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TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,457
The last experience I had with Move Tutors was B2W2, and I was fine with it because you could start out your competitive movesets with the TMs you had (Swords Dance, T-Wave, Sub, U-Turn, etc) until you got the moves from the tutors. The grind for shards was annoying given the RNG nature of the cave drops.

The idea should have been to minimize the grind, not maximize the grind by 1) having to grind for points/Watts to buy TRs, 2) intentionally keeping the good moves behind TR as an artificial way to pad playing time.

And people wonder why hacking is a problem.

The grind for Watts is no different from stuff like Battle Points. They haven't done something like shards for three generations, BP has been the standard since the move to 3D.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,163
I don't think it's what you intended but it annoys me that this is used as an excuse. It was GF's fault that they had no presence on home consoles. The 64 showed that there was an appetite for Pokémon games on home consoles but they basically all but abandoned that market even when it exploded on the wii. It's their own fault they're so far behind the curve. Perhaps they need to stop putting out games yearly and actually take their time and make a game that feels like a true jump forward for the franchise.

That's basically what happened with MH except Capcom gave it the time and budget it needed to be a true step forward and they reaped massive benefits as a result.
But what's the argument to do this when they're reaping massive benefits regardless of what they do? I mean as a consumer it would be nice but eh I can't really fault them if they're successful regardless. Until it reflects back financially I don't see how they're ever going to put in whatever is needed to make people go wow on a new pokemon game again.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,457
I don't think it's what you intended but it annoys me that this is used as an excuse. It was GF's fault that they had no presence on home consoles. The 64 showed that there was an appetite for Pokémon games on home consoles but they basically all but abandoned that market even when it exploded on the wii. It's their own fault they're so far behind the curve. Perhaps they need to stop putting out games yearly and actually take their time and make a game that feels like a true jump forward for the franchise.

That's basically what happened with MH except Capcom gave it the time and budget it needed to be a true step forward and they reaped massive benefits as a result.

With significantly fewer monsters, experience with HD titles in multiple other games, and a considerably larger staff. GF, meanwhile, has to work with what TPCi allows them,
 
Oct 25, 2017
632
I really really wanted to be optimistic about this game but it straight up looks and sounds awful. I love the series but I can't support this mess.
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,409
Gamefreak is flat out releasing an unfinished game people.



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The benefit of the doubt phase should be over. They should be criticized as harshly as Bethesda or EA for this.

Playing on that N64 nostalgia, how shameful.
 

KiNolin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,296
What's with the double standard for pokemon threads vs threads like anthem, fallout 76, etc? Someone explain to me why "criticism/toxicity" is allowed in those but not here? Is it cause this thread has a more delusional defense force being really bothered?

It's because I didn't play Anthem in my childhood, so I have no blinding nostalgia for it that would lead me to corporate cheerleading.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Wasn't permanent TM's universally praised as a good thing?

Just.......why change it?

It's like every time I think they've run out of things that could disappoint me the find a new one.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
The grind for Watts is no different from stuff like Battle Points. They haven't done something like shards for three generations, BP has been the standard since the move to 3D.

No different at the surface level, sure. The methodology is completely different though. As far as I know, grinding Watts is done through Max Raids (which will most definitely take longer on average per max fight), vs. grinding BPs through a Battle Area.

There's no reason why the better competitive moves that were once TMs, are now TRs, other than to artificially pad playing time.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,457
No different at the surface level, sure. The methodology is completely different though. As far as I know, grinding Watts is done through Max Raids (which will most definitely take longer on average per max fight), vs. grinding BPs through a Battle Area.

There's no reason why the better competitive moves that were once TMs, are now TRs, other than to artificially pad playing time.

Battle Areas are fully reliant on developing a win streak to gather enough BP regularly. Dealing with a set value seems more preferable to me.
 

Deleted member 48434

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 8, 2018
5,230
Sydney
I can respect that point of view and don't totally disagree, although under the current system I think the amount of extra grinding competitive players will have to do sort of outweighs the small benefits to the PvE experience.

Maybe a compromise would be recieving an item after beating the League that lets you reuse TRs like TMs?
I think just make TM versions of important moves purchasable post game.
So you can get a single use Earthquake TR during the story, but can buy an Unlimited use one once you finished the story.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
Battle Areas are fully reliant on developing a win streak to gather enough BP regularly. Dealing with a set value seems more preferable to me.

The win streak takes on average like 20-30mins depending on your team set-up, Grinding for the full amount of Watts for 1TR is going to take longer than that, and that's not taking into account whether you need that same move again and again.

The values mentioned ITT also points to the inefficiency of the grind. People are going to waste a lot more time getting the same moves now than they used to in Gen V-VII.
 

crono686

Banned
Jan 21, 2018
133
Nothing in the post text indicates that there is no GTS equivalent. I mean wonder trade is now called surprise trade, so you also will not found wonder trade in the textfiles of the game. Wait till reviews or Friday.
 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
8,035
But what's the argument to do this when they're reaping massive benefits regardless of what they do? I mean as a consumer it would be nice but eh I can't really fault them if they're successful regardless. Until it reflects back financially I don't see how they're ever going to put in whatever is needed to make people go wow on a new pokemon game again.

Monster was also very successful financially before MHW. Pokémon IMO could be much bigger than it is (and has been bigger in the past). Pokémon go has shown the huge potential the brand has. I agree though that whilst the games are still printing money there's not a lot of incentive to change.

With significantly fewer monsters, experience with HD titles in multiple other games, and a considerably larger staff. GF, meanwhile, has to work with what TPCi allows them,

See I'm not into all this deflecting or blame. I'm not trying to blame GF or TPC or Nintendo. I don't know who's fault it is I just want to see the games given the budget and time they deserve like Nintendo's other big franchises have been getting.
 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
8,035
Would you guys be mad if they cut IV's?
I feel like if they did, then breeding would be no longer necessary.
None of you guys actually like breeding, do you?

Hell no. I actually really like breeding and I like that you don't get a party instantly but currently it's all far too cumbersome and discourages playing around with different teams. I like how you can differentiate your Pokémon but right now it feels more like Gate keeping than anything. You always want the exact same IV's it's just whether you're willing to grind it out.
 

Deleted member 17402

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,125
I haven't been into the Pokemon series in a long time, despite beating every iteration except for Black/White 2 and Sun/Moon. I was excited about the prospect of getting back into the series with Sword/Shield. The announced Pokedex cut didn't bother me, so I was still good to go. But now knowing that GTS is gone is a real bummer. At the same time I've been seeing more gameplay videos and it all seems very unimpressive and half-baked.

I have this itch to get back into Pokemon and I don't think these games are going to scratch it. I'm more tempted to replay the older games and maybe Black/White 2 since I never played them before. I might just skip these games altogether.
 

Banzai

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
2,586
I know people hate "genwunners" butting in, but I sincerely hope all this controversy causes some major changes in this series formula. Something big that might bring me back.
 

MrWindUpBird

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,686
No, it's just odd to come into a thread like this and just say how excited you are without talking about the subject at hand.
There's been a new Pokémon thread damn near every other day, with both sides of the fanbase screaming at each other like a bunch of children. It doesn't matter what thread I say I'm excited for the games in, there's always gonna be someone calling me a bootlicker lol. This is why I don't interact with Pokémon fans outside of my small group of friends. It's just a cesspool of negativity no matter where you go, especially on Era.