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CNN: New evidence suggests Jussie Smollett orchestrated attack (Check Threadmarks / Staff Posts) (UPDATE: Now a suspect)

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LewieP

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,097
Despicable if true, and will have a serious knock on for actual victims of crimes along these lines.

As I said in the previous thread, the whole story didn't quite add up from the start, but I'd initially bit my tongue out of not wanting to pile on someone who was presenting as a victim of a hate crime, it was only when things got more suspicious that I voiced my doubts.

Hopefully now posters who accused myself and others of spreading "baseless and harmful conjecture" can now see mine and others healthy skepticism for what it is.

I just hope that genuine victims of hate crimes don't get associated with this kind of fraud, and that justice is served in this case.
 

Deleted member 925

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,711
Vonnegut said:
Victim blaming is characterized as blaming the victim of a crime for "allowing themselves" to become a victim of a crime.

Expressing doubts about the victim's testimony is different than blaming the victim.

Expressing skepticism is also different from victim blaming.

But now the argument may shift to whether or not the people who expressed skepticism of the veracity of Smollett's report were doing so in good faith or whether or not they had any logical reason to express doubt at that point in time.

I was called a "diet racist" by some users for saying that it was fair to be skeptical of Smollett's story.

I was also banned for 5 days.

Now that it's becoming clear that Jussie Smollett was not truthful and that he may have staged the whole event, the emotion that I feel is anger at, and disappointment in, Smollett for hurting the cause to advance his own agenda.

Victims of hate crimes will now suffer more due to Smollett's lies.

And some people are saying that he is troubled and needs help. I think he firstly needs to be charged, prosecuted, and convicted of filing a false report if that is indeed the case.

He's hurt a lot of people today and invigorated racists.
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This so much. I say this as a gay dude who is brown. And it happened in my own state, which had me skeptical to begin with. We were the only city to boot Trump out, we fucking hate him here. Something seemed off from day 1 for sure.
 

turtle553

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,227
mutantmagnet said:
It's good to know you think the history of racism and persecution is as fanciful as Star Trek IV The Voyage Home.

*rolls eyes*
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I'm not talking just this story. Any time things don't line up, people should be able to say so.

I'm just saying there has to be a limit to what details could be taken at face value when someone tells a story. He obviously had some kind of injuries, so something happened. If he just said he was attacked and slurs were thrown his way, that is 100% believable in this country right now. The combination of time of day, location, weather, and manner of attack were things that people questioned. I think it's fair to comment on that and others don't.
 
Hollywood Duo

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,941
I need some hard ass receipts before I believe a celebrity with everything to lose would pull an enormously dumb stunt like that.
 
lmcfigs

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
Vonnegut said:
Victim blaming is characterized as blaming the victim of a crime for "allowing themselves" to become a victim of a crime.

Expressing doubts about the victim's testimony is different than blaming the victim.

Expressing skepticism is also different from victim blaming.

But now the argument may shift to whether or not the people who expressed skepticism of the veracity of Smollett's report were doing so in good faith or whether or not they had any logical reason to express doubt at that point in time.

I was called a "diet racist" by some users for saying that it was fair to be skeptical of Smollett's story.

I was also banned for 5 days.

Now that it's becoming clear that Jussie Smollett was not truthful and that he may have staged the whole event, the emotion that I feel is anger at, and disappointment in, Smollett for hurting the cause to advance his own agenda.

Victims of hate crimes will now suffer more due to Smollett's lies.

And some people are saying that he is troubled and needs help. I think he firstly needs to be charged, prosecuted, and convicted of filing a false report if that is indeed the case.

He's hurt a lot of people today and invigorated racists.
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people on this website can definitely be out of control w/ their accusations against other posters.
 
Grug

Grug

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,645
Yep he's given the right an exception to the rule that they will reinterpret as "the norm".

Fuck.
 
Hycran

Hycran

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
1,494
CrankyJay said:
Your ban should be removed from your record. I agreed with you the whole time but didn't bother chipping in because reasons.
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That's part of the problem on this forum. People don't speak in more nuanced tones for fear of being branded as racist or homophobic or whatever. "Reasons" = expedience. It's easier for us to simply stay quiet and avoid getting banned.

I never saw the original comment but I hope some of the recent events can actually open up a dialogue with the moderation staff that encourages people to flesh out difficult subjects rather than cower for fear of being excommunicated.
 
stupei

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Sometimes it really feels like people want to act like having to consider what you do or don't post on a message board is a form of oppression. There are certain thoughts I have that I don't share with every group of people I know because I understand context might impact the reading. I've never thought to angst about it.
 
TheKidObi

TheKidObi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
969
EnronERA said:
Also to those wanting him to go to jail, or to have his career ruined, etc etc. This guy is not well. You've got to be pretty depressed/mentally unwell to want to make up something like this, risking your career and jail just to get some sympathy or attention..so let's not judge him TOO harshly.
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If police charge him, he needs to go to prison. can't be accusing people for false shit and getting away with it, not to talk about he just fucked most of the gay victims that are actually victims of hate crime etc. so when the police report come out and say he staged all this he needs to be charged. mental health isn't an excuse.
 
Gorger

Gorger

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,628
Norway
The worst thing about this if true is that it makes it harder for people of actual abuse and violent attacks to step forward and be believed. People who lies about this is the absolute worst.
 
Xe4

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,295
Deepwater said:
It would probably behoove people to be skeptical of any reporting with anonymous law enforcement sources. That's how the story has grown to be crazy
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Yeah, definetly. As of right now it's too unclear to say anything with certainty one way or another. People should keep that in mind.
 
Neece

Neece

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,200
RedMercury said:
Well, if you don't find this forum suitable for the things you would like to discuss, there's not much to say is there? Not every forum can be everything for everyone. There are always going to be things you agree with and disagree with.
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Or we can voice our disagreements within the community in hopes that the community listens and does better. And this is a chance for the community to reflect and do better, instead of doubling down and all but telling people voicing complaints that they can take it to another forum.
 
wafflebrain

wafflebrain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,238
User Banned (3 Days): Antagonistic behavior and ignoring staff post
RedMercury said:
Edit: Saw the threadmark, removed
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Hey at least you're consistent with towing the line :p

Never question anything anyone in a position of authority does people, nope nobody ever makes mistakes in those positions! Never room for growth or having an open dialogue with your community either, no sir! Just take them shits to PM where they'll be lost to the ether with all the other valid criticism xD
 

maxpl

Attempt to circumvent a ban with an alt account
Banned
Dec 5, 2018
32
now police are saying he paid the two brothers.
 
mutantmagnet

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
smurfx said:
how?
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Look at the thread where people questioned the actual attacks with blaming the victim


This just seems so fucking weird. How would they know he was stopping by a random Subway at 2am. Was he livestreaming his return trip? Was he a regular at this Subway?

This shit is going to come to a head one way or the other. These fascists don't deserve to breath our air.
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I strongly, strongly hope there's no doubt in this story or any possibility that it was staged, just so we don't have to go through the thinkpieces/backtracking/bullshit that happened with the Covington debacle. Stuff like this happening makes me pretty scared to be an out gay man alone outside, though.
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This story is so cartoonish sounding that it almost sounds staged. Or like a scene from Empire. Even has a note with cut out letters. This shit is nuts and disturbing.
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I guess I'm a little suspicious? It seems so incredibly cartoonish (especially with the letter) that I can't help think it's like in 2008 when that woman said that Obama people attacked her and drew a B on her face (but she did it herself and drew it backwards because of the mirror lol), or when that black church in Mississippi said that Trump people burned down their building and wrote VOTE TRUMP on the side but it was actually a parishioner.

It was -1 degrees. These guys were waiting outside of a subway station in the freezing cold on the off chance that Jussie showed up? That seems unrealistic? And I'm confused -- it doesn't appear in the police report that anyone said "this is MAGA country"? It also doesn't say in the police report that Jussie broke his rib? I guess I'm just very confused -- this has to be premeditated if it happened as described, but it also seems extremely unlikely they'd be able just to come upon Jussie at the time described.
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If this makes you angry, pause for a second and consider that it could be by design. I want to believe him, because this is definitely plausible in Trump's America, but we have had a lot of outrageous stories like this that turned out to be fake. I really REALLY don't want this one to be one of them.
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All those people and many more in that thread didn't eat a ban.


Now let's look at who got banned.

I didn't say I'd show no sympathy for them in the moment, and I suspect you know that but you're trying to make your point.

You can express sympathy in the moment why'll also having doubts about the story you're hearing.


I'm not saying the 40 minute delay in calling the police is making me skeptical. It's the combination of multiple strange aspects to the story that made me skeptical.

Why is a wealthy person walking home in below zero temperatures at 2am? This is also a strange time for assailants to choose a victim (this is literally a statistical thing. There are far less crimes committed the colder temperatures get). Why did he wait 40 minutes to call police? He only went to the hospital after the police suggested he do so. Lastly, and I literally just saw this mentioned on the Chicago news broadcast I'm watching right now, the police are saying Smollett made no mention of a rib injury when talking to them, and have seen no medical documentation of such an injury.

I think the police are dropping details like that for a reason. I think they are skeptical of his story, as they've seen little evidence to back up his story, and I suspect they too have found aspects of his story and his behavior afterwards strange.


Your blanket claim that I am skeptical of victims isn't warranted. I'm questioning this story because multiple aspects seem odd. I accept the vast majority of victim stories at face value.


Intellectual inquiry into what is true and what isn't is a completely detached activity from having empathy for others. There is no need to portray a forum conversation on this topic as being comparable to a face to face questioning of the alleged victim.
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There are ways to express concern about the story without saying the victim did anything wrong in that story.
 
CrankyJay

CrankyJay

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,318
Hycran said:
That's part of the problem on this forum. People don't speak in more nuanced tones for fear of being branded as racist or homophobic or whatever. "Reasons" = expedience. It's easier for us to simply stay quiet and avoid getting banned.

I never saw the original comment but I hope some of the recent events can actually open up a dialogue with the moderation staff that encourages people to flesh out difficult subjects rather than cower for fear of being excommunicated.
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Arguments have been through so many permutations here and elsewhere that they've become distilled (for expedience). People don't want nuance anymore. It's probably tiresome to wade through for them. I enjoy it.
 
Samban

Samban

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
413
Vonnegut said:
Victim blaming is characterized as blaming the victim of a crime for "allowing themselves" to become a victim of a crime.

Expressing doubts about the victim's testimony is different than blaming the victim.

Expressing skepticism is also different from victim blaming.

But now the argument may shift to whether or not the people who expressed skepticism of the veracity of Smollett's report were doing so in good faith or whether or not they had any logical reason to express doubt at that point in time.

I was called a "diet racist" by some users for saying that it was fair to be skeptical of Smollett's story.

I was also banned for 5 days.

Now that it's becoming clear that Jussie Smollett was not truthful and that he may have staged the whole event, the emotion that I feel is anger at, and disappointment in, Smollett for hurting the cause to advance his own agenda.

Victims of hate crimes will now suffer more due to Smollett's lies.

And some people are saying that he is troubled and needs help. I think he firstly needs to be charged, prosecuted, and convicted of filing a false report if that is indeed the case.

He's hurt a lot of people today and invigorated racists.
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Yes, I saw your posts and I was afraid to talk because I felt the same (i.e. that the story was too cartoonishly evil and could be a hoax which would be incredibly damaging) and I was met with the same shit hottakes ranging from "bothsidesing" to someone asking me why I'm more concerned about how racists feel than the victim and all sorts of shit.

Luckily enough I didn't catch a ban for it so hopefully that means there is a way to discuss these things without at least catching a ban.

Either way, some people on ERA really need to back off a little and realize that not everyone is secretely trying to get a rise out of them.

I've had people on this forum make me feel like I need to prove to them that I'm black just for having a different opinion. That's kind of fucked up guys.

Anyway just to stress that the investigation is still not final. CNN could just be regurgitating info to get hits, but it's definitely not looking good.
 
kmfdmpig

kmfdmpig

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
19,369
If he's officially charged or the police state he orchestrated it then how quickly do the Empire bosses indicate he's off the show? I'd say it'll happen the same day. I can't see them keeping him around after this shit.
 
Xe4

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,295
Amiablepercy said:
Fair. Deadline isn't TMZ though. Pretty reliable and consistent reputation as quality reportage.
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That's true.CNN, Deadline, etc. are far more reliable, which is why I'm currently leaning towards this being a hoax.

But something possibly or likely being true is an entirely different discussion than when the police report comes out and actual charges against whoever are being filed. At least for something as wishy washy as this has been.
 
Veldin

Veldin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,182
I have zero confidence in Chicago police detectives being able to properly investigate this case. It's been turned into a complete circus and the department already has a miserable track record for solving crimes.
 
Deepwater

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
maxpl said:
already don't believe what?
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Repeating myself from the previous thread:

How can it possibly get worse if a significant amount of people already didn't believe the story from jump.

This is my thing. As an aside, when a woman says that she was assaulted, people already don't believe her. From the very beginning. This happens in literally every situation where a woman alleges she is assaulted.

In the very rare instances when a woman is lying, everybody rushes to say how much harm she has caused and how this makes it harder for other women to get justice. Except...we know that's(people lying) not the majority. We know that most people don't believe women.

So we arrive to this rhetorical point where liars are held responsible for the failings of everybody else. It's shitty whenever a person lies about a crime happening to them. That doesn't erase the fact that regardless most people presume the default position is a lie. Any time people trot out this rhetoric of the harms caused to actual victims, we completely ignore that even if one case out of a hundred is false, people presume the other 99 are false too. So what material difference will be made if this Jussie attack is false? People have already proven that they DONT believe victims based on nothing but their own presumptions.

The only damage done is to people who find more shame about unknowingly believing someone who falsely claims being harmed than about the larger social phenomenon that empirically demonstrates that we already don't believe them in the first place
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mutantmagnet

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
turtle553 said:
I'm not talking just this story. Any time things don't line up, people should be able to say so.
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And you can say so without doing so in manner that blames the victim for any possibility they made decisions that lead to their injury. You may disagree with the forums rules on victim blaming but it's not a difficult rule to abide by since it allows you enough room to question events without having to do that.
 
TheGhost

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
The Kree said:
Does anybody care about the ramifications of Jussie potentially lying about a hate crime or do we just wanna dunk on the moderators for correctly banning a group of trolls?
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The ramifications are his career is over.

I'm listening to CNN right now and they just played a interview he did on good morning America I think? He acted and played his role very convincingly. To think that's all fake? He's fucked in the public eye.

That's not even considering IF this is true, he could be facing legal issues as well.
 
Lackless

Lackless

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,137
kmfdmpig said:
If he's officially charged or the police state he orchestrated it then how quickly do the Empire bosses indicate he's off the show? I'd say it'll happen the same day. I can't see them keeping him around after this shit.
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He's already off the show. The showrunners are just waiting a bit to announce it.
 
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