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Personally I think the top 10, or rather the top 6, is incredibly disappointing. Only one song that belongs anywhere close to a top 10. The 11-20 bracket is much stronger than the 1-10 bracket. I take comfort in Psycho snagging the 2nd place spot though. Strangely, I am glad %% was the one to beat it instead of Butterfly, despite liking the latter more. While %% didn't impress me, I love their new direction. I'm So Sick was amazing and honestly if %% was a little different I could see myself liking it a lot more.
Thanks for the effort juicyb. Hoping next year we can squeeze in a vote for the best b-sides alongside of the title tracks, or just count all songs.
I ended up making a top 103 list (couldn't make myself cut any more songs). Only made a few changes to the one I submitted for the top 20, none that would have made any difference I believe. Youtube links to the b-sides, since they deserve some attention after being cast aside in favor of title tracks and other songs with music videos.
1. Red Velvet - Psycho
2. Everglow - Hush
3. Dreamcatcher - Silent Night
4. Favorite - Loca
5. CL - +REWIND170205+
6. Twice - Get Loud
7. AOA - Sorry
8. WJSN - As You Wish
9. TXT - 9 and Three Quarters (Run Away)
10. Everglow - Adios
11. Hinapia - Drip
12. CLC - No
13. Red Velvet - Sunny Side Up!
14. Nature - Oopsie (My Bad)
15. CLC - Devil
16. Taemin - Want
17. BVNDIT - Dumb
18. Taeyeon - Spark
19. Weki Meki - Tika-Taka (99%)
20. PinkFantasy - Fantasy
21. Twice - Fancy
22. Taemin - Never Forever
23. Oh My Girl - The Fifth Season (SSFWL)
24. Rocket Punch - Bim Bam Bum
25. WJSN - Let's Dance
26. AOA - Come See Me
27. Wendy - What if Love
28. Oh Hayoung - Don't Make Me Laugh
29. Everglow - Bon Bon Chocolat
30. Mamamoo - Hip
31. Red Velvet - In & Out
32. CLC - I Need U
33. Hwasa - Twit
34. Dreamcatcher - And There Was No One Left
35. Itzy - Want It?
36. Laboum - Oh My
37. Ellie Goulding - Close To Me (Red Velvet Remix)
38. Chungha - Gotta Go
39. Twice - Hot
40. BTS - Boy With Luv (feat. Halsey)
41. Red Velvet - Swimming Pool
42. CLC - Me
43. Oh My Girl - Vogue
44. Weki Meki - Picky Picky
45. Hyuk - Boy With a Star
46. Cherry Bullet - Q&A
47. Taeyeon - Find Me
48. Twice - Trick It
49. Blackpink - Don't Know What To Do
50. IZ*ONE - Hey. Bae. Like. It
51. Twice - Turn it Up
Eyedi - & New
Laboum - Firework
fromis_9 - Fun!
Twice - Breakthrough
Taeyeon - Wine
Red Velvet - Umpah Umpah
Oh My Girl - Bungee (Fall in Love)
BewhY - Gottasadae
Twice - Feel Special
Itzy - Dalla Dalla
Favorite - Hush
Super Junior - Somebody New
Twice - Love Foolish
BVNDIT - My Error
Dreamcatcher - Piri
Rocket Punch - Love is Over
IZ*ONE - Violeta
Taeyeon - Here I Am
High School - Baby You're Mine
SuperM - No Manners
Stray Kids - Side Effects
Sonamoo - We Are Legendary
GWSN - Red-Sun (021)
AleXa - Bomb
Hyomin - U Um U Um
Chungha - Snapping
SuperM - Jopping
WJSN - Boogie Up
Taemin - Shadow
Eden - Again
BVNDIT - Dramatic
Oh My Girl - Case No.L5VE
Oneus - Valkyrie
Limesoda - Wave
Super Junior - The Crown
Super Junior - Super Clap
Ho1iday - Fantasy
Hara - Midnight Queen
CLC - Show
Stray Kids - Miroh
Taemin - Artistic Groove
Oh Hayoung - Worry About Nothing
Oh My Girl - Tic Toc
Blackpink - Kill This Love
Red Velvet - Carpool
Oh My Girl - Gravity
Cherry Bullet - Violet
AOA - Magic Spell
Everglow - You Don't Know Me
IZ*ONE - Highlight
fromis_9 - Love RUMPUMPUM
Cherry Bullet - Really Really
Laboum - Firework
fromis_9 - Fun!
Twice - Breakthrough
Taeyeon - Wine
Red Velvet - Umpah Umpah
Oh My Girl - Bungee (Fall in Love)
BewhY - Gottasadae
Twice - Feel Special
Itzy - Dalla Dalla
Favorite - Hush
Super Junior - Somebody New
Twice - Love Foolish
BVNDIT - My Error
Dreamcatcher - Piri
Rocket Punch - Love is Over
IZ*ONE - Violeta
Taeyeon - Here I Am
High School - Baby You're Mine
SuperM - No Manners
Stray Kids - Side Effects
Sonamoo - We Are Legendary
GWSN - Red-Sun (021)
AleXa - Bomb
Hyomin - U Um U Um
Chungha - Snapping
SuperM - Jopping
WJSN - Boogie Up
Taemin - Shadow
Eden - Again
BVNDIT - Dramatic
Oh My Girl - Case No.L5VE
Oneus - Valkyrie
Limesoda - Wave
Super Junior - The Crown
Super Junior - Super Clap
Ho1iday - Fantasy
Hara - Midnight Queen
CLC - Show
Stray Kids - Miroh
Taemin - Artistic Groove
Oh Hayoung - Worry About Nothing
Oh My Girl - Tic Toc
Blackpink - Kill This Love
Red Velvet - Carpool
Oh My Girl - Gravity
Cherry Bullet - Violet
AOA - Magic Spell
Everglow - You Don't Know Me
IZ*ONE - Highlight
fromis_9 - Love RUMPUMPUM
Cherry Bullet - Really Really
Some thoughts.
My two favorite (active) groups, RV and OMG both disappointed this year. Might sound a little strange since I put Psycho 1st on my list, and with another song in the top 20 and 3 more in the top 50. If I were a little stricter, Psycho could have fallen a spot or two in favor of the two amazing b-sides that occupy the rest of my top 3, due to detracting some points recency bias. Swimming Pool might fall out of the top 50. The 40s to the 60s were a section I struggled with, and spent an unnecessary amount of time adjusting back and forth. Also, Red Velvets title tracks aside from Psycho have been pretty disappointing (for them, Umpah Umpah is good and Zimzalabim is serviceable). Meanwhile OMG had no songs in my top 20, and only 2 in my top 50. Probably their worst year since their debut along with 2017, but in 2017 they only had a single comeback. They've been super active this year, and so has RV, which I think is my biggest issue with these two groups this year. Both have had several comebacks, Japanese promotions and other activities. While we've gotten several great songs from it, I expect more from them.
Some other disappointments this year. Laboum. Not very active, not very good. At this point CLC has pulled far ahead in the battle for my 3rd favorite, while Laboum is being caught up from behind by WJSN and Twice, not to mention monster rookies Everglow. Their only top 50 song this year was a song from an OST from some Kdrama I haven't heard of. Firework is good, but hasn't aged particularly well with me, and even when I liked it more it was still far below their median releases. Also, EXO. Jut like Laboum, not very active, not very good. Obsession sucked. Iirc, I barely gave their b-sides a chance. Even if I might have missed a gem in there, I blame EXO for demotivating me with such a shitty title track.
So who had a good year?
CLC. Active and amazing. 1/3 groups with 2 songs in my top 20. Their 3 comebacks were all varying degrees of great, and all made my top 50. Devil was my favorite before sitting down and going over all songs for this list, but No came out ahead in the end. Aside from their title tracks, with only a single mini album they still had several great b-sides. I Like U and Show are great, while Like It just barely failed to make my top 100. Don't think they can catch up to OMG, but before their career is over, it's very possible that they'll have surpassed 4Minute.
Twice. Like Apink they have finally changed up their sound, and by god is it for the better. Great title tracks, great b-sides, they've had it all this year. None of their songs this year have managed to beat my favorite Twice songs, but overall this year blows all their past years out of the water. Excited for what Twice and their new sound has to bring in 2020.
Taemin. Only a single comeback, but it had an amazing title track and several great b-sides. Can't remember Taemin ever releasing a bad song. He's quietly becoming my favorite solo artist. Meanwhile Dreamcatcher makes the list several this year, mostly thanks to their b-sides. Piri and Deja Vu are pretty great/good, but their best b-sides this year are amazing, Silent night in particular. They also have more songs just outside of my top 100. While they have several great songs, I've always thought they're a little overrated here. This year that love has been earned.
Some thoughts on this years rookies.
First, and far ahead of the pack is of course Everglow. Crashed onto the scene with an amazing debut. While I wasn't too impressed with the b-sides that came with BBC, their first comeback had it all. Amazing title track, and 2 b-sides that are amazing nad great respectively. Really like the members as well. Hoping to see them make it big in 2020.
Hinapia. I am so glad that a small part of Pristin lives on together. Can't believe Pledis managed to once again create an amazing group, and then just leave it to rot. But now my dreams that Minkyung will have a long and illustrious career lives on. Of course one has to be worried with a rookie entertainment agency, but Drip is amazing and gives a good dose of confidence. I like Bada, but can't lie, I wish it was Nayoung or Siyeon instead. Still, beggars can't be choosers.
Rocket Punch. Loved Bim Bam Bum (CGI feline aside). They also had a great b-side in Love is Over. Been watching several of the videos Woollim has been uploading on youtube, and they've got a lot of charm. Disappointed that we have to wait for their first comeback.
BVNDIT. Wasn't really paying attention to them before Dumb. That was dumb of me. Aside from several great and good songs, they seem to be very talented. MNH is on fire these days. Only negative is that the 🐍🐍🐍 from P101 didn't debut with them. MNH cannot get away with locking her up in their dungeon, that is animal cruelty.
Itzy. Dalla Dalla is pretty good, but Want It? should have been the title track instead. Their first comeback disappointed, both title track and b-sides. Aside from that, Ryujins rapping can be a little grating at times. Anyway, always excited for a JYP girl group.
Lastly I just wanna give a nod to ANS. I missed their debut, going back I can see that it wasn't very impressive. But Say My Name is early contender for top 20 in 2020. If we get 20 or more songs that beat it, it'll probably be a good year again. Maybe SMs new girl group will make an appearance?
so weird in here! as a kpop fangirl, it feels like i enter bizarro world!
ye
is so good and is stuck in my head also * ___ *
do ur thang~ do ur thang with me now~
I mean we could do a b-side vote too. I just prefer to keep it to title/mv tracks since even if we include b-sides, the list will always skew towards title tracks.
Separating the lists would be best, but I'd probably keep it to a Top 10 b-sides for the year since I don't expect as many mentions/votes. We could try a test run right now for b-sides.
Separating the lists would be best, but I'd probably keep it to a Top 10 b-sides for the year since I don't expect as many mentions/votes. We could try a test run right now for b-sides.
Now this is a category LOONA can win, because Curiosity is bop of the year.
GFriend is now on Big Hit Labels YT.
Top 10 K-Pop B Sides 2019
1. IZ*ONE - Up
This is one of IZ*ONE's greatest songs, period.
2. Red Velvet - LP
ELEVATOR MUSIC DONE RIGHT
3. TXT - New Rules
4. TXT - Angel or Devil
5. Lovelyz - LOVE GAME
6. fromis_9 - LOVE RUMPUMPUM
7. BTS - Home
8. Red Velvet - Remember Forever
9. X1 - Like Always
10. X1 - I'm Here For You
Top 10 K-Pop B Sides 2019
1. IZ*ONE - Up
This is one of IZ*ONE's greatest songs, period.
2. Red Velvet - LP
ELEVATOR MUSIC DONE RIGHT
3. TXT - New Rules
4. TXT - Angel or Devil
5. Lovelyz - LOVE GAME
6. fromis_9 - LOVE RUMPUMPUM
7. BTS - Home
8. Red Velvet - Remember Forever
9. X1 - Like Always
10. X1 - I'm Here For You
I don't think I know enough b-sides for a top ten. I'm just a basic bitch who mostly listens to singles.
My Top 10 B-Sides 2019:
1. Blackpink - Don't Know What To Do
2. Twice - Love Foolish
3. Red Velvet - Sunny Side Up
4. Loona - Satellite
5. Loona - Where You At?
6. Blackpink - Kick It
7. Gfriend - You Are Not Alone
8. (G)I-DLE - What's Your Name?
9. Red Velvet - Milkshake
10. Red Velvet - LP
1. Blackpink - Don't Know What To Do
2. Twice - Love Foolish
3. Red Velvet - Sunny Side Up
4. Loona - Satellite
5. Loona - Where You At?
6. Blackpink - Kick It
7. Gfriend - You Are Not Alone
8. (G)I-DLE - What's Your Name?
9. Red Velvet - Milkshake
10. Red Velvet - LP
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1. Everglow - Hush
2. Dreamcatcher - Silent Night
3. Twice - Get Loud
4. AOA - Sorry
5. Red Velvet - Sunny Side Up!
6. Taemin - Never Forever
7. WJSN - Let's Dance
8. Red Velvet - In & Out
9. CLC - I Need U
10. Dreamcatcher - And There Was No One Left
Nothing wrong with simply taking a gander at the lists of others and basing it only on that, or just making a little top 5 for example. More participation with little effort > exclusive participation with high effort.
Just remember to pick the songs that I have picked.
Okay my work in progress list
1. Blackpink - Don't Know What to Do
2. Red Velvet - Sunny Side Up
3. ????
Maybe I'll do a deep dive at some point.
1. Blackpink - Don't Know What to Do
2. Red Velvet - Sunny Side Up
3. ????
Maybe I'll do a deep dive at some point.
Glad to see you around lovely spaudaire 💜
Also, I am a kpop fangirl as well (a rarity over here) but only ever really stan girl groups, although I listen to boy groups too. But yeah, I still mostly don't care about them, not gonna lie.
Apologies if it is a little obnoxious of me but I just want to make sure it's alright to do a B-side ranking now...
Yea I have pretty bad anxiety so anytime I do these rankings I feel like I'm taking over the thread.
Doesn't feel like that at all for me, and I have a lot of fun thinking of my ranking :)
a bit of a whiplash when i switch over here from the mainstream socmed for sure XD
it's a very ...uh intense fandom out there, full with passionate fangirls. now some of them can be a bit much, but i still think it's neat-o that a certain niche is commanded by the whims of girl consumers for once :D
hiya ! delphi <3 !!!
in general, most of kpop seems very candypop and i can only ever get to a few groups' tracks, but ngl im more of the boy band fans cuz I guess I got into them from when i was teenager girl days XD;;;;;
Oh me, too, got into Kpop in 2008 or something, but still, always have been way more into girl groups than anything else even back then. To be fair, it's always been this way ever since I'm a child, boy groups have never done anything for me regardless of what pop music I was into :'D
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aaaah, the girl bands sometimes seem so ... idk, like male gazey for adult men audience vibes > __ <
the way they dance and the way they sound, just doesnt appealed to me > __ < (most of the times)
but of course not a blanket condition! thankfully :D i did like crayon pop and blackpink but the boy bands and their fandoms are where a lot of sisterhood* experience has been formed for me :D
*some sisters were a bit much tho XD;;;;;;;;;;;;;; but eh, there's always the intense outliers in any groups, i suppose?
In terms of gaze, they're both aimed at different audiences, so I wouldn't say girl groups are aimed at adult men specifically. As an example, VeriVery recently did "Lay Back", which was a far more sexualized concept than I would've expected for that group.
There's also certain limitations on the types of choreography girl groups are able to perform. They can certainly do the dances and concepts justice:
They generally just aren't allowed to. So, I try not to hold the concepts that girl groups are sort of trapped in act as a negative mark against them. I understand the appeal issue, but urge you to think about the reasoning behind why they have to perform in the manner they do.
That's generally why I listen to both boy and girl groups equally. Both strain against the norms of the industry in different ways.
you're probly right, ofc~
i think i forgot to preface that my take was just how i perceive / feel for MOST of the girl groups music videos (not all, since I did like a few cute ones!) (but most)
i like that video you linked! but is it the few in the many? i feel like most of their visuals are very targeted to please adult men audience... BUT, as i did say, it's not like i didn't try to listen / appreciate both! :D i was just talking about the "in general" rule of thumb of how i find 'em
as for the WHY they have to perform in the manner they do, ... please tell me more! i have heard about problems in this industry previously but am always interested to hear more about it and educate myself further~
To be fair, the same can be said about boy bands who are clearly catered for female audiences down to a T, and have all the markings of masculine heterosexual stereotypes expected to be liked by women. Which is why I rarely vibed with them, although I can on occasion, but it often feels forced to me. I feel like girls bands cater to men and women equally nowadays, any girl group needs a strong fandom to survive, and sadly men don't tend to be very loyal in their stanning, while women do, so when a girl group manages to have a strong following of female fans, this is usually very important for them and their survival in this highly-competitive industry. In that sense, the Kpop industry knows very well how important it is to cater to female fans as well, so I do think they do so overall.
I do believe that the overtly innocent groups cater too much to men at times indeed, which is why it took me years to finally get into Gfriend's whole shtick (and it only happened when they finally matured from middle/high-school themed MVs with "boring Japanese anime opening" music formulas). But I'll also easily fall for cuteness, like a lot of women do, and will endearingly care for a talented group/idol that displays it in ways and amounts that I do enjoy (like Oh My Girl). I actually rejected that whole idea of cute innocent femininity for a long time during my life, because as women, it's what is imposed on us and the whole society expects us to be that, and it's oppressing us and limiting us so damn much to the point we end up rejecting it entirely and go the opposite way (I know I did).
However, upon discovering feminism and studying it, I came to the conclusion that I need to support women expressing all kinds of vibes, from innocent to cute to sassy to flirty to sexy to artsy to badass to aggressive, as long as it's their wish to do so. There are Kpop idols out there that truly behave in innocent and cute ways because that's just who they are. Now comes the question of how much of their personas is pushed by the company and the concept they wanna adapt, and how much of it is them expressing themselves, we'll truly never know. But I do think Kpop has evolved in the past few years, to the point where many girl groups with many different vibes and messages can coexist and thrive peacefully, and I'll be interested in getting to know them and support them all regardless of the vibe they have. And when you see all these different talented women, all having different vibes, belonging to different groups, interacting with one another, befriending one another, supporting and loving one another, it's a truly heartwarming feeling of sisterhood that emerges victorious to me.
Also, many girl groups are very LGBT-friendly in their fandom, mostly thanks to the way idols interact with one another, the Kpop industry knows LBGT people make a good part of the Kpop fandom, (as shown by the fact the Korean pride parade is always playing Kpop bops, among other facts), and companies know about that, and sometimes play along in subtle ways (because Korea itself is still very homophobic anyway so can't be too obvious about it). Many girl groups out there are definitely catering to girls more than they are catering to boys (I mean, Mamamoo fandom is a bastion of lesbians and bisexual girls, for example). Anyway, it's a long conversation to have, and I probably goofed some parts of my explanation, feel free to correct me.
But yeah, support women, listen to their music, buy their albums and go to their concerts, this has been my PSA, thanks. Also at least if I stan only women, I have very little chances of waking up one day discovering the man I stan is a rapist/misogynist asshole/part of a prostitution ring/part of a fraud scheme, to name a few.
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Just copied/pasted from my previous post but added a Queendom song. Best of decade when?
Top 10 B-Sides:
1. NCT 127 - Highway To Heaven
2. Taeyeon - Gravity
3. Twice - Love Foolish
4. Blackpink - Don't Know What To Do
5. Red Velvet - Sunny Side Up
6. Dreamcatcher - Silent Night
7. BTS - Home
8. AOA - Egotistic
9. GOT7 - Thursday
10. Everglow - Hush
Honorable Mentions:
BoA - I Don't Mind
Chung Ha - Chica
CLC - Like It
Sulli - On The Moon
Top 10 B-Sides:
1. NCT 127 - Highway To Heaven
2. Taeyeon - Gravity
3. Twice - Love Foolish
4. Blackpink - Don't Know What To Do
5. Red Velvet - Sunny Side Up
6. Dreamcatcher - Silent Night
7. BTS - Home
8. AOA - Egotistic
9. GOT7 - Thursday
10. Everglow - Hush
Honorable Mentions:
BoA - I Don't Mind
Chung Ha - Chica
CLC - Like It
Sulli - On The Moon
hmm this is all gud~ i think i can appreciate that such space created by girls for girls, but i do think the influences of the companies that run the groups (either gender) is very strong and i admit i have a bit of jaded lens in this
i like cute stuff too :> cuz i guess im naturally very girly idk and growing up in asia, there is a pressure to be harmonious and softsoft? (might just be my locality? idk) (but this was my experience)
when was in high school, i remember the boys were into games and sports and the girls would be spending our money into ...........idols and idols merch XD; it formed a very distinct and memorable part of my life :D as teenage girls we realized that WE were the dominating consumer force, it gave a lot of energy in the fandoms (which can be absolutely crazy) (i mean there are such things as ANTI-fans in asia) (idk) (don't ask me, i can't explain the energy spendy to hate) (it's weird)
im bisexual myself, though more lesbian lately since i've been dating another woman for a decade now, so i can appreciate (and wants to appreciate) if KPOP is indeed growing to cater for less male gaze :) it's a hope! hope is good <3
thank you for inputs, delphi 💖
it's always nice to see how other people experience things :> opens up the world * ___ *~
There's more of them, but they tend to be special stages of the same type, girl group doing the choreography of a famous male group. You'll find them if you pick a girl group and search for their name, plus a popular boy group song. Usually on year-end shows.
Another example is Twice members dancing with Taemin:
You can tell they have a blast when they do them. There's a bunch of different reasons they can't. Korean norms of masculine and feminine . Having to wear heels, another norm, also prevents some of the more complex moves.
oh yesh, i mean i know the thingies, but i was wondering about the elaboration on the WHY but i guess it's just cultural norms in Asia (which i grew up in) (so i totally understands)
I just thought there was an article or some interesting essay that has been written that delved deeper...........
but thank you anyway for the videos <3 i love it when the girl groups are doing less sexualized/dollydolly types of choreo \o/
* on that note about feminine norms, i am just recently rebelling against wearing heels to work cuz it's like 9 hours plus commute and them heels are hurty like nooooo
** but only slightly rebelling. as am still wearing wedges XD;;;;;;;; gosh, one step at a time, tho, am i rite
Well sounds like we are doing it. It will probably just be in list format this time unless demand for a little video becomes apparent.
Kpop ERA, get me those Top 10 B-Sides of 2019 by February 5, 2020 to be included in the final tally!
I don't agree with that statement to be honest. I feel like it's always been a strong stereotype to say that female idols aren't as talented in dancing, precisely because they can pull off amazing and incredibly complex choreography that require a ton of skill and talent, while also wearing high heels. Also, girl group choreography and boy group choreography often tend to require different abilities, and mastering those abilities can be equally difficult for either gender. While male idols are allowed to be more energetic and sharp in movement, this is what they have to master and get good at, female idols have to be extremely precise, as well as move themselves with grace and delicacy that often needs mastering as well. It's roughly like comparing ballet and break dance and deciding that break dance is more difficult and more complex than ballet because it's more energetic and acrobatic, and that... just doesn't sit well with me.
If anything, I've seen plenty of extremely talented female dancers, capable of being as energetic and sharp as male idols are while doing covers of their songs. But I very very rarely see male dancers able to pull off a dance cover of a girl group song with all the grace and all the smoothness and precision required for it, and they often end up making it look like a complete grotesque pastiche of it. Malus points if they wear skirts, wigs & feminine make-up in order to do so, ugh, I fucking hate it when they do that, so goddamn insulting. And they can't dance with heels for the most part anyway, cause that's a goddamn skill too.
Wearing high heels doesn't mean you can't have complex moves, and many girl groups have proved as such. And Yanis Marshall would agree too.
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You went in an entirely different direction then statement indicated.
Heels literally prevent some of the more complex dance moves.
Here's Dreamcatcher dressed for Daydream, but having to perform the more strenuous Chase Me, which they normally perform in flats. Notice what happens.
That has no bearing on the talent of the idols, and is a testament to that talent that they can dance in heels. Again, and more direct: boy groups are able to perform more complex dance moves because they get to wear flat shoes. How you got to "female idols aren't as talented in dancing" is a bit of a perplexing bit for me. There's a reason Loona performs in flats/wedges more often.
has delphi saw bts' coming of age cover? i think they covered the original girl-centric choreography dancey with respect and appreciation, and though there was no full formal recording of the two BTS boys unveiling it at the event (only potato video from fans), i think they didn't make fun of it and was seriously practicing the moves for days to show homage to the original artist who is a woman :>
And they didn't do the dance in skirts/wigs/feminine get-up either, which, I agree, also rags on my nerves when I see it happening > ___ <
this is the video i think but im at work so i could only guess from the title/google search thumbnail as actual yt links are blocked at my office (i have to yt from phone):
Let's be real, female idols could ditch the heels and they'll still be massively hindered by restrictive diets that don't allow for the energy consumption required for repeatedly performing the very high energy routines. It's not merely one thing at play here.
I didn't get to do the main SOTY list, but seeing as it's so female heavy I felt like I should give at least my B-side list:
Top 10 B-Sides:
1. NCT 127 - Highway To Heaven (also probably my SOTY)
2. IZ*One - Up
3. Twice - Rainbow
4. BTS - Mikrokosmos
5. IZ*One - Love Bubble
6. Momoland - Holiday
7. Super M - Super Car (should've had that Mark verse from the teasers!)
8. Pentagon - Fantasystic (has the best Yutodaaaaa)
9. Twice - Trick It
10. IZ*ONE - Highlight
Top 10 B-Sides:
1. NCT 127 - Highway To Heaven (also probably my SOTY)
2. IZ*One - Up
3. Twice - Rainbow
4. BTS - Mikrokosmos
5. IZ*One - Love Bubble
6. Momoland - Holiday
7. Super M - Super Car (should've had that Mark verse from the teasers!)
8. Pentagon - Fantasystic (has the best Yutodaaaaa)
9. Twice - Trick It
10. IZ*ONE - Highlight
Because that's literally an argument I've overwhelmingly seen being thrown at the faces of girl groups for as long as I got into Kpop, in order to discredit girl groups talent overall and diminish them in front of boy groups often elevated and praised for "being more talented". If you didn't mean it that way, fine.
You're still implying that girl group dance choreos that involve high heels can't be as "complex" though, which leads me to believe you have a very narrow definition of complexity, because as I see it, knowing what kind of skills girl groups have to master in order to perform their choreos with all the smoothness, feelings and attitude required, and that those skills are very hard to master, I definitely believe GG choreos are as complex as BG choreos. It's just that their areas of complexity aren't the same. Again, ballet and break dance are both extremely complex dance genres, yet if you ask anyone not versed in dancing which genre they think is more complex to execute, pretty much everybody would say break dance because it looks flashier, but that'd definitely not be true.
Also, interesting that people keep bringing the fact that GG choreos can't be as complex as BG choreos because of heels, while a good chunk of them do not wear them anyway? Groups using heels are usually the ones more on the sexy side, which disqualifies a ton of GGs who just simply don't use them, or use them rather sporadically in comparison. You're bringing up the example of DreamCatcher, who is a group quite talented and capable of delivering amazing complex choreos, but truly, a lot of GG also wear flat shoes and pull off great stuff. You can even have Cheng Xiao tumbling and Somi doing a high kicks, which both are athletic moves, and pull it off like it's nothing. Heck, Cheng Xiao even tumbled while wearing wedges, if that isn't a fucking complex move, then fine, i don't know what is.
And I'd still like to reiterate that no, dancing in heels doesn't mean sacrificing complexity. If someone doesn't know how to do both, it's because they don't know how to, because again, it's a skill:
(Needless to say, the type of heels also matters. Notice the difference of heels between Dreamcatcher's performance where had to take them off (classic cute pumps that leave your ankles unsecured) and the ones in the videos of Hyolin and Yannis Marshall (heeled ankle boots that secure them plenty). One are worn for dance-light performances, the other are worn for dance-heavy ones.)
I appreciate that they are really trying, but I find this cover rather disappointing. I guess it's also because they're rehearsing, but yeah, but it's lacking finesse and feelings to me. Makes me curious to know what the final performance looked like though, cause I'm sure they would have poured more energy and feelings into that one than they did during rehearsals. But they took it seriously, at least.
If I had to take bets, I would think Lee Daehwi would have enough genuine love for girl group choreos, enough talent, and not enough care about what other people would think of him, for him to pull them off with all the rigor, respect and love they truly deserve. I've seen some members of Seventeen and Shinee pull pretty good girl group dance covers too. But a huge chunk of male idols look like gross caricatures most of the time while doing them, they don't take them seriously at all.
Just looking at this video of male idols dancing to girl group choreos, how many of them, when they aren't dancing in ridiculous wigs and skirts, are being taken seriously by the people around them? More often than not, a male idol doing a dance cover of a girl group choreo is done for cheap laughs and ridicule, not to truly honor and artistically express that choreo the way it should be. This is why, for the most part, it is irritating to look at videos like these:
You have Daehwi, Key and some other idols showing genuine love and care while dancing, but for the rest, it's pretty clear people aren't serious about it and it is just done for laughs and entertainment rather than an emotional and artistic cover of those choreos. And that's why girl group choreos are also difficult, they require of you to play a role, to show certain "softer feminine" qualities, and most male idols aren't willing, or simply do not know how to embody them.
In contrast, when you see girl groups doing covers of boy groups and going hard at it, looking masculine and assertive, the reception to them is more akin to respect, surprise and full of people going "wow this is so cool, daebak!". The contrast in reactions is forever going to make me furious, because right there is what subtle sexism looks like.
I know that women are under more scrutiny when it comes down to weight, and that the general public is more likely to notice a huge shift in that regard, but you are deadass wrong if you think that
male idols just do not diet, on top of having to build mass and maintain it through gym. This is pretty weird to believe male idols have "much more energy" to use in their performances than female idols do because they don't diet. A quick google search would show that they, in fact, diet a lot as well.
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Yeah, I wish can see the actual event recording, cuz they seemed to take the choreo seriously!
I do think the choreo for both boys and girls groups should converge more, cuz gender norms limit girls' abilities to show off that they don't have to be delicate and dolly all the time, and they also limit boys' abilities to show off that there is grace and elegance in a boy's body and movement too, just like in the Black Swan video ... the lead dancer is male but he is graceful! and the girls background dancers didn't have to move differently than the boys background dancers, and i think this agender approach to dance choreography would be good for both genders...?
Maybe some roots of the problems is that the choreo for girls and boys are super-gendered, so for me, the girls' choreo seems always to be focus on hand movements around their face and then around their body shapes. Not ALL girl choreos are like this, of course. I found CrayonPop's bar bar bar VERY likeable and VERY cute.
But when the choreo feels (to me) as if they are basically trying to sell the girls' bodies, I switched off . __ . Is it bad?
Imma look up Lee Daehwi and the other names you dropped later at home when I can yt freely :> Thank you for the rec/namedrops <3
I thought I made it quite clear that it was not meant that way.
I'll give you that to a point, as dancing in heels does require more poise and positioning to pull off, making it closer to ballet.
Now the difference in difficulty was noted by one of the 1 Million folks in an interview, but that was, again, on the choreography given itself, not the gender of the performers. And that's in general, not in terms of the most difficult of dances.
Yes, the switch to flats instead of heels is relatively recent (in the last five years, probably since Twice and Gfriend), but the types of choreography given to girl groups is slower to change.
Some on the The Boyz took it seriously, in covering GG's The Boys, but yes, that tends to be the problem with boy group covers of girl group dances.
Yes. But the chances to show off that skill are diminished at times.
With some of the girl group members, you can tell they're straining against being trapped within specific concepts. SinB, for example is a pretty solid example. that does happen with boy groups, but less I find. (Daewhi is a very good example of someone like Taemin, who'd love to do more feminine concepts.) It would be nice if girl groups were allowed to play the field a bit more, because they clearly have a passion for it.
Jihyo notes the desire for a different concept in the Taemin collab.
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