Control's Weapon and Personal Mod System was unnecessary

[gitrektali]

I really liked Control, and for the most part, I think it's one of Remedy's best titles for its atmosphere and world-building alone. However, the weapon and personal mod system really took me out of the gameplay, and its randomness made me completely ignore it for most of the game.

You're littered with so many mods after every battle, each having a really small difference in effect, and it felt like an annoyance, rather than a system I'd enjoy spending time in. I think the game would've benefited from having basic weapon upgrades, rather than having you go through each mod, and comparing it with your current one and seeing how it only increased the damage by 2% or boosted your health by 3%. None of these mods, in my experience, really made the game more interesting in any way, and just randomly boosted stats.

I think this works in RPGs, but I do believe it hurt the flow of gameplay in this third-person action game.

Really good game though.

 

[Papercuts]

Yup, it's a bummer when you add inventory management on top of it, along with the environment being littered with chests full of mostly junk. It would have felt much better to find less things but make them more impactful like health upgrades or something instead of having a weird leveling system.

There's a few weird half-steps in Control that never felt right, I'd add the Bureau Alert missions onto that as well...random "go here and kill ____" things popping up feel like something out of Destiny or something, not what is a pretty normal SP experience.

 

[UnluckyKate]

I'm only a couple hours in, and I agree.

Also, the interface for menuing is... confusing at best, illogical at worst

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

God of War syndrome

 

[gitrektali]

Yup, it's a bummer when you add inventory management on top of it, along with the environment being littered with chests full of mostly junk. It would have felt much better to find less things but make them more impactful like health upgrades or something instead of having a weird leveling system.

There's a few weird half-steps in Control that never felt right, I'd add the Bureau Alert missions onto that as well...random "go here and kill ____" things popping up feel like something out of Destiny or something, not what is a pretty normal SP experience.

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I stopped caring about those Bureau Alert missions completely. You'd be in a really interesting area, exploring and whatnot, and randomly you're assigned a timed mission that completely breaks the flow.

 

[kami_sama]

On the one hand I agree that the differences between mods of the same type is too little, but at the same time, they make different gameplay styles possible.
Using pierce on cover is much different that going in with the shield, and I think they make it easier to specialize.

 

[MonadL]

Same here. Wish they just went full metroidvania and had permanent health and energy upgrades as well as ability/weapon upgrades instead of the mod system. As it is it felt like I spent way too much time in the menus. Great game otherwise though.

 

[Fliesen]

Yup, it's not deep enough to add some actual variety in gameplay - like, even if you go all in with certain mods, it doesn't change the way you play the game.

Meanwhile it adds some super annoying inventory management.

- eventually, you just "shard" every mod that isn't of the highest tier and you don't even look or care what they do.

 

[JahIthBer]

I think a lot of devs are scared of their games being seen as bare bones, so they have to add in extra, that might be unnecessary.

 

[Khanimus]

Needing to clear out old mods was a pain. I didn't mind altering my loadout for certain situations, but it was more often than not just busywork. Not to mention there was a Level 5 mod I got that, I didn't even notice at first, but added a 0% bonus. Guess it was a glitch or whatever. The tier below gave me a 50%+ bonus to something, but if I hadn't noticed the actual number and was clearing stuff out based on rank, it might have screwed me.

 

[Deleted member 17643]

God of War syndrome

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I agree with this. GoW didn't need the gear system (or half the abilities). They're still both great games though.

 

[cowbanana]

It's a really bad, unnecessary system that drags the game down. It's almost as bad as the lame fetch quest style missions and the story going nowhere in the end. 6/10 game. I think Quantum Break is a better game in every way. Sure Control has lots of cool little details in the videos and documents, but they don't make a good game alone.

 

[Cocolina]

I can't believe you don't like spending time looking over a random unsorted table of symbols to delete, you sound pretty anti-fun tbh

 

[BrassDragon]

I think it's a problem of execution rather than concept. Buried between the +X damage crap are genuinely interesting mods that affect the way you approach gameplay situations. But the bland interface, the cumbersome process of shifting through icons and the lack of visual feedback means it's just a chore that the game can do without.

Gathering and experimenting with weird powers through upgrades fits the game thematically and mechanically but for all of Control's glorious highpoints, the current system is a disappointment.

 

[NIN90]

Tacked on loot systems are a scourge in the current AAA landscape. Felt the same thing with AC:O last year.
When your players are annoyed by constantly reappearing flashing exclamation marks on your inventory screen, because they are already dreading the tedium of engaging with it for the 100th time, then you are probably doing something wrong.

 

[GymWolf86]

Not for me, i like to personalize my build and choose what weapon i want to upgrade.

 

[Odeko]

It's a really bad, unnecessary system that drags the game down. It's almost as bad as the lame fetch quest style missions and the story going nowhere in the end. 6/10 game. I think Quantum Break is a better game in every way. Sure Control has lots of cool little details in the videos and documents, but they don't make a good game alone.

Click to shrink...

I've been slowly going through it, and man am I excited every time I get to wander around and read documents and so bored and disengaged the second any combat hits.

 

[modiz]

so basically every modern western AAA game.
i just go along with these and move on, its not like it ruins the games in any way.

 

[PepperedHam]

The UI for dealing with dupes and unwanted mods was cumbersome and really could have used a few more iterations but I kinda liked turning each weapon into its own little killing machine with them. On the Grip I stacked three headshot damage multiplier mods and the gun was one one to two shotting all but elite type enemies, it was really satisfying.

 

[Dr Pears]

I agree

 

[giapel]

Reminds me a bit of Astral Chain abilities. Far too many and hard to decipher what to use where.
However, in most games I tend not to spend to much time optimising builds. Just pick something and play on.

 

[gitrektali]

so basically every modern AAA game.
i just go along with these and move on, its not like it ruins the games in any way.

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It ruined the flow of gameplay for me, and I felt that if I didn't check out the mods, I was missing out on stuff the game offered. I didn't enjoy going through the menus, when this game is clearly a narrative driven experience. If this was an RPG, I would've been fine.

 

[SJRB]

Agreed!

If I had to name one downside to the game, that would be it. Constantly micro-managing mods for trivial upgrades takes away from the experience.

 

[ThreepQuest64]

I didn't care most of the time and usually only adjust mods for boss fights. No gameplay flow ruined for me because I simply didn't bother.

 

[modiz]

It ruined the flow of gameplay for me, and I felt that if I didn't check out the mods, I was missing out on stuff the game offered. I didn't enjoy going through the menus, when this game is clearly a narrative driven experience. If this was an RPG, I would've been fine.

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i didnt play control yet, i was talking more generally about how i approach this in games, But you just need to accept that these RPG elements are going to be tacked on almost every game at this point. its not going to change and its going to get even worse.

 

[DrScissorsMD]

I don't think they were inherently bad, insomuch as the sheer amount of them you got added somewhat annoying inventory management to the game. If they'd only had, say, between 3-5 "levels" of each mod that you regularly upgraded after doing certain objectives, or doing certain quests/sidequests, maybe even kill certain bosses. I reckon that would've fit better. There isn't much point adding randomized gear or loot to a game like Control where it's a metroidvania but not at all in a grindy sense.

 

[matrix-cat]

Yep, had this same thought as I was playing through the game. My mod inventory was constantly full, forcing me to go and clean it out multiple times over the course of my playthrough, and it just wasn't worth all the busywork. At the end of the day it's just slight, marginal upgrades to damage or health or whatever.

I feel like if you absolutely must have an upgrade system in a game like this, you have to keep it to a small number of really meaningful upgrades that are actually going to change the way you play. Something like Doom 2016, where you could choose one of two different upgrades to each gun, and that was that. In an eight-ish hour linear action game I don't want to be bogged down in menus weighing up whether to go with a 7% damage buff or a 13% upgrade to the speed at which my power bar recharges.

 

[Glio]

Many games today add RPGlite elements that do not add anything to the experience

 

[Madjoki]

Yeah, very very silly decission, just like limiting you to two weapons only. Why not make them skills instead and let freely switch between weapons? This is non-sense.

 

[Cenauru]

It honestly didn't detract anything to me. I slotted in less energy cost on Launch and higher energy pools, and several mods that made some of the service weapon modes feel even better, like the extra projectiles on Scatter and less spread

 

[FelipeMGM]

I agree that is kinda unnecessary, very much like the loot system in God of War or most of these three-way skill trees in almost every game these days

But I dont feel like they necessarily hurt the games for the most part. In dozen's of hours of these experiences your are probably spending minutes in the menus doing stuff like that. In Control that was my experience anyway, I barely cared for those and I didnt feel the need in any way to keep checking often

 

[gitrektali]

I agree that is kinda unnecessary, very much like the loot system in God of War or most of these three-way skill trees in almost every game these days

But I dont feel like they necessarily hurt the games for the most part. In dozen's of hours of these experiences your are probably spending minutes in the menus doing stuff like that. In Control that was my experience anyway, I barely cared for those and I didnt feel the need in any way to keep checking often

Click to shrink...

Yeah, once I stopped caring about this system entirely, I had way more fun with the game.

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Agreed. Not a fan of those and the Bureau alerts. Stellar game otherwise though.

 

[Kyuuji]

I like it in the end-game, think it's unnecessary for the story. Could have tweaked it for the story to be balanced around a base set and then upon completion, as the Director, you're able to bump up the numbers a bit going into the new content.

Didn't diminish my enjoyment though. Spent 60% of the game using Grip and a Level 1 headshot mod.

 

[RockmanBN]

I agree that is kinda unnecessary, very much like the loot system in God of War or most of these three-way skill trees in almost every game these days

But I dont feel like they necessarily hurt the games for the most part. In dozen's of hours of these experiences your are probably spending minutes in the menus doing stuff like that. In Control that was my experience anyway, I barely cared for those and I didnt feel the need in any way to keep checking often

Click to shrink...

It doesn't hurt the experience to the point where I'd stop playing, but I sure as hell won't come back.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I agree that is kinda unnecessary, very much like the loot system in God of War or most of these three-way skill trees in almost every game these days

But I dont feel like they necessarily hurt the games for the most part. In dozen's of hours of these experiences your are probably spending minutes in the menus doing stuff like that. In Control that was my experience anyway, I barely cared for those and I didnt feel the need in any way to keep checking often

Click to shrink...

It doesn't hurt the experience to the point where I'd stop playing, but I sure as hell won't come back.

Click to shrink...

Basically this. I can still enjoy a game with these things, but more often than not they'll sap my interest in a future replay.
It's always kind of sucky to play a game and go "Wow, this was added just to up engagement" because so many people apparently need that carrot.

 

[Sabretooth]

You will take my Seize personal mods from my cold dead hands!

 

[Bold One]

Currently playing Dishonoured 2, there is too much shit to manage.

 

[mcwizardry]

I agree, especially crafting them was superfluous because it was random and you're showered with mods most of the time anyway.

 

[FelipeMGM]

Yeah, once I stopped caring about this system entirely, I had way more fun with the game.

Click to shrink...

I barely changed guns as well, I went Grip with some basic damage mods for like 80% of the game

Still, it isnt a factor that would make me detract points from my experience

Basically this. I can still enjoy a game with these things, but more often than not they'll sap my interest in a future replay.
It's always kind of sucky to play a game and go "Wow, this was added just to up engagement" because so many people apparently need that carrot.

Click to shrink...

yeah, and this is likely a bigger issue for developers than for us. Of course I'm not going to speak on behalf of anyone here, but it feels from an outside perspective that they are putting hard work on making and balancing these systems pretty much because these are videogamey things a portion of the market expects I guess

there are games that have these elements in much smaller ways that feel more objective and meaningful. Gears 5 has ultimate abilities upgrades, and you get those for tackling side missions and exploring the enviroments. They really change the nature of these abilities and come through enjoyable and straightforward game content. I feel like Horizon with it's limited numbers of armor sets, that are very clear and objective with it's perks (one is better for stealth, one reduces fire damage, one has a shielding ability, etc) handles that aspect much better then God of War for example (though HZD also has an absurd amount of these mods)

this is definitley something that became a ''rule'' this gen, so maybe with the market moving forward to new systems, they can leave this behind

 

[FlintSpace]

It wasn't that bad, but they should have lowered the drop rate by a lot.

And I disagree it didn't affect the gameplay. Maybe not gun mods but personal mods were necessary to be experimented with in some boss battles. Like prioritizing total health against health pickup.

 

[FelipeMGM]

It doesn't hurt the experience to the point where I'd stop playing, but I sure as hell won't come back.

Click to shrink...

that's fair. I'm not so heavy on replaying stuff so I can't really be bothered in that way as well, but I get why people wouldnt want to go through cluttered systems again

 

[gitrektali]

Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with upgrade systems as a whole, I just wish it was more streamlined and upfront about it. Like in Prey you could get weapon upgrade kits, that you can then use to upgrade specific parts of your weapons, instead of getting random upgrade parts for the weapons themselves.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

This and crafting system drags the whole game down. Crafting the new guns with the same dozen weirdly named materials as upgrading your current ones. Along with limited weapon slots didn't make me want to experiment with new gun variants. Additionally it made exploration less rewarding as it always some chest filled with a crafting mat or another of a billion mods.

 

[Bioshocker]

I agree. It didn't do anything for me and I found myself not quite understanding it either.

 

[StrappingYoungLance]

I mean, it didn't bother me in the slightest but yeah it's a completely unnecessary inclusion.

 

[Hyun Sai]

It can't be as bad as the astounding Division 2 mod management, right ?

 

[Mars People]

I honestly feel like Control didn't need to be a shooter full stop.
I enjoyed the lore, the setting and all the world building way more than the combat.

If you had just been exploring, solving puzzles, maybe avoiding enemies, I think I might of preferred it.

I'm sure I'm in the minority though so don't jump on me.

 

[Galava]

As much as I liked the weapon/player mod system, it really was unnecessary. I think it would've been better if by doing sidequests and bosses you got more HP/dmg/... Zelda style. The game already has a Zelda-like progression system, where you get new powers that allow you to get to new areas or do new things (see bow, bombs, boomerang from zelda)

 

[Maximo]

Yeah it was a waste, really a miss when the mods could have been unique or weird to fit the game more.