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CNN: Bernie Sanders told Elizabeth Warren in private 2018 meeting that a woman can't win, Bernie denies(Update: NYT & Buzzfeed Confirming)
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
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I assure you you are going to be incredibly sad if you think a large chunk of independents are socialists.
Like ridiculously sad.
Maybe because he's closely associated with a modest leftist contigent in the house which happens to be composed entirely of women, most nonwhite?
"John Brown was a terrorist that escalated the tensions between the southern and northern states with his useless raid! How dare Frederick Douglas* praise his actions!"
*In no way, shape or form am I equating CTH with Frederick Douglas.
What is this nonsense? Now you're just making up scenarios where Bernie is ACTUALLY racist and sexist and then saying that his supporters would be down with that (presumably because they are also racist and sexist) to affirm your world view?
This is a shitty line of attack from the Warren camp so yeah...any attempt by her to wiggle out of it is going to be very difficult. That's what happens when you either make something up whole cloth or sensationalize it to the point where it obviously doesn't represent the other person's views.
How DARE you.
Bernie should just drop out, and that is it. Decades of fight for people who are powerless: thrown out the window. He is done. He is not pure enough. Next.
I need to watch this again and again so I can visualize Evil Bernie properly: (start at the timestamp :D)
Hezbollah is an imperialist force that has slaughtered hundreds of thousands of minorities to help Iran gain and maintain control over territory.
Praising their efforts was pretty bad imo.
And then when Hezbollah's efforts helped create the atmosphere that lead to Iran shooting down a plane... Pretty also bad.
What do you think is going to happen when two violent imperialist forces come in conflict with each other. Are you going to praise it.
Biden is actually far worse on this issues than Hillary ever was. But like I said, the entire Democrat party apparatus pushed these policies. Biden was just a part of that, as was Clinton, etc.
Education could explain those results. Far and away most people polled didn't even finish college. They probably would have to be explained on what neoliberalism is, so they're likely unaware of the specifics of the economic model that are the problem.
The questionnaire compounds this. Most think the country is on a good path with the economy. You know, the same economy where most are struggling in. Those numbers drop harshly when the question about if they're doing well comes into play. Further questions show how the uneducated start tainting the numbers, but I'll leave people to actually look at it themselves to see why it starts falling apart. A lack of education and misinformation are the great diseases, and they're unfolding in this specific example in rather clear ways.
Depends. I'm also a minority, and I usually raise an eyebrow unless I know specifically the context and the background of the person saying the quote. That's just me, though.
An average run of a 4 year degree would make you no better at explaining what neoliberalism is. Unclear what you're assertion here is with regards to those who didn't finish a 4 year degree.
'Communist/socialist thought' is fundamentally constitutive of contemporary, mainstream understandings of what labor is and how capitalism functions. Basically every workers' movement of the past ~century and a half has been deeply indebted to the model of capitalism that Marx elaborated; contemporary views of what history is and how power operates is a direct product of Marx's theory of dialectical materialism; even the watered-down pile of pigshit that is the contemporary Democrat platform is, at base, founded on socialist/communist principles.
You know how it's common for workers to have weekends off? That's because of communist thought. You know how we have public education? That's because of communist thought. Minimum wage? A concept of a working class? Wildcat strikes? A culture of civil protest? All of this comes from Marx.
You think that socialist/communist thought is fringe because you (A) have zero concept of what socialist/communist thought is and (B) are incapable of thinking beyond an imagination that's been constrained and stunted by contemporary US electoral politics and all its false horizons. If you want to talk about this stuff, you would really benefit from learning the first thing about it.
I must be missing why this is so bad? I think it's just implying it would be harder for a woman to be elected because regardless of views a good chunk of people would not consider voting for a woman, strictly because they are a woman. It's sad but you know there are a lot of people out there like that. Not a lot of people follow politics that closely. I may be really missing the boat here but this seems like another Hillary deplorables.
Yes. Maybe I should stop posting in this thread, Poe's law is in full effect.
Vast swathes of "leftist" writing is about analysing the present and historical state of things, not directly agitating for or outlining political alternatives, which is why leftists are generally overrepresented in academia compared to the general population (in the modern west at least). A lot of work also builds on/cites "leftist" thought without really being socialist/written by socialists. I don't really care what you read in your spare time, but making a show of announcing that you're deliberately avoiding a substantial proportion of human thought and knowledge is a bit of a weird flex imo.
It's not an argument, it's just my opinion. It's used far too often as a means to deflect from minority issues and is so all encompassing a term that it obfuscates the actual specific issue that need to be addressed. To be clear I don't think that AOC (the tweet above is the reason it struck me to say it) is using it to deflect from the issues she faces, but it's not a good term. I think people should say the actual things they mean like wage gaps, institutional racism, LGBTQ discrimination, etc. instead of wrapping it up in the "identity politics" moniker.
Uhh, so the sample isn't representative or are you just making shit up?
Can't compromise when you're beholden to certain interests.
Intellectual paucity. Half the world pledged itself to a red flag in the twentieth century, how the hell are you going to understand modern development, history, or capitalism itself without understanding its antithesis?
Thank god, I actually regained some faith in humanity by your reply : )
I seldom post but figured I'd offer some insight here as it seems some of you already have your mind made up. I know someone within Warren's inner circle who confirmed to me that the story is not true (Warren's words, not theirs). They are working on a response but are taking measures to mitigate media backlash against their own campaign (because apparently that's the world we live in).
Feel free to take this with a grain of salt. I don't expect people would believe a random person on the internet anyway.
Feel free to take this with a grain of salt. I don't expect people would believe a random person on the internet anyway.
It's almost like political agendas gets infused in the reporting process.
Warren should either confirm or deny this.
It really depends on exactly what was said. Context means a lot and I don't think we can trust the campaign personnel in one camp to speak without bias against another camp, especially if the intent is to be damaging.
I think the issue is people seem to think I'm reading up on a bunch of political literature in my free time and I'm specifically ignoring leftist readings.
When in reality I read political articles, scientific studies and summations and avoid academic political literature entirely lol. If you asked me to read up on any type of ____ literature I would have likely said the same thing, but people asked me about "leftist" literature so that's the answer they got.
I also heard Bernie said he likes Heroes of the Storm more then League of Legends. Confirmed by CNN and this dead rabbit.
I can believe it (but grain of salt yadda yadda). If this isn't coming from the Warren campaign they're probably trying to figure out who it is coming from.
A bunch of these aren't even on quite the same political axis. They asked people to identify as either "progressives" or "environmentalists"? What?
Someone earlier said she'd probably wait for the debate and have an answer ready in case she's questioned about it, but I think sitting on it is a big mistake. If she waits, she'll lose a lot of my respect and she's been my top pick for a while now.
Conventional wisdom is 'don't interrupt you opponent while they're making a mistake'. The big question is if this is Bernie's mistake or Warrens.
I mean shit man, do you read King? Baldwin? Coates? Malcom X?
lol does this thread really include meltdowns over random left twitter users now? c'mon guys don't be quite so transparent
You guys are making "people with Bojack avatars" the new "people with anime avatars." Quit it.
I was already pretty upset about her comments yesterday about Sanders "sending his volunteers" to trash/attack her. About how Sanders is being divisive like he was in 2016. Things that are both wrong and very damaging. Waiting it out to deny this story (if indeed she will deny it at all) makes it look like her camp endorses this story being out there because of the pattern of behavior of the past day or so of her campaign.
If its a left wing crit, its automatically not a right wing crit...i get wanting to know context though due to the prevalence of right wing attacks based on demeaning social justice. But on the left people who critisize identitarian politics are not doing it because they dont care about race or gender issues. on the contrary, its to shine a spotlight on those issues and not give credence to foe strategies that can actually hurt the cause(such as using identity as a cynical political strategy without committing to the work of social justice advocacy and the policy that goes along with that)
Because its something that people have to fight over. Its what the media intended by putting it out there and spreading it around over anonymous sources
All that stuff is wrapped up into social justice for leftists. its considered a different term from "identity politics" in how the term is used
Very simple to find out whose mistake it is: if Bernie would truly say something like this (lets ignore everything that points to the opposite), why would Warren act like nothing like this happened, for the following year(s)? Right.
It's just a regular joke, because Pete looks like a rat and acts like a rat.
I'm not sure what kind of 'scientific studies' you're referring to, but I don't believe that there is any kind of comprehensive political education that doesn't include 'academic political literature,' broadly. Academia has, for some decades now, been where the overwhelming majority of thoughtful, rigorous, critical writing and thought takes place. If you're reading solely pop political writing, you are necessarily getting a very restrained picture of the political world.
The most obvious response to that would be that she had just made an agreement with him not to go after him for sake of progressive causes. Going public would immediately invalidate that.
I highly doubt he said it, but the over morality-check of the progressives will always doom themselves. Bernie stands more on political ground than moral ones, so he'd survive but there's no way he's gonna win the nomination if this turns into a real scandal. Which is sad because it would mean the election would be fought by worse people in both political and moral grounds.
I think you're under the assumption I've never read a single piece of literature or reading on leftist economics? I was under the assumption you were asking me to read like, something that is basically equivalent to Capital
To be fair, there's just as much of a chance you're legit as the anonymous leakers so I'm inclined to believe you seeing as how it affirms my world view.
I don't know if they could win much by saying anything
confirms: will be acused of desperation, maybe even losing voters
denies: will be attacked for a lack of spine
Yea, I think I'm with you on that. She should deal with this now. Cause its just not a good look to let the news cycle digest this just to score political points or make an opponent look bad. We don't need gutter politics. Not until the general at least.
I disagree with any renouncement of "identity politics," because all American politics are identity politics. Including those surrounding "economic" issues, because that's just a nice bow people wrap around things like "I don't want lazy undeserving black people to get welfare/health benefits/etc."
I agree with AOC on a lot of things, but not this term, because it's used to try to focus on pulling away from an explicit focus on the welfare of women and minorities.
I mainly read up on climate studies and read their various summations in their respective media, (Like Carbon Brief for example)
Its not going to help her campaign if they don't come out against this, if thats what they're thinking.
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