Ah yeah that makes sense since it's based on your watch history. I didn't think about that one too far lol
They can probably sell "targeted" ad space for a lot more money than general ones
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CNBC: Apple’s seismic change to the mobile ad industry is drawing near, and it’s rocking the ecosystem
- Thread starter Xando
- Start date
Similar setting for android:
Mobile controls
Ads can be personalized based on the device you're using. You can turn ad personalization on or off through your device's settings. These settings apply to apps that use your mobile device's advertising identifier.
Android iPhone & iPad
From https://support.google.com/ads/answer/1660762?hl=en and https://www.groundtruth.com/reset-a...HOW TO RESET YOUR ANDROID,ID” on the new page.
Mobile controls
Ads can be personalized based on the device you're using. You can turn ad personalization on or off through your device's settings. These settings apply to apps that use your mobile device's advertising identifier.
Android iPhone & iPad
- Open the Google Settings app on your device (called Google Settings or Settings, depending on your device).
- Scroll down and tap Google.
- Tap Ads.
- Turn on Opt out of interest-based ads or Opt out of Ads Personalization.
From https://support.google.com/ads/answer/1660762?hl=en and https://www.groundtruth.com/reset-a...HOW TO RESET YOUR ANDROID,ID” on the new page.
In Android, you can go to Settings -> Privacy -> Advanced -> Ads -> Opt out of Ads Personalization + Reset Advertising ID, but Apple's approach is more robust and granular. Apple will go the extra mile and actually break third-party ad tracking via "Limit Ad Tracking," whereas Google will surreptitiously allow it and give you the illusion of privacy.
Ad companies can still use fingerprinting to track you on iOS, but it's more difficult to accomplish than the status quo (where everything you ever did was monitored and tracked closely). And Apple can still add more features over time to iOS itself to block fingerprinting.
Android on a fundamental level is built on tracking because of how tracking is core to Google's business model. They embed trackers into nearly every app. This does a good job of elucidating it:
Honestly not sure how "seismic" this change is. It still requires each user to individually change these settings and also go check on the privacy stuff themselves. We are way beyond the pale on the Internet when it comes to corporate surveillance that it does not really matter. A few people will do something about it, but the majority simply won't.
We need a much bigger and collective change enforced by governments than whatever "seismic" thing this is.
You know Google and Facebook? They exist solely because of data like this. 90% of their revenue is from harvesting data from users and selling it to advertisers.
We need a much bigger and collective change enforced by governments than whatever "seismic" thing this is.
You know Google and Facebook? They exist solely because of data like this. 90% of their revenue is from harvesting data from users and selling it to advertisers.
Good. I actually bought my first iphone a few months ago. Unfortunately the camera broke in two days so I returned it and got my money back. I went with another Pixel phone for now but things like this make me consider trying another iphone next time.
One thing I really didn't like on my first few days of iphone before it broke was that I couldn't really install the web browser I wanted with ublock origin on it. Is there a way to do that before I take the plunge and buy another iphone in the future? Because seeing what web browsing actually looks like on the iphone without ublock was horrifying to me lol
One thing I really didn't like on my first few days of iphone before it broke was that I couldn't really install the web browser I wanted with ublock origin on it. Is there a way to do that before I take the plunge and buy another iphone in the future? Because seeing what web browsing actually looks like on the iphone without ublock was horrifying to me lol
How much of that is personally identifiable?
Genuinely curious. I dont mind anonymized data collection. And they don't want to actually sell the data, they want to sell conclusions they have reached from the data, right?
OP
OP
This is a cop out because they might not sell your individual data but they do sell your profile based on your data
Google Says It Doesn’t 'Sell' Your Data. Here’s How the Company Shares, Monetizes, and Exploits It.
"Google will never sell any personal information to third parties; and you get to decide how your information is used." - Sundar Pichai Sound familiar? Although big tech companies like Google keep the lights on by harvesting and monetizing your personal data, they can be quick to mince words and...
They claim "oh, we protect people's privacy, no one looks at your data directly and we don't sell your data" but this is how they get around that with a loophole:
1. Google harvests mass amounts of data from you, including your real-time precise locations and your conversations. Even if you "opt out" of tracking, there's still data sent unless you heavily mod your phone.
2. Google uses sophisticated AI algorithms to scan the data en masse and build a shadow profile about you
3. Google uses the AI-built shadow profile to predict your future behavior and patterns that people will pay to know, like who you're going to vote for, what schools are you thinking of going to, what websites will you visit in the future, when you'll next go grocery shopping, when you'll next go to Chik-Fil-A, when you'll move to a new area, when + where you'll go on vacation, etc.
4. Google sells these predictions to market research + analytics companies and makes billions a year off of them. It's gold to real estate developers, companies looking to open new franchises, political think-tanks who need something more reliable than polling, etc.
It's pseudo-anonymous. Google may omit your name + personal identifiers from the data it sells, but it sells YOU and YOUR life on a fundamental level.
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Boo hoo.
Good on Apple for this change. They do some things I don't agree with (see Xcloud), but this is undoubtedly a benefit for iOS users.
Google and Facebook are the equivalent to billboard owners. Really high tech billboard owners. They can tell advertisers who is exactly in the car at the red light staring at the billboard, what their interests are, and then sell that billboard to the highest bidder within that moment to display to the driver before the light turns green. They don't sell the data specifically but they share your persona so brands that align with that persona can bid on the advertising space.
It's kind of fucked up. I'd almost rather they just sell my data.
The ecommerce company I work for is significantly involved in data capture and I've a direct role in automating customer analytics using tracking data where applicable, and this will definitely hit us, but it's absolutely the right and ethical thing to do.
The direct ads you see are not what enables most of the power, and most of it is incredibly subtle (e.g. you might not realise certain aspects are being tailored specifically to your device), incredibly powerful, and the results are not only measurable but can be consistently optimised. The more advanced the data science team is, the more powerful the effect ends up being. Yes there are a large portion of companies with poor data science capabilities which drives simple models based on prior behaviour and lookalike audiences, but the larger the company the more powerful there capabilities are and the more subtle the influence is.
This is generalised (i.e. drawing from a few different ecommerce websites), but I can build a complete profile of customers who've opted in, I can assess how they feel about a variety of brands and various price points based on your social media usage and/or feedback comments/reviews, I can understand what sort of messaging appeals to you best and is most likely to trigger some type of response (engagement, session growth, conversion), understand what you've previously purchased (based on previous transaction behaviour) and what you are most likely to purchase next (based on tracking your website behaviour such as what products you browse for the most length of time and how you've found the website), and either show you ads on Facebook/Google specific to your behaviour with an image [e.g. product, model, colour, etc.] and text designed specifically to most likely trigger you to convert), target you at the time when you're most likely to transact, send you a notification when you're in a vicinity likely to trigger a purchase, and when you visit the website you'll see specific recommendations and tailored search results based on what you're most likely to convert or engage with, and based on what you've done I can target people with similar behaviour to you who haven't even visited our website by getting Google and Facebook to target similar demographics.
The direct ads you see are not what enables most of the power, and most of it is incredibly subtle (e.g. you might not realise certain aspects are being tailored specifically to your device), incredibly powerful, and the results are not only measurable but can be consistently optimised. The more advanced the data science team is, the more powerful the effect ends up being. Yes there are a large portion of companies with poor data science capabilities which drives simple models based on prior behaviour and lookalike audiences, but the larger the company the more powerful there capabilities are and the more subtle the influence is.
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I never owned an Apple product in my life and I am seriously considering this too.
I think Andriod and iOS are trending in the opposite directions when it comes to privacy, I suspect the gap between the two OSes on this issue will only grow larger.
Yeah, all that sounds fine to me. They aren't selling access to my location, they are selling info to advertisers looking to target people in certain areas.
When I see people portray it the way you have it rings as fear mongering. Being shown relevant ads isn't bad. Its actually nice! It has the ability to make advertising relevant rather just annoying. And helping other companies do a better job is good too. Like if people buy the house it means they wanted the house.
It should just be more consumer friendly and forward facing obviously. But very little of what happens scares me because its all in an attempt to sell me something. The ceiling of fear for that is pretty low for me I guess. Build all the systems you want, once it gets in front if me I have to choose to buy it or not.
Why does Apple not build a shadow profile? From conversations/messages/location? If its worth billions, why isn't there shareholder pressure?
But then, they'll try to use this as a reason to strike down the App Store "monopoly", which would immediately undermine all these privacy efforts.
I agree theres a ton more that needs to be done. However, it is still a big change. Users won't have to go looking for the setting, you get a "allow tracking" or "dont allow tracking" prompt when you start an app up. And, unlike the Agree/Dont agree prompts we're use to, the apps won't be allowed to lock out a user that chooses not to allow tracking.
Will apple apps play by the same rules? What about iOS?
In other words, is Apple doing this for consumers or is Apple doing this to hurt competing ad platforms (fb, google, etc)? The answer can be the latter and still be a net positive for consumers. I am trying to understand the full context though.
In other words, is Apple doing this for consumers or is Apple doing this to hurt competing ad platforms (fb, google, etc)? The answer can be the latter and still be a net positive for consumers. I am trying to understand the full context though.
This is a cop out because they might not sell your individual data but they do sell your profile based on your data
Google Says It Doesn’t 'Sell' Your Data. Here’s How the Company Shares, Monetizes, and Exploits It.
"Google will never sell any personal information to third parties; and you get to decide how your information is used." - Sundar Pichai Sound familiar? Although big tech companies like Google keep the lights on by harvesting and monetizing your personal data, they can be quick to mince words and...www.eff.org
It's not a cop out; it's the entire point. Selling a profile based on your data is not some overly pedantic distinction. It's a capital-e Extremely different thing. The fact that people keep conflating the two leads to poor discussion of what the effects that moves like Apple's are actually having.
Apple is not an ad company, they make their money selling hardware.
The don't have the same incentives as Google, whose entire business model is monetizing personal information.
Apple is not an advertising company. They don't need to engage in this system on such a massive scale and in fact, if you look at it cynically, their public-facing emphasis on privacy and transparency can only hurt the companies they're competing with.
Think about it for a second. Google can build a map that shows everyone's location in real-time. Hundreds of millions of people in the USA and billions of people all across the world can be tracked precisely on a map in REAL-TIME. They can watch Nicktals drive to the grocery store, then watch you drive to your friend John's house, then watch you drive home.
Should any one corporation ever have that much power? Should mass surveillance ever be an accepted part of our society? What if it spirals out of control to where they can start subtly controlling and manipulating you? Do we TRUST Google to responsibly wield that much power when they are a ruthless machine that is spiraling out of control? I certainly do not, because I understand how they operate. Even internal whistleblowers at Google can't stop the relentless pursuit of growth over ethics.
If you opt out of all data collection, Google still records and monitors every single place you go. The only way to ensure that your location data is safe from monetization is to mod your phone heavily, or stop carrying your smartphone with you everywhere.
Google Still Stores Location Data Even if Users Opt Out
Billions of phones could be affected, according to the Associated Press.
www.adweek.com
I don't trust Apple either. I don't trust any big corporation because you are correct, they have a fiduciary duty to shareholders for short-term profit maximization. The only reason why Apple hasn't gone in this direction is because other avenues have allowed them to realize massive growth instead. There's nothing stopping them from reversing course in the future and expanding their surveillance tactics but their word, and companies change over time. Apple is not infallible either, like when they had contractors listening to private Siri recordings.
Well they are kinda are via the software/service they offer. You trade your data for their software/service. Which is fine as a business model except for the longest time they've gotten away with pretending that wasn't the business model. Or maybe not pretending but obfuscating it was. These companies have not been upfront about this except in hundred page long privacy and terms of service agreements.
"Gmail is free", "Facebook is free", etc.
Now they need to start being upfront about it. I love that. Let consumers make the decision whether your software/service is worth the data they give up.
Here's why I trust Apple more than the rest. Their business model. It's upfront. Buy our overpriced products and services. Be stuck in our ecosystem. They want you to pay for things. It's not the ad model.
So at least I know every shitty thing Apple does is in service to that business model. Like having contractors listening to private Siri recordings wasn't about selling that data (like the other big tech giants), it was about improving Siri so they can convince people who like Google Assistant/Cortana/Alexa to buy their overpriced products.
If all of sudden Apple products started becoming cheaper and cheaper, I would start to be worried.
EDIT - Apple also bends to China more than the other big 3, so if I was in Hong Kong or any relation to China, I would be worried about how data was being used.
Think about it for a second. Google can build a map that shows everyone's location in real-time. Hundreds of millions of people in the USA and billions of people all across the world can be tracked precisely on a map in REAL-TIME. They can watch Nicktals drive to the grocery store, then watch you drive to your friend John's house, then watch you drive home.
Should any one corporation ever have that much power? Should mass surveillance ever be an accepted part of our society? What if it spirals out of control to where they can start subtly controlling and manipulating you? Do we TRUST Google to responsibly wield that much power when they are a ruthless machine that is spiraling out of control? I certainly do not, because I understand how they operate. Even internal whistleblowers at Google can't stop the relentless pursuit of growth over ethics.
If you opt out of all data collection, Google still records and monitors every single place you go. The only way to ensure that your location data is safe from monetization is to mod your phone heavily, or stop carrying your smartphone with you everywhere.
Google Still Stores Location Data Even if Users Opt Out
Billions of phones could be affected, according to the Associated Press.
I don't trust Apple either. I don't trust any big corporation because you are correct, they have a fiduciary duty to shareholders for short-term profit maximization. The only reason why Apple hasn't gone in this direction is because other avenues have allowed them to realize massive growth instead. There's nothing stopping them from reversing course in the future and expanding their surveillance tactics but their word, and companies change over time. Apple is not infallible either, like when they had contractors listening to private Siri recordings.
And what do they, and what can they, do with the knowledge that I went to the store then to my friends house?
Whats the boogeyman I'm supposed to be afraid of? Because targeting me with ads for stuff to buy isn't scary.
How are they going to start subtly controlling and manipulate me? That's the part I'm curious on. Does it extend beyond my purchasing habits?
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Ah yes, didn't consider this.
Damn. I just switched to Android last year because it was feeling stale/limited 😒 Guess the UI is more flexible as of this year, though. I could see myself going back.
You can do it on Android as well. I don't remember the exact setting details but it's doable there too. Is always been switchable everywhere, it's just that it used to be turned on by default and now it will be off per app unless you allow it.
This sucks as a non-apple devices user. Whenever apple makes these kind of changes the knock-on effects generally are bad for other ecosystems.
Before apple introduced ad blocking, you could visit pretty much any site and enjoy an ad free experience. Now pretty much every site has a pop up for a subscription, a free account or to turn off ad blocking.
Before apple introduced ad blocking, you could visit pretty much any site and enjoy an ad free experience. Now pretty much every site has a pop up for a subscription, a free account or to turn off ad blocking.
I'm no fan of apple but yeah, this is exactly the kind of thing that makes me want to switch back to an iPhone the next time I'm due for an upgrade.
I think most people are misunderstanding where the money is. No one cares who you are and want to track you. What they do is find out which user ID buys inapp purchases in other games and how much they spend in those games. Selling ads for users who are known to spend money in other games costs more than to players who never buy anything. On IOS, the ID used to know the paying user across apps is called IDFA. Without that ID, apps can't tell whether you're a paying user or not so the ad prices per user goes down as you don't know who would be more likely to buy from your game or not and seeing as only 1% of players actually spend money in games, that knowledge is highly sought after.
Apps need to prompt users directly when they open the app for the first time. Based on some industry numbers I've seen so far, it is likely that 80-90% of users opt out of tracking. Unsurprising when the question being posed is essentially "do you want this app to track you?"
That is likely to impact app makers on two fronts. For those that monetize ads in apps, a lower volume of targeted advertising means less valuable ads (lower eCPMs), which means lower revenues for the same overall number of users. For those that rely on paid user acquisition (ads that drive people to install specific apps), it will be both harder to find the right audience AND it will be harder to track the performance of acquired users meaning achieving reliable positive ROI will be extremely difficult.
Our company does both, so we are expecting to take somewhat of a hit. Neither underpins our business though, so we'll happily survive. It may even be the case with the paid user acquisition that we do that we end up performing better if the bottom drops out of the market and paying for installs becomes cheap (we saw a bit of this when a lot of brands and physical service apps like Uber pulled out of the ad market when the first wave of COVID hit).
Nobody in the industry really knows how things will pan out though as there are still a lot of unanswered questions about how some things will work, how things will be enforced, and how users actually end up responding.
Given Apple's privacy stance in general, they're doing this for consumers (and to give their phones another selling point).
That said, part of the calculation is probably that their whole business model isn't built around selling customer data, unlike Google, so it will be hard for Google to bite this bullet.
Part of the calculation is probably also just being comparatively less evil in this regard than other tech companies... not to not be evil.
As a macOS user, I've always had to find reasons NOT to get an iPhone, and they've basically run out now. My Pixel 2XL literally just got its final update from Google, so I suspect I'll be looking to jump over to iOS next year.
Hmmmmm, been an android lifer, but this is definitely intriguing. The switch may be coming, so sick of predatory and invasive ads. If I looked up fruit of the loom drawers on Wal Mart, I will buy them when ready. I don't need reminders on IG, Youtube, Facebook etc;
I just grabbed the Iphone 12. I haven't set it up yet but I cannot wait to see the oled screen. I would have held out until the end of the Pixel 3 updates but my issue is too much of nuisance to bother.
Yep, I'm already planning to make the switch next year. This isn't the only reason, but privacy is one of a few motivating factors.
Apple certainly has an ad platform that they are building up to compete with google and facebook. Just because it is new and Apple has other revenue sources doesn't mean they don't want to maximize profits using all tools available to them.
Thank you, I appreciate the longer write up. I was mostly speaking from an experience as an end-user, but I now see how this impacts the business-side of things. Thanks again for writing this up, it clarifies a lot.
This is one of the biggest reasons I stick with iPhones.
Because selling "security" with upcoming features like this is worth billions opposite of that.
Because selling "security" with upcoming features like this is worth billions opposite of that.
Makes sense, and I'll be interested to see how you get on. I haven't used iOS in about seven years, but I've now been disappointed by the longevity of four different Google phones (Nexus 5, Nexus 5X, Nexus 6, and Pixel 2XL) which is worlds apart from my experience with the Apple devices I do use, i.e. my laptops.
All those previous phones had hardware failures after about two years, and now my 2XL has a broken power button after two and a half. It's annoying, because it only works about 30% of the time, but not annoying enough to go out and buy a new phone just yet. I'll probably see if I can reach the iPhone 13 launch without my Pixel giving up completely.