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V23

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,950
Pardons decided by one person are so stupid. They should be voted on by an independent group.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,252
Checks must've cleared. I don't see him pardoning the terrorists. Alot of them won't be able to afford $2 million. That one CEO could though.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
I'm actually betting he's not going to pardon the terrorists, because they are "trashy".

He's going to pardon all the richest criminals he can find in hopes of receiving kickbacks, whether he actually sold pardons to them or not, and any celebrities he can pardon to try and ingratiate himself, because at the end of the day he's still NYC's most desperately thirsty faux-socialite.
 

Traxus

Spirit Tamer
Member
Jan 2, 2018
5,197
i_pardon_you3238b82e0e.gif
 
Nov 7, 2017
1,476
I hope this will be the final "fuck you" to his base - he'll pardon rich white collar criminals and ignore his terrorist supporters.
 
Nov 5, 2017
3,478
Although bad, at least he is leaving office being branded as the worst president in US history. There is nothing we can do about it.
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,018
How is dollars for access and pardons not illegal in any way, especially if Trump personally benefits from it?
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
38,280
Any other Black Water Mercs that murdered brown children waiting for a Trump pardon?
 

makonero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,664
How is dollars for access and pardons not illegal in any way, especially if Trump personally benefits from it?
The founders assumed that congress would move swiftly to remove a president that corrupt.

they never accounted for political parties or congressional gridlock or the selfishness of putting your own political future ahead of what's good for the country
 

Obi Wan Jabroni

alt account
Banned
Dec 14, 2020
1,678
I blame the system.

I know there's never been anyone as stupid and dangerous to this country but the pardoning power of a president makes no sense whatsoever.

You make a fair point but the counterpoint is that we've never had a president who was this stupid and transparently corrupt.

I mean, he gave Rush Limbaugh the Presidential Medal of Freedom for Christssake.
 

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,824
JP
Can someone tell me what is the initial intent behind this practice? Looks like it's a mechanism rife for corruption.
 

sfedai0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,956
Pardons are some of the most insane and abuse of powers that a POTUS has. No pros could ever outweigh the cons, as evidenced here.
 

Richietto

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,993
North Carolina
I think its high time we look at these powers the president has and get rid of some of them. Too much rides on the belief that the president won't be a piece of shit and use his powers for his own gain.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
18,067
Was Clinton impeached 2x?

No but I don't think the amount of impeachments would matter haha. Otherwise, you'd have the opposing party just do it so the President couldn't pardon. The Constitution is pretty clear on the pardon power though.

He's gotta name them by name though.

He doesn't. Carter didn't specifically name any Vietnam draft dodgers. It said "all persons". In theory, Trump can do the same for anyone who was in the Capitol building.
 
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Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
Can someone tell me what is the initial intent behind this practice? Looks like it's a mechanism rife for corruption.

As far as I understand, the intent was mostly for treason. Basically, it was decided that some element of the government should have the capacity to determine an act previously determined to be "treason" (ie, inciting slave revolt in a post-abolition society) is no longer treason to the sitting government, and provide clemency. That's how it was used early on, primarily to pardon charges of treason.

The problem is that it was framed as a pardon against federal charges without further restriction. This doesn't entirely make sense in the modern legal understanding of what a federal charge is, since it's often no longer a crime against the government itself. (The idea of the pardon being that the government can forgive crimes committed against the government.)
 

Poeton

Member
Oct 25, 2017
789
Austin, TX
I'm pretty sure some Trump family members are going to get some non specific pardons on some very specific dates.

And we are all going to be like, "??????!"
 

Mandos

Member
Nov 27, 2017
30,971
I'm pretty sure some Trump family members are going to get some non specific pardons on some very specific dates.

And we are all going to be like, "??????!"
It'd be hilarious if in trying to make it too broad and vague they make it invalid
or he's dumb enough to include future crimes which would get it overturned
 

Surakian

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
10,871
There need to be laws imposed on presidential pardons. Limits on how many can be done in a term, what crimes and circumstances qualify, no personal or direct business associations to those who are being pardoned allowed, any monetary exchanges must be disclosed, and any crimes related to money or treason are not pardon-able unless under specific circumstances that must be deliberated by panel of bipartisan representatives.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
The founders assumed that congress would move swiftly to remove a president that corrupt.

they never accounted for political parties or congressional gridlock or the selfishness of putting your own political future ahead of what's good for the country

Which is hilarious given the entire electoral system and especially the constitutional requirement for an absolute majority to be elected President makes the United States one of if not the country with the closest to systemically mandated two party system.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,616
I know he holds them in disdain but I am worried still he'll pardon some capital rioters, would they still be up for state charges?
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
18,067
I think its high time we look at these powers the president has and get rid of some of them. Too much rides on the belief that the president won't be a piece of shit and use his powers for his own gain.

I don't know how much political will there is on either side to do it. You'd need a lot for a Constitutional amendment.


There need to be laws imposed on presidential pardons. Limits on how many can be done in a term, what crimes and circumstances qualify, no personal or direct business associations to those who are being pardoned allowed, any monetary exchanges must be disclosed, and any crimes related to money or treason are not pardon-able unless under specific circumstances that must be deliberated by panel of bipartisan representatives.

I don't think we'll ever see a Constitutional amendment that limits the pardon power to that degree.
 

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,824
JP
As far as I understand, the intent was mostly for treason. Basically, it was decided that some element of the government should have the capacity to determine an act previously determined to be "treason" (ie, inciting slave revolt in a post-abolition society) is no longer treason to the sitting government, and provide clemency. That's how it was used early on, primarily to pardon charges of treason.

The problem is that it was framed as a pardon against federal charges without further restriction. This doesn't entirely make sense in the modern legal understanding of what a federal charge is, since it's often no longer a crime against the government itself. (The idea of the pardon being that the government can forgive crimes committed against the government.)

Thank you for the explanation. So yet another artefact from the past that needs an update.
 

MIMIC

Member
Dec 18, 2017
8,327
Omg how is this right?

I wish Biden could null and void this shit for Trump being impeached 2x. Doj should look into it.

Pardon power is extremely broad and it's just one of the perks of being President. Can't really do anything about it (and a Constitutional amendment is unlikely).