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ContraPoints | Canceling
- Thread starter Infinity Times Two
- Start date
Haven't watched yet because...I dunno. I like her videos but once she's on twitter she seems much worse. She keeps knocking NB people then apologizing in a half hearted way and then knocking them again. She seems to love positive attention but negative reactions to some of her statements cause her to be pretty shitty.
She's not a bad person. But I hate when she plays dumb, cause she most certainly is not.
She's not a bad person. But I hate when she plays dumb, cause she most certainly is not.
Watching it later tonight, absolutely interested in what she's gonna say.
Not saying people's criticism hasn't been warranted but the way people reacted after the last video felt crazy (including trying to get Lindsey Ellis, Hbomberguy and PhilosophyTube to shit on her). Given: I don't know much about Buck Angel so that could be due to my own lack of knowledge.
People aren't perfect and to my knowledge Contra's videos have always been inclusive towards non binaries.
It does really feel like the left tries to eat itself.
Not saying people's criticism hasn't been warranted but the way people reacted after the last video felt crazy (including trying to get Lindsey Ellis, Hbomberguy and PhilosophyTube to shit on her). Given: I don't know much about Buck Angel so that could be due to my own lack of knowledge.
People aren't perfect and to my knowledge Contra's videos have always been inclusive towards non binaries.
It does really feel like the left tries to eat itself.
Huh, weird given how I haven't said shit about this situation until now.
Based on past discourse over her, this is absolutely not the case, which is half the reason the Buck Angel shit blow up so much, because it appears to be a pattern of hers to be insensitive of enbies.
And the narrative that leftists critiquing each other is the left eating itself needs to die
She has clarified that time and time again. Seems very fair to say that people who are still asking for an answer can't be provided with one.
Last I heard, she was going to address them clearly and thoroughly in her next (presumably this) video. Her clarified stance on NB people seems to waffle a lot, on Twitter at least. So I was looking forward to seeing her address it long-form.
Somehow I knew she was going to make a video on this subject.
(I'm not psychic, it was the most obvious thing ever after the events of the past few months)
I just hope it's handled well. The last thing the world needs is Natalie pivoting hard into "CANCEL CULTURE" territory because she said a bunch of dumb shit on Twitter and got called out for it. I don't have an hour at work to spare watching it right now, so I'll check back in tonight.
(I'm not psychic, it was the most obvious thing ever after the events of the past few months)
I just hope it's handled well. The last thing the world needs is Natalie pivoting hard into "CANCEL CULTURE" territory because she said a bunch of dumb shit on Twitter and got called out for it. I don't have an hour at work to spare watching it right now, so I'll check back in tonight.
Turning her personal "cancellation" into an opportunity to make a grand philosophical statement puts a bad taste in my mouth when, to my knowledge, she hasn't actually publically acknowledged the criticism in the first place. If there is a response within this video, then I question why she felt the need to put it inside a feature-length Youtube video, especially when she knows that people who were hurt by her previous actions aren't going to be inclined to sit down and watch this.
The Buck Angel thing was the third time she's done or said stuff that is exclusionary towards nb folk.
Honestly, it doesn't even matter as much I'd like if Natalie does pivot like that because plenty of leftists have started doing relatively frequently since the Buck contraversy happened that I fear the damage is already done to the current movement
Possibly fourth depending on your thoughts about Baltimore, who I know some thought to be a tasteless stereotype but others were fine so thoughts are mixed on that one
Sounds like this one will be quite the powderkeg.
She has always had something of a strained and tortured relationship with the harsh cancel-happy audience her content seems to attract, and has worked fairly hard to keep herself safe and insulated from that sort of criticism.
I will try to give it a watch or a listen in the near future.
She has always had something of a strained and tortured relationship with the harsh cancel-happy audience her content seems to attract, and has worked fairly hard to keep herself safe and insulated from that sort of criticism.
I will try to give it a watch or a listen in the near future.
Looking forward to a potential summary from a brave soul because I definitely do not have two hours to devote to her, on this of all topics, considering the things she's said and how she's said them. All I can really say right now is that whatever your takeaway here ends up being, the bad guys are definitely not the NB people who she's consistently hurt. So please don't diminish that pain as the left eating itself or cancel culture or w/e
Entirely possible. Like I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with people saying "hey, maybe being incredibly reactionary and tripping over ourselves to loudly broadcast our complete rejection of a person for doing something we don't agree with is a bad idea that hurts all of us in the long run" - the problem is when someone reacts to cancellation by swerving hard into catering to the alt-right.
Why the hell is this 1 hour 40 minutes long? This is why I can't get into podcasts/youtube regardless of the subject. Radio hosts/journalists do a wonderful job of being succinct and getting their point across in shorter periods of time.
Yeah telling people not to be reactionary is fine, but I'm mainly seeing it be either people saying bad shit and getting called out and getting mad about being called out, defending their friends who were rightly called out, or someone they stan who was called out which is so frustrating, If this was the discourse I wanted on a regular basis, I'd go talk to some online nazis instead of other leftists
Hey remember that time when non-binary people were called gamergate 2.0?
Yeah I'm fine with longer videos, but ones like this start to feel masturbatory. She could get her point across in 20 minutes.
Fuck don't remind me, I was so angry, like what a shitty and dangerous take. Like the discourse over the Buck Angel shit was already getting enbyphobic asf but then that was like a fucking nuke
Just finished. It's rather exhaustive in what it covers, so it's appropriately long in that regard that I don't feel it's too excessive, but it's Natalie so there's always some excess. That said she hints at there being a follow-up to cover why people feel the need to Cancel which isn't really addressed here at all in any detail, which I think is a rather large mistake to not really delve into. And that is like another 45+ minute discussion alone.
Definitely not what many people will want from her. Especially how she addresses Buck Angel. I think, but need to preface it's a lot to process and thoughts might change with more time to process it, it was a fairly decent video breaking down and examining the subject of Cancelling and its many foibles and issues. But when it comes to her specific instance(s) of being "Cancelled" it's quite hit or miss. Again lacking that deeper examination as to why people feel the need to Cancel feels particularly critical to this whole thing and it makes the video just kind of feel like a refutation of the criticism, though largely only acknowledging and framing it all as harassment, that she's received.
Definitely not what many people will want from her. Especially how she addresses Buck Angel. I think, but need to preface it's a lot to process and thoughts might change with more time to process it, it was a fairly decent video breaking down and examining the subject of Cancelling and its many foibles and issues. But when it comes to her specific instance(s) of being "Cancelled" it's quite hit or miss. Again lacking that deeper examination as to why people feel the need to Cancel feels particularly critical to this whole thing and it makes the video just kind of feel like a refutation of the criticism, though largely only acknowledging and framing it all as harassment, that she's received.
the fact the video is so fucking long and she didn't cover why people "cancel" makes me very concerned about how she actually filled the time in this vid, like that seems like a very important part of a deep dive into the concept if you're going to cover it. I want to watch to know what she says but I'm so concerned its just gonna make me mad
Was not really aware this was a recurring joke, I stopped watching her content about 4-5 videos ago. My bad. However given the controversy around her transmedicalism views I think she could do with dropping that joke.
Cool, a 2 hour video on cancel culture from somebody who's consistently shat on a minority community and lost... none of her patreons or platform because of it?
If she doesn't address that she made a mountain out of a molehill trying to make herself a victim when she was the one attacking others, claimed to be cancelled when she was clearly being supported by her followers and other content creators despite her bigoted behaviour, and finally actually addresses her problematic views that seems like a huge waste of time.
If she doesn't address that she made a mountain out of a molehill trying to make herself a victim when she was the one attacking others, claimed to be cancelled when she was clearly being supported by her followers and other content creators despite her bigoted behaviour, and finally actually addresses her problematic views that seems like a huge waste of time.
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ContraPoints has made various comments and decisions which have hurt the Non-Binary community. Regardless of how you feel about the situation, do not attempt to dismiss the feelings of the affected marginalised communities.
Great post, this exactly where I am at with her.
Stop excusing bigotry from the people you like.
She's defending James Charles in this? Jesus. There's definitely lots of better ways for me to be spending 100 minutes of my life
lol she really made a 100 minute cry video about how poor little natalie is just receiving so much criticism for being unapologetic about working with truscum
fuck off nat
also remember how her last cry video was patreon exclusive? lol. she really out here monetizing her fuck ups and trying to spin the hell out of them
fuck off nat
also remember how her last cry video was patreon exclusive? lol. she really out here monetizing her fuck ups and trying to spin the hell out of them
I'm not 100% sure. I stopped once I got that point. Don't think she is, just trying to prove a point about how cancel culture over exaggerates things, but that isn't one to me.
oh yeah the vid where she spent more time talking about how manly and hot she thought Buck is than about his actual views. And then her stans started talking about how the enbies where turning her into an alcoholic. Fucking infuriating
I haven't finished watching everything yet, but she does address the remarks she made on twitter and said that she regretted some of the stuff she said., especially the "old-school transgender" comment. With Buck Angel, she does acknowledge that he has said suspect things such as saying that he is transexual instead of transgender, and that she disagrees with the distinction. Also, she states that it looks as if it seems like he wants to distance himself from non-binary people, and that it upsets her when he does so. However, it doesn't look like he is invalidating NBs to her. She also thinks that one cannot ignore his decades of trans-activism. But honestly though it would be better to hear from her words instead of my quick summary in case things get misinterpreted.
She starts discussing Buck Angel around 23:43-36:57 and her tweets around 39:48-53:07, and talks about past controversies involving her in 53:11-56:25. I would watch the whole video if you have the time to do so.
As a cis-person I don't have the right to say if this video alleviates concerns or not, and her comments about Buck Angel especially are not great, but this is just a quick summary of her response to her two biggest controversies.
She starts discussing Buck Angel around 23:43-36:57 and her tweets around 39:48-53:07, and talks about past controversies involving her in 53:11-56:25. I would watch the whole video if you have the time to do so.
As a cis-person I don't have the right to say if this video alleviates concerns or not, and her comments about Buck Angel especially are not great, but this is just a quick summary of her response to her two biggest controversies.
By and large she's not saying anything about him, just about how the conversation was transmuted from someone who was less than impartial about the situation as well.
I guess she's mechanically correct, but it seems kind of wrong to use as an example.
she uses James Charles as an example of how Cancel Culture works. specifically: she points out that Tati's original video about it was mostly about him endorsing a rival competitor's product and the "he tries to trick straight guys into thinking they're gay" was basically an afterthought, and how that got morphed into "james charles is a sexual predator" and it's like... ma'am those two things aren't as different as you seem to be making them and this is probably not the hill to die on.
but on the other hand she talks about how a lot of the people cancelling james charles probably don't actually give a shit about what he actually did and just wanted to take him down a peg, and in Complete Isolation From The Context Of Natalie Wynn, i kind of agree with that, because i know a lot of gay internet personalities who talk about trying to fuck straight guys but also wanted to hashtag cancel james charles for the same thing. But since we can't look at things in Complete Isolation From The Context Of Natalie Wynn, it's like Big Lol That Her Thesis Is About How What Is Actually Said Gets Morphed Into Something Else Entirely.
i am not familiar with this james charles person. how does one trick a straight man into thinking he's gay?