have been cancelling these events and how that has massively impacted the livelihoods of people counting on those events to take place.
Like, take SXSW. Aside from the artists now losing their fees and money invested into organising the performances, there are also tons of people working at venues, organisations connected to SXSW, SXSW itself, etc. that are now losing a significant amount of income from these cancellations. A lot of hourly workers depend on a festival SXSW to earn their income for months, perhaps even a full year, and are now losing that without a clear alternative.
That's the part a lot of people are forgetting when it comes to these cancellations. For some reason there's this prevailing idea that the artists and people working on the festivals and events will be fine if these events are cancelled. They won't and that's a cause for concern.
The cultural sector will be hit hard by the fact that Covid-19 will cause cancellations and the prevailing notion that event organisers and artists that don't cancel are somehow unethical bastards who knowingly put people at risk isn't helping.
No it's because you're not an idiot, though I do love the avalanche of performative dipshittery from people acting like the thread poster ask them to mortgage their house to prop up small musicians.
Artists get very, very little money out of streaming (I think Spotify pays an artist €0,00023 per stream). For big artists this can be a good source of income because even with such a low amount of cash, millions of streams add up, but for smaller artists Spotify is mostly just a part of marketing and not a money maker.
User Warned: inappropriate comparison
Global infection: exists
Resetera posters: BUY MERCHANDISE AND USELESS STUFF
At what point does this kind of stuff becomes mental illness?
Before getting accused of shitposting and whatnot, other posters already articulated how this is some truly weird shit, for example
Which couldn't be stated better
Seriously people step the fuck away from twitter if you are prone to becoming a succubi or a cultist
Resetera posters: BUY MERCHANDISE AND USELESS STUFF
At what point does this kind of stuff becomes mental illness?
Before getting accused of shitposting and whatnot, other posters already articulated how this is some truly weird shit, for example
Which couldn't be stated better
Seriously people step the fuck away from twitter if you are prone to becoming a succubi or a cultist
Ok, but am I to buy merchandise I really don't want to compensate for that? Do I have to do that for every band I stream? What's a fair amount of stuff to buy per listen?
And who is supporting you? Me? Us? Sorry, but i'm not gonna support some artist. We should support people who are dealing with this virus, trying to find the cure, helping humanity.
Remember to tip your servers triple to compensate for reduced business.
I don't think anyone is saying you have to buy anything that you don't want to. The argument used is that many artists are losing a lot money through this and may not be able to recoup those sunk costs anytime soon, so if you can spare some money it could help to for instance buy some of your favourite band's music vs. just streaming it.
I saw on Twitter that another artist that got an important show cancelled at SXSW set up a donation account so that fans would be able to help out if they wanted to.
This is not really comparable to this situation, as servers get paid regardless of reduced business if they're hourly. What might happen is that they lose their amount of hours a week, which is bad in itself, but still something totally different than what's going on with indie creatives.
An artist cancelling a show doesn't get paid at all and loses their invested money for renting the venue, renting the equipment, paying for marketing, etc.
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I always tip my servers, but if they are good/nice, but here in germany, they get paid normal, so they dont live of from tips.
I listen to indie bands a lot, go to shows and buy records and merch. Most of us know what sort of bands you mean. The idea that this is important right now is just making my head spin and I dont find it weird at all that it offends some posters. Priorities and all.
I'm just waiting for my choir's performances to get canceled, either because too many people are sick or because the average age of our attendees is 70. We operate on very thin margins (basically a fight to break even most of the time and still have to get city grants and pay in our own money to fund things), so I dunno what the plan is if we can't do our last two concerts of the season.
This is OT, but generally I'd say yes if that's something you really care about doing. Part of the reason why artists have to rely so much on tours and merch now is because streaming pays less than pennies. If you're curious, you could bring up your streaming history and do the math of how much money has actually been paid out to artists.
And your point is...? Im not saying that events are not cancelled. I am sayin' that you can't count on organizers cancelling the event because they want to protect people. (Mind me: Not all organizations think like that. Many decided right away to cancel because it is the right thing.) You can not expect every organization to act in good faith, because they don't. To trust an organization to make this decision for you is naive.
If they announce to hold an event and eventually cancel it, it is because the situation is so fucked up that they can't get away with holding the event either way.
And there is a difference between "Government recommends to keep 2m distance to other people." (Many are infected, keep distance. It's an invisible danger.) and goverment sayin' "This event can't take place." (It's save to assume that 1/3 would be infectious depending on size of event).
To say that everyone sticks to the recommendations is bullshit. You can not make sure that everyone at a concert won't get closer to one another than 2 meters. You can't "make sure" that it is possible for every person to wash their hands each time before and after they touch their face.
It is not possible. And that's why it's the perfect breeding ground or petridish for it to spread.
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Utter nonsense. It's not my job to do all that legwork to compensate for a broken system by buying trash I'm going to throw away.
If that's socially wrong then I'm happy to just not listen to their music at all *shrug*
Cancellation insurance. You take (well, you should) take it out on every show. Covers an artist for costs/fees if a show is cancelled for a whole host of reasons. It's really important to have, the bigger the show is (because the bigger the costs are)
Unfortunately a virus epidemic isn't covered. It's 'force majeure' or 'an act of god'. Insurers won't cover you for it. They're all updating their policies to specifically include 'won't cover for cancellations related to coronavirus'.
If you're on tour and each show costs you ~€20,000 to put on (crew wages, tour bus hire, flights, hotels, etc) and two shows in the middle are cancelled due to coronavirus concerns then you're suddenly out €40,000 with no insurer saving you. You still have to pay your crew and your bus hire and your flights etc. These are all things that would normally be saved by having an insurance policy in place.
That's why I said "if that's something you really care about doing". I also never suggested you have to buy "trash" either; actually buying music would have a similar effect.
To be clear, I'd also say the same thing even if COVID-19 didn't exist, but it certainly does exacerbate the situation.
I'm getting out of this thread, because clearly I'm of a different mindset than most people here, but it truly is shocking to me how many people on this forum consider the arts something that doesn't deserve support when they need it.
If you care for a band and enjoy listening to their music, why do you consider buying their music 'buying trash I'm going to throw away'?
This thread is absolutely bizarre.
All the OP is saying is that maybe instead of streaming an indie artist you like, throw $10 at them via Bandcamp or whatever IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO.
It isn't some conspiracy to separate you from your hard-earned dollars.
Put it in phrasing they will understand.
"Toss a coin to your indie artist..."
All the OP is saying is that maybe instead of streaming an indie artist you like, throw $10 at them via Bandcamp or whatever IF YOU CAN AFFORD TO.
It isn't some conspiracy to separate you from your hard-earned dollars.
Put it in phrasing they will understand.
"Toss a coin to your indie artist..."
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No I'm pretty sure the OP is asking for everyone to sacrifice their first born to help artists out. We're just gunna jump all the way to the most logical conclusion on this one.
I'm talking about merchandise. But even to your point I'm paying for the streaming service. It shouldn't be my responsibility to double dip. I'm paying for a service that publishers sign up to and artists agree to by proxy when they sign to publishers. It's broken, I'm not denying that, but if I'm already paying for it why should I need to pay again?
I knew exactly what the OP was saying. I normally would move on without a reply instead I'll explain that I can't even risk that financialy at this point but good gesture OP.
Wow that was hard.
Wow that was hard.
"Are these artists gonna help me pay my rent?"
Like, do artists usually help you pay your rent, or do you help them pay theirs?
This thread is fucking embarrassing.
Every time a thread on Era about the arts come up, the user base here shows its whole ass.
You'd think an enthusiast site would have less dissonance when it comes to having empathy about struggles of other enthusiasts. Nope. Straight tunnel vision.
Yuuup
Major 'fuck you, got mine' energy in here
i already do that. buy cds/vinyl/merch.
so while i'm waiting on money being refunded for tickets i should throw them more money? nah.
so while i'm waiting on money being refunded for tickets i should throw them more money? nah.
Why are so many people taking the topic literally as if you're gonna get judged for not buying merch/vinyl. No one is forcing you to do shit.
Some of y'all lack common sense. The topic even says "if you can".. yet people are bringing up rent and food?
I, for one, have stopped spending money on anything besides water, canned goods, and toilet paper.
How fucking dare you suggest I buy a t-shirt during these trying times.
How fucking dare you suggest I buy a t-shirt during these trying times.