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Clearing some misconceptions, or Nintendo should be as nice to their fans as SEGA and Capcom are

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Deleted member 2840

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Making thread for fellow junior member P-Tux7. Here's his post:

Seriously, why does Nintendo have to be such dicks about copyright and fan celebrations of their franchises? I'd like to address a few of the things in the announcement thread of that C64 port getting lawyered:

Q: Nintendo will lose their trademarks if they allow fan games!
A: No they won't! Why hasn't SEGA lost their trademarks for Sonic, then?

Q: SEGA and Capcom are just as bad about fan games, why are you only angry at Nintendo?
A: SEGA and Capcom have only sent cease and desists to one fan game each, SEGA for the Streets of Rage Remake for unknown reasons, and Capcom to Rockmen R because that fan game was getting SOLD. While I am hurt by SEGA's legal response to SoR Remake, they are still so much better than Nintendo. I can name at least 5 free fan projects that Nintendo shut down, and meanwhile that is the only one on SEGA's rap sheet. It's sad, but Nintendo is still much more villainous.

Q: If people would just seek permission instead of making fan games without permission, it wouldn't incur Nintendo's wrath!
A: I don't think this would work, sadly. I thought this was the case until I asked Nintendo if I could make a fan game and they refused me.

So why does Nintendo not want to allow free fan projects like have been allowed for Sonic and Mega Man? Those two brands have never been hurt by free fan games. Name one single bad thing that happened.

I am sick and tired of Nintendo trying to appeal to families, but when I became a teenager and wanted to make my own Mario fan game, I got refused.
 

Deleted member 42484

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Apr 21, 2018
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I kind of get it from a corporate perspective. I wish for things like AM2R though, they just like, somehow paid the guy and releases it officially on their consoles.
 
Replicant

Replicant

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They have every single right to protect their IP. They owe you nothing. They owe fans nothings.
 
Lant_War

Lant_War

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As long as people defend it, nothing will change sadly. Nintendo's still stuck in the 90s in many ways.
 
Dekuman

Dekuman

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Oct 27, 2017
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I don't think enforcing their IP right is equivalent to bring nice to fans in terms of where the OP is coming from.

These are niche issues most of their fans won't benefit from.
 
Imran

Imran

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Oct 24, 2017
6,674
I mean, I agree with you that Nintendo is extremely heavy-handed with C&Ds, especially as they used to not be, but I think the concluding idea of "They can't target families if they don't let me do what I want" is...flawed?
 
Slam Tilt

Slam Tilt

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Jan 16, 2018
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Are we really going to get the hoary old argument that copyright violations are okay as long as no money exchange hands? That's really stale.
 
Kcannon

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Denman said:
I kind of get it from a corporate perspective. I wish for things like AM2R though, they just like, somehow paid the guy and releases it officially on their consoles.
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That's... not how it works.

Companies don't go around approving content from people they have no knowledge or previous relationships with.

Plus, who's gonna pay for the port? Who's gonna do the port? Could AM2R even get ported? Etc...
 
Noog

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It's their property, and while I'd love if they were looser on fan games, they have the right to protect Mario, and since they're largely a family friendly company, they probably don't want to deal with MARIO VS. HITLER or MARIO'S SEX MOTEL fan games.

If you want to make your version of Mario, do it. Make your own character. Make a more "gritty" Mario game or whatever, but don't make it Mario. Look at Axiom Verge, Reverie and Blossom Tales - they take a Nintendo gameplay style and make their own game out of it (to varying degrees of quality. I'm not a fan of Blossom Tales at all). All three of these games have found great success, for a while Blossom Tales was at the top of the eShop's highest selling games.
 
Hinya

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They have the right to do it, and I'm pretty sure they have to act on those projects to protect their IPs. Now it's up to the fans to stop making games using Nintendo's characters, and cry when they get taken down.
 
Boy Wander

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People cry about this type of thing but also have double standards. If I made a low budget Star Wars movie, I'd expect to get taken to court. How is making a video game containing copyrighted characters any different.
 
Seesaw15

Seesaw15

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Oct 27, 2017
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Corporations aren't people. They aren't nice and don't want to be you're friend. You give them money and they provide you with a product. This thread reads like it was written by a jilted lover.
 
NotLiquid

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saci said:
I am sick and tired of Nintendo trying to appeal to families, but when I became a teenager and wanted to make my own Mario fan game, I got refused.
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Then make your Mario fan game. There's an entire website dedicated just for Mario fan games. It hasn't gone anywhere. If Nintendo were so anal about fan games, they'd have shut this site down a decade ago.

The only times Nintendo have C&D'd fan games are when they attempt to be ports, conversions or "remakes" of titles that can be purchased elsewhere - or if the fan game has some kind of price attached to it. That's why the C64 port was taken down. That one Pokémon fan game is perhaps the exception here, but then TPC is more vigilant about their copyrights.

It sucks that Nintendo C&D these projects, but if all you want to do is make a cool Mario game that you can't play elsewhere, then make that game. Fair use has your back.
 
Kthulhu

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It's really frustrating. People wouldn't be making nearly as many fangames and mods and such if the made the content people wanted.

You'd think they'd see the demand and capitalize on it.
 

Deleted member 36622

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There are so many other aspects where Nintendo is treating its fans far better than Capcom and SEGA, these titles feel incredibly clickbaity to me.

Addressing OP's point is because they want to control the IPs they own.

For example, you devalue the importance of that IP by showing how much better it could be with a fanmade game. What was the message when Azure Striker came out and it was far better than what Capcom had for Mega Man at the time? or when the Sonic game directed by fans turned out to be far superior than the actually bigger Sonic game?

Also they don't want to devalue the IPs with a plethora of inferior fanmade Mario games. But at the same they're getting better at this by handling these franchises even to indie developers.

Legally speaking they're 100% right and we're wrong pretending more flexibility on these things.
 
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scitek

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Oct 27, 2017
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Replicant said:
They have every single right to protect their IP. They owe you nothing. They owe fans nothings.
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I don't think anyone is saying they owe fans anything or can't protect their IP, but handling fan games the way they do makes them look like petty assholes stuck in the dark ages. They can shut down passion projects like SMC64 and still build good will with their fan base by simply acknowledging the hard work put into it and explaining why they have to take action against it. You know, like Microsoft did with El Dewrito. Or even better, reach out to the devs and explore the possibility of working with them on something in the future - also like MS and El Dewrito.
 
Htown

Htown

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Oct 25, 2017
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okay let's hold on a second

there's a difference between a separate fan game based on the IP and a straight port of a game that Nintendo currently sells released for free
 

Deleted member 3815

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saci said:
I am sick and tired of Nintendo trying to appeal to families, but when I became a teenager and wanted to make my own Mario fan game, I got refused.
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P-Tux7 So based this thread purely because you got upset that you couldn't make a Mario game when you were a teenager.

I am sorry to break it to you but that is not how real life works, you simply can not take other people's IP produced a piece of work, share it with others and then expect the IP holders go "Yeah that's fine."

IP holders have a right to protect their IP, especially to protect their image branding, prevent the public confusing it for an official products and to send a message that it's they own the IP and not the fans. Plus just because Sega and Capcom does it does not mean that Nintendo has to follow suit. Plenty of other companies do the same thing where they shut down fan projects.

And I say that as someone who wrote Pokémon Fanfic.
 
Why would you do that?

Why would you do that?

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Oct 25, 2017
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Nintendo seems to predominantly go after full remakes of their games. That's why big fan games like Super Mario War still exist. Even most ROM/ISO hacks aren't targeted by them (like the New SMB Wii hacks and Project M, the latter of which was shut down on their own volition).
 
Dinobot

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saci said:
I am sick and tired of Nintendo trying to appeal to families, but when I became a teenager and wanted to make my own Mario fan game, I got refused.
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I don't see how you connected this bridge.

Nintendo owns the Mario IP, they don't want other people using it without permission, it could taint their brand or be below the quality standard associated with Nintendo's products.

Sega doesn't do anything cause they're happy for any brand recognition they can get. Ditto Capcom.
 
udivision

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Eh as a fan game maker I can't say I've minded the C&D's all that much. It'd be cool if they let it slide but oh well.
 
AztecComplex

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AM2R has been the best Metroid game we've seen since Zero Mission, and that includes Samus Returns. Nintendo could've repackaged that game and sell it as is for 3DS or Switch and get some free money. They should've contacted that fan developer to release his game.

Other than that it could've been worse. They could've C&D before the game came out. They could've also destroyed the Mother community instead they chose to turn a blind eye.

It could've been worse.
 
Shoichi

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Jan 10, 2018
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Nintendo has the right as owner of their IP's to do as they wish. They probably have the most valuable IP's in the industry and somewhat the Disney of gaming.

Wasn't the C64 game pretty much a direct port of a Mario game to a non-Nintendo system? I don't think Nintendo likes fan created direct ports/remakes of existing games.
 

ReBirFh

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Dec 8, 2017
449
saci said:
Making thread for fellow junior member P-Tux7. Here's his post:

Seriously, why does Nintendo have to be such dicks about copyright and fan celebrations of their franchises? I'd like to address a few of the things in the announcement thread of that C64 port getting lawyered:

Q: Nintendo will lose their trademarks if they allow fan games!
A: No they won't! Why hasn't SEGA lost their trademarks for Sonic, then?
Click to expand...
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Didn't lose the trademark but lost the credibility. Every decent-ish fan games becomes "random guy/group does what SEGA don't", a lot fans think they know or do better than anyone that works at SEGA and a game made by people hired by SEGA is seem as not a SEGA game but a fan game.

You see this sentiment a lot when someone does "Zelda chracter/location in unreal".

I don't agree with this overprotection everytime, specially in this case that is just a proof of concept/replication of a game that I can't imagine diminishes, put in check or will be compared to anything Nintendo did in the past or will do in the future but I can see how putting limits can preserve their image.

Edit: As I was posting some examples of what I just said appeared.
 

Deleted member 37233

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AztecComplex said:
AM2R has been the best Metroid game we've seen since Zero Mission, and that includes Samus Returns. Nintendo could've repackaged that game and sell it as is for 3DS or Switch and get some free money. They should've contacted that fan developer to release his game.
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Are you serious? Nintendo should release a fan-remake of Metroid 2 while they are working on / releasing their own remake of Metroid 2? That would be pretty stupid from a business perspective.
 
mael

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Don't try to get any kind of compensation or port one of their games and you're pretty much golden.
Heck even if you try a port they won't shut you down until you're done with it (unless you're stupid enough to ask for a compensation upfront).
If anything the shutdown is actually great advertisement for the project.
 
Bjones

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Well maybe if they didn't call it Mario 64?

But also just like the piracy of old games debate .. they still sell Mario bros, it still has a lot of value for them.
 
Nairume

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test_account said:
Wouldnt that be a bigger insentive to take down the games in that case? :P As in "we dont want people to play better games for free than to buy our own games".
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That's kind of the thing. While it's good for fans that Sega is largely hands off with fan projects, it is almost certainly less out of any altruism towards the fan base and more just them not giving a shit because they have been historically awful at managing their own stuff.

It sucks that Nintendo goes after specific projects, especially stuff like the miracle SMB port, but at least it is predictable what ones they are going to go after.
 
mael

mael

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Bjones said:
Well maybe if they didn't call it Mario 64?

But also just like the piracy of old games debate .. they still sell Mario bros, it still has a lot of value for them.
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They even sell finished prototypes like Mother 1 or Star Fox 2.
Nintendo is the one company that understand that there is value in their history but that's somehow bad :/
 
AztecComplex

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Lichtsang said:
Are you serious? Nintendo should release a fan-remake of Metroid 2 while they are working on / releasing their own remake of Metroid 2? That would be pretty stupid from a business perspective.
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I'm pretty sure AM2R was being developed way before SR was even being considered.

I'm sure they could've make it work somehow.
 
cmChimera

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Oct 28, 2017
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Kthulhu said:
It's really frustrating. People wouldn't be making nearly as many fangames and mods and such if the made the content people wanted.

You'd think they'd see the demand and capitalize on it.
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What kind of argument is this? Nintendo is releasing the sequel to the game where they let you make all the Mario levels you want with a toolkit they developed.

AztecComplex said:
I'm pretty sure AM2R was being developed way before SR was even being considered.
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I'm sure you're super knowledgeable about internal Nintendo planning.
 
mael

mael

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AztecComplex said:
I'm pretty sure AM2R was being developed way before SR was even being considered.

I'm sure they could've make it work somehow.
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Why though?
You would prefer that Nintendo basically took over the project from AM2R's developer and release a frankenstein version of the project over having both AM2R and Samus Returns as finished products?
Heck AM2R was never even targeting a Nintendo platform to begin with!
 
AztecComplex

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mael said:
Why though?
You would prefer that Nintendo basically took over the project from AM2R's developer and release a frankenstein version of the project over having both AM2R and Samus Returns as finished products?
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AM2R is better than SR in pretty much every way. Nintendo could've saved themselves a pretty penny if they had contacted the AM2R guy before starting on SR. Or include that version with SR, or just hire the guy, I dunno. Something is better than nothing.
 
Vilix

Vilix

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Sega has not released a new Outrun, or PSO2 in the west. So I don't know how you could say they're being nice.
 
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