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ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,482
If fans are that displeased they can always just... Not buy the game? :P
Also, criticism is fine. Hijacking a hashtag intended to pay respect to devs, who are currently on the receiving end of fan death threats, is not fine.
Then any fuck konami, fuck capcom, ea, Ubisoft, etc post should be bannable too.
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
I'm convinced the ladder freeze thing is a quick and dirty fix to a terrible game breaking bug lol
Not that it excuses it, but that has to be it
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
I don't agree how that user express it but is true. People have always treated Nintendo like this sacred family friendly company that can't do bad and ignore things like Sakurai working with an IV, Tomodachi Life treating same sex relationships as a glitch, etc.
Nintendo can't force Sakurai to come to work, nor can they force him to stay at home when he is unwell. He's not an employee of Nintendo.

The Tomodachi Life issue was fucked up, but they admitted they fucked up and promised to rectify it. Same sex representation is an issue in a lot of Japanese games and culture in general. Not saying that excuses it, but the fact they immediately recognized their mistake and promised to do better speaks for them. Compare that to how Atlus reacts (or rather not reacts) to the same criticism.
 

Homura

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Aug 20, 2019
6,103
If fans are that displeased they can always just... Not buy the game? :P
Also, criticism is fine. Hijacking a hashtag intended to pay respect to devs, who are currently on the receiving end of fan death threats, is not fine.
Is that even confirmed?
I know someone tried to accuse Masuda of rape but death treats to entire company? I never read that
 

Geg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,536
The arguments of "If anyone else did this there'd be a huge backlash but because it's Nintendo they get a free pass" are always funny to me because they always tend to happen in big threads where there's a lot of backlash happening lol
 

Deleted member 48828

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 21, 2018
731
Yeah. That's what sucks. It's like a helpless feeling of nothing will ever change. Game Freak will continue doing what they're doing.
I've come to peace with the fact Pokemon just isn't for me anymore.
If fans are that displeased they can always just... Not buy the game? :P
Also, criticism is fine. Hijacking a hashtag intended to pay respect to devs, who are currently on the receiving end of fan death threats, is not fine.
I think people don't need you to tell them that.
And "hijacking" a hashtag isn't harassment.
 

Moara

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,832
Remember #FuckKonami? I do remember.

source.gif
 

Dark Cloud

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
61,087
The arguments of "If anyone else did this there'd be a huge backlash but because it's Nintendo they get a free pass" are always funny to me because they always tend to happen in big threads where there's a lot of backlash happening lol
I guess they missed the Nintendo Switch online topics and Reggie's bulky headset replacement
 

Zedelima

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,714
Oh man, why nintendo doesnt take pokemon from gamefreak's hands?
i mean, im not saying that they can do no wrong, but the track record proves otherwise
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,733
Okay for real though what's with the blind defense of one of the biggest, most lucrative brands in entertainment? Why is a slightly snarky sarcastic hashtag warning worthy when we get off topic "fuck Ubisoft" type posts in threads about Assassin's Creed, or people cheering when Ubi stock craters after some unsuccessful games without a warning in sight? Are we really at the point where some companies are simply beyond reproach because reasons? I just can't rectify the tone policing that is taking place in Pokemon threads with the routine harshness that is tolerated and often fostered/encouraged in threads about other companies.

Speaking objectively, they have cut an absolute shitton of content. They are releasing a barebones title with terrible textures, pop in, animations that would still have been unimpressive two decades ago, horrible frame rates, and loads of cut content compared to prior entries for 50% more money. Any other company would get savaged for this behavior, and rightfully so. A sarcastic hashtag is the tamest fucking thing, and absolutely within the boundaries of what they deserve for the utter shit show that this gen is shaping up to be.
There's some kind of cognitive dissonance happening here, because when you can make blanket statements like "buying Diablo means you don't care about human rights, fuck Blizzard" or call people shills for mentioning that the MTX in Assassin's Creed Odyssey aren't all that bad without warnings but you 100% will get warned for saying #thankyougamefreak... What's up? Is gamefreak not part of a coalition of very rich companies working on a huge entertainment brand with the goal of extracting money from consumers? They didn't suddenly become a huge charitable organization that donates all of those profits to a worthy cause like cancer research or what have you, did they? Why should they be shielded from the same acerbic tone this forum takes with every other capitalist company that pulls some bullshit.

Fuck Konami, fuck Ubisoft, fuck EA, fuck Blizzard, fuck Capcom, but most certainly never EVER criticise GameFreak. Good people are behind making these games and these games only, and we wouldn't want to contribute to any toxicity surrounding this completely unearned, mistakenly maligned game that has no flaws.

*Claps* My points exactly!!! They aren't special and shouldn't be shielded away from any kind of criticism. On top of that, yes, harrassing devs are obviously not anything anyone should do, but these same company's that people who are Pokemon fans would normally say fuck you too, don't ever give af about the devs for those companies being harrassed. So yeah, this has been grinding my gears since I seen that hashtag go up.
 

weebro

Banned
Nov 7, 2018
1,191
It's the fault of era moderation for letting that behavior run rampant. Saw the same shit in the Jim Sterling thread about blizzard and Hong Kong, saw it in THQ topics and Kingdom Come Deliverance topics. Perhaps if there was some consistent moderation for situations where goofballs come into particularly sensitive topics to announce their intent of purchase with the sole intent of riling up others, we'd see it less.

Please don't criticize the mods I've heard morale has been low already.

#ThankYouEraMods
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,921
Oh man, why nintendo doesnt take pokemon from gamefreak's hands?
i mean, im not saying that they can do no wrong, but the track record proves otherwise

The political situation of The Pokémon Company, Gamefreak, and Nintendo is an odd one. They're mostly independent, but Nintendo also has partial ownership.

Something like Nintendo taking Pokémon away from Gamefreak would be a major coup and the fallout would be insane.
 

goodretina

Member
Dec 30, 2018
1,700
I think most people who are critical of the game aren't harassing the devs, and criticizing the devs doesn't make someone (or a whole fan base) intrinsically toxic. I don't understand why some people think GF needs to be treated with kid gloves.
 

MarcelRguez

Member
Nov 7, 2018
2,418
Except it is accurate. People say gamefreak as a whole. Not attacking the individual devs working.
It's not, because a publisher and a dev are not the same thing, and it's much, much easier to personify one over the other.

Mind you, I'm just explaining the thought process behind the hashtag. I find it naive and corny myself.
 

Dark Cloud

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
61,087
I can understand the thankyougamefreak meaning to be a boost to the morales of the developers of the games. It's a nice gesture.
 

Deleted member 48828

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 21, 2018
731
Funny how we don't have any actual GF devs talking about their experiences with death threats but random twitter nobodies. Then treat hashtag sarcasm like it's an actual problem.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
If fans are that displeased they can always just... Not buy the game? :P
Also, criticism is fine. Hijacking a hashtag intended to pay respect to devs, who are currently on the receiving end of fan death threats, is not fine.
When did "fuck *insert company*" become harassment? This stuff is posted en masse for any company. Bioware with the Mass Effect 3 ending or Anthem, Bethesda with Fallout 76, EA with Battlefront II, Warner with the shoddy Arkham Knight port, I don't think I have to mention Konami...

Nobody ever interpreted these comments as slights against regular devs working at these companies. Only with Gamefreak it's now suddenly harassing devs. The only reason why that is reads to me like an attempt at silencing criticism, because the avalanche of fuckups with this game became too much to rationalize for people trying to downplay criticism.

I'm still waiting on the receipts of these death threats by the way. They get brought up again and again but nobody can point to them. The only time someone tried, it turned out to be an article about another company where Gamefreak was just mentioned out of context.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,482
It's not, because a publisher and a dev are not the same thing, and it's much, much easier to personify one or the other.

Mind you, I'm just explaining the thought process behind the hashtag. I find it naive and corny myself.
People mostly group tpc and gamefreak as one in the same. Regardless, there clearly is a mega defense force for gamefreak.
 

Geg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,536
The removal of GTS is almost as big as the cut Dex for me. It's just game breaking. Trade, a core feature of these games, just became that much harder.

And for what? What was the reason? I'm still in disbelief.
As someone without a living dex and who hasn't tried to complete a pokedex since gen 1 I could at least understand both sides of the nation dex cut. Obviously the people upset by that were right to feel that way, but I had also been thinking something like that might be inevitable as the total number of Pokemon becomes unfeasibly large.

On the other hand removing GTS without some kind of close equivalent is completely baffling, like I'm at a loss.
 

Omegamon

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,884
If fans are that displeased they can always just... Not buy the game? :P
Also, criticism is fine. Hijacking a hashtag intended to pay respect to devs, who are currently on the receiving end of fan death threats, is not fine.
The whole thing was based on a rumor and those receiving cherry picked death threads are the higher ups, not random programer or random 3d artist number #11 who are the ones dealing with a shitty management. Masuda and Ohmori don't deserve death threads but they don't need to get their egos inflated.
 

Deleted member 48828

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 21, 2018
731
As someone without a living dex and who hasn't tried to complete a pokedex since gen 1 I could at least understand both sides of the nation dex cut. Obviously the people upset by that were right to feel that way, but I had also been thinking something like that might be inevitable as the total number of Pokemon becomes unfeasibly large.

On the other hand removing GTS without some kind of close equivalent is completely baffling, like I'm at a loss.
I just think it's hilarious we're letting a company like Game Freak, who can't even manage to make routes without pokemon and npcs popping in like Superman 64, decide what's feasible or not.
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,661
To be fair, Gamefreak has released patches for graphical glitches and quirks (not performance, but glitches) so this could very well be fixed

I know that, but it does support the notion that GF is in severe need of changing their development process.

If you're expecting to avoid crunching, then you'll have to abandon the yearly release schedule. That or employ more.
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,730
Funny how we don't have any actual GF devs talking about their experiences with death threats but random twitter nobodies. Then treat hashtag sarcasm like it's an actual problem.
It's funny because I doubt GF devs read english twitter.

It's not, because a publisher and a dev are not the same thing, and it's much, much easier to personify one over the other.

Mind you, I'm just explaining the thought process behind the hashtag. I find it naive and corny myself.

The difference is in other cases the publishers are in control and is the reason for the issue such as ports, mtx and firing kojima. I don't think this is the case with GF.
 

Soran

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
697
Nintendo can't force Sakurai to come to work, nor can they force him to stay at home when he is unwell. He's not an employee of Nintendo.

The Tomodachi Life issue was fucked up, but they admitted they fucked up and promised to rectify it. Same sex representation is an issue in a lot of Japanese games and culture in general. Not saying that excuses it, but the fact they immediately recognized their mistake and promised to do better speaks for them. Compare that to how Atlus reacts (or rather not reacts) to the same criticism.
They are still light years behind most western companies, companies that had hear the #FuckYou tag more often than Nintendo ever will.
 

Deleted member 49535

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 10, 2018
2,825
Okay for real though what's with the blind defense of one of the biggest, most lucrative brands in entertainment? Why is a slightly snarky sarcastic hashtag warning worthy when we get off topic "fuck Ubisoft" type posts in threads about Assassin's Creed, or people cheering when Ubi stock craters after some unsuccessful games without a warning in sight? Are we really at the point where some companies are simply beyond reproach because reasons? I just can't rectify the tone policing that is taking place in Pokemon threads with the routine harshness that is tolerated and often fostered/encouraged in threads about other companies.

Speaking objectively, they have cut an absolute shitton of content. They are releasing a barebones title with terrible textures, pop in, animations that would still have been unimpressive two decades ago, horrible frame rates, and loads of cut content compared to prior entries for 50% more money. Any other company would get savaged for this behavior, and rightfully so. A sarcastic hashtag is the tamest fucking thing, and absolutely within the boundaries of what they deserve for the utter shit show that this gen is shaping up to be.
There's some kind of cognitive dissonance happening here, because when you can make blanket statements like "buying Diablo means you don't care about human rights, fuck Blizzard" or call people shills for mentioning that the MTX in Assassin's Creed Odyssey aren't all that bad without warnings but you 100% will get warned for saying #thankyougamefreak... What's up? Is gamefreak not part of a coalition of very rich companies working on a huge entertainment brand with the goal of extracting money from consumers? They didn't suddenly become a huge charitable organization that donates all of those profits to a worthy cause like cancer research or what have you, did they? Why should they be shielded from the same acerbic tone this forum takes with every other capitalist company that pulls some bullshit.

Fuck Konami, fuck Ubisoft, fuck EA, fuck Blizzard, fuck Capcom, but most certainly never EVER criticise GameFreak. Good people are behind making these games and these games only, and we wouldn't want to contribute to any toxicity surrounding this completely unearned, mistakenly maligned game that has no flaws.
If I'm honest, the moderation of this site leaves a lot to be desired. You can't even know which things are ban worthy and which aren't, because it's so inconsistent.

We even had a thread where people were basically saying it was okay if Blizzard developers were harassed, even though they had nothing to do with what happened.

And now using a hashtag sarcastically is a reason to get a warning, because Gamefreak.
 

MarcelRguez

Member
Nov 7, 2018
2,418
You said what I wanted to say in better words thanks
It's weird to me people can't understand the difference. When people are mad at a publisher, they boycott their products and business, it's all faceless. When people get mad at devs specifically, it usually has a much clearer human cost. Hello Games, mentioned above, is a pretty good example of that, those people fell off the face of the Earth after NMS launched for a reason.

People mostly group tpc and gamefreak as one in the same. Regardless, there clearly is a mega defense force for gamefreak.
People love not to make important distinctions when they feel wronged, I've come to learn. I find the defense force annyoing as hell as well, but let's try to understand why people on the other side do what they do without assuming the absolute worst about them, ok?

Never thought I'd end up batting one out for GF of all devs. These threads sure are something.
 

Serif

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,789
I'm still waiting on the receipts of these death threats by the way. They get brought up again and again but nobody can point to them. The only time someone tried, it turned out to be an article about another company where Gamefreak was just mentioned out of context.

People will bring up the false rape allegations against Masuda but I think it's worth quoting this:

Miller said:
Re: Masuda's "rape allegations"

I hate writing this post. I really do. And maybe someone else already has, but I just woke up and I'm still reading through the thread; I'm at page 5 and has this talking point ever made the discourse irritating to drudge through.

On July 2nd, a burner Twitter account under a bogus Japanese name made a broken English accusation of sexual misconduct directed toward Junichi Masuda. The patently absurd story briefly surmised an 8 year long relationship with a man obsessed with the sexual gratification of bugs.

This was not a credible story. This was 4chan's idea of a (heinous, reprehensible) joke just as much about the perceived absurdity of the #MeToo movement as it was about "Dexit." There are posts at /vp/ from the weeks before that point to it being a plan concocted there (as if there was any doubt.)

There were not multiple accusations. No major outlets picked up this story because it was clearly a (shitty, disgusting, indefensible) joke. Even this very clickbait article we're discussing in this thread didn't bring it up.

Please, please let this be the last post we ever make about it. Quote this if you have to. You have to understand that saying "fake rape accusations against Masuda" without any additional context only signal boosts the strike against his character. People will think there MIGHT be something to that accusation. People begin to correlate Masuda's name with something heinous. Please stop.

Furthermore, it's disingenuous to paint this as some concerted effort among "Dexit protestors" for reasons I hope are not worth stating, and also to imply there are multiple "accusations" when there are not. This is an extremely sensitive subject, and it's important to handle it with the care it deserves. Do not flippantly shout "false rape accusations against Masuda" with a blatant disregard for his reputation. I beg you. Sincerely.