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Deleted member 42

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Remember this came up in a few threads earlier, like the one where Philadelphia banned cashless stores like this one, citing discrimination against poor people/people who can't use cashless systems. Selected quotes below.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/10/ama...that-go-stores-will-start-accepting-cash.html

Amazon Go stores, which let customers buy items without waiting in checkout lines, will start accepting cash, amid intensifying criticism that the company is discriminating against the unbanked.

In an internal all-hands meeting last month, Steve Kessel, Amazon's senior vice president of physical stores, told employees that the company plans "additional payment mechanisms" at its Go stores. Kessel was responding to a question about how Amazon plans to address "discrimination and elitism" at the cashierless stores, which charge purchases using an app connected to a bank or credit card.

Kessel highlighted some of the new payment methods Amazon has recently added to its site, including a pilot that accepts government subsidized SNAP benefits and a new program called Amazon Cash, which lets users add cash to their digital accounts by bringing money to a local store like 7-Eleven or CVS.

"We're in earlier days but it's an important focus for us and we'll continue to extend those methods with our stores," Kessel said at the meeting, a recording of which was heard by CNBC. Kessel didn't provide a time frame for the changes or specifically say what the company will do.

The company has 10 Amazon Go stores, and Bloomberg reported in September that the company is considering opening up to 3,000 cashierless stores by 2021.

Philadelphia last month became the first major U.S. city to ban cashless stores despite Amazon's reported attempt to block the law. The state of New Jersey followed a couple weeks later, and cities like New York, San Francisco and Chicago are considering similar laws. Massachusetts has had a law in place for decades requiring stores to accept cash.
 

Deleted member 7051

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Oct 25, 2017
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Oh huh. I didn't realise they were cashierless. I thought they were just cashless. So there's no staff to scan your purchases and whatnot, either? What about older people who need help packing?

That makes it an even bigger deal than just "you can't use cash here".
 

Ocean

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Oct 25, 2017
3,691
Cash is so impractical, I struggle to understand why anybody would actively insist on using it.
 

Slayven

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Oct 25, 2017
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Good, being too poor to spend money can be a real thing
 

Deleted member 3058

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Cash is so impractical, I struggle to understand why anybody would actively insist on using it.
In America, it's entirely possible to be too poor to afford a checking account but still *ahem* have the need to buy groceries.

Cashless stores fuck over those customers.

Edit:
Oh huh. I didn't realise they were cashierless. I thought they were just cashless. So there's no staff to scan your purchases and whatnot, either? What about older people who need help packing?

That makes it an even bigger deal than just "you can't use cash here".
Yeah, I haven't heard an acceptable answer to this concern.
 

Kill3r7

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Oct 25, 2017
24,403
I am surprised they opted to go this route. They could have made it exclusive to Prime members and thus circumvented the current laws that mandate cash acceptance.
 

Deleted member 25870

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Cash is so impractical, I struggle to understand why anybody would actively insist on using it.
There are some establishments that I frequent where I would never swipe my cards. I'm not saying this relates directly to Amazon Go stores, but cash has its uses and counting out a few bills is a hell of a lot more convenient than calling the bank or credit card provider because someone's shop keeps loosing credit card numbers.
 

Aurongel

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Oct 28, 2017
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I was under the impression that their GO stores were already cashier-less?

Regardless, this is great news for the vast majority of people out there. The only places where I hear anti-cash arguments/judgments are urban yuppie social bubbles.
 

Bookoo

Member
Nov 3, 2017
970
Oh huh. I didn't realise they were cashierless. I thought they were just cashless. So there's no staff to scan your purchases and whatnot, either? What about older people who need help packing?

That makes it an even bigger deal than just "you can't use cash here".

I believe the way it worked was that you badged in somehow and then it just tracked what you picked up and automatically charged your Amazon account as you left.
 

Ocean

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,691
In America, it's entirely possible to be too poor to afford a checking account but still *ahem* have the need to buy groceries.

Cashless stores fuck over those customers.
How expensive is it to have a checking account in the States? I'm not trying to be a troll or anything, genuinely curious.

At any rate, two thoughts:

1. I don't think a cashless store is a problem that should be legislated into oblivion. A system where some people are unbanked? That's a real issue. Regulators should focus on making sure everybody has access to a bank account rather than this sort of thing.

2. It might be unfair, but is it really discriminatory? This would suggest an expensive restaurant is also discriminatory because poor people can't afford to go there. Nobody is calling for expensive restaurants to be forbidden by law. The solution in that case is "well go somewhere else", which doesn't seem to be an acceptable option for the Amazon scenario despite sounding awfully similar. Am I missing something?
 

plagiarize

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Oct 25, 2017
27,511
Cape Cod, MA
How expensive is it to have a checking account in the States? I'm not trying to be a troll or anything, genuinely curious.

At any rate, two thoughts:

1. I don't think a cashless store is a problem that should be legislated into oblivion. A system where some people are unbanked? That's a real issue. Regulators should focus on making sure everybody has access to a bank account rather than this sort of thing.

2. It might be unfair, but is it really discriminatory? This would suggest an expensive restaurant is also discriminatory because poor people can't afford to go there. Nobody is calling for expensive restaurants to be forbidden by law. The solution in that case is "well go somewhere else", which doesn't seem to be an acceptable option for the Amazon scenario despite sounding awfully similar. Am I missing something?
It fucks homeless people.

It fucks undocumented immigrants.
 

Relix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,219
Another step back. Sucks.

regarding checking accounts, there's a multitude of places you can get a free one with a visa debit card. Check a credit union. It's of no excuse.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,403
Another step back. Sucks.

regarding checking accounts, there's a multitude of places you can get a free one with a visa debit card. Check a credit union. It's of no excuse.

Millions don't qualify due to lack of permanent address, age or legal status. The folks who live in the margins.
 

Kill3r7

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Oct 25, 2017
24,403
I guess I never thought of cashless as discrimination. Does that mean all online stores discriminate too? I'm just curious where the line is.

This is an interesting situation since Amazon Go requires an app/account to shop there. So unless they will have devices available for people to use many cash shoppers will have a hard time doing so.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 42

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Oct 24, 2017
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Worth pointing out that Amazon Go stores generally have staff on hand anyways, it'll likely be something where you go up to a spot for cash customers and they'll help you.

If you're an Amazon member it'll still work the same way, you just scan your phone when you roll in, grab what you want, then dip

So for the bougie in me it's great
For the 'stop fucking poor people over' part of me it was hella bad

I am surprised they opted to go this route. They could have made it exclusive to Prime members and thus circumvented the current laws that mandate cash acceptance.

Amazon wants to make 3000 of these stores in 2 years and this was the first real big hurdle to jump for that
 

Slayven

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Oct 25, 2017
93,051
I believe we should be striving to move to a cardless society. I don't see how other countries can do it but we can't. Then again I can't see why we can't have free health care for everyone so there's that too.
Well for one thing other countries have viable safety nets that mitigated the fundamental issues with cashless stores present.
 

RJeddy

Member
Dec 4, 2017
721
This is an interesting situation since Amazon Go requires an app/account to shop there. So unless they will have devices available for people to use many cash shoppers will have a hard time doing so.
How is that different from a place like Costco that requires a membership to shop at? This just does that but removes cash from the equation?
 

Slayven

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Oct 25, 2017
93,051
Worth pointing out that Amazon Go stores generally have staff on hand anyways, it'll likely be something where you go up to a spot for cash customers and they'll help you.

If you're an Amazon member it'll still work the same way, you just scan your phone when you roll in, grab what you want, then dip

So for the bougie in me it's great
For the 'stop fucking poor people over' part of me it was hella bad



Amazon wants to make 3000 of these stores in 2 years and this was the first real big hurdle to jump for that
And they can't put all 3000 in post gentrified areas, some of them might be in the god forbid suburbs
 

CopyOfACopy

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Oct 27, 2017
2,040
Should adopt the use of a smart card instead of relying on cash

Users can go to a kiosk to "buy" a smart card which in turn can be used for electronic purchases

Basically digital cash not tied to a specific service

Was in japan recently and their PASMO card has a bunch of this functionality
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 42

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Oct 24, 2017
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USA should adopt the use of a smart card instead of relying on cash

Users can go to a kiosk to "buy" a smart card which in turn can be used for electronic purchases

Basically digital cash not tied to a specific service

Was in japan recently and their PASMO card has a bunch of this functionality

While Japan does have a ton of that stuff, they're also very big on cash/cash only businesses
 

Kill3r7

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Oct 25, 2017
24,403
How is that different from a place like Costco that requires a membership to shop at? This just does that but removes cash from the equation?

Costco accepts cash, although they are exempt because they are a price club. They don't have to accept cash but they choose to do so. Amazon Go was a "gray area" from a legal perspective since it is not exclusive to Prime members. Thus, by opting to accept cash they are conceding the point that they should be exempt. Where they also differ from Costco and any other B&M merchant is that you need the app to actually shop.
 

Hollywood Duo

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Oct 25, 2017
41,841
Should adopt the use of a smart card instead of relying on cash

Users can go to a kiosk to "buy" a smart card which in turn can be used for electronic purchases

Basically digital cash not tied to a specific service

Was in japan recently and their PASMO card has a bunch of this functionality
That is certainly an option but that seems more cumbersome than just having a cashier for the 1 in 100 people who want to use cash.
The point it being is that it isn't unreasonable for them to accept cast. The customer is right there, the product is right there, so why create artificial hops?
No doubt, just take the cash, that's the whole point of paper currency
 

Deleted member 3058

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But it's not like they're the only store around.
How expensive is it to have a checking account in the States? I'm not trying to be a troll or anything, genuinely curious.

At any rate, two thoughts:

1. I don't think a cashless store is a problem that should be legislated into oblivion. A system where some people are unbanked? That's a real issue. Regulators should focus on making sure everybody has access to a bank account rather than this sort of thing.

2. It might be unfair, but is it really discriminatory? This would suggest an expensive restaurant is also discriminatory because poor people can't afford to go there. Nobody is calling for expensive restaurants to be forbidden by law. The solution in that case is "well go somewhere else", which doesn't seem to be an acceptable option for the Amazon scenario despite sounding awfully similar. Am I missing something?
Most checking accounts charge you a fee unless you maintain a minimum balance, or a minimum number of deposits, that are above the means of a TON of people.

Also:
It fucks homeless people.

It fucks undocumented immigrants.
.



I'm pretty good right now, but 11 or 14 years ago? This store would have fucked me over big time. 13 years ago I was homeless. How the fuck would I have been able to pay for anything in that store back then?

Maybe it's because I've been so close to this shit and I know how hard it is for people who struggle. I refuse to accept these so called "advancements" that leave the underprivileged in the fucking dust.

Miss me with that bullshit.
 

Deleted member 2171

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Oct 25, 2017
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Another step back. Sucks.

regarding checking accounts, there's a multitude of places you can get a free one with a visa debit card. Check a credit union. It's of no excuse.

Or you can't because Republican policies have made it unaffordable to even get the supporting documents to open a bank account via any method, and no those cards aren't an answer because they fee you out the ass to even use them

many people have to live without accounts of any kind, even if they want one. it can come down to eating or having a bank account.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,277
How expensive is it to have a checking account in the States? I'm not trying to be a troll or anything, genuinely curious.

At any rate, two thoughts:

1. I don't think a cashless store is a problem that should be legislated into oblivion. A system where some people are unbanked? That's a real issue. Regulators should focus on making sure everybody has access to a bank account rather than this sort of thing.

2. It might be unfair, but is it really discriminatory? This would suggest an expensive restaurant is also discriminatory because poor people can't afford to go there. Nobody is calling for expensive restaurants to be forbidden by law. The solution in that case is "well go somewhere else", which doesn't seem to be an acceptable option for the Amazon scenario despite sounding awfully similar. Am I missing something?

America runs on capitalism. Most commercial banks fucking charge you to have an account if you don't make minimum deposits in certain increments by certain times.

Fucking charging you for keep YOUR money with them, then also dumb fees to profit off of you.

There are credit unions which avoid this issue, but you lose accessibility in a few ways.

Cash will always be the great equalizer to make sure everyone has economic access, Digital Money/Banking discriminates heavily
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
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Oct 25, 2017
93,051
Most checking accounts charge you a fee unless you maintain a minimum balance, or a minimum number of deposits, that are above the means of a TON of people.

Also:

.



I'm pretty good right now, but 11 or 14 years ago? This store would have fucked me over big time. 13 years ago I was homeless. How the fuck would I have been able to pay for anything in that store back then?

Maybe it's because I've been so close to this shit and I know how hard it is for people who struggle. I refuse to accept these so called "advancements" that leave the underprivileged in the fucking dust.

Miss me with that bullshit.
These conversations always irk me, because empathy goes out the window because folks want to live like star trek
 

HStallion

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Oct 25, 2017
62,262
I don't think an Amazon Go store is ever going to be in a location that it's the only option, at least for a long time. They're very much usually located in large populace areas.

Did you read the OP? Amazon wants to open thousands of these stores across the country within a few years. If your only major grocery store doesn't take your only method of payment, that's fucked.
 

Kthulhu

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Oct 25, 2017
14,670
This is an interesting situation since Amazon Go requires an app/account to shop there. So unless they will have devices available for people to use many cash shoppers will have a hard time doing so.

I believe they have devices you can use in place of a phone in the event of your phone dying out something.
 

Deleted member 2171

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And you know there would be a "fee" for those cards

5$ to activate, 10$ if you don't use it enough in a month, 2.50$ per transaction, 3.50$ per atm withdrawl is one a friend had to use

my personal bank account will start dinging 10$ a month if you don't use the card something like 20 times a month or if you have a minimum balance of 2,000$.

we really need banks to get regulated like a motherfucker very soon
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 42

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Oct 24, 2017
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Costco is legally required to provide certain services without a membership, mainly the pharmacy.

Also this stuff basically flies in the face of a business being 'oh we don't want your money, it's in a different form than what we want'

Nah chief, they want your money. Costco has that official policy, but if you roll in and wanna buy stuff they're usually not gonna care if it's a one-off
 

Deleted member 2171

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I've literally had times in my life where I had to go to walmart and make repeated 20 or 50 cent transactions because the choice was to either lose 3$ to grind the min transaction amount and at least have something to show for it or lose 10$ to the bank because I was using them to you know, save money in