I'm going to go ahead and say that we should absolutely not do that. That is a gross overstep of what we are allowed to do as consumers of their content. We have no business deciding who people should be friends with or the nature of their relationship.
hmm, you changed my mind on this/reminded me that I secretly agree. I most definitely dropped Markilplier, who seems to be a pretty inoffensive guy, because his very vocal PDP stanning was too much for me
Natalie had someone on in a video where they only provide voice for reading a quote and don't state any of their bad exclusionary views. The person has been known for trans advocacy. Natalie has previous videos where she argues against the bad exclusionary views that happened to be expressed by this person.
Buck Angel is not known for trans advocacy. Buck Angel is known for being a porn star who outed Lana Wachowski and is hateful towards nonbinary people (and anyone who isn't trans in the exact same way he is).
Buck breathes through shitty opinions that's why he has to have them.
Contrapoints: says a bunch of shitty things about NB people and has a bigot in her video
Natalie has always come across to me as putting artistry first. So it's not shocking, just reinforces the criticism that she doesn't engage with the people she claims she wants to help as well as she should be.
That sounds awful. Are we seriously going to start holding Lindsey Ellis accountable for being friends with somebody who put somebody else with troubling views in a video? It's one thing to hold Contra responsible but to then go to her public friends and ask them to share in it seems like a bridge too far. We're essentially policing their friendships with each other and holding them all accountable if one does something we find disagreeable. I saw some comments in this thread saying that nobody is intending to isolate Contra from her friends but even if that's not the intent, that is the results of this line of thinking.
Well, to be honest, the only point you seemed to make was that it's fine to police their friendships because they have a platform. Which I admit I don't have much of a response to other than, like, no that isn't okay.
Thank you. I appreciate you're comments and contributions to the discussion as well. Have a good one.
While there definitely bad actors who take advantage of situations like this to harass, you really shouldn't paint people frustrated with Contrapoints with such a broad brush. Trans and genderqueer people are affected by a large personality like Contrapoints, especially one who is trusted by a large amount of people to know her shit about transgender topics, making shitty comments about them and highlighting someone like Buck Angel. There's plenty with good reason to be frustrated with her, and it's shitty to say that cause others used our frustration and pain as an excuse to harass that these criticisms aren't valid. Genderqueer people are not looking to paint her in a negative light, we'd just like her to stop throwing us under the bus.
Where does she says that Natalie has a plan? She just said that Natalie will speak on the issue when she's ready, whatever that is.
Oh I see, but they are not the same person so the point is weird. Plus Lindsay said that regarding the patron post without any inside knowledge of what happened, maybe she meant plan as in a plan to talk about the controversy? Not saying that the whole thing doesnt just smell like a big fuckup though.
Ehh maybe they took extra care answering to avoid further backlash, or maybe it took them by surprise? Either way Contra position is still very weird, but weird is better than bigoted in my book :P
The issue is that they were pressuring Natalie's friends to take a stand against her, Theryn is a different thing as she is part of the actual Contra team, but Lindsay and PT for example are just close friends. Plus Theryn herself said that she criticizes Natalie on those points too, just gives her the benefit of doubt because she trusts her.
Yea in the end Nat's silence is not a good look if she expects to explain herself. But I guess that's worth it for her for some reason. I still think she is not going to pull the Kojima-esque excuse and will actually apologize, but that's because I trust her, and it's a very risky move regardless.
I really do want to just acknowledge fuckups and hope she'll get better. I'm not as familiar with Natalie as I am with other creators, but it's harder to just write her off because I know she's not just some alt-right chucklehead who speaks in bad faith arguments.
Nah. Something something cancel culture something something left eating it's own something something stop making a big deal out of this something something.
