COMICS!!! |OT| October 2020 | I see that face in my nightmares.

[BKatastrophe]

I want Kelly Thompson to get a second run at A-Force so bad, because it'd actually be good this time. Granted it's basically what she's doing with Captain Marvel, but still. She's proved herself on an ensemble with West Coast Avengers and we need some more Avengers books, honestly. More non-X-Men team books, please Marvel? Like Champions ain't here yet and Savage Avengers and Strikeforce didn't hit the mark for me.

Wanda would totally be on Kelly Thompson's team

 

[RocketKiss]

I love that Wanda is called The Pretender.

 

[Weiss]

Honestly it makes sense Mutants are salty but that House of m drama got so exhausting

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The fundamental problem, at least how I see it, is that House of M was so bad every reader came away with not hating or blaming Wanda, but Bendis.

Except you can't do anything about Bendis, so the next step is to blame Wanda for a story so bad the audience/story connection was severed and try to fix her, only you're fixing her for a thing that nobody recognize as her fault but has to be written as such because you can't have Wanda say in-comic "my writer is a tool."

Wanda telling her Mutant teammates to kiss her ass during Uncanny Avengers was dumb as shit because Rick Remender, but it was a nice subtext acknowledgement of the fact that 15 years later Wanda is defined by some writer not doing his homework.

 

[BKatastrophe]

I don't think the problem is mutants being angry at Wanda. That makes sense. It's that no one blames Pietro.

Although Exodus takes that shit to the next level.

 

[Sandfox]

Just in terms of world building for the mutant culture it makes sense to bring of Wanda since she wiped out over 91% of them, and then we got the reveal that she isn't even a mutant.

Honestly it makes sense Mutants are salty but that House of m drama got so exhausting

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I've seen people as recently as last month say that they don't understand the mutants being angry with Wanda over House of M and say that it was undeserved.

 

[caliph95]

I don't think the problem is mutants being angry at Wanda. That makes sense. It's that no one blames Pietro.

Although Exodus takes that shit to the next level.

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Wasn't it retcon to be doom or something

 

[Weiss]

Just in terms of world building for the mutant culture it makes sense to bring of Wanda since she wiped out over 91% of them, and then we got the reveal that she isn't even a mutant.


I've seen people as recently as last month say that they don't understand the mutants being angry with Wanda over House of M and say that it was undeserved.

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It's not that it's undeserved or anything, it's just that nobody cares anymore. House of M was 15 years ago.

 

[Sandfox]

It's not that it's undeserved or anything, it's just that nobody cares anymore. House of M was 15 years ago.

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I don't feel like it was every really resolved tbqh. We have the Uncanny Avengers thing that was mentioned before, but that was BS and it was followed up by retconning Wanda being a mutant and then she just hung out with the Avengers going forward.

If nobody wants to use Wanda other than the X-Men writer she's going to get trashed lol. That's the bigger issue for the character.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Because when you break it down, Wanda's history with the mutants has always been shaky, so it's like of course the mutants would respond with "oh so this is finally it, huh?" And then she reveals that she isn't even a mutant, but a byproduct of the High Evolutionary (on accident, but still).

The biggest problem is that no one ever points out "hey Pietro psychologically manipulated his sister into pulling the trigger in the first place. Shouldn't we hate him, too?" But nah, because he wasn't the one that actually committed the act.

Maybe the only person to actually go at Pietro and not just Wanda

 

[caliph95]

Again didn't it turned out to be Doom fault somehow

 

[Weiss]

I don't feel like it was every really resolved tbqh. We have the Uncanny Avengers thing that was mentioned before, but that was BS and it was followed up by retconning Wanda being a mutant and then she just hung out with the Avengers going forward.

If nobody wants to use Wanda other than the X-Men writer she's going to get trashed lol. That's the bigger issue for the character.

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It wasn't and it's going to take a particularly good writer to satisfyingly resolve it.

I just don't think it matters anymore. We're at a point where every Mutant is alive again so every single consequence of House of M and the banal decade long period of Mutant Genocide stories has finally ended. Wanda doesn't fuck with the X-Men anymore and that's for the best.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Again didn't it turned out to be Doom fault somehow

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I have no idea. I never read House of M and I don't know when they retconned it if they did

 

[BKatastrophe]

My biggest problem, honestly, is that Avengers vs X-Men has not once been acknowledged, She helped Hope bring back mutants and that has never been acknowledged ever.

 

[Freezasaurus]

Because when you break it down, Wanda's history with the mutants has always been shaky, so it's like of course the mutants would respond with "oh so this is finally it, huh?" And then she reveals that she isn't even a mutant, but a byproduct of the High Evolutionary (on accident, but still).

The biggest problem is that no one ever points out "hey Pietro psychologically manipulated his sister into pulling the trigger in the first place. Shouldn't we hate him, too?" But nah, because he wasn't the one that actually committed the act.

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Pietro has always been a manipulative sister-fucking scumbag.

 

[Neo Hartless]

Wanda doesn't fuck with the X-Men anymore and that's for the best.

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But she will soon, and if I trust anyone to poke this hornet's nest, it's The Hick, man.

 

[BKatastrophe]

Pietro has always been a manipulative sister-fucking scumbag.

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I like the idea of no one hating him for House of M because they already always hate him for just being him all the time.

 

[Freezasaurus]

I like the idea of no one hating him for House of M because they already always hate him for just being him all the time.

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He should team up with Beast in a story where Krakoa swallows them both.

 

[Weiss]

But she will soon, and if I trust anyone to poke this hornet's nest, it's The Hick, man.

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And when the time comes someone at editorial should dutifully hit him in the wrist with a ruler.

 

[Sandfox]

My biggest problem, honestly, is that Avengers vs X-Men has not once been acknowledged, She helped Hope bring back mutants and that has never been acknowledged ever.

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AvX annoys me because they wanted to punish the X-Men for everything that happened, and did the exact opposite for Wanda because she's one of them.

 

[caliph95]

And when the time comes someone at editorial should dutifully hit him in the wrist with a ruler.

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I think editorial is giving Hickman a lot of room to do whatever

 

[Weiss]

I think editorial is giving Hickman a lot of room to do whatever

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I'm not up for another 15 years of Wanda being radioactive tbqh

 

[caliph95]

My biggest problem, honestly, is that Avengers vs X-Men has not once been acknowledged, She helped Hope bring back mutants and that has never been acknowledged ever.

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Honestly it's good no one talks about Avengers vs xmen

 

[Neo Hartless]

I think editorial is giving Hickman a lot of room to do whatever

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He's the de-facto X-Editor, Jordan White is just a front.

 

[BKatastrophe]

AvX annoys me because they wanted to punish the X-Men for everything that happened, and did the exact opposite for Wanda because she's one of them.

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AvX is a mess of a bunch of people who had no idea what to do. Like why are we bringing back mutants, and turning the leaders of the mutant resistance that kept them alive during that entire time into war criminals? Why are the Avengers, who were aggressive racist fuckups, now painted as heroes, but still losers? And the losers are winners? What is this morally ambiguous horseshit?

I don't understand.

You can't blame just Bendis. There were like 4 other writers on that. Bendis can catch heat for Age of Ultron though.

 

[Freezasaurus]

Honestly it's good no one talks about Avengers vs xmen

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[MHWilliams]

batman, batman, batman, from the writer who brought you batman, and batman

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And this is why we get the books we get.

 

[Weiss]

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When I'm in charge I'm going to make a decree that writing Cap in an X-Men book will be punishable by death.

 

[BKatastrophe]

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Yup totally chill Cap

That's why you brought backup to that "conversation"

 

[Astro Cat]

I'm one of the few who enjoyed AvX. I know it's a mess, but I liked the Phoenix X-Men costumes

 

[bluexy]

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imagine spending that much time drawing scales in captain america's armor and yet leaving his face looking like that.

 

[BKatastrophe]

I'm one of the few who enjoyed AvX. I know it's a mess, but I liked the Phoenix X-Men costumes

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Did you though?

 

[ViewtifulJC]

*avengers show up in x-men comic*
avenger:
x-men character: fuck you fuck you fuck you leave pls leave human fuck you fuck you

 

[BKatastrophe]

*avengers show up in x-men comic*
avenger:
x-men character: fuck you fuck you fuck you leave pls leave human fuck you fuck you

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This isn't inaccurate

 

[Weiss]

*avengers show up in x-men comic*
avenger:
x-men character: fuck you fuck you fuck you leave pls leave human fuck you fuck you

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It's more like

Avengers in their own comic: I will never stand for injustice, all people are equal and I will fight to protect their rights.

Avengers in X-Men comics: Both sides are the same. Be nice to your oppressors. Meet hate with love. If you fight you're as bad as them.

 

[caliph95]

I honestly didn't like either side because Scott plan was literally hope the Phoenix doesn't just kill everyone and may ressurect mutants again because...................plot? At least cap plan was to let Phoenix blow up somewhere else

But the Avengers especially Wolverine and Cap because it's a dumb event about heroes fighting heroes are way too aggressive for no reason to justify the event

Because if everyone was actually in character and written well no one would be fighting and everyone would be discussing it and the event would be 2-5 issues because it's the heroes just putting hope somewhere else and teaching her to not kill everyone

Only good thing to come out was that it sets up Black Panther and Namor rivalry in Hickman New Avengers

 

[MHWilliams]

*avengers show up in x-men comic*
avenger:
x-men character: fuck you fuck you fuck you leave pls leave human fuck you fuck you

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I mean, yeah.

 

[caliph95]

It's more like

Avengers in their own comic: I will never stand for injustice, all people are equal and I will fight to protect their rights.

Avengers in X-Men comics: Both sides are the same. Be nice to your oppressors. Meet hate with love. If you fight you're as bad as them.

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Captain America acts like Ultimate Captain in x books but in his own books or Avengers he would fight an entire army if just one guy gets evicted

 

[TheDarkKnight]

Finished the re-read of Crisis of Infinite Earths. Such an dense, epic read. Just like last Ike I'm done and it's kind of draining But still a great template set for all future events. Perez just doing Pérez things and filling every panel with as many deep cut references a possible.

I forgot how much of a bloodbath the ending was. When all the Earth-2 doubles just get wiped out in the final battle. Darkseid rolling in at the end was fun too.

Glad I added it to the re-read I pick up a lot of nods used in later crisis events. You see a lot more of the ties Johns did in Infinite as it's as direct sequel as possible. Even I think Final Crisis but I need to re-read that when I get to it later in the mega reading journey

And of course the first issue for Batman after the re-boot is freakin Magpie of all characters. Which is funny and also relevant because Robinson used her for the issue right after infinite crisis in the One year later jump.

 

[Weiss]

This was great, though. One of my favourite Emma moments.

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[RocketKiss]

I don't read Avengers, but they sound like Twitter blue checkmark liberals.

 

[hipsterpants]

I mean, the X-Men only really work when they're in their own corner of the Marvel U that occasionally get poked by the rest of it. the reason I'm a little unsure of stuff like SWORD bringing mutants to the forefront of the Marvel U in general, seems like it's opening a big ol' can of worms.

 

[BKatastrophe]

I mean, yeah.

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Emma ethering Tony was great, but that fucking Millarworld sign. And McNiven drew it in..

This was great, though. One of my favourite Emma moments.

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Kyle & Yost New X-Men was great, and then their X-Force came along and was also great.

 

[caliph95]

I mean, the X-Men only really work when they're in their own corner of the Marvel U that occasionally get poked by the rest of it. the reason I'm a little unsure of stuff like SWORD bringing mutants to the forefront of the Marvel U in general, seems like it's opening a big ol' can of worms.

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Unfortunately it means Spider-Man and the Avengers plus other hero teams have to ignore constant genocide even when it makes no sense for them to and writers can't justify it so they get lectured for ignoring it for good reason but then afterwards they go back to ignoring it so the x stories can work

 

[MHWilliams]

I've talked about this before. the problem is the Avengers offices and X-offices are under two different lead editors.

The Avengers deal with the big shit, sure, but the X-Men by their very nature are usually dealing with the impending genocide of their entire race. And while the Avengers' big shit tends to involve at least a few token X-Men (see: Empyre), you never see the Avengers issue of an X-Men crossover. There's no X of Swords: Black Knight or whatever.

So from the pure construction of the line, you have the Avengers who will stand up an protect people except when the X-Men are involved. And the only in-universe explanation is they're always too busy, or they don't care. This is partially why the "X-Men on their own reality/world/planet" kind of actually is a good idea. Krakoa being mutant only means no Avengers could get there anyways. So at least now the excuse is "We can't get to where the trouble is."

I don't read Avengers, but they sound like Twitter blue checkmark liberals.

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That is a good read.

 

[ElNarez]

The Avengers taking part in the protection of mutantkind is only out of character now because it was written as a thing they don't do before. Should you even try to fix it? Does it even make sense? There's gotta be a better take on this than Remender's, right?

I don't read Avengers, but they sound like Twitter blue checkmark liberals.

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I mean Tony did delete his account because people kept calling him out soooooooo

 

[BKatastrophe]

I mean, the X-Men only really work when they're in their own corner of the Marvel U that occasionally get poked by the rest of it. the reason I'm a little unsure of stuff like SWORD bringing mutants to the forefront of the Marvel U in general, seems like it's opening a big ol' can of worms.

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SWORD has always associated with X-Men until it became an Alpha Flight book post-Secret Wars because of Abigail Brand. They're just bringing it back to those roots of "the X-Men fuck with space, guys." I mean Warren Ellis effectively replaced Colossus and Kitty Pryde when he took over for Joss Whedon on Astonishing X-Men with Abigail Brand and Storm (even though Brand was technically still with SWORD and not an X-Man).

 

[Weiss]

I don't read Avengers, but they sound like Twitter blue checkmark liberals.

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Well, it really is only in books where they're depicted as stooges of The Man, which happens more often than I'd care to.

I've talked about this before. the problem is the Avengers offices and X-offices are under two different lead editors.

The Avengers deal with the big shit, sure, but the X-Men by their very nature are usually dealing with the impending genocide of their entire race. And while the Avengers' big shit tends to involve at least a few token X-Men (see: Empyre), you never see the Avengers issue of an X-Men crossover. There's no X of Swords: Black Knight or whatever.

So from the pure construction of the line, you have the Avengers who will stand up an protect people except when the X-Men are involved. And the only in-universe explanation is they're always too busy, or they don't care. This is partially why the "X-Men on their own reality/world/planet" kind of actually is a good idea. Krakoa being mutant only means no Avengers could get there anyways. So at least now the excuse is "We can't get to where the trouble is."


That is a good read.

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See I think the problem begins with the idea of Mutant books for Mutant problems instead of "here's the X-Men, they're superheroes who are Mutants."

When things like Genosha or House of M happen then it becomes ridiculous that nobody helps, but they can't help because otherwise there's no story; the only way to avoid the problem is not to write Mutant genocide stories every week, but that's all anyone wants to do because Mutants books need to have Mutant problems.

 

[caliph95]

Same reason why Superman doesn't stop Joker War immediately or any other time a villain almost destroys Gotham

 

[MHWilliams]

See I think the problem begins with the idea of Mutant books for Mutant problems instead of "here's the X-Men, they're superheroes who are Mutants."

When things like Genosha or House of M happen then it becomes ridiculous that nobody helps, but they can't help because otherwise there's no story; the only way to avoid the problem is not to write Mutant genocide stories every week, but that's all anyone wants to do because Mutants books need to have Mutant problems.

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Technically, X of Swords isn't a mutant problem for once! Unfortunately, it's happening on a place that non-mutants can't get to. Oops.

 

[BKatastrophe]

The Avengers taking part in the protection of mutantkind is only out of character now because it was written as a thing they don't do before. Should you even try to fix it? Does it even make sense? There's gotta be a better take on this than Remender's, right?


I mean Tony did delete his account because people kept calling him out soooooooo

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Duggan took over for Remender on Uncanny Avengers afterwards, but I don't remember it really being as sociopolitical as Remender's run. I didn't really read the first couple arcs though. Didn't jump on until post-CW2. Hated the first issue.