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Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,500
I'm with it but then in 4/8 years a conservative President will undo them with an EO. And we'll go back and forth
Even with that being the case, we would still end up with 4-8 good years, with some of the orders sticking long term as they become norms, like others mentioned. Moreover, it's a better scenario than having a Dem president just stay the course on Trump's shit and letting his successor take things even further down the shithole.

Executive orders are a shitty way of achieving actual lasting progress and in this age of gross executive overreach we should not be looking to them as some kind of good idea.
Yes, true. The nice thing, though, is that it will triage what's broken and stop the bleeding while we work on long term solutions.
 

XMonkey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,827
Yes, true. The nice thing, though, is that it will triage what's broken and stop the bleeding while we work on long term solutions.
Possibly, but I see a problem whereby the public starts thinking that we've now solved something after an EO and agitation/appetite for long-term legislative solutions becomes more of an afterthought as a result.

I think the longer we rely on executive orders to accomplish policy goals the more the public gets accustomed to the idea that that's how things get done and the importance of Congress could get diminished over time and I think it's unhealthy for our democracy if we keep going down this road.

The executive needs some nerfing.
 

BowieZ

Member
Nov 7, 2017
3,972
Can't wait for cries of "EXECUTIVE OVERREACH" from Republicans.
Every single Republican defence is now exhausted and effectively dead.

Republicans and Fox News spitefully polarized the nation ever since 2010, and now Democrats have carte blanche to enact whatever they want however they want.

There just needs to be a leader who has the temerity to act on it rather than fellatio centrism and compromise once again all in the name of "normalcy".

Normalcy is murdered.
 

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
Every single Republican defence is now exhausted and effectively dead.
As if they'll act like like it. I guarantee you if a Democrat wins 2020 and does even 1/20th of what Trump has done with executive orders, we'll be hearing Tucker Carlson cry "THIS IS THE DEATH OF OUR DEMOCRACY!" on Fox Prime Time.

And every. single. viewer. will eat it up.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
This is America now. Presidents aren't kings, they just issue decrees to bypass all the red tape.

Not that I don't love the substance of these proposed orders.
 

BowieZ

Member
Nov 7, 2017
3,972
As if they'll act like like it. I guarantee you if a Democrat wins 2020 and does even 1/20th of what Trump has done with executive orders, we'll be hearing Tucker Carlson cry "THIS IS THE DEATH OF OUR DEMOCRACY!" on Fox Prime Time.

And every. single. viewer. will eat it up.
Yep, but now there is zero good-will left among the entire span of the Democratic party to dignify that bullshit.

Well... unless Biden and/or Buttigieg are that deranged.
 

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
Yep, but now there is zero good-will left among the entire span of the Democratic party to dignify that bullshit.

Well... unless Biden and/or Buttigieg are that deranged.

Don't count on that.



More than half of Democrats will gladly forget everything for the sake of "healing the nation."

PP_2019.01.30_dem-values_0-02.png
 

Zok310

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,628
Yup, do what repubs do and executive order the fuck out of everything, and when they come crying then executive order them from crying😂👌
 

BowieZ

Member
Nov 7, 2017
3,972
Don't count on that.



More than half of Democrats will gladly forget everything for the sake of "healing the nation."

PP_2019.01.30_dem-values_0-02.png

Yeah but that's such a loaded question.

It basically assumes Republicans retain the Senate (or practically do, with a handful of Blue Dogs), which is, of course, most likely at this stage. But if you had taken out the leading phrase "... even if it makes it much harder to get some things done..." and, in the scenario of a sweeping mandate à la Obama in 2009, I imagine there's much greater appetite for decisive policy-making.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,736
Who cares what the people are thinking about as long as the outcome is positive?
.....?

Who cares what "positive" effects it has on well-off people, if it means jack shit to people actually suffering.

Pardoning low level offenders goes directly in hand with decriminalizing, its actually apart of Sanders actual criminal justice policy, expunging records and those already in prison being let off
Now that is excellent, and much needed!
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
With Warren and Sanders pumping out all of these great policy goals, how fucking depressing is it going to be if Creepy Uncle Joe Biden gets the nomination?
 

Krakatoa

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,091
All candidates better have these executive orders ready to go. Also, add investigating all of Trump's illegal activities whilst in office.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,985
It would be amazing if Sanders won and Senate rolls back EVERYTHING they've been trying to give a Republican President and Fox goes back to being a Rule of Law news station, and Republicans on the street have to go back to their social media accounts,, hoping they didn't delete everything they said about how a President shouldn't be able to do whatever he wants when Obama was President, that they deleted when Trump was President, but now have to claim they always believed in, except for that four year window they can't account for.
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
Legalizing weed doesn't mean much of anything unless it comes with blanket amnesty for all the bodies currently serving because of it.

Wrong.

It means you stop the private prison system from filling their human warehouses with non-violent offenders moving forward.

I agree with you that prior non-violent offenders should be pardoned and their criminal records wiped clean but to claim this doesn't mean much if that doesn't happen is entirely false.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
Good reminder of how productive Sanders can be even with the presidency if dems/pubs want to stand in the way of passing his policy proposals.
 

Thrill_house

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,611
Sounds great to me. I hate the power we have given the executive but fuck it enough of this "trying to do things the right way" bullshit
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,736
Wrong.

It means you stop the private prison system from filling their human warehouses with non-violent offenders moving forward.

I agree with you that prior non-violent offenders should be pardoned and their criminal records wiped clean but to claim this doesn't mean much if that doesn't happen is entirely false.
You're right. It's not fair of me to say that it literally doesn't mean "anything" as it does stop the influx. I just hate how some people act like thats the whole solution and preemptively pat themselves on the back.

I'm glad Sanders and his team are more practical with solutions to this problem and actually want to fix things on the ground floor.
 

Sendero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
896


More than half of Democrats will gladly forget everything for the sake of "healing the nation."

PP_2019.01.30_dem-values_0-02.png
That right there, pretty much is the core on which Democrats should be voting in the Primary.

If want to heal&forget, vote for Biden/Buttigieg. Just be aware the message associated: Do the absolutely worst and selfserving during your term, we will still forget you to keep the status quo intact.
(which incidentally, is what being a Conservative is.)

If want to push Dem priorities, vote Sanders/Warren. Just be aware the message associated: Push for action, now. Whatever gains you get, is better than what we have, now. Also, law&order.
(which incidentally, is what being USA Conservative supposed to mean in the past, but only in words).
 

Freakzilla

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
5,710
This is what I've been saying. Do it all by executive order. Then when Republicans try to literally take it all back, all hell will break loose.
 

inner-G

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,473
PNW
.....?

Who cares what "positive" effects it has on well-off people, if it means jack shit to people actually suffering.
If they legalize it and expunge records, why does it matter if people vote for it just because they want to get high?

And why do you think the effects would only help well-off people? They're not typically who is arrested for weed
 

Tremorah

Member
Dec 3, 2018
4,951
Heres hoping people will see that list and believe it can actually happen and go and vote
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,432
The one thing I'd really love on a personal level would be student loan forgiveness and absolution. It's the one thing I think he won't be able to do because too many higher ups will stop being able to be rich on the misery of the youth of the nation, but hey, I'd love it.
 

Rran

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,502
As if they'll act like like it. I guarantee you if a Democrat wins 2020 and does even 1/20th of what Trump has done with executive orders, we'll be hearing Tucker Carlson cry "THIS IS THE DEATH OF OUR DEMOCRACY!" on Fox Prime Time.

And every. single. viewer. will eat it up.
This, sadly. I mean, w/ all the trivial shit they complained about regarding Obama, you'd think whoever the next Republican president was going to be would have to play their part perfectly.
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
You're right. It's not fair of me to say that it literally doesn't mean "anything" as it does stop the influx. I just hate how some people act like thats the whole solution and preemptively pat themselves on the back.

I'm glad Sanders and his team are more practical with solutions to this problem and actually want to fix things on the ground floor.

Fair enough and I agree with you that getting those people out of prison should be a priority. The idea that we have non-violent offenders doing literal life for selling weed is bonkers.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
I'm with it but then in 4/8 years a conservative President will undo them with an EO. And we'll go back and forth

It will still be much harder to recind these things, because implementing them through EO will give the public years to appreciate the reality of them. That will make it harder for the Republican running to win if he's blatantly signalling he will undo these.

As they become the norm it will be easier to then get legislation worked on. Canada basically runs on majorities being able to rule by decree, and that reality is very much in the parties and voters minds when it comes to voting.
 

Damaniel

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,535
Portland, OR
Add one to unilaterally reverse every Trump executive order on day one, and I'll be fully behind him. Those proposals are definitely good starts though.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
Don't count on that.



More than half of Democrats will gladly forget everything for the sake of "healing the nation."

PP_2019.01.30_dem-values_0-02.png


This is why it's so important to redefine the country with a Sanders/Warren Presidency. We have to offer better alternatives than meeting the Republicans part way at best.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,413
I got an associate on my FB timeline with the first "It's worrying that Sanders is polling so high, I may have to vote 3rd party to stop the economy from being destroyed by this socialist" take of the year.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,357
Day one of a dem presidency is going to be such a busy news day. We'll be eating good.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
Add one to unilaterally reverse every Trump executive order on day one, and I'll be fully behind him. Those proposals are definitely good starts though.

He has already promised that if I recall. One of the defining difference seems between Sanders and Biden is that Biden has said he will only use EOS to reverse Trumps, and has mocked the notion of using them elsewhere to help people as soon as possible.



The notion that Biden will deliver a better downticket is one hell of a hypothetical. The reality is that he is more likely to deflate turnout, BUT even if we assume he wouldn't,? A majority is no foregone conclusion, but Sanders has an actual plan in place beyond 'hope we take back the other branches'.
 
Oct 30, 2017
8,706
Trump has done enormous damage with his executive powers. What a President will do with his/her executive power is extremely important.

All of these options need to be on the table.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
Trump has done enormous damage with his executive powers. What a President will do with his/her executive power is extremely important.

All of these options need to be on the table.

Yeah there's no putting that genie back in the bottle. It has to be a part of the process moving forward or it will solely be used by the right.
 

Mr. Wonderful

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,291
The problem is, both Warren and Sanders have even more expansive views of executive power under executive orders. At some point in the next Democratic presidency, we need to actually pass legislation reducing executive power, including executive orders.

I'd honestly be happy if Bernie took like 3 months where he had unlimited executive powers, and then work with Congress to pass an extension of HR1.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,357
Here's the thing. It doesn't matter if the next dem does all this through EO or the legislature. The next Republican will have no problem undoing as much as they can through EO whether it's legal or not as long as they have Congressional backing.