IIRC they were behind a lot of the attack ads that killed Gore and Kerry's campaigns.
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Congratulations Comrade Trump!
- Thread starter Syriel
- Start date
IIRC they were behind a lot of the attack ads that killed Gore and Kerry's campaigns.
Oh ya I'm with you I'm staunchly anti-war. I think sanctions and diplomacy would do the trick. It's so difficult to discuss though because I do think they have dirt on Trump and having a compromised leader just kills all solutions.
The Lincoln project are all neocon war mongers, these are literally the people who did the Iraq war, I really really really don't think they deserve the benefit of the doubt that they don't want war.
This is not their first that is agitating for conflict.
I posted that in the other thread and I generally agree with the points being made there.
I thought it was funny, however, its Red Scare foundations are disgraceful (though typical classic Republican), and I don't believe it to be very effective towards idiots who might still vote for Trump: it requires them to be willing to read, appreciate sarcasm, and think Putin is somehow bad.
I am basically agnostic on a bunch of neocons making ads beating the drums of war, since I don't think they have that much influence anyway and hope it stays that way, I just don't think the Democrats should be following them on that.
Yeah, one of their top guys is Rick Wilson, who was a huge GOP guy in the naughties. He's basically admitted and apologized that the constant oneupsmanship that defined conservativism was what led to the rise of Trump.
I'm gonna give you some spoilers, they aren't turning democrat.
They are running those ads in DC, this is about annoying Trump and getting free publicity, not winning voters in Ohio.
It's also cheaper like that.
Between this and how Trump's campaign runs positive ads in DC to make him happy when it watches TV, it's truly stunning how much media and political apparatus is deployed just to control his mood lol
They did. And Donald Trump has been cultivated by Russian interests since the Cold War was an actual reality. He first mused of running for President in the late 80's after coming back from a visit to Moscow, and ever since his outward public persona was continually inflated and projected outward to the United States citizenry in order to make him a household name/known quantity. It's not a coincidence. It's no coincidence that he housed Russian Mafia in his properties, same with Russian Mafia blood money being laundered through his properties too.
It wasn't "Communism" that won the Cold War either. It was managed Illiberal Democracy controlled by oligarchs/concentrated wealth that won the Cold War.
That's obvious. I'm not oblivious to the fact that they'll help us dump Trump's ass on the street and then put democrats back in the crosshairs.
What about the decades of damage done to the Middle East and their subsequent destabilization due to empty boogeymen created in part because of the Cold War? Both sides created monsters in different parts of the world.
edit: read a bit further and saw that we are both on the same side. What I get for jumping the gun.
I'm not under any illusion and no benefit of the doubt is being given. I genuinely think diplomatic and economic pressures are reasonable in regards to Russia's brazen provocations. What neo-cons want is irrelevant because not only will the President be a Dem but the party in general might even run the table and take everything.
Warmongering is just a Republican staple at this point so I don't have some extra concern over the people behind he Lincoln project. I think if Trump gets another term he'll got to war because he won't have to worry about the fallout as he'll be done in 4 years and he'll want to try out.
Also, there was no "good" side in the Cold War for many nations. For Western democracies the US was undoubtedly the better side since it wanted to protect democracy in the west...though of course it had no qualms about siding with dictators in the third world.
I don't think he's watched any of the ads. I think the key is he just hears one is made and what they're attacking him for, then he proceeds to whine about it. Regardless of the content, it helps in the goal of getting him to realize he's being attacked in an ad, which shifts him toward using his platform to complain about how mean everyone is to him.
This only works if "the west" doesnt include South America and SA is more "to the west" than the US is haha
"The West" (in political discussion) typically refers to NA, Europe, and Australia/NZ. Basically the Eurosphere. Also known as the First World. The Second World was the Soviet Bloc, and the Third World was everywhere else.
Also, geography-wise, South America is to the east of NA, generally speaking.
*yawn* This kind of lazy leveraging of jingoism, nationalism, and Red Scare aesthetics in order to distract from the fact that Trump is the logical conclusion of American institutions and their moral bankruptcy is so tired. The Lincoln Project wants to portray Trump as an aberration so that the GOP can easily cleave themselves from him, wash their hands of him, and pretend that he is not the direct product of their ideology. And sadly, so many Democrats are falling for it, because establishment Dems are happy to distract from their own failings.
Thank you so much for writing this. It's insane that people watch this and aren't concerned about what happens after Trump is gone.
Welcome to proxy wars. I generally think that proxy wars are bad and we should stop doing them. I suspect we disagree on this point.
And neocons don't want WW3 with Russia, they want sanctions and they generally think the US should be aggressive with it.
In what what way are you different with them on this issue?
Neocons don't have influence? Bolton almost starting a war with Iran was just a fluke to you or...?
But yes, Democrats should not be attacking Trump from the right.
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This.
Tbh, I'm not even surprised by what some of the users posting these videos have said. It's like neocons and neoliberals share a LOOOT.
Neocons are usually neoliberal. The terms aren't mutually exclusive. Edit: To clarify, the former is a foreign policy subculture, born of and usually operating within neoliberalism. I'm sure neoconservative values can have application outside of neoliberalism, but neoliberalism is kind of ubiquitous. I didn't slyly mean "both sides are the same" because it's a little more complicated than that.
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I do kind of fear the GOP just becomes the paleoconservative party permanently and the neocons just embed themselves in the Democrats.
"Any leader with a spine would be stomping the living shit out of some russians right now"
"I'm a pro-lifer"
So I don't know, but I see stuff like The Lincoln Project and this PAC and it scares me.
I will tell you why it scares me.
Historically, Biden foreign policy wasn't that different than those people, and he's already made some signs that he might try to out hawk Trump on wars.
And Biden love bipartisanship, and fuck, I am truly scared we get some neocon in the cabinet.
I donno, maybe I'm overreacting. But let's say that I'm wrong, the worst thing I'm doing is shitting on some war criminals who got away murder without even a hit on their reputation.
Biden's policy people were in charge of Beto's war tax shit iirc which was extremely anti-war and super PACs aren't direct funding. But idk; you're right: money talks.
Reformist neoconservatives (there is very much a snap-back after the excesses of the Bush years, just as there was a neoliberal snap-back after the excesses of Thatcher / Reagan) are policy adjacent to liberal hawks and the latter very much has a home already in the Democratic party-if not the majority opinion on foreign policy. Can trace that line right through Hillary Clinton to Madeline Albright and so forth.
That being said, I don't think there's anything to fear here. The consensus is less about regime change and more about how to bully populist leaders via economics and diplomacy to not be illiberal shits to their people.
signed, your friendly neighborhood liberal hawk
I suspect there are both pro peace and pro war people whispering in his ears, that how it usually play.
Though honestly, I think the Democratic base is just really pro war these days, not sure how it happened so quickly after Iraq, but it did. And if the base wants or even okay with war, you'll get war. Because there is enough there is always forces pushing the other way in America.
like... who, exactly?
is anybody in the 'project' going to have any role in the biden admin? what 'never trumpers' aren't essentially retired from politcs at this point aside from talking on cable news or whatever
None of these anti-Trump Republicans are your allies, y'all. NONE OF THEM. They still want you in fucking fetters, just... civilly.
Let'em expend money dragging Trump though, 100%.
Let'em expend money dragging Trump though, 100%.
Biden already said that he's considering republicans, and I think neocons are the most likely candidates, because at least historically, it can be kinda hard to find daylight between their and his foreign policy positions.
I am not saying this is a forgone conclusion, I am saying I am worried about that shit.
Those people are AWFUL, they have the blood of millions people on their hands and they want to keep on doing the same shit because they learned nothing.
well of course he's going to say that. i don't hold illusions his admin won't be clinton/obama retreads (which itself is problematic) but he's going to appoint a bunch of donald rumsfelds in his cabinet because some RINOs threw money at an ad against trump... this train of thought is just baffling to me
When in doubt: use socialist imagery and call Trump a "comrade". For bonus points, use a deep, soothing voice with a thick Russian accent, some communist symbolism, a lot of usage of the color red, and some sweeping Soviet music.
It's super effective on liberals and conservatives alike.
It's super effective on liberals and conservatives alike.
I would be way less worried if I didn't see so many people cheer for ads that call for war in a mostly Democratic forum.
I don't know if you remember those people, but they were like side character in the shitshow that was the Iraq war and the Bush presidency. And like, imagine if 15 years from now Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Jarden Kushner and Don Jr. came back and were celebrated as great allies.
That's how I feel about those assholes.
I am really upset about the rehabilitation that all those Iraq war criminals are getting right now. I don't think we need their help, no one likes them, even the GOP base mostly hate them.
Their constituency is David Brooks, Thomas Friedman and a bunch Lockheed Martin execs.
Fuck them and everything about them.
Sorry, rant over, maybe.
1. They're not RINOs, Steve Schmidt was the person responsible for Sarah Palin. Rick Wilson worked with George HW and Rudy Giuliani. I'm not sure what implication you are trying to make by characterizing them as RINOs. They are establishment republicans.
2. Clinton/Obama retreads were, some of the time, Bush retreads (see: Robert Gates). But you don't have to be in the cabinet to influence policy. Punditry, lobbying, and think (propaganda) tanks. Or they'll probably go back to doing GOP PR and campaign strategy which is still hollow from the inside out. These people aren't becoming democrats, and they don't intend on doing so.
3. But this isnt specifically about the founders The Lincoln Project, but an indictment on establishment republicans who for a LONG time participated, supported, and abetted fuckery but said Donald Trump was too much. Just because they're competent in political strategy doesn't make them allies because we have common enemies.
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Good post, but it's probably better the Republican party separate themselves from Trump and consider him an aberration than double down and god-forbid, have Trump Jr. run in the future, etc.
The GOP was either going to anti-Trump or all-in-Trump, and I'd much rather the former.
(also, Trump losing by a landslide and probably losing the senate is still the likely outcome)