Being frank I don't think people offer much to the conversation without a broader understanding of the past year of incidents around Natalie and the NB community.
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ContraPoints | Canceling
- Thread starter Infinity Times Two
- Start date
I barely recognise names, nevermind keeping in my head the gender identity of literally every user I interact with.
Wow Contrapoints not learning anything and continuing to defend a bigot. Who could have seen that comingYeah sorry the Buck Angel section is actually worse than the people defending her summarized
She got inspired by these quotes
From him, which btw are basically you hate me because you're hurt and you hate yourself
And then she admits she knew he was hated going in to getting him on her show but trans Twitter hates everyone so who cares.
This isn't an apology it's an outright defense of the man.
while I don't think you're actually disingenous enough to do so to determine who to debate during a thread, you do realise its as simple as checking someone's profile to see their gender identity right? If you're on PC rn you don't even need to click, just hover over the profile picture
Jesus Fucking Christ you click their name. You don't need to memorize a thing. You click their name and see their gender.
Why on earth would I check for someone's gender identity to discuss James Charles racist tweet with them?
Seriously baffled at this turn lol what am I missing here?
Two things.
1. It sounds like you are agreeing with me. That without actually having some understanding of the subject, you offer nothing. So I'm going to assume that you agree people who are just complaining about the length of the video are idiots.
2. What are you trying to imply here? Do you know me? Do you know what I know? Then why the hell are you trying to gate keep? Who would quality under what you just said? Wtf
I literally just said I don't think thats what you actually did in the post you're quoting. However the reasoning behind why someone might seems pretty simple to me
So why did I need to watch this?
She pays lipservice to Buck's bigotry against non binaries and the rest is, he's important, he can be saved by hanging out with me, trans Twitter needs him to be horrible so I can be called horrible.
She should run for office she's pretty good at talking out of both sides of her mouth.
This isn't an apology video, which again is really funny in context of associating herself with Charles who did out right apologize.
It's a trans Twitter is mean and sure Buck says some not good things but it's trans Twitter who is the problem not him. It's not an apology it's a defense of the man lmao
She pays lipservice to Buck's bigotry against non binaries and the rest is, he's important, he can be saved by hanging out with me, trans Twitter needs him to be horrible so I can be called horrible.
She should run for office she's pretty good at talking out of both sides of her mouth.
This isn't an apology video, which again is really funny in context of associating herself with Charles who did out right apologize.
It's a trans Twitter is mean and sure Buck says some not good things but it's trans Twitter who is the problem not him. It's not an apology it's a defense of the man lmao
So if you're going to give this advice with this much passion you should probably answer the gender question for yourself.
This must be the most confusing derail I have even been a part of
it's whatever, i'm not trying to use my identity as a "i'm nonbinary, you have to accept that i'm right" card or whatever (even tho that card doesn't even really exist but w/e) but i do think the "you condemn James Charles forever as an irredeemable racist???" thing is super irrelevant to the fact that i pointed out it was weird that Natalie didn't see anything racist about that tweet in the first place. not to mention her pretty vigorous defense of buck angel, literally all she says is ~i feel uncomfortable with the distancing but even if he was a truscum that's no excuse to ostracize him~
(Which like, it's totally valid to limit your profile, you do you when it comes to level of privacy and information you're willing to share with the internet, but perhaps it's not great to be that antagonistic about it how easy it is to do when you specifically limit it? Like you can literally just be like "For most posters you can just hover over their user name or view their profile to see their gender")
All I see is you trying to discount the opinions that NB people have of Contrapoints.
but but she apologised for two previous controversies and predicted people would be hesitant to watch an almost 2 hour long video titled cancel culture after she "got cancelled". clearly its a masterpiece
1. I don't think someone needs to 'add much to the conversation' to post a valid grievance around her or the video, especially if a part of the affected group. They're not idiots, no.
2. I'm speaking to people for which that literally applies; people without context to the past year of incidents around Wynn and the NB community. I don't think they have much to add to the conversation, it's not gatekeeping it's just people lacking the full context to the events the video is concerning.
Not quite sure why you're getting in quite such a flap.
Her sarcasm and repeating of yikes this ain't it chief and shit is ridiculous when ostensibly she supposed to be showing she's not dismissive of the issues at hand.
It's pretty clear that she believes she didn't fuck up and is the victim.
It's pretty clear that she believes she didn't fuck up and is the victim.
Not that you probably care at this point but I thought the Buck Angel part was super weak even if I thought she was being sincere for most of the video.
The part where she goes over her problematic tweets was much better imo. She actually does apologize for a lot of stuff in there.
Yeah sorry the Buck Angel section is actually worse than the people defending her summarized
She got inspired by these quotes
From him, which btw are basically you hate me because you're hurt and you hate yourself
And then she admits she knew he was hated going in to getting him on her show but trans Twitter hates everyone so who cares.
This isn't an apology it's an outright defense of the man.
"You're angry because you hate yourself deep down and not because of my own actions. That's okay though, allow me to comfort you like the selfless martyr I clearly am."
Like imagine this video is Buck Angel was a virulent racist rather than a virulent bigot against non binary people
I was pretty clear what I was talking about. You acted like it was impossible to know Tulpa's gender identity without mind reading when its a basic function of the site. I made this clear when you didn't understand what I was getting at with my first post and even stated I don't think you'd purposefully do this in an argument and you immediately claimed that was what I was saying you did. There, understand now?
her white audience would respond the same way most of her cis audience responded tbh
He's a master of the stealth darvo. It'd be impressive but it's not really that hard to pull off in a culture that delegitimizes all anger regardless of context
I know you aren't quoting me with this shit without receipts. Where have I done this?
Here is the list of what I have in this thread.
1. Complaints about length without even watching the video is pretty poor criticism.
2. I think we need to be careful with labels.
Ok, all confusing and quite pointless to the discussion at hand, but I do understand now.
A: Being frank I don't think people offer much to the conversation without a broader understanding of the past year of incidents around Natalie and the NB community.
B: What are you trying to imply here? Do you know me? Do you know what I know? Then why the hell are you trying to gate keep? Who would quality under what you just said? Wtf
This has to be the most succinct distillation of recent threads one could have. Legitimately perfect.
B: What are you trying to imply here? Do you know me? Do you know what I know? Then why the hell are you trying to gate keep? Who would quality under what you just said? Wtf
This has to be the most succinct distillation of recent threads one could have. Legitimately perfect.
1. What are you talking about? My whole point is that just complaining about length, is not a valid grievance. At the very most it's a pretty piss poor one if you haven't even seen the video. Stop trying to make this about the NB or wider community. This is about drive by posts that are literally tldr.
2. So why even bring it up? Why the fuck are you going to bring up a need for wider context? You are gate keeping and I dont appreciate it. Don't play dumb.
The tweets that started this concerned her personal feelings about and struggles with being gendered correctly. Those gut reaction feelings are some of the hardest to work on and control, especially when they intersect with the pain of misgendendering. I don't talk about this in public (guess why!) but I have had so many one on one discussions with trans friends who have mentioned going through phases like that as they simultaneously navigated transition, identity refinement, presentation and perception thereof, overcoming internalized oppression, and social status.
Her feelings from that experience were not uncommon. I hate that open discussion of the process complexities of realizing a trans identity, especially earlier on post coming out, are being driven underground for not being perfect. I truly believe that it is a net good for newly out and questioning people to see these things out in the open so that the first time they think about them doesn't have to be when it happens to them - they can start doing the work earlier, in a calmer place than they'd be in on the spot like Natalie was. I can't really speak to how cis audiences perceive this stuff, but saying "hey, this came up and I had complicated feelings about it" is useful for so many newly out folks who don't have extensive queer theory backgrounds and resources at their disposal.
People ooh and ah over lengthy physical transition timelines and glow-ups but expect intellectual/philosophical growth to manifest instantaneously. I think TGNC folks should have space to work through these things, especially when they're tied in so closely with personal experiences like how you're being gendered, and especially for the subset of trans people who face transmisogyny. I cannot imagine what it was like to basically transition entirely in public on YouTube. I believe Contra truly means well and will get there sooner than most. I used to run the largest state-based trans support network in the country, and I've seen over and over how people grow so much in their understanding of gender-based social justice from their first nervous meeting with problematic vocabularies and understandings of gender identity they had to come up with in a vacuum to fully fledged, impeccable values based on empathy and principle if they just have space to share without judgment but with kind correction. Again, my experience is colored by coming out in the South, where so many folks have to start from square one. How this was handled online is so far away from how we handle these things in actual support groups and it is honestly scary to watch.
I am truly lucky that my IRL career and social circles are made up almost entirely of leftist queer people, many of whom are trans, because there's so much more room for useful discussion, teaching, learning, and understanding in person.
I really have no idea why you're having a meltdown over this.
Legit she needs to drop the tone when talking about Buck outing Lana.
You know it takes major crazy to say caring about that makes you just a kiwi farms fascist transphobe
This part is amazing because she basically says it doesn't matter if Buck outed her or not because ot was 20 years ago and the only people who care are nazis.
She outright accuses those on Twitter, who might care if he did of being nazis pretending to be trans.
She spends all this time discussing the issue, claiming she knows what really happened but then doesn't say what happened and instead says if you cared enough to look into it you're probably a nazi.
She basically decides it's divorce drama and none of anyone's business
Convenient how a history of behaviour from Buck gets to be hand waived away.
You know it takes major crazy to say caring about that makes you just a kiwi farms fascist transphobe
This part is amazing because she basically says it doesn't matter if Buck outed her or not because ot was 20 years ago and the only people who care are nazis.
She outright accuses those on Twitter, who might care if he did of being nazis pretending to be trans.
She spends all this time discussing the issue, claiming she knows what really happened but then doesn't say what happened and instead says if you cared enough to look into it you're probably a nazi.
She basically decides it's divorce drama and none of anyone's business
Convenient how a history of behaviour from Buck gets to be hand waived away.
Damn. Take me out of context. I knew I'd end up with some bullshit in this thread, I just thought Era was better than taking people out of context.
I mean you have a quote button, but you gotta be a coward. Passions run high, but this is embarrassing.
bruh how was that confusing?
how is that out of context?
I think you need to take your own advice. I said a pretty innocuous thing about people having some wider context and you've been having a complete wobble since.
There's only one person who needs to take a break and it ain't Kyuuji.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Condescending behaviour towards marginalised communities in a sensitive discussion.
It's easy for me to see based on what you've said you aren't educated on the subject.
I still can't wrap my head around this one. They're both public figures! This isn't exactly a secret.
Tad rich, from the person that felt so attacked by the below that they went about a multi-post tantrum.
Bright bulb on your projector this evening though.
The irony is she made a big show of I didn't platform him.... then proceeds to to platform him by downplaying every aspect of his bigotry and playing up all the supposed positives.
If i was just someone who got my info from people like Nat I'd think Buck is a guy with a few outdated, but nothing too bad because he's not a bigot and his heart is in the right place, views because he's old but that he's an important inspiring man who is being unfairly maligned by trans Twitter and nazis pretending to be trans.
Literally I'd have a super positive outlook on him and a super negative and outright paranoid conspiratorial outlook on those who criticize him.
She's successfully framed criticisms of him as probably just nazis pretending to be trans.
So healthy for the discourse.
If i was just someone who got my info from people like Nat I'd think Buck is a guy with a few outdated, but nothing too bad because he's not a bigot and his heart is in the right place, views because he's old but that he's an important inspiring man who is being unfairly maligned by trans Twitter and nazis pretending to be trans.
Literally I'd have a super positive outlook on him and a super negative and outright paranoid conspiratorial outlook on those who criticize him.
She's successfully framed criticisms of him as probably just nazis pretending to be trans.
So healthy for the discourse.
I'm not going to hang around in this thread long, but I did watch the whole thing.
1. It will never not be shit siding with Buck Angel. You can say all the platitudes you want, but if you don't disavow from someone who clearly is against NB people, it means shit.
2. This should have been separate videos. There is absolutely a time and place to talk about twitter toxicity and how it's used to target LBGTQ+ individuals to inflict harm and silence them (especially in going after friends and family) but it did not belong blended into a video about Natalie herself. This muddies the waters considerably... you have her making jokes like it's one of her normal videos, while she also dives into self indulgent twitterbation (7 minutes long!) and plays up sympathy cards. It makes the apologies she does make seem fake (especially when she rings a bell afterwards like it was the butt of a joke)
Simply: It's not going to change anyone's mind on Natalie and her recent actions, and the core contrapoints video shouldn't have been used to splice into a vlog half apology video.
1. It will never not be shit siding with Buck Angel. You can say all the platitudes you want, but if you don't disavow from someone who clearly is against NB people, it means shit.
2. This should have been separate videos. There is absolutely a time and place to talk about twitter toxicity and how it's used to target LBGTQ+ individuals to inflict harm and silence them (especially in going after friends and family) but it did not belong blended into a video about Natalie herself. This muddies the waters considerably... you have her making jokes like it's one of her normal videos, while she also dives into self indulgent twitterbation (7 minutes long!) and plays up sympathy cards. It makes the apologies she does make seem fake (especially when she rings a bell afterwards like it was the butt of a joke)
Simply: It's not going to change anyone's mind on Natalie and her recent actions, and the core contrapoints video shouldn't have been used to splice into a vlog half apology video.
This whole thing is so utterly performative
The "drinking"
All of it.
It's exactly why a video in her monetized series is exactly the wrong place to be addressing these things.
Peak Capitalism though, make money on your fuck up, make money on your supposed apology and do it all again later.
The "drinking"
All of it.
It's exactly why a video in her monetized series is exactly the wrong place to be addressing these things.
Peak Capitalism though, make money on your fuck up, make money on your supposed apology and do it all again later.
Considering what happened when Kat Blaque criticized the overwhelming whiteness of leftube and how Contra's fans took it and responded, I doubt there would be much of a difference from her mostly white fanbase.
So when you throw out in response to me saying that you should at least watch the video, that people need to be aware of the context and NB community?
You don't think, maybe just a little...you are implying either a lack of knowledge on my behalf or saying in general you shouldn't comment without knowing the greater context?
Maybe you can see the similarity in "i can see you aren't educated."
At this point if they're drinking anything less toxic than "antifreeze", "rat poison", or "hemlock", I'm tired of the joke.
Lol this is honestly just getting sad
Yep she managed to come up with worse than the enbies are worse than gamergate shit
especially considering it's one part apology and three parts attack the people who dared to criticize me and directly dunk on and laugh at their tweets on camera
...You should probably take a break, or at least figure out who you're responding to if you think Kyuuji "isn't educated on the subject."