Content: GAAS multiplayer vs GAAS RPG single player games

Oddhouse · Feb 10, 2019

A lot of people seem to worry/complain that GAAS games like Destiny and possible Anthem will be low on content, especially at the end game state.

It got me thinking that a big single player open world game like Witcher 3 or Assassins Creed Odyssey or Red Dead 2 often has a campaign in the 50-70 hours with side content adding a further 30 hours. Add a good expansion and you can add another 30hours easily.

By contrast Destiny 2 campaign was 10hours and the end game was mostly going over same content/missions (I hugely simplify with Destiny 2 but you get the general point hopefully).

Destiny 2 world also doesn't seem as big as the single player games mentioned above either.

My question therefore and I would certainly appreciate any developers input. Why is it much harder to develop GAAS content vs single player content ? It feels to me that I get more unque content with big single player open world games vs GAAS unique content.

Why couldn't a GAAS game just the something like Witcher 3 but with 3/4 players while increasing the number of enemies and making them suitably bullet spungy (like GAAS).

Why is it that GAAS feels light on content and big RPG's feel overwelming on content ?

What do you think Era ?

Edit: can a Mod please edit the title to "Content: Multiplayer RPG GAAS vs single player RPG GAAS". Not sure how on mobile.

I realise AS:O is GAAS. My question is more focus on the amount of unque content a big GAAS single player game has vs a multiplayer console GAAS like Destiny or Anthem.

Patitoloco · Feb 10, 2019

GaaS is not a genre, RPG is.

You can have a GaaS MMORPG-lite (Destiny), you can have a GaaS action game (Siege), you can have a GaaS single player game (Paradox games, The Witcher 3, newer ACs), etc.

It all depends on how the developers want to deliver the content. Cities Skylines was a perfectly fully featured game at launch, and it has only become better and better with every patch and update, and it's GaaS as well.

Silky · Feb 10, 2019

Play Path of Exile

ArnoldJRimmer · Feb 10, 2019

Great question, I'd like to hear input from devs as well. Much smaller mid-tier studios can pull off dozens of hours of single-player RPG content, but for some reason, even devs with budgets orders of magnitude larger can't do the same for multiplayer titles.

Is it shorter timelines, because multiplayer trends move quicker? Maybe somehting about multiplayer game design is just orders of magnitude more difficult to handle?

Theorry · Feb 10, 2019

GAAS content vs single player content

I dont follow GaaS is not a type of game. AC: Odyssey is GaaS for example.

Liam1884 · Feb 10, 2019

The Witcher 3 was, and Assassin's Creed Odyssey is, GaaS.

BIG J · Feb 10, 2019

Destiny is a multiplayer social game, witcher is a single player game.

Com_Raven · Feb 10, 2019

Liam1884 said:
The Witcher 3 was, and Assassin's Creed Odyssey is, GaaS.

This! Some people seem to have this notion that GAAS must mean an online-only PvP game or something. Odyssey is absolutely a Game-as-a-Service, as are for example some of Paradox's SP-focused titles.

ghostcrew · Feb 10, 2019

I know what you're asking and it's a totally valid question but I would argue that The Witcher 3 and (100%) Assassin's Creed Odyssey are GaaS games. The Witcher 3 launched with a roadmap of free DLC/updates that kept players engaged, not to mention two major expansions similar to something like Destiny. Assassin's Creed Oddyssey, like Origins, is single player GAAS personified. They're masters at an evolving game, timed events, content drops etc. These are both examples of GaaS. And GaaS isn't a genre.

More_Badass · Feb 10, 2019

But Witcher 3 and Assassin's Creed Odyssey are GAAS...

Are you specifically talking about F2P games with microtransactions?

ghostcrew said:
I know what you're asking and it's a totally valid question but I would argue that The Witcher 3 and (100%) Assassin's Creed Odyssey are GaaS games. The Witcher 3 launched with a roadmap of free DLC/updates that kept players engaged, not to mention two major expansions similar to something like Destiny. Assassin's Creed Oddyssey, like Origins, is single player GAAS personified. They're masters at an evolving game, timed events, content drops etc. These are both examples of GaaS. And GaaS isn't a genre.

What ghostcrew said

Com_Raven · Feb 10, 2019

More_Badass said:
But Witcher 3 and Assassin's Creed Odyssey are GAAS...

Are you specially talking about F2P games with microtransactions?

Well neither Destiny nor Anthem are F2P.

It's just a case of many people mistakenly thinking that GaaS denotes a specific genre, rather than being a genre-agnostic business and release model.

Oddhouse · Feb 10, 2019

Can a Mod please edit the title to "Content: Multiplayer RPG GAAS vs single player RPG GAAS". Not sure how on mobile.

BIG J · Feb 10, 2019

Oddhouse said:
Can a Mod please edit the title to "Content: Multiplayer RPG GAAS vs single player RPG GAAS". Not sure how on mobile.

Well you just answered your own question. One has mp, the other doesn't. It takes resources to make a social aspect

bane833 · Feb 10, 2019

Liam1884 said:
The Witcher 3 was, and Assassin's Creed Odyssey is, GaaS.

Maybe in the broadest sense but these are certainly not the games people are referring to when they talk about GaaS.

Oddhouse · Feb 10, 2019

BIG J said:
Well you just answered your own question. One has mp, the other doesn't. It takes resources to make a social aspect

But does it ? Anthem only social aspect is attacking enemies in a group rather than alone ?

Why not have mass effect with a group of friends and have 100hours of content vs 10/20 hours of content in Destiny ?

rras1994 · Feb 10, 2019

Oddhouse said:
But does it ? Anthem only social aspect is attacking enemies in a group rather than alone ?

Why not have mass effect with a group of friends and have 100hours of content vs 10/20 hours of content in Destiny ?

That is basically what BioWare wanted to do with Anthem and were they got the idea from. They've wanted to make a game like that since ME1. We also don't know what the campaign length of Anthem is at the moment either. Making MP style content also does require more resources as well though.

Deleted member 135 · Feb 10, 2019

Patitoloco said:
GaaS is not a genre, RPG is.

You can have a GaaS MMORPG-lite (Destiny), you can have a GaaS action game (Siege), you can have a GaaS single player game (Paradox games, The Witcher 3, newer ACs), etc.

It all depends on how the developers want to deliver the content. Cities Skylines was a perfectly fully featured game at launch, and it has only become better and better with every patch and update, and it's GaaS as well.

Having story expansions doesn't make a game as GaaS, stop diluting the term to try and make it sound normal.

GaaS is MTX filled garbage.

More_Badass · Feb 10, 2019

bane833 said:
Maybe in the broadest sense but these are certainly not the games people are referring to when they talk about GaaS.

That's those people's problem. GAAS isn't limited to any genre or price or anything like that. All it means is that a game is supported post-release with free and paid content to keep players coming back and invested in the game. Hence games-as-a service, that the game isn't not a one-and-done purchase but a platform for ongoing content.

SG-17 said:
Having story expansions doesn't make a game as GaaS, stop diluting the term to try and make it sound normal.

GaaS is MTX filled garbage.

Having a post-release roadmap of free and paid updates and content is the definition of GAAS. Hitman 2, Witcher 3, Titanfall 2, Crusader Kings 2, Rainbow Six Siege, AC Odyssey all qualify

Com_Raven · Feb 10, 2019

SG-17 said:
Having story expansions doesn't make a game as GaaS, stop diluting the term to try and make it sound normal.

GaaS is MTX filled garbage.

Games-as-a-Service (Same as Software-as-Service) simply means that rather than constantly releasing new stand-alone products, you keep maintaining and updating one product. So if a game is being constantly expanded and updated, then yes- it is a GaaS title. Whether that is Odyssey, Crusader Kings or (very likely) Smash Ultimate.

I am sorry if that does not fit your narrative, but the definitions of things are not a question of personal preference.

melikefishnchips · Feb 10, 2019

I feel like a lot of GaaS games fall into this cycle of manipulating player engagement through limited time offers and experiences.

Look at something like odyssey. They update that game pretty much every week with new content of some sort but there's never any fanfare about it. But every seasonal event in overwatch catches people's attention because it's a limited 'if you don't participate you'll miss all this content' experience.

To that point, I think a lot of GaaS games are more interested in keeping players engaged by invoking a sense of scarcity rather than providing them with a wealth of content that they can digest at their own leisure which inevitably has some people ignore it and put it on the back burner because they know the content will always be there and/or they seem overwhelmed.

plié · Feb 10, 2019

People still don't understand what GaaS means lol

More_Badass said:
But Witcher 3 and Assassin's Creed Odyssey are GAAS...

Liam1884 said:
The Witcher 3 was, and Assassin's Creed Odyssey is, GaaS.

Theorry said:
I dont follow GaaS is not a type of game. AC: Odyssey is GaaS for example.

RIGHT.

SG-17 said:
Having story expansions doesn't make a game as GaaS, stop diluting the term to try and make it sound normal.

GaaS is MTX filled garbage.

WRONG.

Deleted member 17952 · Feb 10, 2019

Com_Raven said:
Games-as-a-Service (Same as Software-as-Service) simply means that rather than constantly releasing new stand-alone products, you keep maintaining and updating one product. So if a game is being constantly expanded and updated, then yes- it is a GaaS title. Whether that is Odyssey, Crusader Kings or (very likely) Smash Ultimate.

I am sorry if that does not fit your narrative, but the definitions of things are not a question of personal preference.

At the same time, it becomes a semantic argument and achieves nothing but dilute the discussion. We both know what OP is talking about, it feels disingenuous to respond with "but this and that is GaaS" instead of engaging with the spirit of the discussion.

Liam1884 · Feb 10, 2019

SG-17 said:
Having story expansions doesn't make a game as GaaS, stop diluting the term to try and make it sound normal.

GaaS is MTX filled garbage.

Well you're just quite simply wrong there. Games as a Service is a normal thing nowadays, and guess what, there's nothing wrong with them. I, for one, like them a lot.

Trickster · Feb 10, 2019

GaaS games like Destiny use all their playable space in just about the most inefficient way you could possibly use it. Think about how much playable space you're actually rushing through in mere minutes while doing a strike. It's continually dumbfounded me how they don't actually utilize the areas in Destiny much better. There's so many obvious things they could add that would give all their playable spaces a much better lifespan

TheRulingRing · Feb 10, 2019

Eh I don't think unique content is that important, as long as the game gives you good reason to go back over the same places.

Me personally I got 1000s of hours out of Destiny, which is far, far more than I could have from any SP game.

xenocide · Feb 10, 2019

I think the problem with a lot of your standard GaaS games--The Division, Destiny, probably Anthem--is that they treat the launch like a standard game, and end up spending 6 months playing catch up making QoL changes, handling bugs, and prepping content. It's the same problem standard MMORPG's have at launch. They underestimate how quickly people will blow through the content. The promises of "Coming Soon" will only keep people placated for so long. I fully expect Anthem to launch to reviews in the 8-9/10 range, and then people to have stopped playing in force by the end of April, and then the game to be great by September. It's the same thing we've seen with all of these games--The Division was as cheap as $5 because people had abandoned it until they got it to a good spot, Destiny was a roller coaster that finally peaked when Taken King launched.

Theorry · Feb 10, 2019

SG-17 said:
Having story expansions doesn't make a game as GaaS, stop diluting the term to try and make it sound normal.

GaaS is MTX filled garbage.

Damn how can someone be so wrong.

plié · Feb 10, 2019

Back on topic, I've spent most of this gen with GaaS games including the Witcher 3 and Sea Of Thieves, but I've got like hundreds of hours more on Sea Of Thieves, strictly because I can play with friends.

Theorry · Feb 10, 2019

plié said:
Back on topic, I've spent most of this gen with GaaS games including the Witcher 3 and Sea Of Thieves, but I've got like hundreds of hours more on Sea Of Thieves, strictly because I can play with friends.

Witcher and Sea of Thieves arent GaaS because they dont have MTX.

/s

Crossing Eden · Feb 10, 2019

SG-17 said:
Having story expansions doesn't make a game as GaaS.

This thread was needed so that posts like this are rightfully called out for creating a false narrative.

, stop diluting the term to try make it sound normal.

It's a perfectly valid business model. And it's absolutely normal.

Crossing Eden · Feb 10, 2019

Com_Raven said:
Games-as-a-Service (Same as Software-as-Service) simply means that rather than constantly releasing new stand-alone products, you keep maintaining and updating one product. So if a game is being constantly expanded and updated, then yes- it is a GaaS title. Whether that is Odyssey, Crusader Kings or (very likely) Smash Ultimate.

I am sorry if that does not fit your narrative, but the definitions of things are not a question of personal preference.

Aters · Feb 10, 2019

I wouldn't mind it if those single player games are shorter by 30 hours. They are bloated mess.

Theorry · Feb 10, 2019

Crossing Eden said:
This thread was needed so that posts like this are rightfully called out for creating a false narrative.

It's a perfectly valid business model. And it's absolutely normal.

Dont be so not normal and stop updating your game and giving us new stuff!

Crossing Eden · Feb 10, 2019

Aters said:
I wouldn't mind it if those single player games are shorter by 30 hours. They are bloated mess.

Bloated is as misunderstood a term as GaaS. Ambition gets confused for bloated. That's not how that works. A bloated game has a bunch of completely disconnected systems that don't serve to reinforce the tone or feel of the game. Like with Red Dead 2, it's basically a simulation of the wild west, and every activity in it supports that idea.

impact · Feb 10, 2019

I don't get what makes Witcher 3 a "GAAS" instead of a single player game with DLC.

Are we just labeling anything that gets a downloadable piece of content after release a GAAS? Literally every game falls under that umbrella.

Resident Evil 2, my GAAS of the year!

Deleted member 43872 · Feb 10, 2019

"Games as a service" is a business strategy for building recurring revenue streams into a game. That can be by microtransactions, subscriptions, whatever. The entire point of the strategy is that players continue to spend money as they play. It doesn't refer to simply adding to a game over time. The Witcher 3's micro-DLCs weren't monetized, so The Witcher 3 does not count. Either that or Wolfenstein 3D was a "game as a service" and nothing means anything.

Wikipedia said:
In video gaming, games as a service (GaaS) represents providing video games or game content on a continuing revenue model, similar to software as a service. Games as a service are ways to monetize video games either after their initial sale, or to support a free-to-play model. Games released under the GaaS model typically receive a long or indefinite stream of monetized new content over time to encourage players to continue paying to support the game. This often leads to games that work under a GaaS model to be called "living games" or "live games", since they continually change with these updates.

Crossing Eden · Feb 10, 2019

impact said:
I don't get what makes Witcher 3 a "GAAS" instead of a single player game with DLC.

The fact that they supported the title for a full year after it's release with free and paid content updates.

impact said:
Are we just labeling anything that gets a downloadable piece of content after release a GAAS? Literally every game falls under that umbrella.

It's almost like we live in an era where the fire and forget model isn't the norm anymore because that's a less successful business model than having some form of recurring revenue over time after the initial release.

GibdoInferno said:
The Witcher 3's micro-DLCs weren't monetized, so The Witcher 3 does not count.

The witcher 3 had multiple paid expansions, and surely by pure coincidence, free dlc released near those expansions.

rras1994 · Feb 10, 2019

GibdoInferno said:
"Games as a service" is a business strategy for building recurring revenue streams into a game. That can be by microtransactions, subscriptions, whatever. The entire point of the strategy is that players continue to spend money as they play. It doesn't refer to simply adding to a game over time. The Witcher 3's micro-DLCs weren't monetized, so The Witcher 3 does not count. Either that or Wolfenstein 3D was a "game as a service" and nothing means anything.

By releasing smaller amounts of DLC for free, it kept players engaged while they made the paid content so they had a larger audience to sell to when it came out. That's GaaS. The Sims 4 does a similar thing, it's just done it for a longer period - it doesn't have MTXs anymore but it's still a GaaS.

impact · Feb 10, 2019

So Dark Souls is also a GAAS?

Everything is basically a GAAS. Name one title that doesn't get updated after release.

Liam1884 · Feb 10, 2019

GibdoInferno said:
"Games as a service" is a business strategy for building recurring revenue streams into a game. That can be by microtransactions, subscriptions, whatever. The entire point of the strategy is that players continue to spend money as they play. It doesn't refer to simply adding to a game over time. The Witcher 3's micro-DLCs weren't monetized, so The Witcher 3 does not count. Either that or Wolfenstein 3D was a "game as a service" and nothing means anything.

The Witcher 3 absolutely was a game as a service.

Aters · Feb 10, 2019

Crossing Eden said:
Bloated is as misunderstood a term as GaaS. Ambition gets confused for bloated. That's not how that works. A bloated game has a bunch of completely disconnected systems that don't serve to reinforce the tone or feel of the game. Like with Red Dead 2, it's basically a simulation of the wild west, and every activity in it supports that idea.

You don't get to decide what "bloat" means. Unlike GAAS, it's not a term coined by the industry with a clear definition, it's a word that exists in English language for a long time. Having disjointed systems is one of many ways to make the game needlessly long, repetitive, and exhausting, which is my definition of "bloat".

Jenea · Feb 10, 2019

I disagree that Witcher 3 is a GaaS game. Here's what wiki says:

In video gaming, games as a service (GaaS) represents providing video games or game content on a continuing revenue model, similar to software as a service. Games as a service are ways to monetize video games either after their initial sale, or to support a free-to-play model. Games released under the GaaS model typically receive a long or indefinite stream of monetized new content over time to encourage players to continue paying to support the game. This often leads to games that work under a GaaS model to be called "living games" or "live games", since they continually change with these updates.

receive a long or indefinite stream of monetized new content over time, so that's not the Witcher case, which received only 2 addons the next year, in 2016. Not any game that receives any kind of extra content is GaaS.
Witcher 3 released in 2015, it got it's first addon in 2015, and the last one in 2016. So, it's definitely not a GaaS game because 1 year of support is not a long term.
The question is: for how long does a game need to recieve support in order to be called GaaS ? That's the main dilemma.

Deleted member 43872 · Feb 10, 2019

Today I learned that Nethack, Duke Nukem 3D and Heroes of Might & Magic 3 were all games as a service. Cool.

TheGhost · Feb 10, 2019

Destiny is a GaaSand though yes the OP grossly over simplified it, it was also made in a pre fortnite time period which is the definition of GaaS to me.

They hinted as much in their blog post after seperating from Activision.

Destiny 3 will be totally different I believe in terms of content delivery and microtransactions.

Why do single RPG's feel over whelming on content? Because they are one and done titles. Witcher 3 is a great game but I would never play if again.

There is also no fear of falling behind friends when it comes to those games.

Liam1884 · Feb 10, 2019

Jenea said:
I disagree that Witcher 3 is a GaaS game. Here's what wiki says:

receive a long or indefinite stream of monetized new content over time, so that's not the Witcher case, which received only 2 addons the next year, in 2016. Not any game that receives any kind of extra content is GaaS.
Witcher 3 released in 2015, it got it's first addon in 2015, and the last one in 2016. So, it's definitely not a GaaS game because 1 year of support is not a long term.
The question is: for how long does a game need to recieve support in order to be called GaaS ? That's the main dilemma.

A year's worth of support for The Witcher 3 is more than enough to consider it a GaaS. Are you having a laugh?

Jenea · Feb 10, 2019

Liam1884 said:
A year's worth of support for The Witcher 3 is more than enough to consider it a GaaS.

Who said that ? I wrote in my previous post the definition of GaaS from wikipedia. In what universe 1 year (2 addons) is considered a long term, when usually these kind of games get 3-4-5 years of support ?

impact · Feb 10, 2019

GibdoInferno said:
Today I learned that Nethack, Duke Nukem 3D and Heroes of Might & Magic 3 were all games as a service. Cool.

Oblivion as well

BioShock probably top GAAS last gen. It got like 3 DLCs.

rras1994 · Feb 10, 2019

impact said:
Oblivion as well

BioShock probably top GAAS last gen. It got like 3 DLCs.

It's almost like the AAA industry has been moving towards this business model for years and years, right?

plié · Feb 10, 2019

impact said:
I don't get what makes Witcher 3 a "GAAS" instead of a single player game with DLC.

Are we just labeling anything that gets a downloadable piece of content after release a GAAS? Literally every game falls under that umbrella.

Resident Evil 2, my GAAS of the year!

RE2 Is GaaS :)

plié · Feb 10, 2019

impact said:
Oblivion as well

BioShock probably top GAAS last gen. It got like 3 DLCs.

Good! you are catching on! It's not that hard.

Content: GAAS multiplayer vs GAAS RPG single player games

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