• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Penny Royal

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
QLD, Australia
heavy_metal_paradroid_01.gif
heavy_metal_paradroid_06.gif


Best game.

For sure.

Andrew Braybrook was a legend-tier C64 developer.

Gribbly's Day Out
Paradroid
Uridium
Alley Kat - enhanced perfomance on the C-128!
Morpheus
Rainbow Islands - I spent ages in their offices on the freeplay arcade machine they had while writing it :)

bishoptl - were you a Hubbardista or Galwayite? I generally gravitated towards Martin's sawtooth synth sounds, but the Delta game-theme (a mashup of Pink Floyd and Phillip Glass) is my all-time favourite C64 tune.
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Mayhem in Monsterland was a remarkable achievement.

Unlike the NES and Kirby in particular, they couldn't use add-on chips to enhance visuals. Everything had to be accomplished with the hardware they had.

There's a neat interview about the game, too.
https://commodoreformat.wordpress.com/andy-roberts-mayhem-at-20/


Actually, clever C64 programmers did have access to non-stock hardware that they could reliably expect C64 owners to have, but Meyhem in Monsterland did not use it. The Floppy Disk Drive for the C64 could be used as a general purpose co-processor for C64 games and demos.

An example of a demo using the 1541 as a math co-processor:

http://csdb.dk/release/?id=820
 

McNum

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,186
Denmark
The music chip for the C64 is one of the best example of overkill in hardware. It didn't need something that good, but it has it and it's amazing. Though that is very much in part to some ridiculously clever programming where it's taken so far beyond what it was designed to do that, well... stuff like this happens:



Like, what the hell? Stock C64, too. Technically, the SID cannot use samples. But that limitation was overcome decades ago. This, though... gotta love the demoscene. I kind of want to know how they did that, but I'm pretty sure the explanation would just go over my head. "Black sorcery, then Prodigy." or something.
 
Dec 31, 2017
627
Virginia
I had a 64GS for a bit it was a great idea, but they barely advertised it. Not sure what they were thinking.

At least Atari advertised the Xegs
 

Deleted member 12790

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
24,537
Technically, the SID cannot use samples. But that limitation was overcome decades ago. This, though... gotta love the demoscene. I kind of want to know how they did that, but I'm pretty sure the explanation would just go over my head. "Black sorcery, then Prodigy." or something.

There is a register in the SID chip that affects the volume output. Every time 1 of 4 bits of this register are changed, it produces a staticy audible clicking noise, with 4-bit resolution. By alternating between clicking noises fast enough, you can modulate sample sounds. The effect is similar to when you watch a hubcap on a car's wheel spin:

spinner2.gif


Eventually, the changes are so great that we stop seeing the individual spins and instead the hubcap looks like it's spinning slower (or sometimes backwards) to our eyes. This is because the refresh frequency is so great that we actually see new information. Similarly, the frequency of the audio clicks if produced fast enough sound like different sounds.

It's a similar to how they play music on floppy disk drives:

 

DECK’ARD

Creator of Worms
Verified
Nov 26, 2017
4,740
UK
Just realised there's no mention of the great Jeff Minter in this thread so far, and this must be corrected.

revenge_of_the_mutant_camels_01.gif

sheep_in_space_01.gif


hover_bovver_01.gif


He's the first person who really opened my eyes to clever gameplay ideas. Some really off the wall stuff as well, literally in the case of Ancipital with the 4-way wall jumping,

And Hellgate, a shooter where you controlled 4 ships at once:



Nearly melted my young brain trying to play that.
 
Last edited:

joeblow

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,928
Laker Nation
The Ron Hubbard music track for International Karate was insanely good. It was one of the first songs - in any medium, let alone a game - that gave me chills when I first heard it. Listening to it again in the video below reminds me of how fantastic Hubbard was as a musician. The rhythmic build up towards the free-flow payoff in the 6:20 to 7:20 section is the jam to this day. Here's the entire piece:




The video below is an amazing acapalla rendition of the first half of his track by a Swedsh group a number of years back. Those of you who are a little PC sensitive may just want to listen to the video instead of watching it though.

 
Last edited:

DECK’ARD

Creator of Worms
Verified
Nov 26, 2017
4,740
UK
If I saw Rob Hubbard's name on the back of a box, I bought it.
 
Last edited:

Freddo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,639
Småland, Sweden
I have very fond memories of playing on the C64 back in the mid-80s, but barely played anything since 1987 when my father sold the C64 and bought an Amiga. So I look forward to revisit a few games soon when The C64 Mini is released in March.
 

Pixel Grotto

Member
Oct 27, 2017
894
I'm actually a little too young to have really experienced the C64 at its heyday, but I've gotten to know the system in the years since due to my fascination with The Last Ninja games. Originally played the first one on PC with my brother back in the day, and god was the port awful. Also, it didn't have the incredible Ben Daglish score, which is half of the reason why The Last Ninja is worth playing.



The second game only amped the soundtrack up to further levels of awesomeness. Thanks, Matt Gray.

 

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
Thumps Up for Zamzara OP. Loved the game as a kid and sometimes just loaded it up to listen to the theme.

 

McNum

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,186
Denmark
There is a register in the SID chip that affects the volume output. Every time 1 of 4 bits of this register are changed, it produces a staticy audible clicking noise, with 4-bit resolution. By alternating between clicking noises fast enough, you can modulate sample sounds. The effect is similar to when you watch a hubcap on a car's wheel spin:

spinner2.gif


Eventually, the changes are so great that we stop seeing the individual spins and instead the hubcap looks like it's spinning slower (or sometimes backwards) to our eyes. This is because the refresh frequency is so great that we actually see new information. Similarly, the frequency of the audio clicks if produced fast enough sound like different sounds.

It's a similar to how they play music on floppy disk drives:


I know that one, it's what Turbo Outrun uses:


But I'm not sure this is what's happening in the Prodigy video. It's too clean for 4-bit samples and the comments talk about using 12-bit samples. Which has to be done some other way. Seems like I've read something where they feed samples into the SID channel and then use the modulations on it afterwards. That would most certainly come in handy for that.

And that's why I'm thinking it's beyond me. Tapping the volume to create an error sound on purpose? I get it. This... I don't get it.
 

Thekeats

Member
Nov 1, 2017
651
I started on the C64 little brother the Vic20. With my first gaming experiences being Blitz (clear a landing zone by bombing buildings) only 1 key was used. The space bar. And hopper (guess which arcade game that was a rip off of).

I ended up with an Electron before i moved on to the C64 (still love Repton to this day). Its where my love of CRPGs comes from. Playing the old D&D games, the bards tale and so on.

But i loved Ocean. Maybe its rose tinted glasses. But i have fond memories of there movie licences like The Untouchables, Robocop and Batman.

One thing i miss from those days is the old Compilation collections. Pay £9.99 and get £40, £50 or £60 worth of games. It didn't matter that some where a year or two old. That was several months worth of solid entertainment.

It probably explains why, to this day, I prefer PC gaming.
 

Deleted member 33515

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 17, 2017
528
despite everything, here's my fave C64 game:
KgL99tc.gif



I've started working in the late eighties writing reviews for and editing an italian C64 magazine, so I've probably gone through the entire C64 library, but if I have to single out the game that made me fell in love with the old breadbin, that game will have to be H.E.R.O.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
despite everything, here's my fave C64 game:
KgL99tc.gif



I've started working in the late eighties writing reviews for and editing an italian C64 magazine, so I've probably gone through the entire C64 library, but if I have to single out the game that made me fell in love with the old breadbin, that game will have to be H.E.R.O.
Cool! Couldn't have a better background as a gamer from my point if view! :) Are you still a reviewer?

My favorite game is The Last Ninja, it was so ahead of everything else at the time of the release, remember it getting all kinds of rewards in the magazines, I've played through it so so many times. Last time I played through it was actually on the Wii through Virtual Console controlling it with an arcade stick. Made me tear up when starting it, it felt so unreal to see the game purchasable on a modern Nintendo console and being able to play it with a joystick :)
 

Mudface90210

Member
Oct 29, 2017
142
I had an Atari 800XL back then, but there was a lot of crossover in games with the C64 probably until 1985/86 when a lot of the bigger publishers sadly dropped the Atari 8-bit line. Most of my friends at school had C64s, and I remember getting them into Encounter and Mercenary (both by Paul Woakes), Necromancer and Alley Cat (both by Bill Williams), MULE, Shamus 2 and Dropzone (by Archer MacLean). All were pretty astonishing and way ahead of their time. In an echo of today's Digital Foundry comparisons, we did spend quite a bit of time comparing the Atari and C64 versions....
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,947
My family used to have a Commodore 64 when I was super little. The earliest video game I remember playing was Centipede for that console.
 

Deleted member 33515

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 17, 2017
528
Cool! Couldn't have a better background as a gamer from my point if view! :) Are you still a reviewer?

I still write a bit about games for an Italian website but I do it rarely. I'd like to do it more but my real job (gaming localization) eats most of my waking hours...

My favorite game is The Last Ninja, it was so ahead of everything else at the time of the release, remember it getting all kinds of rewards in the magazines, I've played through it so so many times. Last time I played through it was actually on the Wii through Virtual Console controlling it with an arcade stick. Made me tear up when starting it, it felt so unreal to see the game purchasable on a modern Nintendo console and being able to play it with a joystick :)

I routinely buy C64s to be able to hook them up wherever I go and because I love them... but from time to time I can't resist and launch VICE just for a quick go or a failed attempt on SID-Wizard!
 

gizio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
61
I still have fond memories of Nebulus / Tower Toppler from Hewson. C64 was a beast
 

Slacker247

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,063
The best thing about this? Parents telling us we have half hour to play... Except the cassettes took that long to load! But I see this "fast load cart" someone mentioned above? What...is that?

Anyway, we loved Flimbo's Quest, Buggy Boy and some shooter I can't remember and have been trying to find, but I feel it looked miles better in my head than any screen I can find...

Fiendish Freddy's Big Top 'o Fun was also something we played a lot due to it being on cart, thus no loading and multiplayer. Sod that diving challenge where you turn into a turd if you flop!

We also had The Last Ninja Remix. Hard as balls. But that music. One of the first music themes I really got into. Music on the C64 was top tier anyway, from Flimbo's Quest to even the loading screen music on cassette games.

We even had SFII on it. The things we had to endure for not being allowed a SNES. Truly awful. Truly memorable...

Good times though. Was our first home game system (because it could be used for "homework" hyuk hyuk).
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
My first gaming machine.

Most games released for the C64 have absolutely not stood the test of time. It was an era of true experimentation and game designers themselves were learning the ropes. I'd say Karateka, Bruce Lee and Space Taxi were my favorite games back in those days.

What has stood the test of the time is the wonderful SID chip.





Tim and Geoff Follin - Gauntlet III
Tim Follin - Ghouls 'N Ghosts (Stage 1)

Jeroen Tel - Supremacy

Jeroen Tel - Myth
Jeroen Tel - Cybernoid 2

Martin Galway - Arkanoid
Martin Galway - Wizball

Rob Hubbard - Commando
Rob Hubbard - Skate or Die

Chris Hülsbeck - R-Type
Chris Hülsbeck - The Great Giana Sisters

Matt Gray - The Last Ninja 2

Also I gotta say, watching these oscilloscope renditions is mesmerizing. Feels like I'm seeing the music somehow.
 
Last edited:

Boyzi

Member
Nov 10, 2017
12
My favourite gaming machine of the 80's by a landslide. Personal highlights would have to be;
Emlyn Hughes International Soccer; Microprose Soccer; The Last Ninja; Armalyte; IO; International Karate; Barbarian; Arkanoid & Spy vs Spy...to name but a few
 

Planet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,358
Great choice of quality games here, but music has always been a great part of the enjoyment. The C64 had some very good soundtracks, and nobody mentioned Cybernoid (2) yet. Both games featured decent shooting gameplay, good graphics and amazing music (especially the second game). They skipped sound effects in favor to richer music, and that was super effective. :D





DISCLAIMER: I have fond memories, but I am not a retro gamer. I don't think any of these games are worth playing beyond a bit of nostalgia anymore these days.
 

Deleted member 33515

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 17, 2017
528
The best thing about this? Parents telling us we have half hour to play... Except the cassettes took that long to load! But I see this "fast load cart" someone mentioned above? What...is that?

there were a lot of solutions to speed up loading from a disk drive - Speed DOS, which required a modified disk drive, or fast loading cartridges (Final Cartridge off the top of my head, but there were several). The difference was incredible, although they only helped disk drive loading and couldn't help with cassette. There were tape solutions as well but they mostly worked with bootleg (copied) software.
Anyway, we loved Flimbo's Quest, Buggy Boy and some shooter I can't remember and have been trying to find, but I feel it looked miles better in my head than any screen I can find...

you can try describing it, it's almost a trope of retro threads, "I remember a game...". I couldn't remember the title for The Castles of Doctor Creep and resorted to this, you can always count on someone else's memories!
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
there were a lot of solutions to speed up loading from a disk drive - Speed DOS, which required a modified disk drive, or fast loading cartridges (Final Cartridge off the top of my head, but there were several). The difference was incredible, although they only helped disk drive loading and couldn't help with cassette. There were tape solutions as well but they mostly worked with bootleg (copied) software.


you can try describing it, it's almost a trope of retro threads, "I remember a game...". I couldn't remember the title for The Castles of Doctor Creep and resorted to this, you can always count on someone else's memories!
With The Final Cartridge III you could make a freeze save for cassette games, it was like a save state, after loading a relatively small file everything started exactly like it was when you pressed the cartridge button, very useful, I used that a lot both for games with long load times (if I didnt have it as a "backup") and for floppy games if I wanted a save at a particular moment.
All in all, TFCIII was awesome. You had a workbench like GUI too with lots of great functionality for floppy drives. I still have my original cartridge from like 1987 working perfectly.
 

Deleted member 11018

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,419
The best thing about this? Parents telling us we have half hour to play... Except the cassettes took that long to load! But I see this "fast load cart" someone mentioned above? What...is that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epyx_Fast_Load

That one was a godsend when it worked :) Full of pretty convenient stuff as well, a bit like PCTools on PC.

I loved the C64, it's the machine on which i first used an assembler language, compiled code by hand (pen and paper) and insert the machine code in hexa in a machine language monitor to run my homebrews.... loved that era...
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
I still write a bit about games for an Italian website but I do it rarely. I'd like to do it more but my real job (gaming localization) eats most of my waking hours...



I routinely buy C64s to be able to hook them up wherever I go and because I love them... but from time to time I can't resist and launch VICE just for a quick go or a failed attempt on SID-Wizard!
That's great that you're still working in the industry, lots of respect for sticking around all the way from the 80's and not abandoning the hobby like so many others. I take it you're in the 40's by now? I'm 41 myself, so many people have said over the years that I should quit gaming but I've been here gaming for over 30 years now and I won't ever quit. Just love retro gaming. I try to pass forward my love for these old games to my kids as well now, it's actually going quite well, the catchy tunes help a lot, kids love the melodic SID tunes :)
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
I had the Warp Speed cart. Thing was just amazing. Games loaded nearly immediately, and it even came with a user interface where you could select programs from a list instead of using command lines.

22070956_538023433205575_3930084702941085696_n.jpg
 

Planet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,358
I had a floppy disk drive right from the start, only saw tapes at some of my friends in the early days, but they quickly upgraded too.

Later, I had a hardware fastloader solution installed, don't remember the name, but it was the fastest around, loaded anything almost instantly. It wasn't just a cartridge, IIRC it required hardware modification. Copying disks was so fast, you could hardly keep up swapping disks back and forth. XD
 

Outrun

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,782
Delta Armalyte was a cool shooter.

The first game I played on the C64 was Thing on a Spring.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,047
God I loved this machine. It birthed my love for the medium. I remember getting a used c64 for christmas, complete with somewhere around 10 cassettes of pirated compressed games. Such a cool feeling just trying game after game, not knowing what they were (don't judge, I was a child and didn't know better!). It felt like exploring another dimension of weird, unpredictable games.

The games got really cheap as the market for them slowly died, I bought bundles of them fairly late in the computers lifespan and still have a box in the attic with my c64 and around 200 games.

II6I6.GIF

Laser squad was the direct ancestor of xcom, and it was glorious in multiplayer!
 

Slacker247

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,063
there were a lot of solutions to speed up loading from a disk drive - Speed DOS, which required a modified disk drive, or fast loading cartridges (Final Cartridge off the top of my head, but there were several). The difference was incredible, although they only helped disk drive loading and couldn't help with cassette. There were tape solutions as well but they mostly worked with bootleg (copied) software.


you can try describing it, it's almost a trope of retro threads, "I remember a game...". I couldn't remember the title for The Castles of Doctor Creep and resorted to this, you can always count on someone else's memories!

Oh crap I found it! Lightforce!


We had a few dud games - they just never worked or wouldn't go past the title screen. Chase HQ crashed so often and it was hassle to get it going,being on cassette. Barbarian was similar. I remember Spy vs Spy, too but never quite got it. And Sphinx? Came with one of the C64 magazines.
 

Watership

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,116
Dad brought the C64 home, instead of the ColecoVision Adam. I really wanted the Adam. I was super pissed. 1 day later, I was hooked. Commodore Soccer and Beach Head all summer. I loved that machine. I still used the 1702 Monitor into the late 90s.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,667
The Milky Way
I know that one, it's what Turbo Outrun uses:
.

I remember my mind being blown when I got Turbo Outrun for the C64 and it had that incredible music - easily my favourite version of the Outrun theme.

It still sounds great now! And it's like a full 12" length track too with an awesome breakdown in the middle. Insane to think that music is being generated by a home computer released in 1982 :o

Check out the Bionic Commando music on the C64 too which used variable band pass filter effects long before they became a big thing in electronic music.
 

Slacker247

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,063
I remember my mind being blown when I got Turbo Outrun for the C64 and it had that incredible music - easily my favourite version of the Outrun theme.

It still sounds great now! And it's like a full 12" length track too with an awesome breakdown in the middle. Insane to think that music is being generated by a home computer released in 1982 :o

Check out the Bionic Commando music on the C64 too which used variable band pass filter effects long before they became a big thing in electronic music.

How could I forget! One of my favourite games on C64. Still find it strange a Sega game was on C64. Oh well! Such a good game!
 

BorganXI

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,904
WA
We had one growing up. My family played the heck out of winter and summer Olympic games. I played a lot of ultimate wizard, Montezuma's revenge, and a helicoptor game where you had go around and rescue people.

Had a ton of games on it, I think a friend of the family put a ton of stuff on there, but a lot of them didn't work correctly or load up. I remember some games taking 20+ minutes, and I wouldn't know if it froze up or not. Had no clue what to to really do in a lot of them.

Wish we had kept it, would have loved to revisit it older and tried to play through these games again.
 

7threst

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,297
Netherlands
Uridium, Hard 'n Heavy, Last Ninja I, II & III, Giana Sisters, Platou and Green Beret made up my youth. Such an amazing machine and of course the SID-chip, as the first advanced musical chip.
 

Boy Wander

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,126
UK
Ah, the good old C64. My cousin had one whereas I had a Speccy. C64 was the superior machine technically - I was extremely jealous of it's sound capabilities but of course kept that quiet.

Some games that I remember fondly:

Anything by Ocean just for the loading music, but especially Rambo, Mikie, Batman the movie and Robocop.
Last Ninja Series
Dragons Lair 1 & 2
Monty on the Run
Impossible Mission
Leaderboard Golf
The 'Games' series, especially California Games and World Games.
Budget titles in the UK - Kickstart and Action Biker.
 
Dec 17, 2017
234
As a ZX Spectrum owner I was always a bit envious of C64 owners and their fancy full colour graphics. Then a friend got a disk drive for his C64 along with the Bard's Tale and the envy turned to jealousy!

Edit: Oh, and Emlyn Hughes' Soccer (C64) gave Matchday 2 (ZX Spectrum) a real run for its money. Tournaments for days!