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CypherSignal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,064
8mMF5q6.png
By the way, the video actually mixes up comparisons like these at least a couple of times. The pic above is one of them, where ray-tracing is enabled, but the caption says it's disabled. I haven't gone through and double-checked everything, but 13:55 is another example.

Regarding the differences being small, I'd content that the video does a bit of a disservice in some ways by mostly focusing on a stable camera and world, or picking things where the comparison against no-raytracing doesn't completely fall apart (the shot of the hotline phone is, ironically, a fairly bland example to use throughout, imo, but w/e).

Cases like these below start to become slightly more interesting, because, the reflections in the TVs are always correct, and other methods wouldn't be able to hold up in the same way.

hFv9D7u.jpg


As well, there are a lot of other incidental details that static shots may not show very well, just because it's hard to eye-ball how much of the scene actually is reflecting the world. By and large it's not something that is a radical gamechanger, where you HAVE to spend the equivalent of this game's price fifteen times over because it's impossible to play it any other way...but it is a very nice addition.
 

btags

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,078
Gaithersburg MD
Not really. Jett is right. Ray Tracing right now is super expensive with potentially worse performance.

It's something we need but once it reaches mainstream level.
I feel like most new tech has worse performance than older tech as it is inherently more advanced. If you think the cost is worth it is a separate question entirely.
 

eso76

Prophet of Truth
Member
Dec 8, 2017
8,106
Hey I loved the video Alex! I can't wait for RT to come to consoles next gen.

Eh, i really don't know what kind of RT we can expect from next gen consoles.
It's so demanding (understandably) I believe it will be a very marginal implementation compared to the full thing we're seeing here.

Maybe something like this at 30fps and 1080p reconstructed to 4k is actually something next gen is capable of though
 

Smokey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,175
You can cover it all you want bro. It's a nice tech and it's gonna be used as a bullet point in every next gen battle comparison.

All I was saying it's not worth it now. I will let you boys and girls guinea pig for us poor non ray tracing kids.

It being worth it or not is subjective, and not a fact. For someone like me who is into cutting edge technology, what Control is doing is absolutely worth it. That's my opinion. What's not my opinion and what is fact is it is a genuine step up from the faked lighting we've been using so far. Dictator even pointed out that the rasterization that Remedy is using here is top tier, but even that doesn't come close to what ray tracing allows.
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
wow! great video. i loved playing this game on PC with RTX. couldn't turn it off, even for the performance gains
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,798
Regarding stutters:

I moved my install of the game from my HD to my M2, and that basically eliminated all stutters that occur while attacking enemies. It's weird, my friend brought up shader compilation issues too, but it felt like an io hitch (I guess it could be both, if the shader code is on disk instead of loaded into memory). Anyway, I have a Geforce 2080Ti and 32 gb of ram, so anyone experiencing hitches should really install this game on their SSD if they have one. It makes a *huge* difference.
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,930
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
By the way, the video actually mixes up comparisons like these at least a couple of times. The pic above is one of them, where ray-tracing is enabled, but the caption says it's disabled. I haven't gone through and double-checked everything, but 13:55 is another example.

Regarding the differences being small, I'd content that the video does a bit of a disservice in some ways by mostly focusing on a stable camera and world, or picking things where the comparison against no-raytracing doesn't completely fall apart (the shot of the hotline phone is, ironically, a fairly bland example to use throughout, imo, but w/e).

Cases like these below start to become slightly more interesting, because, the reflections in the TVs are always correct, and other methods wouldn't be able to hold up in the same way.

hFv9D7u.jpg


As well, there are a lot of other incidental details that static shots may not show very well, just because it's hard to eye-ball how much of the scene actually is reflecting the world. By and large it's not something that is a radical gamechanger, where you HAVE to spend the equivalent of this game's price fifteen times over because it's impossible to play it any other way...but it is a very nice addition.
Yeah with the 60 odd comp shots I had I messed up 2 - that one and the debris one.

I would love to have had more moving shots, but thta forgoed the whole head 2 head comp with rssterisation :(
 

Dwight

Member
Dec 4, 2018
102
I've played a decent amount of Control on my 1080Ti at 720p and more on my buddy's water-cooled 2080 at 4k with that DLSS tech.

The game looks bonkers good without Ray tracing, and using it in practice is like plopping an extra scoop of ice cream on top of an already fabulous sundae.

This is the only game that really justifies the last few years of ray tracing hype - in that respect it is a "killer app."

It won't move video cards for those that already have a powerful one. The cost is simply too prohibitive. I purchased a Red Dead PS4 Pro bundle because that game was a system seller - and it was worth playing a few hundred dollars for the experience of that game. If you want to run 4k properly with ray tracing - that's a far more significant investment.

I do believe that experiences like this will get more people into PC gaming.

Posters should keep in mind the effect of YouTube's compression on the perceived quality of gameplay plus the difference in motion when actually playing the game natively.

My overwhelming impression from playing Control with ray tracing was that I was experiencing the next generation of gaming.

The PS5 will have it's "God of War" level game - but it'll take a few years of refining...and probably a midcycle refresh. Ray tracing is in the market now.

This is tech that should be experienced firsthand - and local electronics shops should have stations with it set up for comparison. Hope AMD GPUs get it together, or Intel comes in strong - because it seems like Nvidia can set their price when games that look this badass are out...
 
Jan 21, 2019
2,902
It looks great but I have two gripes with it. First some of the rt effects are to noisy or artifacty. I don't know how I feel about visual tech in games that is just about there, but not yet really. This game will forever have these issues and I actually prefere lower fidelity but more refined clarity over something brand new that still has some kinks. Also I can't get over how soft and sometimes overly grainy the image looks. The telephone wire looks like the spray paint from paint (exageration) and I don't understand why they engine has this look. I thing it would stell rt better if the game was sharper and didn't look so blurry. If this is a artistic choice, I would love to hear the reasoning behind it.

So yeah, all in all great visuals and art and the rt is cool, but it still has some annoying flaws and the image quality is just weird.
 

BuBu Jenkins

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,063
The performance cost/ to visual improvements simply aren't worth the drastic drops rtx effects brings, especially since it takes a $1200 graphics card to even utilize it with good image quality at least 60fps no way in hell i'll settle for 30fps especially in a fast paced shooter like this. Not jumping in the rtx bandwagon until the 30xx cards come out
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
Great video, Alex! Loooved the effects just popping in with the impactful sound effect like new areas in Control, great editing. I won't be able to enjoy this game with ray tracing for a looong time, but I'm still really glad it supports it. It looks amazing.

Personally disagree with some of the optimized settings, though. At least as a mid-range PC owner. I'd rather play at a lower resolution than have the low coverage of Medium Global Reflections. And the performance difference is not very high at all.

SSR on Medium is very noticeable, but worth it for the performance boost if necessary, agreed.

I had no idea LOD was lower than Low on Xbox One X, though. Nvidia's guide didn't see a relevant performance difference in their testings, but this is exactly the kind of setting that will give you seemingly random framerate drops when looking at a certain direction while nothing else is happening.
 

Jakartalado

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,275
São Paulo, Brazil
Despite loving the game and Remedy games in general... their reconstruction technique for me is definitely the worst of all.

I would rather play at 720p without those ghosting artifacts from previous frames.

They are forgetting the key element from a video game. It's dynamic. It's unlikely to be pre calculated outside of cutcenes, and borderline insane to expect that the player would keep the camera still for the last 4 frames to have a clean picture on such a fast paced third person shooter.

I would love a native resolution with a god awful FXAA instead of this reconstruction technique.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
Despite loving the game and Remedy games in general... their reconstruction technique for me is definitely the worst of all.

I would rather play at 720p without those ghosting artifacts from previous frames.

They are forgetting the key element from a video game. It's dynamic. It's unlikely to be pre calculated outside of cutcenes, and borderline insane to expect that the player would keep the camera still for the last 4 frames to have a clean picture on such a fast paced third person shooter.

I would love a native resolution with a god awful FXAA instead of this reconstruction technique.
Can't you have that by also lowering display resolution, instead of only the rendering resolution? I didn't test it myself, so apologies if you already did and it doesn't work.
 

Jakartalado

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,275
São Paulo, Brazil
Can't you have that by also lowering display resolution, instead of only the rendering resolution? I didn't test it myself, so apologies if you already did and it doesn't work.

I'm saying that in general since I'm playing on a PS4 Pro. But I recall Quantum Break having the option to turn off the reconstruction on the PC (by slaying your performance if I recall correctly).
 

Galava

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,080
DLSS with the sharpening filter from Freestyle makes the game looks and perform really really nice...
 

Galava

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,080
The performance cost/ to visual improvements simply aren't worth the drastic drops rtx effects brings, especially since it takes a $1200 graphics card to even utilize it with good image quality at least 60fps no way in hell i'll settle for 30fps especially in a fast paced shooter like this. Not jumping in the rtx bandwagon until the 30xx cards come out
RTX2060. 1080p DLSS, RTX on max and get steady >60fps. You don't need a beast of a card to enjoy RTX at 60fps right now. And the IQ is better/comparable to all the other games that use that shitty FXAA/TAA that makes the game blurrier than DLSS.
 

Shocchiz

Member
Nov 7, 2017
577
Amazing video, really really well done.
And obviously an incredible technical achievement, Remedy should be praised.
 

Deleted member 55421

User requested account closure
Banned
Mar 29, 2019
612
I appreciate all the work they put into their videos, but it's gotten to a point at least for me that it's just too much information. I wish they would kind of make some dumb down videos showing the graphics. I just want the videos to get to the point. The older ones used to do that but now it's feels like they've expanded too much.
 

Smokey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,175
RTX2060. 1080p DLSS, RTX on max and get steady >60fps. You don't need a beast of a card to enjoy RTX at 60fps right now. And the IQ is better/comparable to all the other games that use that shitty FXAA/TAA that makes the game blurrier than DLSS.

That doesn't fit the agenda most have in these threads of ray tracing being something only for the 1% tho. The $1,200 GPU fits it much better.
 

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
Ok. I need to say it and I give my humble apologies in advance but why every single time I'm reading a DF titles or comment about the X version I perceive a "subtle" promo of the Xbox hardware? I mean, I remind when PS4 'was the top of line' or whatever it was, I never perceived all that ... "enthusiasm" or bolded statement about the better multiplat. And it was offered at the cheaper price, a major reason to notice it, I guess. Is it that bad to take away stuff like this out of a tech analysis? Or maybe I need to give up and stop to follow such site? Because I'm interested to watch such content but it pissed me off the tone of some sentences.
 
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Shocchiz

Member
Nov 7, 2017
577
I appreciate all the work they put into their videos, but it's gotten to a point at least for me that it's just too much information. I wish they would kind of make some dumb down videos showing the graphics. I just want the videos to get to the point. The older ones used to do that but now it's feels like they've expanded too much.
I posted this in the RTX thread, I believe this gif gets to the point really well.

 

Smokey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,175
Ok. I need to say it and I give my humble apologies in advance but why every single time I'm reading a DF titles or comment about the X version I perceive a "subtle" promo of the Xbox hardware? I mean, I remind when PS4 'was the top of line' or whatever it was, I never perceived all that ... "enthusiasm" or bolded statement about the better multiplat. And it was offered at the cheaper price, a major reason to notice it, I guess. Is it that bad to take away stuff like this out of a tech analysis? Or maybe I need to give up and stop to follow such site?

Because it's a different time and these are premium updates for their respective brands, and the one x is the most premium offering. The most premium console gets compared to the PC for context. Pretty simple.

Does that bother you for some odd reason? There's a separate video for both consoles.
 

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
Because it's a different time and these are premium updates for their respective brands, and the one x is the most premium offering. The most premium console gets compared to the PC for context. Pretty simple.

Does that bother you for some odd reason? There's a separate video for both consoles.
I'm not referred to the article content.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,665
The Milky Way
totally agree. df tries to sell it as amazing, but the hair is bad, animation bad, and everything just looks low res with poor iq. that's remedy. too be fair, they are not the highest budget studio by far.

the side by side, rt does look much better. but just viewed by itself, it's not that impressive vs other games.

scary how low the one x settings are, and that's by far the best console version! i guess it's time for a new gen.
Yeah I think the RT reflections are very impressive but other than that I'm not too impressed by the visuals. It does look a little washed out, plenty of unwanted artefacts, awful shadows even on max. Quantum Break looks better in many ways, particularly the character models, animation and facial detail. There are far, far more impressive looking games on PC, even if they don't have the RT features. I thought it was just me that wasn't too impressed, and I'm playing on a 2080Ti.
 

aerobinson

Alt Account
Banned
Jun 6, 2019
157
Looks cool but not enough that I'm dropping high dime on a system capable of running it at a good frame rate. A great proof of concept, if nothing else. :)
 

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
I guess I don't understand the issue? The one x is the most powerful console, the 2080ti the most powerful gpu, DF is a tech site....?
No offence, but it's quite clear what I mean. It's just a personal consideration about their attitude toward to a specific "brand". I always hope such thing would ended a day because I like their work but I can't avoid to notice this annoying endless circle.
 

Smokey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,175
No offence, but it's quite clear what I mean. It's just a personal consideration about their attitude toward to a specific "brand". I always hope such thing would ended a day because I like their work but I can't avoid to notice this annoying endless stuff.

Feels like you're dancing .You should come out and say you think they're biased against Sony if that's how you feel. It's silly, but hey. MS got killed plenty for putting out a console at the time that was running 900p games. Times have changed. And plus this is a PC centric video and i stated above why they would bring the most premium console up in this context.
 

Braag

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,908
Can't wait for RT to become the norm. The difference is really massive in some scenes.
 

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
Feels like you're dancing .You should come out and say you think they're biased against Sony if that's how you feel. It's silly, but hey. MS got killed plenty for putting out a console at the time that was running 900p games. Times have changed. And plus this is a PC centric video and i stated above why they would bring the most premium console up in this context.
Oh come on. Don't say such stupidity. And don't put this thing in a console war. I used Sony because it's the only competitor. It's not like I have other choice outside that anyway eh.
 

Askherserenity

Prophet of Truth - Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,044
No offence, but it's quite clear what I mean. It's just a personal consideration about their attitude toward to a specific "brand". I always hope such thing would ended a day because I like their work but I can't avoid to notice this annoying endless circle.

lol How is it their fault the One X is the most powerful console.

The fuck do you want them to do. Lie to you and tell you it runs fantastic on the PS4?
 

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
lol How is it their fault the One X is the most powerful console.

The fuck do you want them to do. Lie to you and tell you it runs fantastic on the PS4?
Uh. Where I have said that? I need to put a list about the title or comment when the PS4 was the top of the line and what we see now? Just to put the things in perspective?
 

gabdeg

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,956
🐝
Man, accusations of shilling and weird "They say the Xbox version is better a little too often for my liking". I feel like DF threads are regressing again.
 

Askherserenity

Prophet of Truth - Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,044
Uh. Where I have said that? I need to put a list about the title or comment when the PS4 was the top of the line and what we see now? Just to put the things in perspective?

You haven't said it because you're scared of saying but...you're pretty much saying it lol

Don't ruin these great DF threads with stuff like this.
 

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
You haven't said it because you're scared of saying but...you're pretty much saying it lol

Don't ruin these great DF threads with stuff like this.
You put in my mouth your personal interpretation about my words and I should even shut up because I ruin the thread. Forgive me, but I can't avoid to say my opinion. If you don't like my post, ignore me. But it's what I think.
 
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Seganomics

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,495
Ok. I need to say it and I give my humble apologies in advance but why every single time I'm reading a DF titles or comment about the X version I perceive a "subtle" promo of the Xbox hardware? I mean, I remind when PS4 'was the top of line' or whatever it was, I never perceived all that ... "enthusiasm" or bolded statement about the better multiplat. And it was offered at the cheaper price, a major reason to notice it, I guess. Is it that bad to take away stuff like this out of a tech analysis? Or maybe I need to give up and stop to follow such site? Because I'm interested to watch such content but it pissed me off the tone of some sentences.

The Pro never lived up to its billing as a 4K machine, which is what it was sold as. Watch the reveal.
The X delivers 4K, or close to it, for the majority of titles. The Pro never gets close. If you are going to promise customers 4K as you're target for a mid gen refresh, then deliver. Pro in that regard is a disappointment compared to the X. Simple.
 

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
The Pro never lived up to its billing as a 4K machine, which is what it was sold as. Watch the reveal.
The X delivers 4K, or close to it, for the majority of titles. The Pro never gets close. If you are going to promise customers 4K as you're target for a mid gen refresh, then deliver. Pro in that regard is a disappointment compared to the X. Simple.
Maybe there is a reason because I put you in ignore list? Please can you stop it to quote or read my post? I beg you.
 
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shodgson8

Member
Aug 22, 2018
4,232
The ray tracing in the game is just incredible...I like how this video shows the lighting detail on some of the smaller objects as it is something I have really noticed as well.

Honestly think it is the best looking game I have played once all the graphical features are turned on.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,348
If anything this video shows how unfeasible RTX still is, considering how small the scale of the gameworld in Control is.
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
I like the Ray Tracing off look as well.

I was thinking that I liked the tricks games like The Crew 2 does, with lighting bouncing off things even without ray tracing, amazing performance, and it makes the game looks so good (so many light sources especially if you get a loot explosion from a live reward box or after a race. Loot light up like lanterns). I can wait on real ray tracing to be less of a hit and more prominent in most games, while games continue to do things like that.