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Forerunner

Resetufologist
The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
14,806
Eventually the Universe will end, which is always interesting to think about. So, anything that came before us or will come after us doesn't really matter; unless some species discovers a way to transcends this universe (maybe to other or another plane of existence).

On the bright side, it's not really a big deal. You don't remember the 13.8 billions years before you existed, so that same applies after you die. Just close your eyes and count to one, that's how eternity feels.
 

Jombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,392
I think it's innate to want to be remembered for something, but even those you're closest to will move on. If I got killed on my way to work, my carcass would be scrapped off the road as others watched and took videos with their phones and traffic would continue like normal. The biggest impact from my death would be a financial burden, I myself would be very secondary.
 

InspectorJones

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,627
That realization is what helps me keep warding off my depression. In the end it is all meaningless, and I find that insanely comforting.

At times it brings me great comfort when nothing seems to be going right at all; at other times I stress out constantly with the innate feeling that there has to be a greater meaning to everything.
 

Jmdajr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,542
Man. Gonna be a long time before Trump is forgotten.

But yeah. Our Sun will blow up one day and we will be gone long before that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,558
The thing is, I am not convinced that we know as much about these people as we do about those who have written about them

Very true. Though the fact we know their names and at least some snippets about their lives is more than the other 99.99% of humanity that basically never existed.

I realized that in a couple years when my grandparents die, no one else will be around that knew my great grandparents. I never met them and my parents were too young to remember them. It's weird to thing about that people related to me, that were alive when my parents were around, are just a name on a plaque in a countryside graveyard in rural Italy.
 

RLCC14

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,447
If no one will remember me when I'm gone I might as well end it now and spare myself the trouble of living.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,429
Greater Vancouver
hickman_reading_list_avengers1.jpg
 

fade

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,516
Isn't he contradicting himself by bringing these people up in trying to prove his point?
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,098
The final song of Hamilton brought my daughter to tears. She's 10 years old-but she said that this song made her think for the first time about her morality-who will talk about you and pass along your story after you've passed on?

 

Garlador

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,131
If no one will remember me when I'm gone I might as well end it now and spare myself the trouble of living.
Life has value because it is fleeting. The hours of life are a finite resource, and to me that makes them precious.

To wax philosophical, "life" isn't pointless, but it is illogical. There is no reason at all for the chaos of the universe to somehow smash together an organic, thinking, breathing, feeling creature. Yet... here we are, tiny thinking free-willed people hurling through the infinite cosmos on a microscopic speck of dirt spinning through the void at 67,000 mph as culture, history, art, governments, legends, science, religion, and passions rise up and fall away, over and over.

There is no "reason" for life to ever happen, to just "be", and yet... here we are. Here I AM, sharing thoughts of mortality and existence on a miracle of technological advancement, beaming my words thousands of miles away to dozens of strangers I've never seen or met, tied together through chance and mutual interests, at this point, at this time, in the fraction of a fraction of the time our planet has existed. It's overwhelming to break it down.

It's a moment that will not endure... but it's a moment, in the now, that resonates.
 

laminated

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,283
When you visit a cemetery, as I did and do to visit my dad, there will always be a lot of very old, moss covered gravestones. You won't see flowers there. And when you ask the keeper about them, as I did, they'll probably say "Those have been here for a long time. They don't really receive visitors anymore."
 

MetalMagus

Avenger
Oct 16, 2018
1,645
Maine
I mean, their names and vague contributions are remembered. Nobody remembers shit about who they were. Which is arguably worse. They aren't people to us, they're just words.

But I like the phrasing from Conan a lot. Goddamn.

Truth. Yeah, we all know Aristotle's name, but none of us KNOW him. What did he like for breakfast, who did he care for, what was he afraid of? We draw impressions from his writings and what was written about him, but there's nothing remaining of the man.

You have an even stronger case for Jesus, for whom the myth has completely and irreversibly consumed the man.

The best we can hope for is to leave a mark that forever effects civilization - and even in that it's only our name that remains. Sometimes for ill too, how many conservatives are trying to retextualize MLK as a conservative Republican? The man would be outraged, but in death he's lost all agency.

And this, of course, precludes another societal collapse whereby all our records are lost or destroyed.
 

Dreavus

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Jan 12, 2018
1,740
This always reminds me of the old idea of "they're not gone, they live on in our memories" that you hear at funerals and stuff. Which is only really true for a generation or three. And then nobody really remembers much after that.
 

ValKiryuSonicEX

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,263
Conan is right, I've had those kinds of thought for a couple of years (hell I remember that episode of JLU with Amazo/Lex that sparked that kind of thought)...however, at the other end of it, I've also had the thought this shouldn't stop me from trying to live a life, try to help others, or better mankind progress in some way. Time marches forward no matter what might as well enjoy it/put it to good use.
 

Tezz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,269
I heard an amazing idea for a grave from Jake (from Hugo and Jake). He said something like, "Pickle my head and put it atop an obelisk. Then write a fake, epic story about my life in as many languages as you can. I want to be the Rosetta Stone of the future."
 

Br3wnor

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,982
Try to remember the period of time before you existed, the billions of years that passed before you were born. Can't remember shit right? That's what the billions and billions of years that exist after you die will feel like. Absolutely nothing.

Life's too short, make it a party.
 

Deleted member 10726

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,674
ResetERA
Honestly that why I just want my ashes to be spread somewhere rather than getting a grave. I don't think the people that want to remember me need a tombstone to do so, and eventually I'll be forgotten.

And that's okay, after all, death only means returning to the state prior to existing. Being forgotten is a part of that, and eventually we're back at 0, just as we were before our lives began.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,746
If I ever see Calvin Coolidge's grave, I'll be sure to piss on it.

Racist piece of shit.

Conan is right too.

Was curious, went looking:

According to one biographer, Coolidge was "devoid of racial prejudice," but rarely took the lead on civil rights. Coolidge disliked the Ku Klux Klan and no Klansman is known to have received an appointment from him. In the 1924 presidential election his opponents (Robert La Follette and John Davis), and his running mate Charles Dawes, often attacked the Klan but Coolidge avoided the subject.[125]

Coolidge spoke in favor of the civil rights of African-Americans, saying in his first State of the Union address that their rights were "just as sacred as those of any other citizen" under the U.S. Constitution and that it was a "public and a private duty to protect those rights."[126][127]

Coolidge repeatedly called for laws to make lynching a federal crime (it was already a state crime, though not always enforced). Congress refused to pass any such legislation. On June 2, 1924, Coolidge signed the Indian Citizenship Act, which granted U.S. citizenship to all American Indians living on reservations (those off reservations had long been citizens).[128] On June 6, 1924, Coolidge delivered a commencement address at historically black, non-segregated Howard University, in which he thanked and commended African-Americans for their rapid advances in education and their contributions to U.S. society over the years, as well as their eagerness to render their services as soldiers in the World War, all while being faced with discrimination and prejudices at home.[129]

In a speech in October 1924, Coolidge stressed tolerance of differences as an American value and thanked immigrants for their contributions to U.S. society, saying that they have "contributed much to making our country what it is." He stated that although the diversity of peoples was a detrimental source of conflict and tension in Europe, it was peculiar for the United States that it was a "harmonious" benefit for the country. Coolidge further stated the United States should assist and help immigrants who come to the country, and urged immigrants to reject "race hatreds" and "prejudices".[130]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Coolidge#cite_note-FOOTNOTECoolidge1926159–56-134


Also, did you lose an avatar bet?

On topic-- I can see how that would be freeing for a celebrity to realize that and live that way.
 

MDSVeritas

Gameplay Programmer, Sony Santa Monica
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,030
He's spot-on. In the end nobody will remember us (or, if you're a historical figure, people may remember you in a way that is more public perception than human familiarity), and if you pull out to something as objectively tiny as 200 years then you'll be most likely lost to time. And it's something that I think can positively impact how we live our lives and perceive them. There's a Dan Harmon quote I really sympathize with and appreciate on this subject that I often think about:

"Do I agree that nothing means anything? No I do not, because the knowledge that nothing matters, while accurate, gets you nowhere. The planet is dying, the sun is exploding, the universe is cooling, nothing's gonna matter. The further back you pull, the more that truth will endure. But when you zoom in on earth, when you zoom into a family, when you zoom into a human brain, and a childhood, and an experience, you see all these things that matter. We have this fleeting chance to participate in this illusion called 'I love my girlfriend', 'I love my dog', how is that not better? Knowing the truth, which is that nothing matters can actually save you in those moments. Once you get through that terrifying threshold of accepting that then every place is the center of the universe, and every moment is the most important moment, and everything is the meaning of life."
 

Fright Zone

Member
Dec 17, 2017
4,099
London
Who cares if they're remembered or not? You'll be too dead to know either way, it's irrelevant.

Wondering whether you'll be remembered or not is just an ego thing, like imagining how many people would turn up to your funeral (and who hasn't done that?)
 

jeelybeans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
He's spot-on. In the end nobody will remember us (or, if you're a historical figure, people may remember you in a way that is more public perception than human familiarity), and if you pull out to something as objectively tiny as 200 years then you'll be most likely lost to time. And it's something that I think can positively impact how we live our lives and perceive them. There's a Dan Harmon quote I really sympathize with and appreciate on this subject that I often think about:

"Do I agree that nothing means anything? No I do not, because the knowledge that nothing matters, while accurate, gets you nowhere. The planet is dying, the sun is exploding, the universe is cooling, nothing's gonna matter. The further back you pull, the more that truth will endure. But when you zoom in on earth, when you zoom into a family, when you zoom into a human brain, and a childhood, and an experience, you see all these things that matter. We have this fleeting chance to participate in this illusion called 'I love my girlfriend', 'I love my dog', how is that not better? Knowing the truth, which is that nothing matters can actually save you in those moments. Once you get through that terrifying threshold of accepting that then every place is the center of the universe, and every moment is the most important moment, and everything is the meaning of life."

I'm really struggling with the contradictions here and the attempt at seeing beauty. I do generally think when I think of the relationships with my friends and family and the things I do in life I seek and sometimes find value. But thinking about the universe being this big thing where all of that is less than marginal actually conflicts with that value I find.
 

Gaf Zombie

The Fallen
Dec 13, 2017
2,239
Was curious, went looking:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvin_Coolidge#cite_note-FOOTNOTECoolidge1926159–56-134


Also, did you lose an avatar bet?

On topic-- I can see how that would be freeing for a celebrity to realize that and live that way.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/ibram-x-kendi/would-a-president-trump-m_b_10135836.html

President Bush's FEMA response to Hurricane Katrina seemed prompt when compared to President's Coolidge's handling of the Great Mississippi (River) Flood of 1927. While most White communities were saved, riverside Black communities were flooded to reduce the pressure on the levees. And then these thousands of displaced Blacks were forced to work for their rations under the gun of the National Guard and area planters, leading to a conflagration of mass beatings, lynchings, and rapes. Secretary of Commerce Herbert Hoover, who President Coolidge eventually appointed to head the relief efforts, capitalized on southern segregationists' support for his flood mismanagement and succeeded Coolidge in the White House.
President Coolidge also signed arguably the most racist and ethnocentric immigration act in history, an act championed by Republican eugenicists and Democratic Klansmen. The Immigration Act of 1924 was co-authored by Washington Congressman Albert Johnson, well-schooled in theories of "yellow peril" that had rationalized discrimination against west coast Asians for decades. The bipartisan measure further restricted immigration from southern and eastern Europe, severely restricted African immigrants, and banned the immigrations of Arabs and Asians. "America must be kept American," President Coolidge had said during his first annual message to Congress in 1923.
 

TheBaldwin

Member
Feb 25, 2018
8,316
True, 22 and got no idea who clark cable is

But its a super positive thought. At the end of the day, we all die, so stop worrying and do whatever makes you happy and is best for you, because nobody going to care and nobodys going to remember

Reach for the stars and all that jazz
 

Amnesty

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,688
Eventually the Universe will end, which is always interesting to think about.
We don't really know that. Even if there's nothing left at some point, that nothing will still be something, because nothing can't really exist.

But thinking about the universe being this big thing where all of that is less than marginal actually conflicts with that value I find.
You can't actually experience the fullness of the universe. It's not even a 'big thing' that you can compare yourself to, it's more like endless particulars or trying to contextualize yourself against infinity.
 
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MDSVeritas

Gameplay Programmer, Sony Santa Monica
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,030
I'm really struggling with the contradictions here and the attempt at seeing beauty. I do generally think when I think of the relationships with my friends and family and the things I do in life I seek and sometimes find value. But thinking about the universe being this big thing where all of that is less than marginal actually conflicts with that value I find.

The way that I often think of it is this; consider the universe at large. While you may consider human life marginal to something like a galaxy's lifespan over billions and billions of years, it's also worth considering that even on a macro scale, that galaxy has no meaning. Those millions of years it exists? They are utterly purposeless. The universe is big, it lives infinitely longer, but it's not important. You put a human being next to that empty galaxy and the human is more meaningful by an infinite degree, even if they exist for fraction of a margin of an exceptionally small portion of time that galaxy does. Their existence is filled with emotion, relationships, art, curiosity.

There's a great idea posed by a philosopher I once read (Nietzsche I believe, but don't quote me on that) where he mentions that any person has the potential to experience a moment (a first kiss, a heartfelt conversation, an incredible piece of art) that justifies all of existence for the billions of years before it and the immense amount of time afterward. One moment, that is more important than a million supernova's or whatever grand, yet empty actions the universe has in it. We are somehow able to fit into a container that is incomprehensibly smaller an amount of meaning that is inconceivably larger.

That's at least how I choose to appreciate the contrast of our existence within the larger universe.
 

jeelybeans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
The way that I often think of it is this; consider the universe at large. While you may consider human life marginal to something like a galaxy's lifespan over billions and billions of years, it's also worth considering that even on a macro scale, that galaxy has no meaning. Those millions of years it exists? They are utterly purposeless. The universe is big, it lives infinitely longer, but it's not important. You put a human being next to that empty galaxy and the human is more meaningful by an infinite degree, even if they exist for fraction of a margin of an exceptionally small portion of time that galaxy does. Their existence is filled with emotion, relationships, art, curiosity.

There's a great idea posed by a philosopher I once read (Nietzsche I believe, but don't quote me on that) where he mentions that any person has the potential to experience a moment (a first kiss, a heartfelt conversation, an incredible piece of art) that justifies all of existence for the billions of years before it and the immense amount of time afterward. One moment, that is more important than a million supernova's or whatever grand, yet empty actions the universe has in it. We are somehow able to fit into a container that is incomprehensibly smaller an amount of meaning that is inconceivably larger.

That's at least how I choose to appreciate the contrast of our existence within the larger universe.

Thanks for providing that context. It helps make sense of the dichotomy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
614
Newcastle, UK
I don't care if strangers know I exist. The only people I want to remember me, friends and family, will do so. And then they'll be gone and nobody on earth will remember me, but I don't care about any of those people knowing me, I don't know them either.

I don't think that means people ultimately don't matter though. I guess we don't on a univeral time scale, but in terms of humanity and its future most individuals probably underestimate the impact they have.
 
Nov 18, 2017
2,932
There's a great idea posed by a philosopher I once read (Nietzsche I believe, but don't quote me on that) where he mentions that any person has the potential to experience a moment that justifies all of existence for the billions of years before it and the immense amount of time afterward. One moment, that is more important than a million supernova's or whatever grand, yet empty actions the universe has in it.

Incredible to think Nietzsche foresaw the Resident Evil 2 remake over 150 years ago.
 
Oct 28, 2017
419
Who are you and who am I
To say we know the reason why
Some are born some men die
Beneath one infinite sky
There'll be war there'll be peace
But everything one day will cease
All the iron turn to rust
All the proud men turn to dust
So all things time will mend
And so this song will end