Conspiracy Mafia 2 |OT| Where you can overthink everything and not sound like a crazy person

[Fanto]

Good morning!

Caught up on things overnight, just wanted to quote this post:

The bathroom things could be a role, could be a function of the bathroom itself, could be a day based event, could be a neutral that will never tell the truth etc. Too many variables. And I do care about avoiding the Faddy fluff as well, I have said as much - he should use his power.

Zeke and the auctions also fall into the same problem. Does the auction move between rooms? Does Zeke follow the auctions or do the auctions follow him? What about room population in relation to where the auctions are being held? Does Zeke make the auctions? Are the prizes really bread and will the famine begin in two nights? We can fluff the discussion with all these questions but the thing that actually will answer the questions is information and that ain't coming (unless something #random) until tomorrow.

Small discussion on these matters is kk. Going too much into it is not.

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I fully agree with all of this and it's why you probably won't see me engaging too much with room and auction speculations. Too many variables, not enough info, and I don't feel like having pages of mechanics/role speculation is going to help us find Scum any better than talking about our reads and voting for people.

Otherwise, yes Sorian's post was good, the reads from Loki are about what I would expect from her, feeling pretty good about Kyan, feeling a bit worse about Ynnek, still not feeling that great about FEPs or Kalor.

 

[Fanto]

Let's use some logic here:

We know scum were given safe fake claims.

neeks claiming commuter and the rules say so.

So do we think a scum faddy went with this fake role? That he would eventually have to prove? Was he hoping no one would ever question it and make him prove it? Doesn't make sense.

So he has to have the role. Ok we make faddy use the command. What does it prove in a bastard game? Nothing , only that he wasn't lying. We can have faddy prove his claim late game or when he does something really scummy. Continuing to discuss it this early is just noise/distraction.

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Agreed with all of this too.

 

[Sorian]

Sorian wants to get an allegedly mod-confirmable Townsfolk killed and Dr. Mobkey Town-reads him for it yet won't back him up with a vote on Faddy, shit's s t r a n g e

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You go opposite in your next post anyway but no, if he's telling the truth then I don't want to get him killed and he would be in no danger anyway. He can just remove himself from any doubt and actually be a strong voice but he won't.

I should have quoted Zeke too and I saw he just posted again, to your first point. I still think it's wild you just eat this at face value with no questioning. It's such a dumb play to just trust him. To your more recent post, saying scum have fake claims so why would he do this means piss in the wind, scum go against their own fake claims all the time in this community to both amazing and disastrous effects, most think the mod provided claims are weak. And no, it does prove something. I know how much of a shit show HvV2 ended up being with all of this but the fundamental difference there was that Muffin was copying someone, here Faddy is pretending it's his actual role and with a drawback (that sounds bad on paper even if it's not) like that, it would be a normal clear 99% of the time.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

I'm not talking role mechanics, I'm taking why move wee out when no one would be targeting her? just to show that the power exists? why?

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This is a VERY good question.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

Let's use some logic here:

We know scum were given safe fake claims.

neeks claiming commuter and the rules say so.

So do we think a scum faddy went with this fake role? That he would eventually have to prove? Was he hoping no one would ever question it and make him prove it? Doesn't make sense.

So he has to have the role. Ok we make faddy use the command. What does it prove in a bastard game? Nothing , only that he wasn't lying. We can have faddy prove his claim late game or when he does something really scummy. Continuing to discuss it this early is just noise/distraction.

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Hard disagree. It isn't that Faddy has to do anything scummy. I'm waiting for him to act town. Where is the for sure town Faddy? Because that's actually pretty typical for him. The absence plus the weird claim is what makes me sus and of he's not gonna be super involved with solving, are images a huge drawback?

If I see town Faddy, I care less about the claim. Until then, I care.

 

[Sorian]

I'm not talking role mechanics, I'm taking why move wee out when no one would be targeting her? just to show that the power exists? why?

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This is a VERY good question.

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We're still talking about Sparks here right? Why does he do anything? I think that nothing seeming to have happened to Wee even though she left the bathroom says everything there. Town Sparks does that shit for fun because he can, scum Sparks is asked to do it so someone else can do something to Wee.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

We're still talking about Sparks here right? Why does he do anything? I think that nothing seeming to have happened to Wee even though she left the bathroom says everything there. Town Sparks does that shit for fun because he can, scum Sparks is asked to do it so someone else can do something to Wee.

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If it's Sparks. I just wonder why scum would target wee, but I'm also not super invested in these questions because we have so little to go on.

 

[Sorian]

If it's Sparks. I just wonder why scum would target wee, but I'm also not super invested in these questions because we have so little to go on.

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She was the only one in the bathroom right? It's to send a message if it's scum motivated but again, you usually send the message with something else. Just moving her is tipping your hand for no reason.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

Anyway, re: Faddy, I will probably put up a whole ULTIMATE FADDY post at some point just to summarize all the talking points so I can save myself typing it all several times, but maybe we can skip the whole thing by talking TO Faddy.

Faddy

Do you have updated reads?

 

[Dr. Monkey]

Zippedpinhead are you still not in a position where you can post much on the weekends? Just trying to figure my expectations.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

You go opposite in your next post anyway but no, if he's telling the truth then I don't want to get him killed and he would be in no danger anyway. He can just remove himself from any doubt and actually be a strong voice but he won't.

I should have quoted Zeke too and I saw he just posted again, to your first point. I still think it's wild you just eat this at face value with no questioning. It's such a dumb play to just trust him. To your more recent post, saying scum have fake claims so why would he do this means piss in the wind, scum go against their own fake claims all the time in this community to both amazing and disastrous effects, most think the mod provided claims are weak. And no, it does prove something. I know how much of a shit show HvV2 ended up being with all of this but the fundamental difference there was that Muffin was copying someone, here Faddy is pretending it's his actual role and with a drawback (that sounds bad on paper even if it's not) like that, it would be a normal clear 99% of the time.

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It's not that I'm accepting it with no question. It's that I don't see a reason to make him prove it at this point.

fake roles: yes scum can freestyle a fake claim.....but they still run the risk of running into a cc. So this specific fake claim still wouldn't make sense from a scum perspective.

I don't think there was an IC in hvv2.

 

[Fanto]

I don't think there was an IC in hvv2.

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*Loki cries*

She was confirmed at game start. Muffin copied her role and Geno said he was Town too, even though he was Scum.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Hard disagree. It isn't that Faddy has to do anything scummy. I'm waiting for him to act town. Where is the for sure town Faddy? Because that's actually pretty typical for him. The absence plus the weird claim is what makes me sus and of he's not gonna be super involved with solving, are images a huge drawback?

If I see town Faddy, I care less about the claim. Until then, I care.

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Yea, I don't really care for meta reads. So that's where we differ on faddy.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

*Loki cries*

She was confirmed at game start. Muffin copied her role and Geno said he was Town too, even though he was Scum.

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That was mod confirmed town or some other named role wasn't it?

It wasn't like how an innocent child works. Think that was a big talking point iirc.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

Yea, I don't really care for meta reads. So that's where we differ on faddy.

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Even without meta reads, I just don't really see Faddy doing a hell of a lot to solve in this game. He's not forging unique positions. He's not pushing on folks. He's just sort of there and agreeable.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Even without meta reads, I just don't really see Faddy doing a hell of a lot to solve in this game. He's not forging unique positions. He's not pushing on folks. He's just sort of there and agreeable.

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Are you among the ones that want him to prove his power now?

 

[Fanto]

That was mod confirmed town or some other named role wasn't it?

It wasn't like how an innocent child works. Think that was a big talking point iirc.

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It was just a different kind of IC, some get confirmed at start, some can activate it whenever they want. And yeah, Geno didn't call it an Innocent Child, but we were a Switcher and he called it a Portal Gun.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

Are you among the ones that want him to prove his power now?

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I don't know how many different ways I need to say this but I am interested right now in Faddy proving he is town by solving. If his drawback is onerous and he doesn't want to post in images because he will lose text, he damn well better make good use of text - and he's not.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

I don't know how many different ways I need to say this but I am interested right now in Faddy proving he is town by solving.

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Ok just checking

 

[EzekelRAGE]

It was just a different kind of IC, some get confirmed at start, some can activate it whenever they want. And yeah, Geno didn't call it an Innocent Child, but we were a Switcher and he called it a Portal Gun.

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*truffleshuffle*

 

[Zippedpinhead]

Zippedpinhead are you still not in a position where you can post much on the weekends? Just trying to figure my expectations.

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Not really, I'll make minimum post count based on my participation tomorrow and randomly today, but between kids basketball tournament yesterday, kids soccer yesterday, helping my kids make three pinewood derby cars and the rest of the basketball tournament today I'm just barely holding on with reading the page the game is on.

It's just a super busy weekend.

Based on what I read yesterday I think Pirate Bae is over reacting to sawneeks scum flip in a way that, to me screams scum trying to cover.

it's almost never possible for a scum flip to have 100% town on it at this phase, but this vote count was so low.


Sparks? I gotta reread sparks,

Now as far as role claims and fake role claims, this is basterd and maniac. That means seeing doubles is legit possible, but weird things off the top of my head like innocent child, loved, and that one where if scum hits them at night they can't NK the next night (I think it's princess?). may truly be one offs or unique fake claims.
I'll be honest until fran comes in and posted some sort of "confirmed town" or we get a flip, I'm not sure we can derive information one way or another.

like town actually having a commuter or town having two commuters seems legit in a game this size, so giving scum one to fake RC is kinda basterd but not game breaking.

 

[Faddy]

Anyway, re: Faddy, I will probably put up a whole ULTIMATE FADDY post at some point just to summarize all the talking points so I can save myself typing it all several times, but maybe we can skip the whole thing by talking TO Faddy.

Faddy

Do you have updated reads?

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Here are my strong town. You, Fanto, TWE.

I will trust that the town Aeleus read is good and not worry too much about it.

I have generally a good town meta read on Blarg and kyan. And I think Kyan has been townie outside his usual performance posts.

I think Terra is my strongest scum read from the way votes went down. But I also haven't really liked his play all game. I commented that his push on TWE seemed weird at the time but when I decided TWE was town I didn't want to push onto Terra because it made sense for him to try and push TWE was scum.

I like the read of Zipped as scum. I said I could understand ketat voting for me but the Zipped vote really came as a surprise because I thought I had gained some solid town reads at that point.

I like Verelios as town with his post at the deadline. Could he do that as scum? Maybe. But it felt like a genuine reaction.

malus is very much in my paranoia zone. nicole is right in there too. Not really sure on either of them.

Chuggs was townie to begin with but dropped off. Not convincingly town for me.

nin hasn't done much outside his sawneeks vote. But he seems townie enough.

I will trust you on Sorian for now. (aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah)

 

[Dr. Monkey]

Chuggs was townie to begin with but dropped off. Not convincingly town for me.

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I feel like Chuggs started town, dropped off, but came back - albeit with a push, but after the push, he seems fine to me. Probably not someone I'd put much energy on at this point at least. Are you seeing a particular reason in the more recent posts or just more of a general feeling?

 

[Ketkat]

Let's use some logic here:

We know scum were given safe fake claims.

neeks claiming commuter and the rules say so.

So do we think a scum faddy went with this fake role? That he would eventually have to prove? Was he hoping no one would ever question it and make him prove it? Doesn't make sense.

So he has to have the role. Ok we make faddy use the command. What does it prove in a bastard game? Nothing , only that he wasn't lying. We can have faddy prove his claim late game or when he does something really scummy. Continuing to discuss it this early is just noise/distraction.

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I think that you're making a lot of assumptions here that kind of prove why it's a claim that works for scum. It's true that scum have fake roles, but I'm not sure why you're automatically assuming that Faddy must have this role. I mentioned this before, but an Innocent Child is a relatively safe role with no real drawbacks, but simply being in a bastard game on it's own is enough for the role to have a drawback as people are going to question whether we're being lied to or not. The drawback of having to post in images for the rest of the game is either something that is a lie that Faddy is telling us or a lie that Fran is telling us as having two drawbacks on this role make it lose a lot of it's utility.

There are a lot of people who when they saw that role, they started to look elsewhere because they believed him as you do now. This is the benefit of this role for a scum to claim this. He is treated as an innocent child without having to ever actually reveal that to us that he is. As the game gets further and further along, he can continue to bring up how important is to have every voice talking possible, and avoid claiming even then.

So no, I don't believe he has to have this role at all and I think it's dangerous to assume that about a role that only works when claimed and the owner refuses to claim it.

 

[Faddy]

The way I see it is that a whole bunch of people I am happy to call town voted on Terra.

lokiduck is putting together some good stuff. maol has a sort of townie perspective on his zeke swtich which leaves only a really late voting PirateBae with a high scum potention imo.

VOTE: Terrabyte20xx

 

[Faddy]

There are a lot of people who when they saw that role, they started to look elsewhere because they believed him as you do now. This is the benefit of this role for a scum to claim this. He is treated as an innocent child without having to ever actually reveal that to us that he is. As the game gets further and further along, he can continue to bring up how important is to have every voice talking possible, and avoid claiming even then.

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OK. Using this idea. If I'm town mafia can probably assume I am telling the truth and therefore feel pressure to move their vote because the claim is true and knew I would prove it if I had to.

 

[Faddy]

You can see Sawneeks probing for more info around my claim to try and figure me out. Her whole agenda is about working out if my claim makes sense.

Because for scum because I didn't use the command they can't know if I am actually an innocent child or protecting a more valuable role claim with a fake claim.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

1. I think that you're making a lot of assumptions here that kind of prove why it's a claim that works for scum. It's true that scum have fake roles, but I'm not sure why you're automatically assuming that Faddy must have this role. I mentioned this before, but an Innocent Child is a relatively safe role with no real drawbacks, but simply being in a bastard game on it's own is enough for the role to have a drawback as people are going to question whether we're being lied to or not. The drawback of having to post in images for the rest of the game is either something that is a lie that Faddy is telling us or a lie that Fran is telling us as having two drawbacks on this role make it lose a lot of it's utility.

There are a lot of people who when they saw that role, they started to look elsewhere because they believed him as you do now. This is the benefit of this role for a scum to claim this. He is treated as an innocent child without having to ever actually reveal that to us that he is. As the game gets further and further along, he can continue to bring up how important is to have every voice talking possible, and avoid claiming even then.

So no, I don't believe he has to have this role at all and I think it's dangerous to assume that about a role that only works when claimed and the owner refuses to claim it.

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1. There is no way he claims this as a fake role as scum. Because he Would be forced to prove it at some point. And when he doesn't deliver, he dies.

2.He is not being treated as an innocent child. I haven't seen anything to make me go, yothis is super scummy. Prove the power now or you get lynched.

 

[flatearthpandas]

We're still talking about Sparks here right? Why does he do anything? I think that nothing seeming to have happened to Wee even though she left the bathroom says everything there. Town Sparks does that shit for fun because he can, scum Sparks is asked to do it so someone else can do something to Wee.

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Nah, after d1 i stop buying the "why does crazy person do crazy things" argument. especially in role madness. and since claim i think sparks is k in the game. so either he moved someone or someone else had the power to move wee out for apparently no reason

 

[flatearthpandas]

and sorian has big on how blarg becomes more useful and town the later the game goes on. i assume sparks isn't dead weight and acts appropriately. everyone should move rooms

 

[Ketkat]

1. There is no way he claims this as a fake role as scum. Because he Would be forced to prove it at some point. And when he doesn't deliver, he dies.

2.He is not being treated as an innocent child. I haven't seen anything to make me go, yothis is super scummy. Prove the power now or you get lynched.

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I don't actually believe number 1 realistically. There are a lot of arguments that can be made surrounding it that can be used as a reason to not claim. Some of them are used now, and it's why people aren't pressuring him to claim.

You can see Sawneeks probing for more info around my claim to try and figure me out. Her whole agenda is about working out if my claim makes sense.

Because for scum because I didn't use the command they can't know if I am actually an innocent child or protecting a more valuable role claim with a fake claim.

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So, these were Sawneeks' posts about you at the end of day. The first one here was before your claim while the other three were all afterwards.

If we're gonna play the 'assume what they meant and put words in other people's mouth' game then it should be clear what i meant when I said that 'Faddy came out of it as sketch'. It means I think he is scummy. :u

If he did more than that one I didn't see it. You got a link?

Again, still catching up. Half the stuff I saw was already finished a page later and it would've been redundant to bring it back up again. If you read my post to Ket I was going to vote Faddy and bring him up into this train convention we have going on to make people start having hard choices but she beat me to it. Out of the remaining people with 2 votes (TWE and Fanto) I saw no reason to keep TWE and while I personally would not vote out Fanto today. Hence why I didn't vote for him.

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Faddy if you knew you couldn't use your IC until Day 3 while in the Bathroom why did you go there around when the game started?

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Ideally, yeah. But I don't get why you would neuter the role just to make sure you lived through the Night if it meant you couldn't save town a mislumnch.

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I mean Faddy was my go to vote for today too but that claim doesn't seem like scum? IC is easy enough to prove and imo that restriction makes it more realistic and likely for him to be town.

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I'm not sure I see how she's trying to see whether you're hiding a more powerful role as much as just showing that she has some form of doubt about the claim. If you are both scum, this wouldn't be out of the question if the gambit didn't pay off in the end. Even still, she only really had one question and then she was talking about how you were town. Which could make sense if she wanted to avoid making the two leading trains scum.

Right now, I don't really buy this claim. But, I am aware that people aren't too interested in following up on this right now and I can't even vote today, so we can come back to this later.

I am still interested in a Pirate Bae flip, but I want to take a closer look at the votes on her next

 

[EzekelRAGE]

I don't actually believe number 1 realistically. There are a lot of arguments that can be made surrounding it that can be used as a reason to not claim. Some of them are used now, and it's why people aren't pressuring

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Hmm, maybe I'm mixing how I would play it if I was scum.

meh, not worth proving it today imo neway.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Right now, I don't really buy this claim. But, I am aware that people aren't too interested in following up on this right now and I can't even vote today, so we can come back to this later.

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What claim exactly? for the sake of brevity

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

Sorry for being absent most of the day yesterday. I'll have a lot to say later tonight about all of this including a full reads list based off of yesterday and something's said today.

 

[Ketkat]

What claim exactly? for the sake of brevity

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The Innocent Child who can only post in Images after the reveal

 

[Kalor]

I only trust claims that require you to remove all the vowels whenever you post.

 

[flatearthpandas]

The Innocent Child who can only post in Images after the reveal

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gotcha. but i think there's decent suspicion there.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

*truffleshuffle*

 

[nin]

Sorry for being absend most of this day. I wi probably be more active tomorrow.

Nonetheless I want to put out the players that just rub me the wrong way

Pirate has an active vote from me and others. She started the day recapping the eod but it did ( not sure how to phrase it any other way) not really geniuine. I was unsure theast dayohase about her but put her on town at the end of the day.
Nonetheless as mentioned in my prior Post today this just seems like busywork instead of doing some active conversation with others or scum hunting. I will probably leave my vote on her and I am not going to do any shinenigans as of now.

Fanto: he seems as off as Sawneeks. I don't buy him being that unsure about everything. I looked past that b acting and would put him behind bae as an possible scum player.

Will now read through most of the last day and hopefully make some remarks. Sorry again as I won't be able to post much for the coming 12 hours. This will change of course and I will be there for the rest of the week.

Hope this helps.

If there any questions for me, they can be done as of now.

 

[Pirate Bae]

So when kyan moves his vote at EOD to bait switches no one bats an eye, but when I do it everyone loses their shit

I want him and Sparks gone. Nothing they do has convinced me they're town.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Fanto: he seems as off as Sawneeks. I don't buy him being that unsure about everything. I looked past that b acting and would put him behind bae as an possible scum player.

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Your thoughts on fanto starting the saw train?

 

[Dr. Monkey]

So when kyan moves his vote at EOD to bait switches no one bats an eye, but when I do it everyone loses their shit

I want him and Sparks gone. Nothing they do has convinced me they're town.

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So what happens if we vote Sparks and he's town?

Don't get me wrong - I don't think he contributes much if anything here. And while we are "ahead" in that we got scum d1, we don't know what powers might be flying around or what items people picked up and how that's going to change anything. So we have probably 5ish scum still out there, maybe different if there are factions/neutrals, but still a fair amount. How does voting Sparks out here advance the game?

 

[nin]

Your thoughts on fanto starting the saw train?

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No, they started with him being unusually unsure. Just improved as saw turned out to be mafia.
I mean almost most of his reads we're this sentence "would be willing to put a vote down".

Blank comments

 

[Fanto]

Current Scum Suspects:
Kalor
Ynnek
Zipped
FEPs
Mao
Terra

 

[Fanto]

Current Scum Suspects:
Kalor
Ynnek
Zipped
FEPs
Mao
Terra

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These are the people who didn't vote for Saw that I find to be the most suspect now at this point of the game.

I feel like the Bae vote is a trap, too many people I'm not a fan of or am at least paranoid about are clinging on to that easy read, either with a vote or with their Protect/Investigate/Kill lists. I just don't buy it. That doesn't mean I have Bae as Town yet, it just means I don't have any better reason to Scum read her than others and I'm not a fan of the runaway narrative going against her today.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Z

So when kyan moves his vote at EOD to bait switches no one bats an eye, but when I do it everyone loses their shit

I want him and Sparks gone. Nothing they do has convinced me they're town.

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I may be letting my mindset of treating kyan like sparks/blarg color that.

how do YOU read it.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

These are the people who didn't vote for Saw that I find to be the most suspect now at this point of the game.

I feel like the Bae vote is a trap, too many people I'm not a fan of or am at least paranoid about are clinging on to that easy read, either with a vote or with their Protect/Investigate/Kill lists. I just don't buy it. That doesn't mean I have Bae as Town yet, it just means I don't have any better reason to Scum read her than others and I'm not a fan of the runaway narrative going against her today.

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If there's a cop, Bae should be in consideration for a check, I think. Bae, Blarg, Faddy, and yes, Sorian, are a good pool for that. But I also don't know how much I'd trust checks in this game, so insert shruggie here.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

No, they started with him being unusually unsure. Just improved as saw turned out to be mafia.
I mean almost most of his reads we're this sentence "would be willing to put a vote down".

Blank comments

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So you think fanto bussed the rb?

 

[nin]

Your thoughts on fanto starting the saw train?

Click to shrink...

Wanted to add this
Mafia has no problems starting trains as starting something does not mean that it will actually comes true

Edit : no connection and being on mobile sucks

 

[Fanto]

I said it before, and obviously since it's coming from me you don't have to believe it, but my own self read is simply: I am weird about bussing, think back to Conspiracy 1, I tried to bus Splinter but couldn't commit to it at all and just ended up looking weird. I would never put my final vote on D1 onto my Roleblocker partner when I was literally moving it all over and could have settled anyplace else.

That's my defense, take it as you will.