I'll never understand why Nintendo, after creating such lovely credit sequences in Oot and Majora, went with the lame bubbles in the Wind Waker.
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Confusing retrograde decisions in a series
- Thread starter mikhailguy
- Start date
The decision to have Virtue's Last Reward adopt a by and large rather ugly 3D-ish art style over the amazing sprite art of 999 comes to mind.
And then I remember Zero Time Dilemma exists and lose my shit a little at how much it made everything about presentation even worse
And then I remember Zero Time Dilemma exists and lose my shit a little at how much it made everything about presentation even worse
Abandonning the Mercenaries mode after Resident Evil 6 was a crime.
The dialogue system in Fallout 4.
Metal Gear Solid going open world.
The dialogue system in Fallout 4.
Metal Gear Solid going open world.
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Devil May Cry 5:
- DmC Definitive Edition introduced a toggle option for the lock-on. Despite the many features DMC5 borrowed from DmC, this wasn't one of them. Not a confusing omission, since it was a feature added in a re-release and the probably originally added since the addition of lock-on would otherwise mean holding up to three shoulder buttons at a time. Disappointing and a step back nonetheless.
Resident Evil:
- No Mercenaries mode after RE6. Again, not confusing, since there are other modes available in each game that doesn't feature it, but still disappointing as it's been a series tradition since pretty much RE2, much like Bloody Palace in DMC.
- Lack of Live Selection and alternate ending in RE3 remake. The original RE3 was shorter and had less replay value than RE2, so cutting features that added variety might mean less replay value overall.
- DmC Definitive Edition introduced a toggle option for the lock-on. Despite the many features DMC5 borrowed from DmC, this wasn't one of them. Not a confusing omission, since it was a feature added in a re-release and the probably originally added since the addition of lock-on would otherwise mean holding up to three shoulder buttons at a time. Disappointing and a step back nonetheless.
Resident Evil:
- No Mercenaries mode after RE6. Again, not confusing, since there are other modes available in each game that doesn't feature it, but still disappointing as it's been a series tradition since pretty much RE2, much like Bloody Palace in DMC.
- Lack of Live Selection and alternate ending in RE3 remake. The original RE3 was shorter and had less replay value than RE2, so cutting features that added variety might mean less replay value overall.
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Bungie going from having a solid faction system (aka New Monarchy, Dead Orbit, Future War Cult) in Destiny 1 to not knowing what the hell to do with them in 2, opting to just...leave the three faction leaders standing there doing nothing for nearly two years [!!!] now, with no end in sight.
Factions were a great way to encourage the use of all three of your characters, who could each join a separate faction and grind for exclusive (and good!) rewards. Now there's really not much reason for me to play anyone other than my main.
Factions were a great way to encourage the use of all three of your characters, who could each join a separate faction and grind for exclusive (and good!) rewards. Now there's really not much reason for me to play anyone other than my main.
Holy shit, this too. MP1 Samus looked perfect. Her reveal in MP2 was...not a good moment.Also
Spell crafting being dropped between Oblivion and Skyrim.
A-fucking-men.
A-fucking-men.
One for Fire Emblem.
In Fire Emblem Fates, classes were no longer gender locked. Giving us the first male Pegasus Knight in Subaki and the first female Fighter in Rinkah.
In Fire Emblem Three Houses, which allows you to customize your characters to a fairly big degree has characters be gender-locked again. No male Pegasus Knights, no female Brawlers and so on. And perhaps the most annoying, no male Gremories. That last one is an infantry magic class that focuses on all kinds of magic, meaning female mages have a perfect class to end on, while male mages either need to get a horse or stick to Bishop/Warlock for the rest of the game.
I get main characters having unique classes, but I had hoped that after Fates, you could have all the male Pegasus Knights and female Barbarians you'd want from then on.
In Fire Emblem Fates, classes were no longer gender locked. Giving us the first male Pegasus Knight in Subaki and the first female Fighter in Rinkah.
In Fire Emblem Three Houses, which allows you to customize your characters to a fairly big degree has characters be gender-locked again. No male Pegasus Knights, no female Brawlers and so on. And perhaps the most annoying, no male Gremories. That last one is an infantry magic class that focuses on all kinds of magic, meaning female mages have a perfect class to end on, while male mages either need to get a horse or stick to Bishop/Warlock for the rest of the game.
I get main characters having unique classes, but I had hoped that after Fates, you could have all the male Pegasus Knights and female Barbarians you'd want from then on.
Yeah, that was a pretty funky decision. Still love Echoes, just...keep the suit on.Also
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The attache case from RE4 not returning in future installments is also so weird.
Who doesn't love rotating a giant fish to fit next to your grenades?
Earthbound as a franchise going from "intentionally irreverent and satirical RPG as though seen from a child's eyes" to "normal dramatic RPG with jokes and cutesy art style"
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gonna note ahead of time that I don't hate Mother 3 by any means I just think Earthbound is a much more interesting game and has a better M.O.. M3 feels much more generic by comparison, whereas Earthbound has really never been imitated well. M3 is much less niche, though, and you'll see consistently in threads talking about the games that many people say something along the lines of "I thought Earthbound was aimless or boring etc etc but Mother 3 is a real masterpiece"
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gonna note ahead of time that I don't hate Mother 3 by any means I just think Earthbound is a much more interesting game and has a better M.O.. M3 feels much more generic by comparison, whereas Earthbound has really never been imitated well. M3 is much less niche, though, and you'll see consistently in threads talking about the games that many people say something along the lines of "I thought Earthbound was aimless or boring etc etc but Mother 3 is a real masterpiece"
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They let you build a team of Assassin's in brotherhood and revelations then completely wiped it off the face of the earth, it didn't even come back in Origins the freaking game about starting the Assassin's.
It always comes up as a favorite feature in discussions of those 2 games so I dont understand at all. Especially it not coming back in Origins.
Edit: Just to rant more about the AC series overall (its one of my fav franchises so this comes from the heart lol) why the hell do we run through Assassin's like we're in a rush. Can we please spend more time with these guys and gals, where is my Evie game, my second Bayek or Arno game, what a silly decision.
It always comes up as a favorite feature in discussions of those 2 games so I dont understand at all. Especially it not coming back in Origins.
Edit: Just to rant more about the AC series overall (its one of my fav franchises so this comes from the heart lol) why the hell do we run through Assassin's like we're in a rush. Can we please spend more time with these guys and gals, where is my Evie game, my second Bayek or Arno game, what a silly decision.
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They were the memories of King Hyrule floating to the surface.
You can basically pick any aspect of Morrowind and it'll be a good example of this by the time the series got to Skyrim
- Getting real directions to locations
- Levitation spells
- Spell crafting
- Spears
- Armor enchants
- Killable NPCs
- Diegetic fast travel options
- Interacting quest trees
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Just recently finished the main game of origins and The hidden ones I want another game with Bayek he is easily my top 3 protags in the series
He's so good and we just never see again now, like its crazy, the reason Ezio is so many people's favorite is because we got to essentially live his whole life, whereas with everyone we just see flashes, they are going through them so fast you can hardly remember them all
And to top that we have a upgrade system that cant be used because you never know what weapon you going to have at hand.
Dragon Age Inquisition dropping in-depth custom AI tactics for vague and generalized party member behavior in a combat system where you sorely needed your party members to do very particular things in very particular spots at particular times.
Mass Effect Andromeda not letting you map specific squadmate powers in a combat system built on power combos.
I mean the answer to both is likely Frostbite so not that confusing but still retrograde.
Mass Effect Andromeda not letting you map specific squadmate powers in a combat system built on power combos.
I mean the answer to both is likely Frostbite so not that confusing but still retrograde.
I like Sarah Connor Samus and Smash-era Zero Suit just fine, but that awkward middle ground is pretty bad.Also
Removing Zero's spinning saber in Mega Man Zero 3 and 4 is my answer.
In Hotline Miami 1 you would burst into a room, baseball bat in hand, and go on a fast-paced killing spree.
In Hotline Miami 2, there were a few changes:
-A greater number of massive maps where enemies would be found off-screen
-A greater focus on guns
-Door bashes + several other short-term disabling actions not resetting the combo timer
With all these changes, I found myself instead bursting into a room... and then immediately running back through the door in order to avoid a hail of bullets from enemies hiding out of sight and to funnel enemies into the adjacent room to kill them one-by-one in the fashion of a meat grinder.
If in some parallel universe Hotline Miami 1 was the sequel to 2, I have no doubt it would have been praised for taking a flawed but promising idea and polishing it up by removing all the fluff and focusing in its strengths.
In Hotline Miami 2, there were a few changes:
-A greater number of massive maps where enemies would be found off-screen
-A greater focus on guns
-Door bashes + several other short-term disabling actions not resetting the combo timer
With all these changes, I found myself instead bursting into a room... and then immediately running back through the door in order to avoid a hail of bullets from enemies hiding out of sight and to funnel enemies into the adjacent room to kill them one-by-one in the fashion of a meat grinder.
If in some parallel universe Hotline Miami 1 was the sequel to 2, I have no doubt it would have been praised for taking a flawed but promising idea and polishing it up by removing all the fluff and focusing in its strengths.
Wind Waker's credits were aight, you didn't really need updates on the lives of the NPCs like you did in OoT and Majora's Mask, in fact I'd argue it works better given how the entire ending is setting up a blank slate with limitless possibilities
Breath of the Wild, now there's a game with terrible credits
As for my own examples - removing most of Blathers' dialogue in Animal Crossing: New Leaf. It was streamlining in the worst way possible, stripping one of my favorite characters of basically all their personality in favor of bland wikipedia entries within the museum itself. At least New Horizons is fixing that, seemingly.
Similarly there's the removal of most story elements in Mario Galaxy 2. It's a better game, but it's nowhere near as "magical" as the first. Almost feels more like an extremely polished mod pack for the original at times.
Breath of the Wild, now there's a game with terrible credits
As for my own examples - removing most of Blathers' dialogue in Animal Crossing: New Leaf. It was streamlining in the worst way possible, stripping one of my favorite characters of basically all their personality in favor of bland wikipedia entries within the museum itself. At least New Horizons is fixing that, seemingly.
Similarly there's the removal of most story elements in Mario Galaxy 2. It's a better game, but it's nowhere near as "magical" as the first. Almost feels more like an extremely polished mod pack for the original at times.
This is a gameplay/design critique: How Mass Effect 1 started, and how Mass Effect 3 started.
Mass Effect 1
Mass Effect 3
Do you want to choose what your character says or do you just want to look at them talk like it's any other friggin AAA game with a linear cinematic story? By removing the dialogue wheel so often it stuck out like a sore thumb just how far behind BioWare's animation was from its competition. Worst of all, less than 90% of the game's linear conversations are handkeyed, so it uses an awkward puppet-like gesture system. The whole justification for that approach was its interactivity. With that gone it just felt like a tryhard attempt to beef up the choreography with inferior tools.
After the first conversation choice in Mass Effect 3 you're looking at 3 minutes of completely uninteractive cinema where your character speaks every second sentence of the dialogue. Bad cinema at that. In ME1 you're drawn into the game's cinema as an active participant, like a movie you're inside of. That was the whole appeal of the franchise from a video-game perspective. In Mass 3 you're just observing it from a distance.
Mass Effect 1
Mass Effect 3
Do you want to choose what your character says or do you just want to look at them talk like it's any other friggin AAA game with a linear cinematic story? By removing the dialogue wheel so often it stuck out like a sore thumb just how far behind BioWare's animation was from its competition. Worst of all, less than 90% of the game's linear conversations are handkeyed, so it uses an awkward puppet-like gesture system. The whole justification for that approach was its interactivity. With that gone it just felt like a tryhard attempt to beef up the choreography with inferior tools.
After the first conversation choice in Mass Effect 3 you're looking at 3 minutes of completely uninteractive cinema where your character speaks every second sentence of the dialogue. Bad cinema at that. In ME1 you're drawn into the game's cinema as an active participant, like a movie you're inside of. That was the whole appeal of the franchise from a video-game perspective. In Mass 3 you're just observing it from a distance.
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The drastic quality drop in presentation going from Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3 to Marvel vs. Capcom Infinite is what basically doomed the latter game.
Like, why is Infinite so ugly to look at? You should be expecting games to look better as time goes on. Even with the artstyle change there is no reason why Chun-Li or Dante had to look like... that, even if it was just pre-release.
Like, why is Infinite so ugly to look at? You should be expecting games to look better as time goes on. Even with the artstyle change there is no reason why Chun-Li or Dante had to look like... that, even if it was just pre-release.
Another one I just remembered is removing the option to holster your weapon in most ME3 missions. I feel like this contributed to the overly linear feeling of ME 3, it was basically just a shooter at that point with none of the exploration or world building of the first two.
That one was technical apparently. They increased the mobility and dynamics of the combat moveset and they also ported it to all 3 consoles for the first time. Eventually something had to give with memory limitations, especially with PS3 and its 256mb limit, and they had to cut holstering. Whenever the game tells itself to toggle between exploration and combat it literally loads two different character objects now, and requires a load screen.
I will say, I understood the desire to amp up combat but I've often thought that there must have been a better way than to outright sacrifice the bridge between action-heavy and action-less moments. The ME2 combat wasn't that far behind after all.
That's too bad. And yeah, tbh I actually prefer the ME 2 combat in some ways. It was at least the most strategic of the trilogy I felt, in the higher difficulties you really have to think about what types of ammo and abilities you and your squadmates are using depending on the enemies. ME 3 might be more satisfying to move in but 2 is still pretty engaging to play.
Going from Paper Mario 1&2's parties full of lovable characters (and also Madame Flurrie) to partying up with single, unplayable embodiments of that game's gimmick in subsequent games is a travesty, as was going from interchangeable badges where you could make interesting and powerful builds, to single use stickers.
That disappointed me sooo much at the time.
The MM's and OOT's credit sequences were just so emotional and beautifully directed.
Then Wind Waker just got some half-assed ugly looking Power Point presentation slapped on it.
All of the niceties and advancements made in Resident Evil 3 that were just gone in Code: Veronica. I know both were being developed at the same time but someone should have noticed that Nemesis was getting much better treatment and attention in terms of innovation for the series and its gameplay design, and thought to carry at least SOME of that over to CV aside from just the 180 degree quick turn. In spite of being on much better hardware with flashier real time cut-scenes, CV feels much older and archaic than 3. Also, this isn't really "retrograde" in terms of design choices, but it also mysteriously LOOKS worse than 3 with horrible in-game character animations, extremely drab environments and lighting, and a complete lack of gore and dismemberment.
Any time a turn-based RPG adds computer-controlled party members and removes the player's ability to control each party member. Persona 3 is a great game that I mostly prefer to the Persona 2 duology, but the inability to control party members in Persona 3 is a massive downgrade. The same goes for Suikoden 3--having control of only three party members, rather than six, plain sucks. I think the developers in both of these cases realized their errors, because the sequels quickly restored control over all party members (Persona 4 even advertises the return of player control on the back of its box).