Core-A Gaming Sidenote: Why Motion Inputs Still Exist

[ImaPlayThis]

They also need to watch the video again then.

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I've watched the video 3 times now lol, I know what I'm talking about in how some people who don't like motions would react to it, as they don't really give a reason that would sway many anti-motion people, they'd still be out here calling them outdated and archaic

 

[P A Z]

"Id play fighting games if they had easy inputs" and yet those games do exist and people aren't playing them because they're full of shit.

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Why would casual players know these games exist if they're nowhere near as popular as the major titles? Your logic makes no sense here.That's the weird thing with fighting games, the more popular titles are also the harder to get into. I sure as shit didn't hear about guilty gear, fantasy strike and others until I joined this forum so anyone with even less interest should have no clue these games exist.

 

[Alienous]

Maybe watch it again.

My take from it was that motion or charge inputs, character play styles and move lists are inextricably linked. If you are looking to change one you may have to add additional mechanics like cooldown timers to accommodate. It becomes a different kind of game by doing that. There's nothing wrong with that, but there are people out there who currently enjoy the old style that didn't include cooldown timers.

[...]

I typically play FPS games with a controller, and as a result that means I can only really play FPS games that work well with a controller. What I haven't done in response to this is to decry the popularity of mouse-and-keyboard shooters, or to cross my fingers that a specific developer will come into the genre with a game that completely turns the genre on its head through removing legacy aspects.

I'm able to recognise why using mouse-and-keyboard is fun for people and why it enables a style of play that I otherwise may not get in other shooters, and that's ok. Gyro inputs are cool and they allow me to bridge some of that gap but I can understand why things like auto-aim or magnetic bullets may not be appropriate in shooters that prioritise precise aiming as a key mechanic.

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I don't think people talk about fighting games to do the equivalent of "[decrying] the popularity of mouse-and-keyboard shooters", at least not in the way I believe you're saying it happens. It's the lack of popularity that makes people comment. It's wanting fighting games to be bigger.

What I see a lot of is putting the 'blame' on the player, not the hurdle. 'There aren't that many motions', 'Yeah, motions are harder on the analog stick, use the d-pad'. I want to see the hurdle challenged instead of worked around.

I don't want to see a compromised Street Fighter. I want to see if game design wit can substitute motion inputs, which aren't well matched with modern primary game inputs, to remove a hurdle. It won't be an Alien: Resurrection (introducing dual-stick controls) that does it, it will be a Halo - something that can match the biggest in the genre.

If something like Project L releases and it pulls that off I think that's a good thing. Given that competitive viability is a focus of Riot I'm also hopeful it can be done without compromising depth. I get the concern that it might lessen something you already like, but I think the attempt needs to be made. People try to adapt to fighting games and fail, I want to see a big game adapt to them.

 

[Professor Beef]

If gamepads were the primary input devices on arcade machines in the early 1990s motion inputs wouldn't be a thing. No designer would ask players to roll their thumb over a d-pad.

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This is specious reasoning. Fighting games have been on consoles as well since the early 90s and they play perfectly well on pad with no issues.

Why would casual players know these games exist if they're nowhere near as popular as the major titles? Your logic makes no sense here.That's the weird thing with fighting games, the more popular titles are also the harder to get into. I sure as shit didn't hear about guilty gear, fantasy strike and others until I joined this forum so anyone with even less interest should have no clue these games exist.

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Maybe they should do some research, then.

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

cooldowns in a fighting game are so much harder than motion inputs. Motions you just do the input and get the move...cooldown you have to keep track of cooldowns while in the middle of 50 other decisions per second

 

[Just Great]

I don't think people talk about fighting games to do the equivalent of "[decrying] the popularity of mouse-and-keyboard shooters", at least not in the way I believe you're saying it happens. It's the lack of popularity that makes people comment. It's wanting fighting games to be bigger.

What I see a lot of is putting the 'blame' on the player, not the hurdle. 'There aren't that many motions', 'Yeah, motions are harder on the analog stick, use the d-pad'. I want to see the hurdle challenged instead of worked around.

I don't want to see a compromised Street Fighter. I want to see if game design wit can substitute motion inputs, which aren't well matched with modern primary game inputs, to remove a hurdle. It won't be an Alien: Resurrection (introducing dual-stick controls) that does it, it will be a Halo - something that can match the biggest in the genre.

If something like Project L releases and it pulls that off I think that's a good thing. Given that competitive viability is a focus of Riot I'm also hopeful it can be done without compromising depth. I get the concern that lessen something you already like, but I think the attempt needs to be made. People try to adapt to fighting games and fail, I want to see a big game adapt to them.

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Setting aside that I disagree Halo stands up to anything in the top of that genre, if Project L has any amount of Rising Thunder DNA, it wouldn't sate someone's desire for Street Fighter but with "simple" controls, because the controls are intrinsically linked to Street Fighter's balance and gameplay. That is supposing that it's a refinement of Rising Thunder. It would be interesting to see if they went with motion inputs, I wonder how much it would really limit the audience with that brand behind it.

 

[The Turbanator]

cooldowns in a fighting game are so much harder than motion inputs. Motions you just do the input and get the move...cooldown you have to keep track of cooldowns while in the middle of 50 other decisions per second

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Use a single EX move in Granblue and you will absolutely find this to be true. Nothing like trying to land a corner combo after a big jump in but forgetting your used that one good EX special a bit ago so now your entire combo flow is dead.

 

[skillzilla81]

Use a single EX move in Granblue and you will absolutely find this to be true. Nothing like trying to land a corner combo after a big jump in but forgetting your used that one good EX special a bit ago so now your entire combo flow is dead.

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Percy main here.

Cannot count how many times I've tried to do 5h fireball after using EX and just getting the long slooooow normal, lol.

 

[Neoxon]

I don't think people talk about fighting games to do the equivalent of "[decrying] the popularity of mouse-and-keyboard shooters", at least not in the way I believe you're saying it happens. It's the lack of popularity that makes people comment. It's wanting fighting games to be bigger.

What I see a lot of is putting the 'blame' on the player, not the hurdle. 'There aren't that many motions', 'Yeah, motions are harder on the analog stick, use the d-pad'. I want to see the hurdle challenged instead of worked around.

I don't want to see a compromised Street Fighter. I want to see if game design wit can substitute motion inputs, which aren't well matched with modern primary game inputs, to remove a hurdle. It won't be an Alien: Resurrection (introducing dual-stick controls) that does it, it will be a Halo - something that can match the biggest in the genre.

If something like Project L releases and it pulls that off I think that's a good thing. Given that competitive viability is a focus of Riot I'm also hopeful it can be done without compromising depth. I get the concern that it might lessen something you already like, but I think the attempt needs to be made. People try to adapt to fighting games and fail, I want to see a big game adapt to them.

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Having such a cooldown-based system in fighting games built for them is one thing, as is the case with Granblue Versus. But trying to force them into Street Fighter or Marvel vs. Capcom would result in major compromises with regards to the number of moves certain characters can have. To use Ed as an example, he can't have as many special moves as other characters in the game because all of his specials are based on two-button combinations rather than motions. That's fine for him since, again, he was designed around that. But squeezing that onto someone like Ibuki would result in her losing a number of her moves. And for a more extreme example, Dante would lose a vast majority of his moves in the MvC games.

 

[TreeMePls]

Why would casual players know these games exist if they're nowhere near as popular as the major titles? Your logic makes no sense here.That's the weird thing with fighting games, the more popular titles are also the harder to get into. I sure as shit didn't hear about guilty gear, fantasy strike and others until I joined this forum so anyone with even less interest should have no clue these games exist.

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You say this as if we live in a world where its impossible to get millions of search results in a blink of an eye by typing in a few keywords in a search bar.

 

[KINGOFSHIBUYA Ltd.]

I thought Ed was a great idea. Controls and everything about game design should be constantly scrutinized and questioned.

Players, as people conditioned to accumulate familiarity and find winning strategies quickly, are usually resistant to change, so I don't see motion inputs going away entirely ever, no matter what new IPs come along without them.

That being said, the video sort of treaded a lot of the same arguments folks have seen before, that I dont think satisfy the criticism of the design choice. Saying "this one kid learned it" and "this dog did it in a video" are straw man arguments. Nobody is actually saying it's impossible completely, or that most people cant ever do them. It's more of "is this good in a video game" which is a lot more complicated than "can it be done in a video game".
It even does the classic gamer counter argument of "yeah but if you changed things, they'd be different", as if redesigned large portions of a game is inherently bad.
Yeah, if you change the control scheme of a competitive game, you'll have to reevaluate how that effects ever scenario and matchup. That's what design is about.

I personally enjoy motion inputs, and I really like the arcade tradition of every game having controls (and maybe even a controller) built just for it's design. I love that every game can have coherent and united design from the hardware up.
Also, I like playing SFV on PS4 and using a fight stick to bridge the gap there.
I just don't expect my friends to ever want to play with me, because of the barrier of entry to even playing in the first place that they're used to not being so high.

I don't see this changing too much in the future due to culture. So I'll just keep playing SFV online hoping for good connections, and when I'm with my friends we'll just keep playing Smash Bros, where the game has many moves, but still controls as simple as a Kirby game.

I'm sure there's folks with accessibility needs who don't like these inputs, but I can't really speak on that, as I can't personally relate.

 

[Deleted member 442]

I don't think people talk about fighting games to do the equivalent of "[decrying] the popularity of mouse-and-keyboard shooters", at least not in the way I believe you're saying it happens. It's the lack of popularity that makes people comment. It's wanting fighting games to be bigger...

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Yeah I'm with you, happy with the points that you've made. People in the FGC do seem very stuck on why their games don't have broader appeal. I am open minded on whether that is actually a problem but I know I won't have many people agreeing with me on that.

I think your point around why other genres do not get the same kind of criticism is fair, it does seem like some people in the FGC tend to attract or invite a lot of discussion around why these games may not be more popular.

Those other genres do have games that have either broken through to a new audience on a format that was previously thought to have major constraints (Halo 20 years ago) or games that are just so ridiculously popular that it doesn't seem to matter how complicated they may get (FPS BR games).

Fighting games had some of those characteristics around 30 years ago, and it is kinda crazy to think that's really how long some of this stuff has been going on for. I remember the days when kids my age were getting incredibly excited over SF2 on the SNES and the Mega Drive / Genesis.

Nihongo Gamer recently posted the below video that talks around some of the points that have been raised in this thread, and I liked his question around 'how much of a game do you need to chop off or change before it gets popular?'

Give it a watch if you have a chance.

 

[2shd]

I don't like it, but I understand.

That said, I would rather do fireball motions than double tap forward/back.

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Back to forward (non-charge) motions only really make senes for games like MK with a block button because there are no side mixups.

NRS making so many motions B-F in Injustice 2 like in MK was a terrible decision since that game is back-to-block. It makes going from a blocking state to the motion super awkward. Yeah, they have an alternate control mode, but it never felt right.

 

[Alienous]

Setting aside that I disagree Halo stands up to anything in the top of that genre, if Project L has any amount of Rising Thunder DNA, it wouldn't sate someone's desire for Street Fighter but with "simple" controls, because the controls are intrinsically linked to Street Fighter's balance and gameplay. That is supposing that it's a refinement of Rising Thunder. It would be interesting to see if they went with motion inputs, I wonder how much it would really limit the audience with that brand behind it.

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Having such a cooldown-based system in fighting games built for them is one thing, as is the case with Granblue Versus. But trying to force them into Street Fighter or Marvel vs. Capcom would result in major compromises with regards to the number of moves certain characters can have. To use Ed as an example, he can't have as many special moves as other characters in the game because all of his specials are based on two-button combinations rather than motions. That's fine for him since, again, he was designed around that. But squeezing that onto someone like Ibuki would result in her losing a number of her moves. And for a more extreme example, Dante would lose a vast majority of his moves in the MvC games.

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I wouldn't want to see input changes forced into any fighting game. I wouldn't want to see it if it meant Street Fighter would have 95% of the depth it once had. That's why I'm keen to see what Project L does - because if striking a better balance between assessibility (inputs, free-to-play) and competetive depth is possible they might be best poised to innovate fighting game design there.

Yeah I'm with you, happy with the points that you've made. People in the FGC do seem very stuck on why their games don't have broader appeal. I am open minded on whether that is actually a problem but I know I won't have many people agreeing with me on that.

[...]

Nihongo Gamer recently posted the below video that talks around some of the points that have been raised in this thread, and I liked his question around 'how much of a game do you need to chop off or change before it gets popular?'

Give it a watch if you have a chance.

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I appreciate the detailed posts and thanks for linking that video, I will give it a watch.

 

[DoubleTake]

I was like you, bought an arcade stick this Christmas, went the expensive route to give me extra motivation, and it has so much increase my enjoyment, I just feel way more in control with a stick rather than a dpad, don't miss any motion (or just a few) anymore. It has been a great experience.

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Ugh I cannot wait! Itll be coming in tomorrow! Gonna be nice doing waved ashes easily.

The F500 is pretty good. i bought it as my first stick also and have been having fun with it. I am mostly playing 2D non fighting games with it. Cuphead with it is pretty fun

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I didnt even think about side scrollers, and I just bought Cuphead!

 

[Smoshow]

The crux of the video is not all games need to have simple inputs. For those that are not able or willing to learn them support the games that already have simple input methods. There is merit to complex inputs as a way to balance and design a game.

And since this is a fighting game thread I made a tier list for which type of inputs each get has. GranBlue is kind of in between the top and middle tiers. This is not a commentary on which I think is better.

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[The Turbanator]

The crux of the video is not all games need to have simple inputs. For those that are not able or willing to learn them support the games that already have simple input methods. There is merit to complex inputs as a way to balance and design a game.

And since this is a fighting game thread I made a tier list for which type of inputs each get has. GranBlue is kind of in between the top and middle tiers. This is not a commentary on which I think is better.

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MK def belongs in the top tier if KI is in there. The input for command grabs makes no sense.

 

[Golden Darkness]

I hadn't played fighting games in a long long time. And the only motion commands I could pull off is the charge and quarter circle.

So I have to ask, what are the more complex motion inputs needed to execute a move?

 

[Professor Beef]

I hadn't played fighting games in a long long time. And the only motion commands I could pull off is the charge and quarter circle.

So I have to ask, what are the more complex motion inputs needed to execute a move?

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If you're playing Capcom games, the only things more complex than a quarter circles would be a 360 motion (which doesn't actually require a full 360 motion), or double motions.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

Why would casual players know these games exist if they're nowhere near as popular as the major titles? Your logic makes no sense here.That's the weird thing with fighting games, the more popular titles are also the harder to get into. I sure as shit didn't hear about guilty gear, fantasy strike and others until I joined this forum so anyone with even less interest should have no clue these games exist.

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Granblue is a gigantic IP. You didn't hear about some games...ok? doesn't really say anything about everyone else.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I hadn't played fighting games in a long long time. And the only motion commands I could pull off is the charge and quarter circle.

So I have to ask, what are the more complex motion inputs needed to execute a move?

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- DP motion forward/back
- Half-circle forward/back
- Double Quarter-circle forward/back
- Double Half-circle forward/back
- 360 motion
- Pretzel motion
- The one Pentagram motion

 

[Boogler]

Back to forward (non-charge) motions only really make senes for games like MK with a block button because there are no side mixups.

NRS making so many motions B-F in Injustice 2 like in MK was a terrible decision since that game is back-to-block. It makes going from a blocking state to the motion super awkward. Yeah, they have an alternate control mode, but it never felt right.

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Killer Instinct uses B-F inputs with no charge and back to block and it works fine. Sabrewulf is one of the best characters for beginners.

I've barely played Injustice though...maybe it's weird in that game?

 

[2shd]

Killer Instinct uses B-F inputs with no charge and it works fine. Sabrewulf is one of the best characters for beginners.

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I think a character or two as an exception is one thing, and with Sabrewulf in particular being rushdown heavy having that's ok. In Injustice the vast majority of the cast have them and NRS games arguably aren't as smooth feeling and it adds to it.

 

[Platy]

One more vote for "i blame the controller"
in the sense that it is MUCH harder to make motion inputs in a traditional dpad than it is to make on an arcade stick

And i know Core A Gaming knows this because all his examples (even the dog one, even most of the ones in this thread) are on arcade sticks.
Or FGC fans are so crazy that they forgot 103% of the people complaing about fighting game acessibility will not get an arcade stick any time soon.

hell, even Capcom sometimes shows they understand that 4 normals buttons are better than 6 because of how the controllers EVERYONE HAS works.

And since this is a fighting game thread I made a tier list for which type of inputs each get has. GranBlue is kind of in between the top and middle tiers. This is not a commentary on which I think is better.

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It is even more hilarious to ignore smash in this thread than the average fighting game thread.

 

[Just Great]

One more vote for "i blame the controller"
in the sense that it is MUCH harder to make motion inputs in a traditional dpad than it is to make on an arcade stick

And i know Core A Gaming knows this because all his examples (even the dog one, even most of the ones in this thread) are on arcade sticks.
Or FGC fans are so crazy that they forgot 103% of the people complaing about fighting game acessibility will not get an arcade stick any time soon.

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The idea that Dpad is inferior to arcade stick for any kind of motion input (except Deltas) is rather outdated. Dpad can handle 99% of motion inputs as well as a stick and has some non-motion input benefits in certain games. Pad has been argued to be a superior input device for Tekken movement and you can input f,f/b,b motion faster with a Dpad, which won't telegraph your dashes in SF as much.

Arcade stick is still a superior input device for ergonomic reasons, though.

 

[Platy]

Another thing that the video doesn't even mention is that it is MUCH easier to remember simple motions.
Which leads to casual players having more fun with the entire roster instead of choosing a cool character and being like "wait i have to pause to know what this dude does... after that do you want to pause to see what your character does too?" which is a pain in the ass and cuts all the fun when you have a group of people

The idea that Dpad is inferior to arcade stick for any kind of motion input (except Deltas) is rather outdated. Dpad can handle 99% of motion inputs as well as a stick and has some non-motion input benefits in certain games. For the longest time dpad was considered a superior input device for Tekken movement and you can input f,f/b,b motion faster with a Dpad, telegraphing dashes less.

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most consoles come with shitty dpads =P
Even my hadoukens come out much less frequently in a controller than an arcade stick, let alone more complex stuff like shoryukens

Any 180 or 360 is basically asking for a blister ... but those at least can be done slightly better with the analog stick

Arcade stick is still a superior input device for ergonomic reasons, though.

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which counts a lot for repeat trainings ... like if you want to become a member of the niche competitive space xD

 

[Jaded Alyx]

One more vote for "i blame the controller"
in the sense that it is MUCH harder to make motion inputs in a traditional dpad than it is to make on an arcade stick

And i know Core A Gaming knows this because all his examples (even the dog one, even most of the ones in this thread) are on arcade sticks.
Or FGC fans are so crazy that they forgot 103% of the people complaing about fighting game acessibility will not get an arcade stick any time soon.

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Millions of people around the world, learned these motions for the first time, on a dpad.

As kids.

 

[Platy]

Millions of people around the world, learned these motions for the first time, on a dpad.

As kids.

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and millions of those people still can't do a hadouken 100% of the time, on a dpad

hell, millions of those people still can't do a shoryuken 50% of the time, on a dpad =P

 

[skillzilla81]

I haven't played on a pad since I could afford an arcade stick, but I learned on SNES just like tons of other people, and I can throw a fireball and do an uppercut 100% of the time on a DS4 or XB1 pad.

Just like I could after learning when I was 10 years old playing SF2 on a pad.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

and millions of those people still can't do a hadouken 100% of the time, on a dpad

hell, millions of those people still can't do a shoryuken 50% of the time, on a dpad =P

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If you can do a hadouken, you can do a shoryuken. Which comes back to my point I made somewhere earlier that a lot of the time, it's not that people can't do the moves, they simply don't understand how to do them.

 

[MrNewVegas]

The DS4 is one of the best fight game dpads out there. Super easy for motion.

 

[Just Great]

Another thing that the video doesn't even mention is that it is MUCH easier to remember simple motions.
Which leads to casual players having more fun with the entire roster instead of choosing a cool character and being like "wait i have to pause to know what this dude does... after that do you want to pause to see what your character does too?" which is a pain in the ass and cuts all the fun when you have a group of people



most consoles come with shitty dpads =P
Even my hadoukens come out much less frequently in a controller than an arcade stick, let alone more complex stuff like shoryukens

Any 180 or 360 is basically asking for a blister ... but those at least can be done slightly better with the analog stick



which counts a lot for repeat trainings ... like if you want to become a member of the niche competitive space xD

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A significant portion of the competitive community plays on pad. Several champions over the past 10 years were playing on pad. It's simply not a hurdle if someone wants to be good at fighting games. I think every SF Evo and Capcom Cup champion over the past decade that wasn't from an Asian country played on pad, but I haven't double checked that.

 

[SapientWolf]

I have a harder time with Smash style moves, since I constantly input the wrong move at the worst possible time. With the motion inputs you might get the opposite problem instead but I can live with that.

 

[QisTopTier]

and millions of those people still can't do a hadouken 100% of the time, on a dpad

hell, millions of those people still can't do a shoryuken 50% of the time, on a dpad =P

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it's easy most new players overthink it

 

[VariantX]

If you can do a hadouken, you can do a shoryuken. Which comes back to my point I made somewhere earlier that a lot of the time, it's not that people can't do the moves, they simply don't understand how to do them.

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Alot of the notation back then didn't state that it was a sliding motion. The reason I can do it at all now because I accidentally did it the right way and I happened to be paying attention at the moment.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

Alot of the notation back then didn't state that it was a sliding motion. The reason I can do it at all now because I accidentally did it the right way and I happened to be paying attention at the moment.

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I dunno about that. I'd argue that's more the case nowadays, or rather, it's more vague nowadays since it's expected that people know.

For instance, the SNES SFII manual says:

https://www.gamesdatabase.org/Media/SYSTEM/Nintendo_SNES/manual/Formated/Street_Fighter_II-_The_World_Warrior_-_1992_-_Capcom_Co.,_Ltd..pdf

I think the only way you mess that up is if you do it too slowly.

 

[Deleted member 442]

and millions of those people still can't do a hadouken 100% of the time, on a dpad

hell, millions of those people still can't do a shoryuken 50% of the time, on a dpad =P

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Shh..

Gonna let you in on a little secret...

Come closer...

The real difficult thing about fighting games isn't even the inputs. It's about knowing what to do, when to do it, how to react to your opponent, how to see flaws in their playstyle and how you adapt yours in response. If someone finds doing a fireball is tough then they're going to find the rest of it is pretty much impossible. Inputs are easy by comparison. You can learn that stuff in a few hours.

 

[Astral]

I agree that some dpads are really bad, like Xbox. I've only ever played fighting games on PlayStation though and never had a problem with the dpad. I play on an arcade stick now and the difficulty remains basically the same.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

I'd argue that for things like movement (dashing, jumping, instant air dashing, etc.), a dpad is superior to a stick and it's not even close.

But people just want to focus on motion inputs

Spoiler

because let's face it, a whole bunch of people seem to think that being able to perform special moves IS fighting games, and things like spacing, movement, and normals are a non-factor

 

[Professor Beef]

and millions of those people still can't do a hadouken 100% of the time, on a dpad

hell, millions of those people still can't do a shoryuken 50% of the time, on a dpad =P

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because they don't want to practice

 

[DanteMenethil]

I think the only motion I actually prefer on stick than pad is 720 and Guile/Vega super

 

[Gutsfree]

I taught my 11 year old nephew to do a fireball in 5 minutes. He's never played fighting games till he stared messing around with Street Fighter at my house and he barely plays video games at home. Its not hard. It doesn't require days of training ground. Just try it for a couple minutes and I feel like you will get it quickly.

 

[Astral]

I'd argue that for things like movement (dashing, jumping, instant air dashing, etc.), a dpad is superior to a stick and it's not even close.

But people just want to focus on motion inputs

Spoiler

because let's face it, a whole bunch of people seem to think that being able to perform special moves IS fighting games, and things like spacing, movement, and normals are a non-factor

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I've had the same experience with stick. Simple movements felt way more awkward than on pad.

 

[Spinosaurus]

I've played a lot of Ryu on Smash 3DS with the circle pad without any issues lol.

Arcade stick are cool, but mainly because they're satisfying to use. In my experience when I got into the genre, I had the same mentality that maybe my issue is that I'm using pad, so I got an arcade stick, but found it to be harder if anything. I stuck with it but eventually moved to pad when the current gen was new, and it was a super smooth transition. Heck if anything having both dpad and analog stick is pretty fantastic, I think a lot of pros that play on pad utilize both.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

and millions of those people still can't do a hadouken 100% of the time, on a dpad

hell, millions of those people still can't do a shoryuken 50% of the time, on a dpad =P

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Source for this info?

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

I suspect people actually can do the hadouken motion, but because of the delay netcode it eats their input so they end up confused/frustrated as to why it's not working.

 

[Alek]

The video doesn't really justify the motion inputs though. It just explains the balance implications of the charge moves. If you had one or two specials you could still have charge moves by just allowing them to be activated, only after holding back.

Isn't this how it works in GBFV? You have to hold back to use a charge move, but there's no special input required if you're using the simplified inputs.

Really, I think it's just the case that people have gotten used to the way it is. It's okay to say that, it's okay to design with that design legacy in mind because it's how people in this audience expect the game to play. Plus, that mechanical barrier isn't meaningless. It means that if you practice the game even a little bit, you'll be vastly better than you were a few hours ago. Just learning the moves and how to execute them means you can beat someone who hasn't played before, there's value in that very obvious skill acquisition that comes with an albeit small mechanical barrier.

I'm glad that fighters are experimenting with alternative inputs though. I like GBFV, but I wish it didn't punish you for using simplified inputs. I feel that it defeats the purpose.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

I'm glad that fighters are experimenting with alternative inputs though. I like GBFV, but I wish it didn't punish you for using simplified inputs. I feel that it defeats the purpose.

Click to shrink...

You're not getting punished for using simplified inputs, you're being rewarded for learning and executing the standard inputs. I seriously doubt anyone who plays casually cares about that little bit of extra cooldown on moves. The simple inputs in that games case let newer players get used to the games mechanics upfront.

 

[Just Great]

The video doesn't really justify the motion inputs though. It just explains the balance implications of the charge moves. If you had one or two specials you could still have charge moves by just allowing them to be activated, only after holding back.

Isn't this how it works in GBFV? You have to hold back to use a charge move, but there's no special input required if you're using the simplified inputs.

Really, I think it's just the case that people have gotten used to the way it is. It's okay to say that, it's okay to design with that design legacy in mind because it's how people in this audience expect the game to play. Plus, that mechanical barrier isn't meaningless. It means that if you practice the game even a little bit, you'll be vastly better than you were a few hours ago. Just learning the moves and how to execute them means you can beat someone who hasn't played before, there's value in that very obvious skill acquisition that comes with an albeit small mechanical barrier.

I'm glad that fighters are experimenting with alternative inputs though. I like GBFV, but I wish it didn't punish you for using simplified inputs. I feel that it defeats the purpose.

Click to shrink...

Balance implications are justification enough.

 

[Neoxon]

The video doesn't really justify the motion inputs though. It just explains the balance implications of the charge moves. If you had one or two specials you could still have charge moves by just allowing them to be activated, only after holding back.

Isn't this how it works in GBFV? You have to hold back to use a charge move, but there's no special input required if you're using the simplified inputs.

Really, I think it's just the case that people have gotten used to the way it is. It's okay to say that, it's okay to design with that design legacy in mind because it's how people in this audience expect the game to play. Plus, that mechanical barrier isn't meaningless. It means that if you practice the game even a little bit, you'll be vastly better than you were a few hours ago. Just learning the moves and how to execute them means you can beat someone who hasn't played before, there's value in that very obvious skill acquisition that comes with an albeit small mechanical barrier.

I'm glad that fighters are experimenting with alternative inputs though. I like GBFV, but I wish it didn't punish you for using simplified inputs. I feel that it defeats the purpose.

Click to shrink...

I mean, there has to be some kind of trade-off for doing the simple input. Otherwise you'll have a SSFIV3D Guile situation.