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Oct 27, 2017
7,466
Wow...



Name one other time this has happened by, "people on the left"
Kevin Spacey. Not the me-too story. The mugging story in England about ten years ago. He got caught lying about the circumstances too. That seems minor compared to this story though. Unfortunately for Jussie, if this is true he actually will be written off Empire.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,661
Nobody ever stopped anyone from "thinking critically" is what I'm saying, when you drag victim blaming or casting doubts onto the forum when it's been established that is against the rules (a threadmarked post was even made) people shoudn't be surprised if action is taken
I have never seen anyone so dedicated to shutting down discussion on a discussion forum.
No discussion allowed.
No idea what you mean, we're having a discussion right now
 

EnronERA

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,058
It should be OK to think critically about things that aren't adding up to you, and express that in a post. Questioning things shouldn't be considered bad in and of itself.

Yeah. A hate crime against a gay black man is not something so uncommon that you should doubt it right off the bat, but the details about the story as you heard them you just got more and more suspicious. Everything a little TOO on the nose. And then the inconsistencies, then these leaks. It's only natural to be skeptical at that point and I don't think that's victim blaming at all.
 

truly101

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,245
I didn't follow the thread so I can't speak for the members that were banned. My understanding of victim blaming was to put some responsibility on the person who was attacked as some sort of justification, ie, she shouldn't have worn that outfit, or he shouldn't have gone out at 2 am etc etc. If you're voicing doubt over the circumstances of the story in question, is that what qualified as victim blaming in this case? As mentioned earlier, a gay POC being attacked is unfortunately not an unheard of occurrence. So maybe if you are questioning the circumstances of the attack, you are de-legitimizing the actual event (I guess?) If they did so n bad faith, regardless of hindsight, then I can see why the actions were taken. Again I didn't read the original thread and can't speak on how a mod would handle a situation like this.
 

Kayla

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,316
So people saying this is a "WIN" for the alt right have to be saying this in bad faith right? As if they need an excuse and don't routinely make shit up to smear the left all the time?
 

EnronERA

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,058
Also to those wanting him to go to jail, or to have his career ruined, etc etc. This guy is not well. You've got to be pretty depressed/mentally unwell to want to make up something like this, risking your career and jail just to get some sympathy or attention..so let's not judge him TOO harshly.
 

Novoitus

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,139
Nobody ever stopped anyone from "thinking critically" is what I'm saying, when you drag victim blaming or casting doubts onto the forum when it's been established that is against the rules (a threadmarked post was even made) people shoudn't be surprised if action is taken


No idea what you mean, we're having a discussion right now

Casting doubt is against the rules?
 

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,540
Earth
People are free to think critically about whatever they want, there are no forum rules in your brain.

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but it sound as if you're implying that when a story like this comes out, according to the rules there is only one position users here are allowed to take.

How can anyone have a discussion if that's true?


Like I said, maybe I'm reading this wrong.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
Also to those wanting him to go to jail, or to have his career ruined, etc etc. This guy is not well. You've got to be pretty depressed/mentally unwell to want to make up something like this, risking your career and jail just to get some sympathy or attention..so let's not judge him TOO harshly.

you can say this about any criminal act.

If he orchestrated everything, and then lied to the police about what happened, he should go to jail. That's illegal
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,156
Also to those wanting him to go to jail, or to have his career ruined, etc etc. This guy is not well. You've got to be pretty depressed/mentally unwell to want to make up something like this, risking your career and jail just to get some sympathy or attention..so let's not judge him TOO harshly.
If it is false, I'm pretty sure giving false police statements is a felony. Not saying he should see jail time, as he can get parole since he has no priors, but there are laws in the books against this.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
Also to those wanting him to go to jail, or to have his career ruined, etc etc. This guy is not well. You've got to be pretty depressed/mentally unwell to want to make up something like this, risking your career and jail just to get some sympathy or attention..so let's not judge him TOO harshly.
That's true. But it's also true that what he's accused of is a felony.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,661

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Name one other time this has happened by, "people on the left"
It's happened. It's also absolutely not the norm. False reports for anything are rare, but they are also generally a consistent single % of any type of crime and an inevitability.
People on the right scream false flag for every attack like this so it's not like they should get extra credit when a coincidence lines up.
Yup. There's a big difference between "Some aspects of this are really weird and are causing me to be unable to rule out outlier possibilities" and "lol hate crimes don't exist in 2019 stupid dumbocrats." The former's completely reasonable, the latter is absolutely not.
 

datbapple

Banned
Nov 19, 2017
401
"What members?
birdman2.png
"
Lmao you foul bro
 

turtle553

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,227
User Warned: Inflammatory false equivalencies
This is stupid, right from the beginning this story was a mess. Nothing wrong with having some doubt if it is warranted and this case certainly had some odd stuff about. That being said, I would never berate anyone for believing Jussie from the start considering what POC deal with every day in the US, from law enforcement and regular citizens.

If he did orchestrate the attack, the dumbest part is not hiring two white guys honestly.

There has to be some tolerance for questioning all the details of a story. If he said that space aliens attacked him. Would it be victim blaming to say that seems unlikely?
 

whiskeystrike

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
630
So people saying this is a "WIN" for the alt right have to be saying this in bad faith right? As if they need an excuse and don't routinely make shit up to smear the left all the time?
Yeah, calling it a loss or a win is rubbing me the wrong way... just the idea that people would have preferred the attack to have actually happened for the sake of some imaginary score is a bit unsettling to me.
 

Deleted member 835

User requested account deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,660
Also to those wanting him to go to jail, or to have his career ruined, etc etc. This guy is not well. You've got to be pretty depressed/mentally unwell to want to make up something like this, risking your career and jail just to get some sympathy or attention..so let's not judge him TOO harshly.
How do we know he has mental health issues? Dudes need to stop blaming shit on mental health, he could just be a dickhead.
 

JustinP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,343
Should be true, but unfortunately isn't. If people on the right get -10 every time they're wrong they get +50 every time they're right.

Because from my experience people tend to attribute factual rightness with moral rightness, and value factual rightness more strongly than factual wrongness, if that makes sense.
Yeah pretty much. Which is partly why it's so stupid for people to fake shit like this -- hurts real victims because it hurts the credibility, in the eyes of the public, of all claims.

I haven't really been keeping up with the case but what I'm still confused by is if the two brothers that were arrested were co-conspirators, why were they released so early? Can a cooperation agreement be arranged that fast? Wish we had more official statements.
 

Spaltazar

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,105
the incident sounded like a shitty script from the start, but these days reality really is stranger than fiction, so all bets were off
 

FUME5

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,421
Also to those wanting him to go to jail, or to have his career ruined, etc etc. This guy is not well. You've got to be pretty depressed/mentally unwell to want to make up something like this, risking your career and jail just to get some sympathy or attention..so let's not judge him TOO harshly.

If this turns out to be true, I have no doubt he will pivot to the mental health angle to excuse his actions.
 

Novoitus

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,139

Yeah. I read the mod post. I just don't think "casting doubt" or saying a story isn't making much sense is victim blaming.

To be fair, I only quoted you because you're making an odd stance in this thread. I believe pretty much everyone who got banned in the old thread deserved it - as most of what I saw was genuine victim blaming or just posting for a reason to bitch about the mods.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,736
Tokyo
I think when we are still getting information, it's 100% valid to disuade people from victim blaming.

Hindsight being 20/20, I also think the mods do have stuff to discuss here.

This is all well and good but how could any sincere discussion take place if someone questions a story only to be banned for victim blaming?
Now this story in particular is bizarre as hell, and if he did this to promote his career during the Trump era... I just... god I do not know what I will feel.
 

17 Seconds

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,589
i get that shitbags were looking to doubt this story from the beginning for nefarious reasons, but the inability for some people on here to self-reflect over how this played out is insane.
 
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