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Sandfox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,743
5457491-7672955061-xavie.jpg
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,402
So like there was a bunch of Tim Drake talk earlier aboit DC not knowing what to do with him

Look, it's real simple

No one wants to write him. It's not editorial. I mean it is, but it isn't. Editorial is trying to put him somewhere, but no one wants to write him. Tynion did, and gave him a perfect thesis and capped it off. Bendis clearly does, and continued it through not in the best way when carried out, but in a way that made sense initially (I have not read YJ this week but I know what happens ish).

But who else has shown any actual Desire for the character? Not Tomasi or Snyder, the other two big Bat writers. Percy seemed to have a lot of enthusiasm but was denied and left because of it. I mean, no one gives a fuck about Tim, and as such there is no one to give Tim an arc. In reality there aren't a lot of fans of the Bat family writing at DC right now. Specifically Robin, but that's a whole separate line of thought.

I don't think its true at all. Tynion has even stated how he wants to write & he almost had a chance to write a Red Robin solo, but because Red Hood & the Outlaws needed a new writer, he got shifted onto that instead.

Percy like you said - denied. So there's two big writers, who want to write for Tim and were denied. It sounds like the problem is more DC Editorial tbh.

Beyond that - I'm not sure how I'm suppose to gauge writers interest in Tim Drake. I don't know how many writers want to write for Jason Todd, or Damian Wayne, or Duke Thomas, etc. All we know are writers have pitched/tried to write for Tim Drake and weren't allowed to.
 

Vordan

Member
Aug 12, 2018
2,489
Okay but for real Wildgoose is legit and I really like him

You and I get along so well

Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the Hellmouth crossover, and the current Willow mini. Seven Secrets. Translucid.

Secret Avengers by Ales Kot and Walsh (I think)
Jessica Jones by Bendis and Gaydos
Translucid by Chondra Echert and Claudio Sanchez

Namor
Doom
Octavius
Fisk
Creel
Titana
Kraven
Maximus
Loki

Like that's your potential good guy team.

Not even gonna bother laying down the potential X characters
Solid list but I think having one villain from each of the core Avengers Rogues or a parallel (and given its Marvel I would be forced to use the MCU lineup) would be better. So my choices were:
Mandarin (Iron Man) as the Lex Luthor leader
Baron Zemo (Cap)
Abomination (Hulk)
Taskmaster (Black Widow)
Bullseye (Hawkeye)
Loki (Thor)
Killmonger (Black Panther)
Baron Mordo (Dr. Strange)
Venom (Spider-Man, I know he's not evil but Brock teaming up with the freaks would be a cool idea)
It's one thing to think you couldn't do a Forever Evil type story with Marvel villains but I don't think that makes the villain roster necessarily weaker.
"Weaker" was probably a bad term. It's not that I think the Marvel villains don't have potential, they do. I just feel like Marvel has totally wasted an opportunity to push them more. The MCU has done wonders to elevate the profile of a lot of Marvel heroes, I wish their Rogues would likewise be pushed.
What exactly is precluding a Marvel version of Forever evil? Cause i honestly don't see anything.
I want to see it. A villain vs. villain event would be a breath of fresh air after all these hero vs. hero events.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
19,119
specific rivals would be lame. Like nobody wants to read about Mandarin, Bullseye and Abomination on a team.
 

Vordan

Member
Aug 12, 2018
2,489
I don't think its true at all. Tynion has even stated how he wants to write & he almost had a chance to write a Red Robin solo, but because Red Hood & the Outlaws needed a new writer, he got shifted onto that instead.

Percy like you said - denied. So there's two big writers, who want to write for Tim and were denied. It sounds like the problem is more DC Editorial tbh.

Beyond that - I'm not sure how I'm suppose to gauge writers interest in Tim Drake. I don't know how many writers want to write for Jason Todd, or Damian Wayne, or Duke Thomas, etc. All we know are writers have pitched/tried to write for Tim Drake and weren't allowed to.
Multiple writers including Snyder, King, Tynion, and Seeley have pitched a "Robins" series where Dick, Jason, Tim, and Damian team up. DC keeps vetoing it. The higher ups were absolutely clueless about what would sell. Hopefully something good will come from the purges and the new people wont be so hard on Tim and the other younger characters.
why wouldn't you use Leader here? why would you use Loki and not Moonstone?
Hah would you believe I actually did have Leader here? I ended up picking Abomination because it felt redundant to have two super geniuses with Leader and Mandarin on the same team. But Leader would be a great pick as well, and if I couldn't use Mandarin I would totally have him lead (heh) this team.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,519
So like there was a bunch of Tim Drake talk earlier aboit DC not knowing what to do with him

Look, it's real simple

No one wants to write him. It's not editorial. I mean it is, but it isn't. Editorial is trying to put him somewhere, but no one wants to write him. Tynion did, and gave him a perfect thesis and capped it off. Bendis clearly does, and continued it through not in the best way when carried out, but in a way that made sense initially (I have not read YJ this week but I know what happens ish).

But who else has shown any actual Desire for the character? Not Tomasi or Snyder, the other two big Bat writers. Percy seemed to have a lot of enthusiasm but was denied and left because of it. I mean, no one gives a fuck about Tim, and as such there is no one to give Tim an arc. In reality there aren't a lot of fans of the Bat family writing at DC right now. Specifically Robin, but that's a whole separate line of thought.

When was the last time he showed up in something? Legit was it Bendis' Moon Knight? Because that was fucking 2008. I wanna say maybe Williamson's Illuminati, but it was a short stint (boy that book was fun) in an already short book.

Yeah but is editorial trying to put him somewhere? If they wanted they could get someone to do a Bat-Family book. But instead of letting Tynion's team continue they shifted to Batman and the Outsiders, because...I dunno. I didn't read that 'cause I was pissed someone wanted to do THAT over just more Bat-Family stuff.

The problem is they've never pushed for that stuff. And these days the Bat brand only has room for four Bat-books. Batgirl they publish as a courtesy when it should be one of the biggest books on the stands, Nightwing because of nostalgia. The only thing people care about is Batman, and the editorial hasn't tried to make them care about anything else. Nightwing would've been canceled if Dan had gotten his way.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,402
The higher ups were absolutely clueless about what would sell.

I think this is the part that confused me the most. Didn't Tim have the longest solo Robin series out of any of the Robins? Weren't the sales of his Red Robin series good? At this point, why not give him a limited series or something and see the sales?

Whatever. I would love a Cass/Steph/Tim ongoing but I doubt that'll happen.
 

lorddarkflare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,323
Top 30 Comics of the 2010s, not really in order, just as they popped in my head. Quote me with whatever I missed

1. Mister Miracle by Tom King and Mitch Gerads

2. Hawkeye by Matt Fraction, David Aja, and Annie Wu

3. Daredevil by Mark Waid, Chris Samnee, Paolo Rivera, et al

4. Thor by Jason Aaron, Esad Ribic, Russell Dautermann, et al

5. Batman Inc by Grant Morrison, Chris Burnham, et al

6. Saga by Brian K Vaughan and Fiona Staples

7. The Private Eye by Brian K Vaughan and Marcos Martin

8. Stray Bullets by David Lapham

9. Scalped by Jason Aaron and R.M. Guéra

10. Powers of X/House of X by Johnathan Hickman, Pepe Larez, and R.B. Silvia

11. Young Avengers by Kieron Gillen and Jamie McKelvie

12. Two Brothers by Gabriel Ba and Fábio Moon

13. Wicked + Divine by Kieron Gillen and Jamie McKelvie

14. Battling Boy by Paul Pope

15. Vision by Tom King and Gabriel Weta

16. My War Gone By by Garth Ennis and Gorlan Parlov

17. Immortal Hulk by Al Ewing and Joe Bennett

18. Kill or Be Killed by Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips

19. My Favorite Thing is Monsters by Emil Ferris

20. Scott Pilgrims Finest Hour by Bryan Lee O'Malley

21. Multivesity by Grant Morrison, Ivan Reis, Frank Quitely, et al

22. the Unbeatable Squirrel Girl by Ryan North and Erica Henderson

23. Hellboy in Hell by Mike Mignola

24. Uncanny X-Force by Rick Remender and Jerome Opena

25. Richard Starks Parker by Darwyn Cooke

26. Moon Knight by Warren Ellis and Declan Shalvey

27. Silver Surfer by Dan Slott and Michael Allred

28. Daytripper by Gabriel Ba and Fábio Moon

29. The WildStorm by Warren Ellis and John Davis Hunt

30. March by John Lewis, Andrew Anylin, and Norm Powell

edit: shit forgot Priest Deathstroke...

Thank you for this. I love you forever for including Young Avengers.
 

caliph95

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,318
Otto would be better than both.
He was my second choice
Otto and/or Osborn have huge egos and insane i can some dynamics trying to act like they're the leaders over whoever the leader turns out to be Baron Zemo or whoever
Osborn is more of a wildcard he might try to betray them too just to be a dick

I guess we need an anti hero like catwoman but that's Loki to manipulate them to be on track on saving the world and not just join the bad guys
 

BKatastrophe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,359
Honestly the last Robin books were Son of Batman, which was a Damian solo and I book I have yet to read, and We Are Robin, which was honestly pretty fucking good.

Either way, Robin, Batgirl, and Nightwing are very necessary Bat Family books. Like, if you want a list of the Bat books you really need.

Batman
Detective Comics
Batgirl
Nightwing
Robin
Catwoman
Harley Quinn
Batwoman
Red Hood

Everyone else is extra. And that's already a lot.
 

BKatastrophe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,359
I just want to point out that Young Justice #18 is the first time Stephanie Brown has been referred to as Robin since Flashpoint, and also Batman this week was fucking RAD.

Like I had wild emotions. Tynion's run started strong, and still strong let's fucking go.
 

newmoneytrash

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,981
Melbourne, Australia
i finally finished Batman Eternal and, like, it was fine

like it was an okay Batman story that just didn't fit with the long format they were trying. i get the appeal of wanting to do a weekly comic over a year, but it's so hard to tell a singular story that way without it either feeling overly convoluted or having it feel like it's endlessly dragging. there were points in Eternal where it felt like both at the same time which was a huge bummer

i also read through Talon which i did not really care for at all, but what can you do
 

Porl

Member
Nov 6, 2017
8,330
Top 30 Comics of the 2010s, not really in order, just as they popped in my head. Quote me with whatever I missed

1. Mister Miracle by Tom King and Mitch Gerads

2. Hawkeye by Matt Fraction, David Aja, and Annie Wu

3. Daredevil by Mark Waid, Chris Samnee, Paolo Rivera, et al

4. Thor by Jason Aaron, Esad Ribic, Russell Dautermann, et al

5. Batman Inc by Grant Morrison, Chris Burnham, et al

6. Saga by Brian K Vaughan and Fiona Staples

7. The Private Eye by Brian K Vaughan and Marcos Martin

8. Stray Bullets by David Lapham

9. Scalped by Jason Aaron and R.M. Guéra

10. Powers of X/House of X by Johnathan Hickman, Pepe Larez, and R.B. Silvia

11. Young Avengers by Kieron Gillen and Jamie McKelvie

12. Two Brothers by Gabriel Ba and Fábio Moon

13. Wicked + Divine by Kieron Gillen and Jamie McKelvie

14. Battling Boy by Paul Pope

15. Vision by Tom King and Gabriel Weta

16. My War Gone By by Garth Ennis and Gorlan Parlov

17. Immortal Hulk by Al Ewing and Joe Bennett

18. Kill or Be Killed by Ed Brubaker and Sean Phillips

19. My Favorite Thing is Monsters by Emil Ferris

20. Scott Pilgrims Finest Hour by Bryan Lee O'Malley

21. Multivesity by Grant Morrison, Ivan Reis, Frank Quitely, et al

22. the Unbeatable Squirrel Girl by Ryan North and Erica Henderson

23. Hellboy in Hell by Mike Mignola

24. Uncanny X-Force by Rick Remender and Jerome Opena

25. Richard Starks Parker by Darwyn Cooke

26. Moon Knight by Warren Ellis and Declan Shalvey

27. Silver Surfer by Dan Slott and Michael Allred

28. Daytripper by Gabriel Ba and Fábio Moon

29. The WildStorm by Warren Ellis and John Davis Hunt

30. March by John Lewis, Andrew Anylin, and Norm Powell

edit: shit forgot Priest Deathstroke...
That is a damn good list.
Wicdiv <3

When was the last time he showed up in something? Legit was it Bendis' Moon Knight? Because that was fucking 2008. I wanna say maybe Williamson's Illuminati, but it was a short stint (boy that book was fun) in an already short book.
Squirrel girl. In a dream.
 

Freezasaurus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,087
We Only Find Them When They're Dead was a good opener. Can't wait for #2. The premise is right up my alley.
 

BKatastrophe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,359
Like I really want to talk about how fucking special this week's issue of Batman was in a way that I just don't think I've seen in awhile.

Like, Bruce has become alone and self-assured in a very cynical and cold way that we are supposed to assume is strength and take as hope, and both of these are true in a way, but this was different. This was acceptance at such a peaceful, familiar level. Comforting. A manifestation of the safest, most comfortable scenario possible to say "you are the most powerful, hopeful person out there and that has never been a weakness and never let that break you." A critique on isolationism as a coping mechanism as a whole when a loving family is right fucking there, and Bruce has the biggest, strongest family you could ask for (okay maybe not the strongest, but you get it). You have "Alfred" telling Bruce that he's taking out his failures on others who couldn't do what he wanted to do, projecting his failures on to them. Meanwhile we have outside Harley, desperately reaching out to the two most important people in her life: Batman and Poison Ivy, while protecting them from Punchline, whome she is also projecting herself onto. Then overcoming that self-projection. Simultaneously going through the same arc, as though to remind us that at the beginning of this book she came to Gotham to kill the Joker, and now she's Batman's #1 as he valls for back-up. Our C plot, Selina in a room full of supervillains says "fuck self-loathing, the love of my life needs me, I'm getting out of here."

This issue connects because it's about accepting and overcoming yourself to push forward in a way that you simultaneously regularly see, but I feel I have a hard time connecting with in superhero comics, because there is also the direct connective thread of family as a known quantity, and knowing exactly the people you pick and choose to love and throw in with and how your actions affect them and each one of the plot threads has that. Bruce, Harley, and Selina, and it works so well.

Fucking dope issue
yeah, i like calvin he is good!
You are on the right side of history my friend
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,228
Like I really want to talk about how fucking special this week's issue of Batman was in a way that I just don't think I've seen in awhile.

Like, Bruce has become alone and self-assured in a very cynical and cold way that we are supposed to assume is strength and take as hope, and both of these are true in a way, but this was different. This was acceptance at such a peaceful, familiar level. Comforting. A manifestation of the safest, most comfortable scenario possible to say "you are the most powerful, hopeful person out there and that has never been a weakness and never let that break you." A critique on isolationism as a coping mechanism as a whole when a loving family is right fucking there, and Bruce has the biggest, strongest family you could ask for (okay maybe not the strongest, but you get it). You have "Alfred" telling Bruce that he's taking out his failures on others who couldn't do what he wanted to do, projecting his failures on to them. Meanwhile we have outside Harley, desperately reaching out to the two most important people in her life: Batman and Poison Ivy, while protecting them from Punchline, whome she is also projecting herself onto. Then overcoming that self-projection. Simultaneously going through the same arc, as though to remind us that at the beginning of this book she came to Gotham to kill the Joker, and now she's Batman's #1 as he valls for back-up. Our C plot, Selina in a room full of supervillains says "fuck self-loathing, the love of my life needs me, I'm getting out of here."

This issue connects because it's about accepting and overcoming yourself to push forward in a way that you simultaneously regularly see, but I feel I have a hard time connecting with in superhero comics, because there is also the direct connective thread of family as a known quantity, and knowing exactly the people you pick and choose to love and throw in with and how your actions affect them and each one of the plot threads has that. Bruce, Harley, and Selina, and it works so well.

Fucking dope issue
So many great things in one book.

Supervillains hanging out and bickering at each other.
A nice little back and forth between Harley and Punchline.
A beautiful exchange between Bruce and his father.
Batman at full motivation instantly destroying Punchline.
Bat-tery.

This is the kind of quality Batman storytelling that has been gone for so long now.
More of this please.

Hell this wasn't just a great Bat book, but a great comic in general.
 

hipsterpants

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,581
For something that came out of nowhere and existed to resolve years of disparate plotlines Empyre ended pretty well! Ewing gave everything plenty of time to breath and gave all the characters time to shine. Ultimately it didn't blow me away, but with the general quality of events being so low I'm satisfied. Definitely helped that it was almost entirely weekly, please do this forever Marvel though I know Fuck is Coming will probably be dragged out (not that I'll be reading it anyway). Really looking forward to the aftermath issues.

and then the wait for Ewingvengers begins...
 

tim1138

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,197
Today was all Al Ewing for me - Empyre, GotG, and We Only Find Them When They're Dead.

Empyre wrapped really nicely I thought, all the major characters got their time to shine and I liked how it ended. I was a bit surprised
Jen just kinda came back. I know that will be explored more in Immortal She-Hulk, but I was just expecting it to be handled differently I guess
?

This was a nice down issue for Guardians, it was nice to have a Rich focused issue. I always enjoy a good homage to X-Factor #87. Keeping the Guardians out of Empyre was a good decision I think.

We Only Find Them When They're Dead looked incredible, and I really can't wait to dive into that world more.
 

Memento Mori

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,872
I've just read an issue of Uncanny X-Men where they're saved by leprechauns while visiting Banshee's ancestral castle. That was something. I assume the leprechauns have never been brought up again.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,165
I think this is the part that confused me the most. Didn't Tim have the longest solo Robin series out of any of the Robins? Weren't the sales of his Red Robin series good? At this point, why not give him a limited series or something and see the sales?

Whatever. I would love a Cass/Steph/Tim ongoing but I doubt that'll happen.
That's the thing people for whatever reason seem to overlook, if you want to talk about sales pounds per pound he's arguably the most popular secondary Bat family character if you got a decent creative team on it you could see sales that would more than justify a book, and obviously you're not going to have to really wrench anyone's arm to get them to write the book, there are people who want to do it that are already well established.
---
I should probably read Black Hammer I just had it sitting for the longest.
 

caliph95

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,318
More of the big events should be like Empyre just fun character focus event that doesn't screw with momentum of several books
 

Power Shot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
674
Mighty Morphin Power Rangers #53

Finally sat down to read this last night, it was a lovely ride.

For those that aren't in the loop, MMPR follows two teams of Rangers- (1) the standard MMPR team of Tommy, Billy, Kim, Rocky, Adam, and Aisha and (2) the Omega Rangers, featuring Jason, Trini, and Zack. The pacing can sometimes suffer as the comics bounce between the two teams (something that wasn't a problem when there were two books) which is why I'm thankful the lineup is relaunching with Mighty Morphin and Power Rangers, so both teams have their own books, in November.

This month features no Omegas and concentrates solely on the first battle between the MMPR team and the Dark Rangers. After supercharging the Green Chaos Crystal, Lord Zedd bestows Dark Ranger powers on Rita, Goldar, Squat, Baboo, and Finster. It's an incredible fight, a highlight being Squat (as the Dark Blue Ranger) being amazed at how cool it is to be a Power Ranger and fighting Billy. The finale is incredibly fun, and look at this artwork:
latest


It is my mission to convert as many people in this thread into MMPR readers.
 

Deleted member 20202

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
572
Cymru
Anyone here whose in the UK managed to get a copy of Batman by Grant Morrison vol 3. Mines be preordered with Amazon since December and I ain't received shit.
 

Astro Cat

Member
Mar 29, 2019
7,745
I've just read an issue of Uncanny X-Men where they're saved by leprechauns while visiting Banshee's ancestral castle. That was something. I assume the leprechauns have never been brought up again.
They're in an issue of Generation X but as far as I know that was the last time they were brought up.

I read 15 chapters of Chainsaw Man before bed. I couldn't stop, I love it. Messi was right, Power is sooo great. Her hatred of vegetables and reluctance to flush the toilet was very charming and I can relate to her love of cats.
 

Power Shot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
674
I was never too much into the show but I'm interested in the comic itself. Would you say that it's worth a read even if I don't care about Power Rangers shows?
Good question. The comic itself is completely standalone- you need almost no knowledge of the show itself to enjoy it -and the fan service it does do for the show is introduced smoothly enough that you will pick it up easily.

For my money, it's one of the best hero team comics available. The cast is pretty well developed through Go Go Power Rangers and the MMPR book and it's fairly easy to collect in trade paperbacks. The only downside I can see is the reading order, which can take some getting used to (GGPR acts as a prequel to MMPR, so the comics occasionally reference one another and intersect). GGPR is for high school drama/superhero learning. It reminds me a lot of Animorphs, if you're familiar with that series. MMPR, on the other hand, is a fun action comic with pretty high stakes.

Then there's the TMNT/Power Rangers crossover, which was just fantastic.
 

Vic_Viper

Thanked By SGM
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,117


Just came across this. I saw you guys talking about Tim not being Drake anymore, but I figured he just got a better name. This is dumb imo. At least Damian is moving on and becoming something new. Tim regressing back to just Robin is dumb. I get wanting to have the classic Batfamily back together though.
 

R0b1n

Member
Jun 29, 2018
7,787
Wow Empyre #6 once again makes me miss the Thor mini hard. Overall the event was fun, with many cool character moments strung along by a rather generic plot. Honestly, for popcorn events, this is what I expect anyway. Jen coming back just like that is kinda weird though, I assume there will be more in the Immortal She-Hulk mini
 
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