As someone who liked the game quite a bit, I don't see how putting it on a console with half the install base would have helped.
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Cliffy B: Putting Lawbreakers on PS4 instead of Xbox was a mistake
- Thread starter Ehoavash
- Start date
Jazz Jackrabbit, Unreal, Unreal Tournament, the first three highly acclaimed Gears games...
what a hack!
He had made a name for himself before Gears 1 via Jazz Jackrabbit and Unreal games, and after Gears 1 he made Gears 2 and Gears 3 both of which were considered to be superior games. Hardly and example of luck and failing upwards, dude is bonafide...regardless of his antics and public persona.
You don't get lucky that often. Saying that he wasn't a good designer is really not understanding his body of work. I remember the website he hosted in the Unreal days, where he'd give design feedback on levels people made and that was always pretty well-thought-out critique. He obviously understood game design very well, probably better than most designers out there. So taking that away from the man seems a bit shitty.
If Cliffy would wanna work for Moon as a designer, I'd hire him in a heartbeat, cause he obviously has the chops. The taste thing and the "I'm a total celebrity, bro!" thing would make me want to punch him day in and day out, but saying that he 'got lucky' as a designer is a bit ridiculous.
Of course it is not a crazy reasoning.
He is not saying that it would have been a huge success that way - and most probably it would have still tanked... - yet in terms of push for the game the "From the maker of Gears of War" would have been received in a completely different way on Xbox One instead of PlayStation 4. Maybe inverting the order of the supported platforms - also considering that PS4 at the time had more contenders.
Now, a better reasoning would have been "I should have made Lawbreakers free to play", before taking into consideration any platform discussion.
And, as usual, CliffyB is treated quite badly here in ResetEra.
Every few months Cliffy says something controversial on twitter about this game.
The thing is, I haven't seen any tweet in which he recognizes he did something wrong or that the game wasn't appealing.
"this other guy chose to launch the game on ps4, it is his fault"
"the game was too woke, the problem is in the gamers who didn't buy it"
"the problem is overwatch"
"the publisher wanted a f2p but muh microtransactions, 29.99, not 60 dollar multiplayer only bullshit"
The thing is, I haven't seen any tweet in which he recognizes he did something wrong or that the game wasn't appealing.
"this other guy chose to launch the game on ps4, it is his fault"
"the game was too woke, the problem is in the gamers who didn't buy it"
"the problem is overwatch"
"the publisher wanted a f2p but muh microtransactions, 29.99, not 60 dollar multiplayer only bullshit"
the characters in the game lacked any sort of appeal. The main reason overwatch was so successful is 1 blizzard and 2 interesting/memorable characters (and yes, even sex appeal). Without either of those 2 it would have flopped.
I think this would have turned out more like Bleeding Edge than Sea of Thieves. It was a game no-one really asked for in a crowded market place which had a flat launch and couldn't recover. Sea of Thieves at least had a pretty strong launch and a unique hook.
Semi-OT: it is just me or I seem to remember another shooter published on PS4 just before Lawbreakers?
I seem to remember that the title had something with "blue" but I can't find it.
No, it is not Warframe.
I seem to remember that the title had something with "blue" but I can't find it.
No, it is not Warframe.
I don't know which would be worse: having to play Law Breakers or reading a book written by Cliify B.
With the overwhelmingly popular F2P Battle Royale of Fortnite releasing just a month later, Lawbreakers had no hope even if it had released on every device around the world.
I'm sure it's easier for him to believe this was a factor rather than the game itself just not being very interesting to a wide audience.
Cliffy B should go back to Epic. He's been a mess since he left.
I was a fan of his work and played the beta on ps4 - wasn't impressed and so I didn't buy the game. Simple as that. I'm sure I wasn't the only one.
I was a fan of his work and played the beta on ps4 - wasn't impressed and so I didn't buy the game. Simple as that. I'm sure I wasn't the only one.
By all accounts it was a good game. I'd have definately given it a fair shake if it had been F2P as originally intended.
Personally I was out the moment they shifted from that model, that was a fatal mistake I feel. I wasn't about to buy another team based character shooter whilst owning Overwatch. I imagine a lot of people felt that way.
Also the marketing wasn't great, but again, that wouldn't have mattered as much if it was F2P.
Personally I was out the moment they shifted from that model, that was a fatal mistake I feel. I wasn't about to buy another team based character shooter whilst owning Overwatch. I imagine a lot of people felt that way.
Also the marketing wasn't great, but again, that wouldn't have mattered as much if it was F2P.
Honestly lawbreakers was a really well made game. Mechanically superior to overwatch.
Just had awful marketing.
I don't think anybody in 2017 really cared about CliffyB enough to buy or play a game with his name on it regardless of the console. Plenty of Gears of War 1 fans had jumped to PS4 as their primary console this gen, just by the numbers its likely in the millions of players (e.g., Xbox 360 sales advantage over PS3 for most of the generation, versus PS4's sales advantage over Xbox One for most of this generation).
The game was a commercial flop outside of what console it launched on. If it launched on both consoles with cross play it probably would have performed better, of course, but if that's not an option because of resources then I don't think it really matters.
Eh, CliffyB was already very well known and successful in the industry by the time Gears of War came out. He's definitely a talented guy who struck success as many times as most well known directors... Jazz, Unreal, Unreal Tournament, Gears series, and Bulletstorm are all titles he was important in developing... He also worked with the team on Shadow Complex and SuperHot. As far as videogame personalities go, he's very successful. Lawbreakers was his first legit flop, but it's also the first game he directed since coming back out of retirement... and it's tough to launch a multiplayer shooter these days, there's way more flops than runaway hits.
He always had his finger on the pulse of what the gaming industry wanted to play at the moment, usually a step ahead of others, but like most people who are now in middle age you can fall into a rut... and telling what 16-30 year olds might be into when you're 45 is harder than when you're 18-30 yourself.
The game was a commercial flop outside of what console it launched on. If it launched on both consoles with cross play it probably would have performed better, of course, but if that's not an option because of resources then I don't think it really matters.
Eh, CliffyB was already very well known and successful in the industry by the time Gears of War came out. He's definitely a talented guy who struck success as many times as most well known directors... Jazz, Unreal, Unreal Tournament, Gears series, and Bulletstorm are all titles he was important in developing... He also worked with the team on Shadow Complex and SuperHot. As far as videogame personalities go, he's very successful. Lawbreakers was his first legit flop, but it's also the first game he directed since coming back out of retirement... and it's tough to launch a multiplayer shooter these days, there's way more flops than runaway hits.
He always had his finger on the pulse of what the gaming industry wanted to play at the moment, usually a step ahead of others, but like most people who are now in middle age you can fall into a rut... and telling what 16-30 year olds might be into when you're 45 is harder than when you're 18-30 yourself.
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Don't think Titanfall is the right example here, considering it sold 10m copies. Last I know the sequel didn't even sell that much.
If he means it was a mistake because he left Xbox players who would be interested in the game in the cold, then I agree with him.
If he thinks this platform decision attributed to the fact the game bombed, then he's flat out wrong. This game would bomb anyhow. Even if he released it on every platform under the sun. Maybe F2P would've worked out. But overall, I don't think many cared for the game and the marketing was horrible.
If he thinks this platform decision attributed to the fact the game bombed, then he's flat out wrong. This game would bomb anyhow. Even if he released it on every platform under the sun. Maybe F2P would've worked out. But overall, I don't think many cared for the game and the marketing was horrible.
If you put a good/great game on the console with the biggest install base, you have a nice chance at some success.
Cliff just put a game on the console with the biggest install base.
Cliff just put a game on the console with the biggest install base.
The problem wasn't the platform, but the market, already saturated by the genre Lawbreakers represented.
But sure, whatever makes you sleep at night Cliff.
But sure, whatever makes you sleep at night Cliff.
Its funny how I read the Tweet so differently from other people.
What I see: It would have done better on xbox than on ps4
What some others see: The only issue with Lawbreakers was that it came to ps4 instead of xbox
What I see: It would have done better on xbox than on ps4
What some others see: The only issue with Lawbreakers was that it came to ps4 instead of xbox
If only the same man hadn't tried to do both things. I've worked for small, personality-led companies - not in games, to be clear - and it's very obvious that Boss Key was Cliff calling all the creative shots despite being way out of touch with consumers. I think Lawbreakers - which I also really liked - was destined to be a minor success at most, given how niche the arena shooter genre has become, but it could still be alive today if they'd let actual marketing and community people figure out how to position and promote it.
I don't think that's why but I'm curious as for his deeper reasons he'll give in his memoir. I would've imagined it was smarter not only because of the larger install base but also because PS hasn't had a signature shooter the same way Xbox has.
Don't get me wrong I love KZ to death, but it's no Halo, let alone a Gears.
Don't get me wrong I love KZ to death, but it's no Halo, let alone a Gears.
LMAO. I can't believe that take. This is too much ahahah. Is it too hard for you to just Google a name and check some stuff before spouting some nonsense like that ?
It's really unfortunate that the game died as soon as it did. I really enjoyed my time with it, it was frenetic and the skill ceiling was pretty crazy. However releasing in an environment that Overwatch already dominated was perhaps it's undoing more than anything else.
Is Cliffy thinking too highly about himself? Did he think XBO owners would have rushed to buy the game just because it has his name on it? I'd bet most current XBO owners don't even know he is.
I think it's a weird thing to assume that gamers were interested in his persona more than the actual game. This almost reads like CliffyB thought his work on Gears gave him a Spielberg'ish reputation, where people would check out the game simply because it was directed by a specific person. But I highly doubt any Xbox fan would've approached Lawbreakers with a 'Dude, shit, bro, this is the new CliffyB game, totally rad!' attitude.
My point is, nobody bought Gears because of CliffyB, they bought Gears because it was a game that looked next-gen at the time and was actually pretty fun to play. CliffyB has never been the celebrity he apparently wishes he'd be. I'm sure the guy is a good designer, but the diva attitude he displays is a bit embarrassing.
Lawbreakers tanked cause it was a good, not a great game in a market that already had a great game doing basically everything better. On top of that, it always seemed to me that the man has absolutely no taste at all and that's all over his games. Can anyone still watch the Gears cinematics without feeling the cringe? Lawbreakers oozed the same vibe. Cliffy seems like he's the personification of this gif, someone who tries super hard to be cool to the point where it makes the hair on your neck stand up.
He should just be himself and keep making good games, cause he obviously knows what he's talking about in terms of design. Just don't try to put your stamp on art, don't try to be a celebrity. Just make cool, well designed stuff that people enjoy. The industry would need more designers like him if he could get rid of the 'I know what 'cool' means' shtick.
Games are the only things that matter - :)
No, it's:
What Cliffy sees: my game would have been big if I hadn't left my personal fan base behind.
What others see: Cliffy's game wasn't good enough to win any new fans.
I don't understand why not cliff starts a new indie studio. He is talented I would say really talented why not try your luck in making the smaller games and don't create PR disaster for yourself by opening mouth. It would be much more productive than whatever he is doing right now
Gearbox' Battleborn?
OT: It kind of breaks my heart to see this. He is obvioulsy a talented designer with plenty of legit, great games below his belt.
LawBreaker's failure clearly hit him hard. Especially considering it was his own indie studio's first project that saw the light of day since "he came out of retirement".
Releasing on XBox would've undoubtedly added more players to the grand total, but it would not have made a difference in the end. Too bad he can't seem to see it this way.
This dude will just never accept that he had a misfire and it was on him. The fact that he STILL talks about Lawbreakers just goes to show how much the failure of the game lives in his head.